Board 8 > Europe bans the lightning port.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Apple surely seething that they have to get rid of their proprietary bullshit.

https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577257355577901058?t=9oSp6hnNjLJmmwgNbOzGuw&s=19

I think it's more likely they go wireless only that actually adding USB-C.

Good fuck non-standardized bullshit like chargers and the like.

good riddance

"Coincidentally," Apple is also raising their share of all app store purchases in Europe 15-20% today.

Saw this topic title and thought FF13. I need sleep.

on the one hand, ewww bans

on the other hand, lol apple

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Apple surely seething that they have to get rid of their proprietary bullshit.

This is precisely why it's being banned. Apple gets to shortchange people that way, and this will force them to change.

I think it's more likely they go wireless only that actually adding USB-C.

And yet another reason the iPhone will be inferior to Android. Like... why go wireless only? That means charging will take twice as long and can't be safely done in a car. Huge inconvenience for many people, who will probably still buy an iPhone anyway because APPLE APPLE APPLE.

Surprised it's taken this long. They seem to have been talking about this for absolutely years.

It's ridiculous that companies aren't made to standardize things like this.

I've held a grudge against Apple ever since my iPhone died at Disneyland while I was separated from my family and my charger had broken somehow, and they didn't have any Lightning chargers in the park so I had to leave and buy one for like $30 (they had micro-USBs for like $10 I think). I managed to lose my ticket in the process so I couldn't get back in and had to sit outside and wait for my family to finish having fun (it was only like an hour but still) and missed the fireworks show. Also this all happened on my birthday

Worst. Birthday. Ever.

Apple loses? Wow!

MZero posted...

Worst. Birthday. Ever.

:teedus:

I came to make a joke about a Lightning Returns port, but I was beaten to it!

MZero posted...

Worst. Birthday. Ever.

Way to work that into the topic.

plasmabeam posted...

Saw this topic title and thought FF13. I need sleep.

You are not alone.

Lightning port sounds cool. Like instead of ships docking and delivering goods, it's LIGHTNING.

Shattered posted...

It's ridiculous that companies aren't made to standardize things like this.

If they were then we would probably be stuck on something older than USB-C

Good because fuck apple for doing this shit for years

MarkS2222222222 posted...

If they were then we would probably be stuck on something older than USB-C

they can and will update the standard as needed. granted there are obvious issues with the strategy, but it isn't like there's blinding innovation in this market that would be suppressed

inb4 there'll be a usb-c port for charging and also a lightning port for data

frankftw posted...

inb4 there'll be a usb-c port for charging and also a lightning port for data

But still no headphone jack, of course.

That's no an iPhone exclusive issue. My Oneplus has no headphone jack either. I have a high end usbc to aux as well and it sucks.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

That's no an iPhone exclusive issue. My Oneplus has no headphone jack either. I have a high end usbc to aux as well and it sucks.

This is just a phone issue at this point.

No headphone and many dont allow storage expansion now.

NFUN posted...

but it isn't like there's blinding innovation in this market that would be suppressed

There's a new cable every 3-5 years that can support higher bandwidth, power supply, features, etc. And that's totally ignoring Apple's cables, which do tend to be ahead of that curve and definitely influenced USB. Even if this wasn't such an immediately obvious place of high-frequency innovation, it would still be nonsensical to freeze it at the 2022 status quo.

I personally hate Apple's proprietary cables for everything, which is a reason why I don't buy them.

My laptop has a USB-C port. I had to buy something to "convert" it into something actually useful.

This just sounds like a worse version of that.

Yeah it seems pretty intuitive that bans like this will at least slow down cable improvements (particularly if other large markets like the US follow suit).

foolm0r0n posted...

There's a new cable every 3-5 years that can support higher bandwidth, power supply, features, etc. And that's totally ignoring Apple's cables, which do tend to be ahead of that curve and definitely influenced USB. Even if this wasn't such an immediately obvious place of high-frequency innovation, it would still be nonsensical to freeze it at the 2022 status quo.

But it's not getting frozen at the 2022 status quo. A regulatory update every 4-5 years is exactly the period I'd imagine for this kind of thing. If there was something new every year or two then yeah the bureaucracy is gonna be problematic but this case seems perfectly fine

Crescent-Moon posted...

My laptop has a USB-C port. I had to buy something to "convert" it into something actually useful.

This just sounds like a worse version of that.

Wait, you couldn't charge your laptop with the built in port? That's terrible. Must be a real piece of shit.

Crescent-Moon posted...

My laptop has a USB-C port. I had to buy something to "convert" it into something actually useful.

A modern USB-C port can do literally any and all the things any other port can do, lol.

Crescent-Moon posted...

My laptop has a USB-C port. I had to buy something to "convert" it into something actually useful.

This just sounds like a worse version of that.

What model of laptop do you have?

NFUN posted...

But it's not getting frozen at the 2022 status quo. A regulatory update every 4-5 years is exactly the period I'd imagine for this kind of thing. If there was something new every year or two then yeah the bureaucracy is gonna be problematic but this case seems perfectly fine

what incentive do companies have to create new cables when there is no guarantee that it will be approved by government bureaucrats?

redrocket posted...

what incentive do companies have to create new cables when there is no guarantee that it will be approved by government bureaucrats?

a) what incentive do companies have to create anything when there is no guarantee that it will be approved by consumers? "risk" is the term of choice for a reason

b) what incentive do they have regardless? USB is a non-proprietary format. as far as I'm aware, nobody made any money off of switches between standards besides the manufacturing companies that had nothing to do with its development. Even for proprietary formats the connection between innovation and profiteering seems incredibly tenuous. Almost nobody is buying one phone over another because of the cable, and nobody is buying a camera or anything like that because of the cable. Companies are rewarded for having their own cable that they can sell manufacturing rights to for people to buy when theirs breaks, not for making cables that are actually, like, good, or at least better than necessary

the Globalist International Universal Serial Bus Consortium or the reanimated corpses of the Firewire people or whoever else will keep tinkering, and in five years when they've got something new and spicy they'll get a bunch of experts to whine at the regulatory board to update the standard and the cycle will begin anew

NFUN posted...

