Current Events > Got a job offer. Conflicted

(+) Yeah! (+)

Some might remember my last topic. Well. I didnt get the job I interviewed for (which would have been a promotion in a sense). But they came back and essentially made me a lateral offer for the same thing I do now. But less money.

Pros:

• Its a much smaller company and team (series B startup). So they are saying that they can better train me to help me learn more leadership skills. Which I am not getting at my current company.
• Smaller companies mean fast track opportunity wise
• I like their product much better. I think they have a good future. Others in the industry have similar feelings that they will be big some day. They have big money backing them
• My current company scaled too much during Covid and I fear layoffs are coming. Our bonuses have already been cut and other measures have been taken to reduce certain benefits and slow down hiring. From what I hear from an internal leadership source, revenue from our product is going down to below pre-Covid levels. The writing is on the wall
• The culture seems more fun and laid back.

Cons

• Starting over once again. I am on track for promo here. My company claims its just timing and when they need another lead it will be me. But how long should I wait around? Ive been here one year now. They say its the market slow down so they dont foresee growth anytime soon
• Less money as mentioned. 25k less to be exact. But since our bonuses are trending down who knows if this will be that big of a gap
• The benefits arent as good. My family is on my current plan and its amazing
• Risk the startup doesnt take off and I am out of a job. I do get equity though so if it is successful I can get big bux

Thoughts?

Cleo_II posted...

Less money as mentioned. 25k less to be exact

That's a no for me.

Cleo_II posted...

Less money as mentioned. 25k less to be exact. But since our bonuses are trending down who knows if this will be that big of a gap

Ouch. That's a huge pay cut that's hard to justify in any situation, are they not willing to negotiate?

Cleo_II posted...

Less money as mentioned. 25k less to be exact. But since our bonuses are trending down who knows if this will be that big of a gap

Yoooooooo I would resign immediately if my boss told me I had to take a 25k pay cut there's no fucking way I would accept this.

Cleo_II posted...

I do get equity though so if it is successful I can get big bux

Any info on what the vesting timeline is for the stock options?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Total comp. The base would be higher than my current one. Theyre also offering about 100k worth of equity but thats not real money to me until an exit occurs. If it ever does.

emblem-man posted...

Any info on what the vesting timeline is for the stock options?

Monthly with a one year cliff, over 4 years. So need to be there one year at least and then it vests monthly which is pretty nice

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Its not that I hate it so much as Im stuck and stagnating. Im not learning new skills. Im not growing career wise. I turned down my promotion at my other company to be here on the promise that they were growing and would help get where I want to be professionally. But now theyre telling me they dont know when that will be. My current boss is also junior. Im more experienced than her so I dont feel like I have good mentorship. She also is a bit of a micro manager and has a hard time letting go of things. They just want me to keep performing without developing me. Maybe I should be ok with that given the income and benefits. But I dont feel fulfilled. Im conflicted because I wonder if Id be selfish to take the other job when that money benefits my family.

If I had young kids I would stick with the job that had better pay and benefits. Sounds you change jobs relatively often and won't have an issue finding another opportunity if you get laid off.

Cleo_II posted...

Less money as mentioned. 25k less to be exact. But since our bonuses are trending down who knows if this will be that big of a gap

That's a HUGE difference.

I'd hold out for a bit at your current job.

BuzzKilljoy posted...

If I had young kids I would stick with the job that had better pay and benefits. Sounds you change jobs relatively often and won't have an issue finding another opportunity if you get laid off.

I wont. Even with recruiting getting laid off now at many companies. Im not worried about job security. I have a good network if I ever needed it. But what I dont want is to be stuck doing the same thing forever. I want to get into management. I dont want to recruit forever. Ive made it clear when I joined my current company. Instead they have forced me to keep doing the same thing because Im a top performer. When I ask about additional projects, they lie and say there arent any and I should focus on filling the roles I have. I found out there is a whole project list that my boss purposely is hiding from me. She signed herself up for all of them lol

Cleo_II posted...

Total comp. The base would be higher than my current one. Theyre also offering about 100k worth of equity but thats not real money to me until an exit occurs. If it ever does.

I wouldn't put value into the stock.

That's just a glorified "I promise you it'll be valuable in the future".

I'd measure the value by what kind of hard money they offer you right now.

Hmm if the benefits are THAT good where you are then it might better to stay. Also if you're likely next to be promoted then I doubt youd be the first one to go if guillotines start dropping.

Lack of bonuses means the gap likely will be smaller as you said. The stock options are long-term equity which is nice, but also contingent upon the company taking off.

