Board 8 > Para's Top 50 games from 2020-2021

(+) Yeah! (+)

#35: Spookware

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/2/4/AAA-H0AADblg.jpg

There is an emerging genre in the indie space, and we need to talk about it. I don't have a name for it yet, but I like to call it the "NPC Quest." This type of game may be purely story driven or it may have some gameplay, but a large portion of this style of game is walking around a world, meeting a series of fun, cute, and increasingly useless NPCs, and talking to them, sometimes to advance the story, sometimes just for fun, experiencing the game's witty writing along the way. Obviously, the big establishing place-setter for this genre is Undertale, without question. It's not the FIRST game to do this, but it is by far the most popular and influential. Yes, Undertale has gameplay, it has story, but it is MOSTLY about walking around and talking to NPCs. And that aspect of the game is great! Undertale has dozens and dozens of cute characters to meet and quotable lines to read. It takes good writing and design to make this type of game compelling, but it can work, at very little development cost, which is why we're seeing a lot of indie games doing this now. Point is, Spookware is one of these.

It also happens to be a horror-themed WarioWare game, which is the meat of the game that you're talking to NPCs to get to.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/2/5/AAA-H0AADblh.png

Spookware has a bit of a confusing history which needs to be addressed, because it's actually three games, and not just one, but they're all 2020-2021 games so no eligibility problems here. The original Spookware was a short game jam game; a short series of games you can play in just a few minutes. It's like WarioWare, which I probably don't need to introduce; you have extremely short minigames that pop up with their own control schemes and goals, and you have about five seconds to figure out what to do and beat the game. It's fast and frantic and Spookware really understands how to capture that same feeling. The horror movie aesthetics, which range anywhere from 'spooky skeletons' to 'slasher flick', are also a lot of fun; you can just tell the dev had a fun time designing the visuals and putting the games together. They all have a sort of handmade style to them like someone took a lot of clip art and made a puppet show out of it - that's the best way I can describe it. It's an unpolished jam game that lasts a few minutes (although it took me a few tries to beat), but it's a good proof of concept. And they built upon it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/2/6/AAA-H0AADbli.jpg

The second game is Spookware @ The Video Store, which is itself part of an anthology of horror games that I didn't play and don't remember the name of, but I just love the idea of an anthology of short horror video games; it feels really true to the tradition of the horror genre. This is only a little bit longer than the jam version, having a couple of sets of games, but it also introduces a framing device; three skeleton brothers named Lefti, Midi and Righti, and the microgames take the form of horror movies that the brothers are watching. This framing device is a lot of fun, but it's still not a full game yet. Both of these previous games are available for free as Spookware: Watch Party on Steam, and I recommend checking them out.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/2/7/AAA-H0AADblj.jpg

Then there's Spookware, the fully realized version of the game, and this is the one that's available in the Ukraine bundle, if you bought that. Well, I say fully realized, but it's episodic - only the first three episodes are out right now, so as of now it's an incomplete game, but I'm talking about it anyway since what's there lasts for probably about 2-3 hours and holds up pretty well on its own. In Spookware (just titled Spookware), you again play as the three skeleton brothers, watching horror movies in the basement, but then the game takes a turn into the NPC Quest thing I was talking about earlier. In between playing sets of microgames, you wander around and talk to people and have a madcap series of adventures, occasionally discovering more microgames to play along the way, until you get to a new set of microgames at the end of the chapter.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/2/8/AAA-H0AADblk.jpg

Walking around and talking to people could overstay its welcome pretty well, but the skeleton NPCs that populate the game are fun to talk to, and the game's writing plus the occasional microgame getting thrown into the mix keeps things fresh. The game also manages to not overstay its welcome by having every chapter be different; not only are the scenarios different but the theming and style of games and even the framing mechanics around them change, new gimmicks showing up along the way. And the microgames themselves are a fun reward for playing through the game; it's always exciting to get a new batch of them, and the anticipation for them makes them more fun, in a way.

The best thing I can say about it is that I'm really excited for further chapters to come out - what's here is still a pretty long game, so once all the promised chapters are out this could turn out to be a pretty long adventure game with a full WarioWare's catalog worth of microgames to play, and the thought of that is pretty enticing. I'm looking forward to seeing where this one goes and I feel like it might be worth revisiting on a future goty list. I figure that developing a lot of microgames takes time with having to make new assets and controls for each one just for 5 seconds of gameplay, which is why the game paces them out with a story in between, so I expect it'll be a little bit of time until we see further chapters, but hopefully it'll be before Deltarune comes out.

Next up: Remember when I said I had three Time Loop games on my list? I lied, because I'm an idiot and miscounted. There's four Time Loop games on my list. This is the first one of them, and also I think the first game on this list that was really taken seriously as a GOTY contender.

I keep forgetting to resize my screenshots so that they don't take up the entire page, sorry

I'm not a big fan of NPC Quest type games (with the exception of RPG Maker games, where the combat/puzzles/etc are usually bad anyway so excising them is fine) but Spookware sounds cool. I'm not sure how I've never heard of it -- I've scanned through the whole Ukraine bundle multiple times for anything that catches my interest.