But it's not getting frozen at the 2022 status quo. A regulatory update every 4-5 years is exactly the period I'd imagine for this kind of thing. If there was something new every year or two then yeah the bureaucracy is gonna be problematic but this case seems perfectly fine

This means it will lag 4-5 years, which I suppose would be quite a lot better than most regulatory updates. But also why would the government update it as fast as every 4-5 years? Is there a revision frequency built into the law? That would be nice, but that's not how regulations work. Instead you need to hire a bunch of lobbyists to convince the agency to do it, and the rate at which that is done is based on how expensive it is to re-open that can of legal worms. Technological advancement has nothing to do with the frequency.

Also, there are definitely new standards coming out every year from lots of manufacturers. It's just that USB's big evolution is every 5ish years. All the smaller projects would have no chance to succeed, it would just be USB remaining.

Of course, the innovation and competition will still happen fine outside of Europe, especially in the US and China, so this doesn't really change much. Europe will just siphon the new tech from the rest of the world with a 4-5 year lag (optimistically). Europeans are quite alright with that strategy from what I can tell.

foolm0r0n posted...

This means it will lag 4-5 years, which I suppose would be quite a lot better than most regulatory updates.

I meant that you'd expect the board to get off its ass and actually think about changing things after that timeframe from the last update. the actual lag from some form of industry consensus maturing to the actual change I'd expect to be just one or two. I chose that period out of my own ass because that's how I personally figure the balance of laziness vs desire to do their jobs would pan out

NFUN posted...

what incentive do they have regardless?

Clearly a lot that you're missing, since it happens a lot

foolm0r0n posted...
NFUN posted...

a) what incentive do companies have to create anything when there is no guarantee that it will be approved by consumers? "risk" is the term of choice for a reason

Consumer adoption is an omnipresent risk. Its just part of the game. But when you compound that with a blanket government ban? That requires positive action from a bureaucratic board to change? That increases the risk exponentially. Thats easily enough to take a project from something investors are willing to take a risk on to a complete non-starter.

redrocket posted...

Consumer adoption is an omnipresent risk. Its just part of the game. But when you compound that with a blanket government ban? That requires positive action from a bureaucratic board to change? That increases the risk exponentially. Thats easily enough to take a project from something investors are willing to take a risk on to a complete non-starter.

99% of proprietary bullshit should be a non-starter so this sounds great lol

I'm all aboard the "fuck Apple", but this feels like a dumb ban, and I don't like countries controlling arbitrary shit. Consumers should be saying "fuck Apple" with their money, so I have no sympathy for someone who actually buys Apple products in the first place.

Imagine a world where power outlets aren't standardized and every product has its own unique plugin that needs an adapter.

Yeah standardization is seen around the world and is necessary for it to function at least somewhat efficiently.

One issue is I believe the USB-C is still under patent which gives the owner a lot of power if governments force that to be the standard. Any type of standardized object should have free market access for all companies to manufacture.

Kenri posted...

99% of proprietary bullshit should be a non-starter so this sounds great lol

No it doesn't because the 1% that you like is definitely not the 1% Angela Merkel or whatever likes

NFUN posted...

I meant that you'd expect the board to get off its ass and actually think about changing things after that timeframe from the last update

I just saw this law starts the USB C enforcements in 2024 and 2026 for laptops. So yeah over a 5 year lag.

foolm0r0n posted...

I just saw this law starts the USB C enforcements in 2024 and 2026 for laptops. So yeah over a 5 year lag.

USB-C/Thunderbolt is the best cable in regular use right now by a long shot, and they get better all the time.

They used to get better all the time, yeah

Also thunderbolt is not USB C

We're talking about a form factor standard ruling, and while the specs of Thunderbolt are different from USB-C (as an aside, the specifics on what constitutes USB 3.1, 3.2, and USB-C etc are literally changing all the time, making for a not very intuitive customer experience), the physical connectors are completely compatible.

Is the EU ruling that the ports MUST be USB-C without Thunderbolt? I doubt it.

Here's a link to the provision itself: https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46755

The spec is in the annex document. The focus is on the physical interface and power delivery. I would think in the spirit of the provision to reduce e-waste, updating the cited standards or proving compliance with hardware of a different standard would be contingent on demonstrating those 2 aspects match the baseline standards.

They must be compatible with USB C, which the latest thunderbolt is

Ok so yeah:

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

USB-C/Thunderbolt is the best cable in regular use right now by a long shot, and they get better all the time.

When the topic title is literally EU bans the lightning port, I think Thunderbolt is worth mentioning because its almost certainly what Apple will switch to.

I wouldn't bet on that. Wireless-only like others said is pretty likely too. They don't like the thickness of thunderbolt for iphone. The next USB will likely be smaller to fix that.

Leafeon13N posted...

This is just a phone issue at this point.

No headphone and many dont allow storage expansion now.

I bought an expensive gaming phone, and I don't even play mobile games!

It had a headphone jack >_>

foolm0r0n posted...

No it doesn't because the 1% that you like is definitely not the 1% Angela Merkel or whatever likes

Sure but that's 98% we still agree on, as opposed to 1% for the free market

MZero posted...

I've held a grudge against Apple ever since my iPhone died at Disneyland

red?