Id also be wary of your current company promising you any kind of future leadership position, especially if you think cuts may be on the horizon.

CARRRNE_ASADA posted...

Hmm if the benefits are THAT good where you are then it might better to stay. Also if you're likely next to be promoted then I doubt youd be the first one to go if guillotines start dropping.

No I wont be let go. They will keep me but add on all the other peoples work that they do lay off. And still not promote me because no need for a manager now. Btdt at my previous company. That is why Im worried.

Cleo_II posted...

Ive made it clear when I joined my current company. Instead they have forced me to keep doing the same thing because Im a top performer. When I ask about additional projects, they lie and say there arent any and I should focus on filling the roles I have. I found out there is a whole project list that my boss purposely is hiding from me. She signed herself up for all of them lol

huge red flag right there. definitely a point in favour of making the move

teep_ posted...

huge red flag right there. definitely a point in favour of making the move

Yup. When I found out is when I started actively applying. I even brought up wanting to work on projects to my skip level who said my manager has the and will be showing it to me and she would talk to her to make sure she does. Been a month and never happened.

But Im like maybe I should stop being ambitious, coast and collect my paycheck like every one else does. But it just goes against my nature. I dont feel happy.

Im also thinking that even though its a drop in pay for now, the skills I would gain would have value. They said they would have a 6 month growth plan for me so that gives me action items instead of hand waving. Maybe its a sacrifice for a couple of years but I would learn and take those skills elsewhere to make even more money over time. I could say the same about staying at this company but Im just not seeing opportunities coming any time soon. Ive asked leadership many times and ask about timelines and its maybe when someone leaves. My boss will never leave though shes a lifer.

Stay at your current job for the better pay and benefits for your fam. Keep looking for something else in the meantime. Go up not down.

Going into a start up in this climate is too risky. Negative 25k for more work, hardly any benefits, less job security, and a promise isn't worth it to me.

Everything about the new job sounds riskier imo

with a family you gotta do what you can to make money, stay stable, and crucially, keep the benefits

i would never take a job from a startup at this stage in my life no matter how promising/far along they are

Your current job has better pay and benefits?

Unless youre absolutely beyond miserable there, I see no reason to leave for something that pays less and has worse benefits.

I would stay at your current job but continue to look. Is this the best opportunity that you will be presented or if you wait a month or two- can something else come along your way? This new company has a plan for you but what are the chances they will stick to it? The current company made promises as well but they didnt keep them.

IIRC you're in the six figure range, though I don't know by how much, but 25k seems like a massive step down, especially for a lateral move to a startup company with a ton of risk and basing the decision mostly on potential (with the product and opportunity for promotion - they may tell you there's tons of fast tracking and whatnot, but unless it's in writing, it's just a gamble).

Dropping by 25k would be an immediate no from me unless I made like 200k+.

Your first two points are very important

I work for med sized SaaS and the room to learn and grow in the company is massive. Makes a great work experience

TaylorHeinicke posted...

IIRC you're in the six figure range, though I don't know by how much, but 25k seems like a massive step down, especially for a lateral move to a startup company with a ton of risk and basing the decision mostly on potential (with the product and opportunity for promotion - they may tell you there's tons of fast tracking and whatnot, but unless it's in writing, it's just a gamble).

Dropping by 25k would be an immediate no from me unless I made like 200k+.

I do make 200k+

As for interviewing elsewhere. Ive been trying. Been turned down 3 other times. All because they say I am missing some skills. Skills that I am asking to learn at my current company but am being refused. Thats why Im wondering if I should just bite the bullet and take the hit. My company pays above market so options are limited.

If it doesnt work out, I have connections at top companies too. Think one in every FAANG. I just hate those companies but if I ever am in a bind I have options.

Cleo_II posted...

Less money as mentioned. 25k

Ya..No

Your decision obviously, but a 25k drop is a hard pass for me.

25k on 200k+ is not that much. Surely you have a lot of extra income that youre investing. Do what you enjoy more.

Interesting responses. My friends irl in the industry are telling me to go for it.

25k is a lot, but moving somewhere you will enjoy and learn more from is always a good choice in my opinion. Theres a few times where I let money make that decision and I regert

EndOfDiscOne posted...

25k on 200k+ is not that much. Surely you have a lot of extra income that youre investing. Do what you enjoy more.

Yeah I probably should have just put a percentage value instead of a number in my OP. Its about a 10% drop for me.

