Board 8 > YGO Master Duel Mafia Topic 7 - Zero Days since the last Microtransaction

(+) Yeah! (+)

Actually, being right about things DID matter.

Scum was afraid of me because I was closely on the mark. So they shot me instead of the Cop, while Doctor was dead.

If Scum wasn't afraid of me, then they shoot Hb N2, and he doesn't get off TWO Scum scans.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Actually, being right about things DID matter.

Scum was afraid of me because I was closely on the mark. So they shot me instead of the Cop, while Doctor was dead.

If Scum wasn't afraid of me, then they shoot Hb N2, and he doesn't get off TWO Scum scans.

If you want to spin it that way I was more useful than you because they left hb alive cause they thought they could use me as a wrecking ball to lynch him not because they thought you were more dangerous than a cop

*sigh* the game is over, guys.

I just want Han to bark like a dog for me then we can move on.

Scum fear me.
Lopen wants me. o'_'o

Anyway hb was mvp of the game, Peaf #2

I'm #3 imo. But I did have a good game and managed to redeem the early game. I won't be besmirched and told I didn't.

You can redeem yourself (which I do think you did) without dragging others down tho

Kirby321 posted...

I totally disagree with this. My scummates put in a lot of effort into our strategies at nighttime and our gameplans for the day, even Poppy.

Sure, we weren't active and vocal in the days, but that's strategic and not done out of laziness.

The strategy of being lazy doesn't make it not lazy.

Oh okay we had a topic of bickering. Let's go!

So.

Han day 2 I said from dead town chat might have been the BEST I have ever seen Han play. That's how dominant he was being day 2 with his reads.

The ctes lynch was information seeking at best.

Lopen, you thought Sultan would be scum by claiming Vanilla when Sultan was obviously Town Vanilla from within the first 50 posts of the game. Something me and Han quickly picked up on.

Lopen you did a good job on Kirby.

Kirby, that's nonsense. Your team was lazy af. I don't care if you posted memoirs in your scum chat and ran simulations til the end of time. The fact is in the game, you were lazy. If that's the strategy you guys came up with, that's great. But a strategy to be lazy makes yinz lazy.

Your strategy Kirby was sucking up. Your play was off.

Poppys strategy was initially faking what he said he would do as town and then falling by the wayside. He has already admitted his activity wasn't there. The time he did have was to make excuses why he couldn't do more, why he couldn't read, or even taking time to give a definition of a word, instead of using those moments doing anything in game.

Chang was absolutely so absent. His entire play basically reverted to doing very little while trying a hero ball claim. Which I agreed is a good claim. It was just enough nonsensical to seem real, parts verifiable, and risky enough that people would question why he would fake it.

So, yes, in the end the game was fitting. A scum teams strategy to be lazy ended with them trying to hammer a lynch instead of taking the sure win eventually and without them taking the time to even verify votals before doing so.

Perfect ending. 10/10. Lopen shouldn't feel bad. Scum did it to themselves. Wasn't shady. Was just a basic level play. (And honestly, possibly not even an intentional trick).

I will admit that at times I felt like scum was blatantly letting town do all the arguing. I wouldnt call it lazy if its deliberate, but it is a risky strategy.

This Scumteam was not even close to how lazy the previous Scumteam was.

Corrik7 posted...

And honestly, possibly not even an intentional trick

Was absolutely intentional. I was taunting Kirby to rile him up and dramatically taking my time so scum would be there to hammer if they existed (and to build tension for Sultan to unvote if town). Again would have had it as BCT > Chang > Abacus at the time and was surprised it was Chang (or any of them) but I wasn't gonna risk the game on that either.

Like I said lots of pieces to what I was doing.

Anyway if that's the best Han's played he really is overhyped that's all I gotta say. Not a good game from him. You can say he took command but I didn't see it and his legacy was pushing two town lynches. You can have all the great reads in the world but if you don't lynch any nor build the case on any it's valueless.