Paratroopa1 posted...
Next up: Remember when I said I had three Time Loop games on my list? I lied, because I'm an idiot and miscounted. There's four Time Loop games on my list. This is the first one of them, and also I think the first game on this list that was really taken seriously as a GOTY contender.

Final Fantasy 1 Pixel Remaster time

So, Deathloop?

I always want to guess a certain game for these time loop games but then I get repeatedly told it's a spoiler even to say it's a time loop game when I mention it elsewhere on the board

Post it in spoilers?

The one I posted is kinda a spoiler <_<

I'm not gonna spoil anything on my list needlessly

I mean I personally don't think it's actually a spoiler but that's just me apparently

My guess is The Forgotten City, pretty sure I've seen that called a GotY contender. Deathloop's a good guess too though.

Kenri posted...

My guess is The Forgotten City, pretty sure I've seen that called a GotY contender. Deathloop's a good guess too though.

We have a winner!

#34: The Forgotten City

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/1/AAA-H0AADbph.jpg

Another emerging genre, or I guess pervasive theme, in today's gaming is the time loop. 2021 was absolutely filled with them, and I expect to see a lot more of them in the future. Maybe it's because everyone's trying to ride on Outer Wilds's coattails, maybe it's because the pandemic has put us into some kind of melancholy state of wondering what we could have all done differently, maybe people just realized time loops are real fuckin' good.

I love time loops and I'm never gonna get tired of them. As cliche as they might seem by now in video games, they serve a really good purpose, especially in adventure games. A lot of these games are all about experimentation and failure, trying to figure out what you can do and what gets you killed, and normally there's just a lot of saving and resetting involved - but the idea of a time loop lets you integrate that system of experimentation and failure into the concept of the game itself, into its core gameplay and narrative. There's so much that you can do with that! It's not just a gimmick for its own sake, but something that changes the way a game can be interacted with. I think that's great. Give me more time loops.

A friend of mine is having the usual post-Outer Wilds blues of I'll Never Play A Game Like That Ever Again and asked me if I recommended Forgotten City as a game to fill that void. And, well, no, I can't make that recommendation; nothing is really like Outer Wilds. But if you want a fun little time loop adventure with a cool premise and surprisingly good writing that lasts about 10 hours and doesn't overstay its welcome, you could do a lot worse.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/2/AAA-H0AADbpi.jpg

The Forgotten City has you exploring ruins in modern times and falling back through time into an ancient Roman city. Its 20 or so denizens live in harmony under the Golden Rule; treat others as you would want to be treated. If anyone breaks the Golden Rule, then everyone dies. You are informed, unfortunately, that you are here because someone is about to break the Golden Rule, and it's your job to go around town, talking to people and trying to figure out who's going to break the rule and kill everyone.

The premise was an instant hook, for me, and the game ultimately delivers pretty well on it, albeit not perfectly. I don't want to get too deep into spoilers on this game, just for the sake of keeping the review brief and not having to spoiler bar stuff, but the game has some clever little time loop tricks to it, and some fun philosophical quandaries. The game really loves its ancient Roman/Greek moral philosophy and is really happy to get into the weeds with it and discuss the nature of what really is a breach of the Golden Rule and what isn't, and this kind of stuff is where the game shines. It turns out that there's a surprising number of absolute bastards in town committing bastardly acts, and everything is not well in the city, and the game does a pretty good job of examining the thematic throughline of how bad people can get away with doing bad things.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/3/AAA-H0AADbpj.jpg

It doesn't quite do EVERYTHING I wish it could have done, gameplay-wise. The game is fairly short, and for a time loop adventure game, it's extremely easy; most of the game's major problems don't really require a lot of puzzle solving to figure out, usually just talking to another person and then coming back to the problem with more information kind of makes it work out. As a result, it's almost impossible to not be able to finish this game; it's constantly herding you towards the solution, and I imagine everyone will finish it in about 10 hours. I think that this game could really have used a lot more clever problem solving, but it is what it is. There's still enough here that makes it fun to play, and sometimes it's nice to not feel totally overwhelmed in an adventure game.

The Forgotten City began life as a Skyrim mod, and it shows. I'm not actually sure if it's still running on the Skyrim engine or not, but it sure feels like it. The world feels like it's mostly comprised of borrowed 3D assets, and character models have that kind of slight early 10's uncanniness about them. Honestly, though, I actually sort of appreciate it. There's something I really enjoy about seeing the economy of their development here; it's hard to explain, but it's like, the sense of satisfaction I get out of seeing something executed well within a developers' meager means and budget. This game has tons of moments where I appreciated what they were able to do with this Skyrim mod and what they weren't, where they decided to put their resources into making this game interesting and unique, etc. It's a relatively unambitious and carefully scoped game, and there is sort of an artform to that.