Sounds like you're better off staying where you are.

normally changing jobs yields a 15-20% pay increase

so really what you're looking at is the high risk effect of working for a startup. have you considered the other con of startups? you're going to be working way more hours

it's pretty much unavoidable, the reason startups give equity is so the people they ask to put in OT have skin in the game and a reason to actually bust their butts

personally, i'm already well established so i would never take such a job on, i don't need that kind of time->potential money exchange to meet my long term financial goals. and i think you're likely as well established as i am, so I'd be skeptical of the exchange's value

Sackgurl posted...

normally changing jobs yields a 15-20% pay increase

so really what you're looking at is the high risk effect of working for a startup. have you considered the other con of startups? you're going to be working way more hours

it's pretty much unavoidable, the reason startups give equity is so the people they ask to put in OT have skin in the game and a reason to actually bust their butts

personally, i'm already well established so i would never take such a job on, i don't need that kind of time->potential money exchange to meet my long term financial goals. and i think you're likely as well established as i am, so I'd be skeptical of the exchange's value

I went over their growth plans and current work load. Its reasonable. I talked to other start ups that were crazy though and walked away. One of them I felt would be too much. Heard after from friends that did join that it was 70-80 hours a week and when they IPOd the stock tanked. So Im aware of the risks involved.

I do think this company has a very good shot though. True its a gamble. If it pays out at 5X though I could be looking at half a mil in 4 years. Or could be worth as much as Monopoly money.

Cleo_II posted...

I went over their growth plans and current work load. Its reasonable.

but how does it compare to your current workload?

Cleo_II posted...

If it pays out at 5X though I could be looking at half a mil in 4 years.

certainly that is the upper end of the yield spectrum, so i pose this question to you: would that result in you living a significantly different life than you do now?

What situation would you regret more? Staying with your current company, having it remain stagnant and not super great, and regretting not taking the other opportunity?

Or taking the other opportunity, having things end up not be good, and then regretting taking the pay cut to move?

Im generally of the dont take a pay cut unless you really, really hate where youre at now camp, but obviously understand there are other tangible and intangible factors at play in a decision like this outside of base salary alone. I know from experience how long and painful it can be to climb back from a pay cut and/or lowball offer, so that motivates me knowing that it would either take a job move or long-ass amount of time to dig out from that hole.

Perhaps they could meet somewhere in the middle so its only a $10-15k cut? That would at least be a bit easier to swallow than $25 gs

Tough call knowing your boss is actively screwing you. If you're financially secure enough to lose the gamble and come out okay, I would probably do it.

Honestly, I'd jump ship. Your current job sounds like misery.

But that's ONLY if you can get by with a 25K pay cut, at least for a number of years until they take off.
And of course they might not, but if their chances look good, it might be worth trusting it.

But that's it. If 25K is the difference between tearing your hair out racking up credit card debt and living comfortably, don't do it.

If you flipped a coin, for which one would you be disappointed if it landed on it?

Sackgurl posted...

but how does it compare to your current workload?

certainly that is the upper end of the yield spectrum, so i pose this question to you: would that result in you living a significantly different life than you do now?

Id say same. But also in a way easier as well. My current company is overly bloated with processes that add on to our day to day.

And yeah if it paid off that would be huge for my family. Thats college money for my daughter, etc. Even if its just 1X at exit I would get my money back over time.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Girl, tell me about it. Theres a lot more but I didnt put it in the OP. She made comments to me like You know other managers could feel jealous that one of their reports are doing as well as you but I know the better you do the better I look. Then she got promoted

E_S_M_Z posted...

Honestly, I'd jump ship. Your current job sounds like misery.

But that's ONLY if you can get by with a 25K pay cut, at least for a number of years until they take off.
And of course they might not, but if their chances look good, it might be worth trusting it.

But that's it. If 25K is the difference between tearing your hair out racking up credit card debt and living comfortably, don't do it.

Financially we would be ok. We will cut services like house cleaning, lawn mowing, ordering food, etc

Cleo_II posted...

Id say same. But also in a way easier as well. My current company is overly bloated with processes that add on to our day to day.

And yeah if it paid off that would be huge for my family. Thats college money for my daughter, etc. Even if its just 1X at exit I would get my money back over time.

then go for it, you've already assessed that the low end scenario isn't likely, and the time/money costs in the short term aren't a big hit

my experience with startups is usually nothing like this, the ones i've spoken to have been clear that i'd be looking at five years of hell for my payout, so i've generally not been interested even in the biggest payout return scenarios

if the workload is what you say, you're taking a small risk for a substantial probable return.