Also I will say that part of mafia is just pressure

Like you can laugh that I suspected BCT the day before last I but I actually suspected him less than I let on. Building the massive case was to see how BCT reacted and town reacted. Kirby being convinced, by me, that BCT was scum that's how Kirby was caught

It did have value though. Scum already said as much.

I can't even be blamed for more than 49% of SBell's lynch anyway.

But that's okay. Lopen, you did your damnedest to preliminarily defend your poor reads by discounting Town that were killed for actually being able to make good reads. It failed.

You put in the legwork to make up for your lack of experience in Mafia by driving discussion after Hb mortally saved Town. You succeeded there.

The end of this discussion shouldn't be an attempt to dunk on me. It should be a learning process by which you realize, two games in a row, that your logic systems apply very poorly to this game, especially in the early game, and that you should be the spearhead I help guide. Not the shield I am constantly fighting against while also being told by that same shield to hunt Scum.

If you let me play the game how I have expressed wanting to play and worked with me instead of against me, we'd have been dead N1.

And if you realize your town read on Kirby is bad we have scum dead day 1 too

Works both ways homie

Scum can claim it mattered but ultimately it didn't. Because hb didn't make those scans because of any case you made.

Hb would have been dead N2.

And my Townlean on Kirby was wrong, yes. But after Ctes died, Kirby was in the last POE spot anyway.

And Chang is absolutely who I gun for if you don't push at me that hard D1.

This is a team game, Lopen.

No. Hb was left alive because scum thought stupid Lopen would get him mislynched. Not because of you.

Also do realize I didn't dunk on you until you made it painfully obvious that you really wanted town to lose so you could say how bad I am at mafia lmao

Lopen posted...

No. Hb was left alive because scum thought stupid Lopen would get him mislynched. Not because of you.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/8/7/AAOJ0pAADzxX.png
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/8/8/AAOJ0pAADzxY.png
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/8/9/AAOJ0pAADzxZ.png

You were also part of the consideration, Lopen. Because, you know, team game.

And you didn't dunk on me, Lopen. Anything you've said that is true, I've already agreed with.

Listen man I'm not saying you weren't killed for a reason. My point is you'd be considered to be killed regardless of if your reads were 4/4 or 2/4. You posted it yourself--- you and Peaf were in consideration "for being smart." Smart players correct their reads over time if wrong so are considered at all points.

But that your actual play did little to contribute to the game. The reason hb isn't considered is they think they can lock him down with roleblocker and they only need one mislynch to win and think they can make him look bad when he repeatedly claims roleblocked.

If anything your reads being right had them nearly consider killing Peaf instead so as to not validate your reads. That's literally in the transcript you posted. Because it's not really about the reads at all. They speculated you held back on Kirby suspicion-- which maybe you did and look at how that worked out to help town solve

And for a guy lecturing about teamwork count the amount of bending I did to hear you out vs the amount of bending you did to hear me out in the game. I'm not the one with the teamwork problem here. I will absolutely go towards other leads if people push them and make any sort of sense because pressure generates content.

I spent most of my time trying to work with you lol.

Two games in a row you've shown an inability to figure me out and put any trust in me at all.

I'm sure next game when we're both Town, you'll reconsider.

In for Codenames

Actually I worked with you fine in this game. You are the one who got tilted. I went for pressure on you and only started that when you town cleared scum. That's all. Pressure is healthy.

I'm sorry you OMGUS when I suspect you and refuse to reciprocate trying to work with me. Suspicion does not mean I am absolutely going to lynch you. I had you as scum early day 2 but absolutely did not push to lynch you at any point

Because there is a lot more to the game than reads. Someday you'll get good enough at the game to realize that even if you can guess the scumteam in dead town chat you can have had a bad game in spite of that.

As far as it stands, I've proven my abilities enough times over these years. There's a history of empirical evidence to back that up. All you're doing is trying to lecture someone who learned all of these facts about Mafia years before you ever did. As I said in DVC - you played this game a lot like 2012 Han.

