Poll of the Day > why roguelites gotta be hard as fuck

(+) Yeah! (+)

fuck, the one i'm currently playing defaults the difficulty to 'hard"

well that's way too fucking hard, so i switched it to normal

and it didn't change anything

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/8/1/AAUojWAADaO5.jpg

Why would anything default to Hard? Normal is called Normal for a reason.

Cause the entire gameplay loop is facing what seems to be an insurmountable challenge but unlocking enough doodads, learning patterns, and getting lucky enough to whoop butt

That's the fun of it.

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

Why would anything default to Hard? Normal is called Normal for a reason.

Beacause that's the way the developers intended the game to be played probably, In the older Halo games it outright tells you that Hard(Heroic) is the way it's meant to be played. They want you to have the option to turn it down though.

My normal setting is hard.

Because they lack in content

Cruddy_horse posted...

Beacause that's the way the developers intended the game to be played probably, In the older Halo games it outright tells you that Hard(Heroic) is the way it's meant to be played. They want you to have the option to turn it down though.

this is correct, but it doesn't default to hard though. it defaults to normal

nurse posted...

this is correct, but it doesn't default to hard though. it defaults to normal

not according to your opening post

i'm not talking about halo in my opening post

is returnal good

it sounds hard

nurse posted...

why roguelites gotta be hard as fuck

Because that's always been part of the appeal of the genre?

It's like asking why Soulslike games are hard.

It's also why I don't really play Soulslikes or Roguelikes/Roguelites.



Nichtcrawler-X posted...

Why would anything default to Hard? Normal is called Normal for a reason.

Was going to point out the Halo example, where Halo has a "Normal" difficulty and then explicitly tells you that you're supposed to be playing on Heroic.

But then it was mentioned by someone else.

Game devs can have difficulty default to any setting they want. They can even do stuff like Wolfenstein 3D or Doom where they basically make fun of you for playing on the lower settings. Sure, "Normal" is going to be the general baseline, but it doesn't have to be. Any dev trying to stand out from others or otherwise be a bit more unique could easily have the game start on higher difficulties and just allow the player to dial things back a bit if it's too much. Starting on Hard could even allow players to step down to Normal without feeling bad, whereas some people feel self-conscious about stepping down to an Easy or Casual difficulty.



nurse posted...

this is correct, but it doesn't default to hard though. it defaults to normal

Does it? It's been a while since I last played a Halo game, but my vague memory is that it doesn't technically default to anything but asks you in advance which difficulty you want to play on. So you have to actively choose before play begins.

And then they use a logo for the Heroic difficulty that looks more official than the lower ones (with the two crossed swords as opposed to one lopsided sword or none), and the text that explicitly says that Heroic is how Halo "is meant to be played", so they're clearly trying to steer you towards Heroic and not Normal.

I think the this is how halo is meant to be played started in either halo 3 or reach.

joemodda posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/8/1/AAUojWAADaO5.jpg

Mood

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's like asking why Soulslike games are hard.

they're not that hard tho

nurse posted...

they're not that hard tho

Yeah, once you get into the groove, Soulslikes are not hard.

oh i'm playing moonlighter, btw

moonlighter is good and not as difficult as a lot of others

undermine is another really good one

DirtBasedSoap posted...

is returnal good

it sounds hard

returnal is crazy hard

but so freaking good. Its the best roguelike imo

Someone on gamefaqs recommended Rift Wizard for a good roguelike, that one's plenty fun.

VampireCoyote posted...

moonlighter is good and not as difficult as a lot of others

undermine is another really good one

I have both did these for switch. I like them both. I beat undermine already, but not moonlighter yet

VampireCoyote posted...

returnal is crazy hard

okay Ill pass then lol

VampireCoyote posted...

returnal is crazy hard

but so freaking good. Its the best roguelike imo

I have this I havent had a chance to play it yet, though But excited to do so

shadowsword87 posted...

Someone on gamefaqs recommended Rift Wizard for a good roguelike, that one's plenty fun.

One of the more unique takes on roguelikes, if you want something free and regarding zombies. CDDA, Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead, is a solid game.

roguelikes aren't that hard, they just remove the ability to pre-plan from the equation...

...

Which is weirdly why NetHack is such a compelling roguelike - there's so much random BS but you can prep for anything. While there's not much you can do against a random gnome with a wand of death (it can happen)... you can go down a floor, find out you need fire resistance, and then backtrack to make plans; Polymorph a ring? polymorph self? find some animals that grant fire resist when eaten? Level up more if Monk or Priest? WISH for such an item? Go back to the stores and hope? Pray for an artifact and hope you get Firebrand?...

Can't find fire resistance; is it a touch attack? Magic cancelling robes will help. Is it a spell? reflection is good. Is it just to protect your burnable items? find a non-organic bag or box to store items in!

Give up on fire resist? fine a ranged attack if it's a monster, or levitation if it's a hazard, or if it's a demon perhaps engraving Elbereth into the floor will help?

...

everything in nethack is like that

I think pathos is the same as nethack? I dunno Ive played a bunch of pathos and I always get crazy OP but then screw myself over by accidentally turning into a ghost or something weird

VampireCoyote posted...

