Board 8 > Fifa World Cup Qatar 2022 - Topic 4

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yikes. I though Japan would do a little better there, but Croatia are much more used to this pressure. At least their run was memorable.

Japan are somehow worse at pens than England.

England's most recent WC penalties went well. Though they probably remember the Euro final better where it like now was also experience that pulled through.

not as bad as 2018 but still a painful way to go out

good fight boys

RyoCaliente posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_squads#England

This group of players huh, could've beat '10 Germany?

Um, yes? 2010 Germany were young and unproven, and that squad has Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney - proven world-class players in the latter stages of CL. Barry and Carrick were also both terrific players and Lennon was in hiscbest ever form around that time.

The big loss is Ferdinand, who typically performed well with Terry but missed that tournament.

It's some weird-ass revisionist history to say England's players in 2010 were anything less than excellent. Certainly a step below Spain's side at the time, but I wouldn't say anyone else's. Again, English teams got to CL finals almost every year around that time - often knocking out other English teams on the way - and the core of England's starting XI were key in those teams (Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney. Barry was also excellent and would go on to win the title with City two years later, playing almost every league game).

There are weaknesses and Capello did his best to expose those weaknesses, but to say it's anything other than a very high-quality group of players is silly.

Also worth pointing out that England should have never played Germany in that tournament, because they failed to win a group that was just as easy as the one they had this time. Because of terrible management - and that's the thing about this discussion. You can make the argument for Germany, but there is absolutely no debate that England's team there was better than Algeria, USA, Slovenia and Ghana (who would have been the ro16 opponents). The criticism then must fall on Capello, and every piece of information about the awful preparation and execution that has come out since backs that up. He got it very badly, historically wrong.

The first Draw result of the Knockout Stage. Tough way to go for Japan. I was pulling for them to win it!
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/9/8/AAE6mcAAD9Ji.png

Rankings:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/0/AAE6mcAAD9Jk.png

Can we stop pretending that 2010 England deserved to beat 2010 Germany when the former clearly failed the eye test in the group stage? Blown 1-0 lead and ultimately losing the group against USA was embarrassing, a boring 0-0 draw with Algeria that angered fans, and a 1-0 win against Slovennia is not good enough for a team hoping to for a deep run.

They still some big names as mentioned above, but Rooney never managed to recapture his 2004 magic and only managed 1 goal in a world cup, and there were a lot of other players around that simply weren't at that winning team level for a major intentional tournament.

Non of the players wanted to play for Capello. They've all done interviews basically saying he was a crap coach and did everything wrong.

paulg235 posted...

Can we stop pretending that 2010 England deserved to beat 2010 Germany when the former clearly failed the eye test in the group stage? Blown 1-0 lead and ultimately losing the group against USA was embarrassing, a boring 0-0 draw with Algeria that angered fans, and a 1-0 win against Slovennia is not good enough for a team hoping to for a deep run.

Not my point at all - Germany clearly outplayed England (though there is an obvious "what would have happened if the ref had eyes" question). England had the players to do far, far better though and should never have been in a situation where they were playing Germany in the first place, and that is on the management's incompetence more than the players.

If England had won the group they had a pretty good shot at making a deep run.

shane15 posted...

Non of the players wanted to play for Capello. They've all done interviews basically saying he was a crap coach and did everything wrong.

Yeah and the players of that era (2004-2012, let's say) have candidly admitted their own faults when playing for England too - club tribalism being the big one. But when talking about 2010 specifically, there's a level of ire towards Capello in a way that Sven doesn't get, for instance, or even Hodgson. The Athletic did a big thing on it a while back.

It was the perfect storm tbh. Tribalism and not wanting to play for the manager.

The circumstances surrounding his resignation lend into that as well. Compared to the other recent managers who resigned for non-footballing reasons (Hoddle and Allardyce), feeling undermined because the FA stripped John Terry of the captaincy is a pretty minor reason for leaving such a big post. He must have known the players didn't like him or buy into his tactics, but that alone isn't going to be reason enough to quit. Leaving when he did just suited all parties really, since England were going nowhere under him, and 2010 was probably the last tournament where that group of players were at their peak anyway.

LuisSera posted...

The circumstances surrounding his resignation lend into that as well. Compared to the other recent managers who resigned for non-footballing reasons (Hoddle and Allardyce), feeling undermined because the FA stripped John Terry of the captaincy is a pretty minor reason for leaving such a big post. He must have known the players didn't like him or buy into his tactics, but that alone isn't going to be reason enough to quit. Leaving when he did just suited all parties really, since England were going nowhere under him, and 2010 was probably the last tournament where that group of players were at their peak anyway.

You make a good point here. It shows under the Hogdson era the players just weren't good enough. We took Ricky Lambert to the Euros and started him. That says it all really.

Neymar appears to be back which is very good news for Brazil.

Even if they haven't won since 2002, I still have it ingrained in my memory from the 94-98-02 stretch that Brazil = Link in the Gamefaqs Contests and I must root against them at every opportunity

And considering their smooth(er) sailing potential to the semifinals, I fear this might be when they end their drought...

(that being said, there has been a different winner in each of the past 5 cups so I would like that trend to continue - England would be but the Netherlands/Argentina winner, or Portugal would also be nifty)

Brazil are too cocky. Wtf was that extra long dancing celebration then.

This could get ugly

Italy's run in 1994 and Baggio's magnificent play (inexorably capped with his infamous PK miss) is one of my earliest and strongest sports memories.

Pretty sure I'll always root against Brazil after that.