You're good at arguing, Lopen. But you're pretty bad at being right. So I'm going to do you the service of saying bye. You have better things to do with your time than try to convince someone of something false. Long as evidence is on my side, you've got nothing to gain here.

This game was a huge learning experience for me. I learned some things going forward:

• Check who all was in contention for the D1 lynch, to see who was spared if the lynch flips town. It didn't quite occur to me that at least one of those in the running had to be scum.
• Look back at what Han said if he was night killed as town. He was probably killed since he was right.
• ISO suspicious people earlier, if time allows.
• Scum keeps me alive for a reason; this reason may not be "Sultan is scum and will push for my mislynch."
• Keep voting for anyone who says I need to be more experienced than I am. Excuse me, but that's just as "OMGUS" as anything I'm doing.

I was too busy trying to figure this "being town" thing out to realize any of this.

BCT, fighting off someone accusing you of being Scum with prejudice is difficult. You held together remarkably well for being put in that position.

Evidence is on my side too. I've done well in mafia on b8. It's just that you've got people like you and red who spread the idea that I'm not good at the game and perception becomes reality at some level.

I'm just saying even good players can have bad games and you were the one who put it so far behind early. I'm not saying you're bad at the game, just that you're in no position to speak about town being bad this game..

I didn't do that. All I did was offer a counter to your assertion that being dead is why anybody was convinced Chang was Scum, and that your argument against whatever 'style of play' made me sure of it was bad logic.

You may not have intended it, but you gave the impression that you were trying to defend your inability to see Chang as Scum by being reductive of people who did. Just like you gave the impression that you were trying to defend your play in the first three days by preliminarily attacking DVC for being conceited as if they would not be in any better a position as you were. Perhaps you didn't intend to do either of those things, but that is the impression you gave.

I'm saying detecting Chang as scum days 1-2 and detecting Chang as scum post claim (without a cheatsheet in front of you) are completely different things and you are literally doing exactly what you always accuse me of in games where I spectate (games where I don't have a cheatsheet so worse really)

Like pretty much everyone targeted him with the watch trap

It's because the claim was very good if you don't have a guide telling you it's fake, not because everyone alive is bad at the game.

And that's why dead town chat generally comes off as jerks btw.

Because anyone can be right about something at point of death. But being able to keep being sure you're right in the face of new events like a cop scan innocent or an amazing fake claim or even just scum picking up their game and seeming more townish and/or town slacking and coming off more scummish.

Very few can do that. But people in dead town chat will delude themselves into thinking every right read they had will stick through the whole game if they were still alive. This is made worse still because the "better" players typically get shot earlier and because people in dead town chat don't generally follow the game all that well so they're not really absorbing what's happening that well.

You push two town lynches when alive and don't leave a very clear and convincing road map to the rest of the scum when you die, you had a bad game. Doesn't matter how right you are on death cause no guarantee you convert any of those if you don't get your reads immediately verified at point of your death.

I may have been a part of that aspect of town dead chat too much, so I am sorry for that.
But I could understand their frustration.
(Not that I was not also sympathetic to scums chatter)

Everyone targeting Chang with Ghost Belle was humorous at least.

Lopen posted...

It's because the claim was very good if you don't have a guide telling you it's fake, not because everyone alive is bad at the game.

You're making the fallacy of assuming that dead players can't perform better than you.

Anyway, Lopen, you're cute and all, but you keep trying to push 'u had a bad game' as if it's the crux of this argument. It's not. At all. That's you changing the subject because you want to try to win an argument that is unwinnable. You're trying to create an argument and push something to try to hit my ego because you want to upset me. It's a little weird, man.

My logic on Chang, BCT, Sultan, You, Hb (and Abacus), Peaf, Poppy, Ben was all correct. I even had correct logic on SBell but stupidly lynched him because I let my temper win over my rationality.