I think pathos is the same as nethack? I dunno Ive played a bunch of pathos and I always get crazy OP but then screw myself over by accidentally turning into a ghost or something weird

i legit don't know the differences between pathos and nethack... but according to a reddit post:

Some differences:

• In general there's in-game help that you should consult judiciously until you get used to things.
• Pathos's pets are severely nerfed; even as a tourist cats and horses are worthless. (Exception is if you started with an egg.)
• Pathos is more generous with its loot than Nethack. If an enemy is generated with armour, it's almost definitely enchanted and uncured. Workbenches allow you to get the exact loot you want at the cost of other resources.
• Identification is a lot easier. Shopkeepers will do it for a fee (and gold is pretty easy to come by in Pathos.)
• Lycanthropy doesn't exist. Feel free to beat the shit out of werewolves or wererats or whatever. Afflictions exist and you should solve them, but few are crippling as in Nethack.
• Much fewer instadeaths.
• No spell or jewellery hunger, no iron affecting spellcasting, no Elbereth, no complex identification game.
• God happiness is easier to track (it's called karma and you're given the exact number you have at any given time) and less random. There is only one god.
• Shrines which give you boons in exchange for karma are placed randomly throughout the dungeon.
• Praying does not get you artifacts; those are generated randomly throughout the dungeon and often at the end of special branches. There are a set no. of artifacts in the game.

20XX once gave me no health or mobility upgrades On Defiant (Hard Mode), with an additional 2x damage received modifier.

Thanks for the recommendations, bought a couple of the mentioned ones, playing undermine now

My input is RoR 2, especially if you have people to play with.

Single player, Rogue legacy is great, Sythetik, Niota, Steamworld Dig 2, Binding of Isaac Rebirth, Eldritch. All these games were like crack to me at one point. I basically only play indie games.

Yellow posted...

Eldritch

woo, the dev is a cool guy

nurse posted...

oh i'm playing moonlighter, btw

I still need to get that.

moonlighter is good

Dreamscaper is nifty so far

VampireCoyote posted...

Dreamscaper is nifty so far

I played this one, too One of my friends is big on Roguelikes/Roguelites, so we play quite a few of them

before moonlighter I was playing skull hero slayer

thats a really fun and charming game that I just hit an absolute wall in, and i don't blame the game for it. im just not that good and I can recognize this

before that was neon abyss, which I just got tired of but it was decent

But for real 20XX underrated af

Buddyblade posted...

But for real 20XX underrated af

it's pretty good, but it didn't scratch my itch the way Robot Named Fight did

edit: sidenote, Cloudberry Kingdom is a must-play... it's not good, but it's a must-play

Lokarin posted...

it's pretty good, but it didn't scratch my itch the way Robot Named Fight did

edit: sidenote, Cloudberry Kingdom is a must-play... it's not good, but it's a must-play

Sorry, Im salty bc I had a good run going and then I forgot I made the following poor choices: 1. Picking up The Volunteer 2. Grabbing defiant decree and another prototype without thinking 3. Stage 9 boss, low health

Might check out Cloudberry

Buddyblade posted...

But for real 20XX underrated af

it was okay it felt a little too easy to 100% though

ring of pain is pretty frustrating so far

VampireCoyote posted...

it was okay it felt a little too easy to 100% though

ring of pain is pretty frustrating so far

Im aiming to fill out the database by collecting every item

The point of roguelites is that it becomes easier despite your skill level.

Yellow posted... Single player, Rogue legacy is great, Sythetik, Niota, Steamworld Dig 2, Binding of Isaac Rebirth, Eldritch. All these games were like crack to me at one point. I basically only play indie games.

SD2 is Metroidvania but not roguelite. Now something like Dead Cells is a Metroidvania roguelite.

i started playing returnal and i fucking hate it. got to the first main boss a few times and have died when it has just a sliver of health left every time. how tf do people have the patience to put up with ragebait bullshit like this? i enjoy a challenge but resetting my progress by 30 minutes or more every time i die is dogshit game design.

derp git gud

No, git gud at making a decent game.

Keep smashing your face against stuff, learn your dash, focus better at shoot

you can do

DirtBasedSoap posted...

i started playing returnal and i fucking hate it. got to the first main boss a few times and have died when it has just a sliver of health left every time. how tf do people have the patience to put up with ragebait bullshit like this? i enjoy a challenge but resetting my progress by 30 minutes or more every time i die is dogshit game design.

derp git gud

No, git gud at making a decent game.

Are you going to return it?

i made it to the final boss of skul, with a revive, and just got fuckin steamrolled when he was like one pixel of hp

that skull was dope af tho but I had dog shit items

I haven't played Dead Cells in a while; I remember I kept getting stomped in that long lighthouse battle.

I bought Moonlighter when it was really cheap on Switch. I should get around to playing it.

I played 20XX that was fun for a while. Certainly the only mega Man roguelite I've ever played but it didn't keep me entertained for as long as most roguelites do.

Ring of pain was amazing aesthetically and the idea behind it is great though I felt it lacked in low level content. Haven't played since October but I enjoyed the time I got out of it.

Still have to buy and play Skul Hero Slayer, Undermine, Dead Cells.

Y'all should try vampire survivor since it's so cheap, fun and has lots of content. Auto shooters are fun. Loop Hero was our go to auto-rpg.

But if you're willing to drop a little more money then VS, Atomic Crops is one of my favorite rogue lights of all time. You grow a farm, raid enemy camps, get upgrades, harvest crops, sell crops, marry people and kill a new boss every season of the year. The goal is to get to atomic winter. Earn cornucopias from bosses to get permanent upgrades.

Oh and Into the Breach is mech vs giant bug chess. Play it, it's getting a massive content update the 30th of this month.

I was waiting on a good Steam sale for Dead Cells; it never seemed to go less than 12 bucks

Found out today that it was included with PS+

I forgot about Void Bastards

that game is really cool and unique