Shame to be in an entire stadium of people blithely rooting for that git like he isn't the dictionary definition of a dickhead, but there you go

Dear Holland please beat Argentina and Brazil.

I'd like the final to not just be pure Europe I think.

South American teams always think they have the divine right to be in the final or win it.

Someone needs to 7-1 Brazil..... again.

European teams are arrogant in different yet similar kinds of ways. You can find such people anywhere.

Pokewars posted...

Someone needs to 7-1 Brazil..... again.

So need to get Neymar injured and Thiago Silva suspended. Think those are the only two left from that and neither played lol

Edit: Oh wait, Dani Alves was also in both squads but didn't play at all in that semifinal either, for some reason.

Brazil would be fine without Neymar, just something of a vanilla winner. Don't really want him winning anything though. He made the choice to torpedo himself out of any "best player" discussions when he joined an irrelevant club, and he shouldn't be rewarded for that. Also he's just so obviously a weird prick. I don't mind the rest of them though so I could live with it if they won. It's not like Portugal, where the toxicity is baked-in so even post-Ronaldo they will still suck.

If either of the South Americans make the final we need Spain or France in the final with them. If England get there we'll choke.

Neymar is certainly looking fantastic so far though. No less.

XIII_Rocks posted...

He made the choice to torpedo himself out of any "best player" discussions when he joined an irrelevant club

That doesn't seem to stop Mbappe though. Or Messi for that matter.

Well jesus Christ

That's a Brazil worth paying to see

This celebrating is embarrassing now.

Guess Brazil took their belt off this half and it found Korean Backside!

ctesjbuvf posted...

Neymar is certainly looking fantastic so far though. No less.

That doesn't seem to stop Mbappe though. Or Messi for that matter.

Messi already did everything, and Mbappe is only 23. Neymar had one CL at Barcelona, then left to waste his prime years at PSG. Given their lack of domestic competition the only way Neymar could elevate himself into that bracket is winning loads of CLs, which he has thus far spectacularly failed to do.

If Mbappe wastes his entire career there too then sure I'd add him to that.

TFW youve painted your face but your team is losing 4-0 after 36 minutes.

XIII_Rocks posted...

Messi already did everything, and Mbappe is only 23. Neymar had one CL at Barcelona, then left to waste his prime years at PSG. Given their lack of domestic competition the only way Neymar could elevate himself into that bracket is winning loads of CLs, which he has thus far spectacularly failed to do.

If Mbappe wastes his entire career there too then sure I'd add him to that.

That's a fair verdict. Neymar isn't the most likable but I think he should have been more in that debate than he was (happened to a lot in the Messi/Ronaldo prime years to be fair). The bigger problem at PSG for him, imo, has been injuries. So far he has no injuries this season at PSG and has more G+A than the other two.

Seanchan posted...

TFW youve painted your face but your team is losing 4-0 after 36 minutes.

TFW they wash it off at halftime, lol :(

Have the team paid any tributes to Pel so far? The fans did

All criticism of Brazil aside, this has probably been the most devastating performance I've ever seen live.

European teams have won the last 4 world cups and have 4x the number of remaining teams as South America currently. I feel like Brazil is very far from Link.

Neymar has by all accounts been PSG's best player this year, which is why there was so much Mbappe drama before the World Cup.
That club's a circus, but the trio has at least performed when on the pitch at this World Cup.

Which I guess is kinda good for Qatar given that they're all part of PSG.

Everything's broken right for Qatar this World Cup so far, seems like the sportswashing is gonna work because for most we're just going to remember this being a fantastic World Cup with loads of memorable upsets, but the big teams in the quarters.

If Brazil is Link, then I guess Argentina is Mario and England is Crono lol. Germany and Italy can be Cloud and Sephiroth. France is Snake I suppose.

Suprised that wasn't 5-0

WIth all the underdogs falling the only shock left is England winning it.

We still have Morocco for the countries outside of the big two continents.

If Spain and Portugal win, then it really is just the modern high level performers.

Added bonus that one of the major nations knocked out was the one Qatar would have most wanted to see out of the tournament.

MartinFF7 posted...

TFW they wash it off at halftime, lol :(

I was also thinking about that recent commercial with the guy sitting in the emergency room. I used the wrong kind of paint

voltch posted...

Neymar has by all accounts been PSG's best player this year, which is why there was so much Mbappe drama before the World Cup.
That club's a circus, but the trio has at least performed when on the pitch at this World Cup.

Which I guess is kinda good for Qatar given that they're all part of PSG.

Everything's broken right for Qatar this World Cup so far, seems like the sportswashing is gonna work because for most we're just going to remember this being a fantastic World Cup with loads of memorable upsets, but the big teams in the quarters.

Worst part about that is seeing people praising the organisation of it like that was the problem. Of course the organisation was good when there's infinite money, no unions, a risible minimum wage, few health and safety laws and the government centralising everything. You can just hire every fucking body and overstaff every event and there's no competing interests to compromise with.

That doesn't make awarding them the tournament a good idea, and there's already been a few worrying attempts to reframe the tournament as "good" because the transport links were relatively efficient. That was never the problem.

red_sox_777 posted...

European teams have won the last 4 world cups and have 4x the number of remaining teams as South America currently. I feel like Brazil is very far from Link.

Brazil is the Cloud of world cups.

ctesjbuvf posted...

If Brazil is Link, then I guess Argentina is Mario and England is Crono lol. Germany and Italy can be Cloud and Sephiroth. France is Snake I suppose.

Brazil 5
Germany 4
Italy 4
Argentina 2
France 2
Uruguay 2
England 1

Link 7
Cloud 1
L-Block 1
Draven 1

Well......