And that's okay. It's a game.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

BCT, fighting off someone accusing you of being Scum with prejudice is difficult. You held together remarkably well for being put in that position.

Thanks. I'm pretty impressed I didn't go off on Sultan more crazily, but I instead took time to discredit him. He and I hashed things out and we're good now.

But yeah, I don't get why he kept going after me after it was established that I was town. His insistence was the largest contributing factor to identifying his anti-town behavior, which is why I presumed he was scum. That and him justifying it with me "hiding" when I was just busy, so I in turn said "Well by that logic, you must be scum." I need to continue broadening my thinking here. Experience does that. It's the first 2-3 games as town that are the roughest, yes?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

My logic on Chang, BCT, Sultan, You, Hb (and Abacus), Peaf, Poppy, Ben was all correct

My point is it's harder to keep it correct if you're in the game solving and don't have alignments in front of you.

Like we literally have multiple examples of you in game having the correct read and losing it on less.

Dead town chat is always the smartest about what they came into knowing and would never change any of their reads they got right.

But if you were that good you'd actually get a correct lynch in two tries. Simple as. I could just as easily see you having a 4 scum list and putting 3 scum 1 town and mislynching again due to continuing the passive play you'd displayed in game.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I even had correct logic on SBell but stupidly lynched him because I let my temper win over my rationality.

jerk.

Lopen, I have played many games of Mafia. I have yelled at myself 100 times for letting go of gutreads when they're usually correct. You're not saying anything clever.

If you wanted to come out on top of things saying the right thing here, you would say "Han, you have good reads and need to do a better job sticking to those guns." Not this weird mishmash of trying to frame me as a shit tier player when I'm just sticking to my guns in defending myself. A thing which, you might recall, you suggested I do in the game!

I flipped on Kirby D1, yes. I also said on D2 that Ctes being Town is predicated on Kirby being Scum. A neutral observer would call that out as a good correction and good play.

Anyway, I'm bored of this. I know everyone else is too. So I'm cutting you off here.

See ya on the next D1.

Obellisk posted...

jerk.

Sorry! Like I said, my temper gets in the way. It's by far my biggest weakness as a player

If it helps at all, I don't blame you for not claiming. It's the wrong play, but I did the same exact thing like 4 games ago. Getting pushed at end of day for bad reasons when you're doctor sucks.

lynched or nightkilled... I suppose I would have prevented maybe corriks night 1 death? maybe...

I haven't been specialed in years... it's all good

Ctes dies in that lynch, unless you claim WAY earlier which could have paved the way for Chang (but probably not).

You die N1. Scum maybe lets me live still, which yes, lets Corrik live unto D2.

But then the framing of D2 changes because we can see the counter-push onto you and Ctes clearly, and then Chang stands a very good chance of being the lynch day 2.

This is all speculative, of course. Maybe we just mislynch Corrik D2 instead

Good player in general

Shit tier this game

Is what I'm saying

Lopen posted...

Good player in general

Shit tier this game

Is what I'm saying

Oo that's me that's me

Did you just call me a jerk?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Your weakness is getting distracted too easily when the simpler answer is usually true for you. You peg people instantly and then go chasing after windmills for no reason. Like, just kill the scum that you have rattled one at a time instead of trying to find the entire team all at once.

Do you have examples of me doing that?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Do you have examples of me doing that?

See documentation: Don Quixote.

Han might have mislynched me but he also basically knew what the scum team was if I flipped town which was part of the reason I was lynched which is also why he was killed with a cop claim. To say he had a bad game is just bs.

Also I know it's easy to be informed and say what people should do, I've seen much worse examples of that, but we were two people in there that correctly named most scum from knowing SBell and I were town and had already said it before we died, yet no one listened day 3. Chang's claim was good, but he was also not being considered at all before it. I'd much rather give credit to Chang for playing a lot better post day 1 than I will discredit Han.

Corrik7 posted...

See documentation: Don Quixote.

Incoming Man of La Mancha Mafia