This game has a pretty interesting story, really solid voice acting, and enough interesting adventure gameplay and NPC Quest-iness to keep me entertained for its runtime, and I don't ask for a lot more. It does what it sets out to do and sticks the landing on its premise. As I alluded to, I've seen a lot of people who REALLY loved this game and thought it was one of the best they've played this year; I wasn't quite to that point, but I do think that this will be a game that I'll remember for a long time nontheless. It's no Outer Wilds, but if you're looking for something that kind of fills a very tiny portion of the void left by it, The Forgotten City is worth a look.

Next up: It's a Metroidvania! It's not Metroid Dread. Try a different one. It's not Axiom Verge 2 either, I forgot to list that as a 'game I should have played.'

Wait, The Forgotten City was a GOTY contender? I would have guessed that if I had thought anyone at all had been talking about it as such.

For the next one, I'll guess Ender Lilies because I played it and enjoyed it, but Grime is probably more likely. INB4 it's actually Deedlit.

I worded it poorly, I didn't mean like in the "it was nominated for GOTY" sense but rather the "a good number of people thought this was one of the best games this year" sense (every other game on my list up to this point has been way more marginal than this except maybe Fall Guys)

Ah I meant to guess Forgotten City last night but must've forgotten to post >_>

I really like that game, but like you I probably have it a step below top tier. I think the philosophical stuff isn't quite as strong as (major spoilers) the initial figuring out where you are, and the whole thing about civilisations borrowing/stealing from the past. Wish they'd gone into the Egyptian and Sumerian part more! Also some of the characters could've been given more to work with. But still, a really fun game.

I was going to guess Ori 2 but I see you didn't play it yet, so... Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth.

haven't played spookware yet (though i should since i have that ukraine bundle), but what you're describing as the npc quest sounds like flatgames with maybe other mechanics on top?

yeah, for a time loop game you don't really have to loop in forgotten city that many times which actually kinda feels right because of how violent, harrowing, and best avoided the process of resetting the loop is. as always, i must sing the praise of galerius.

for the next one i'll guess Astalon.

Forgotten City rules yes. I would have it in a top 10 of 2020 and 2021 I think (somewhere around the 10-spot?)

Paratroopa1 posted...

Another emerging genre, or I guess pervasive theme, in today's gaming is the time loop. 2021 was absolutely filled with them, and I expect to see a lot more of them in the future. Maybe it's because everyone's trying to ride on Outer Wilds's coattails, maybe it's because the pandemic has put us into some kind of melancholy state of wondering what we could have all done differently, maybe people just realized time loops are real fuckin' good.

I'm pretty sure all of them were in development before Outer Wilds came out. The original Forgotten City mod came out in 2017 and they started work on the independent game the same year, I believe. Twelve Minutes started development way back in 2012...

There were a ridiculous amount of timeloop games in 2021 but I love the genre so I don't mind. Did Outer Wilds make an impact on the gaming world like that? Don't get me wrong, I adore that game, but I thought it didn't get the recognition or sales you'd expect if it was gonna influence coattail riding that quickly. And yeah I imagine these games take a while to make.

Outer Wilds won GOTY awards from major outlets, it was definitely a success

My comment about Outer Wilds was meant to be completely flippant lol, although I really hadn't considered how long a lot of the time loop games that came out this year had to have been in development, so it feels like some kind of weird simultaneous discovery, like when a baby name becomes super popular for no reason

andylt posted...

I really like that game, but like you I probably have it a step below top tier. I think the philosophical stuff isn't quite as strong as (major spoilers) the initial figuring out where you are, and the whole thing about civilisations borrowing/stealing from the past. Wish they'd gone into the Egyptian and Sumerian part more! Also some of the characters could've been given more to work with. But still, a really fun game.

Yeah I totally agree with this. Forgotten City is a tricky one because I do feel like it left a lot on the table but what's there is still really good and memorable and worth playing.

PumpkinCoach posted...

yeah, for a time loop game you don't really have to loop in forgotten city that many times which actually kinda feels right because of how violent, harrowing, and best avoided the process of resetting the loop is. as always, i must sing the praise of galerius.

I feel kind of bad about some of these writeups because I feel like there's a lot more I could say about Forgotten City, but I don't always have the words in mind and I just kind of have to put out there what I've got and move on. But there are a lot of small things about Forgotten City that are worth talking about and Galerius, who is both good as a character and good as a game mechanic, is worth mentioning. I love that he functions as a way to get a lot of stuff done quickly without having to redo it every time, but then I love that the twist that comes with that is that Galerius becomes known as a hero among the town for all the deeds you tell him to do, I was expecting him to be merely a matter of convenience and not have that be part of the plot!

PumpkinCoach posted...

for the next one i'll guess Astalon.

We have another winner!

#33: Astalon: Tears of the Earth

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/2/4/AAA-H0AADcfU.jpg

I feel like my writeups for these games tend to be pretty cliche. I always write them in this sort of five paragraph essay style where my intro paragraph is always something that's either semi-related or unrelated to the game I'm talking about and then I tie it in later. I try to play around with voice and style as much as I can with these things to make them interesting to read, but I've also only got so much time in the day and I'd like to at least put these out at a rate of like, once per day. I wanna get this shit done.

Anyway I sat on this one for a few days because I was just like, oh shit, I have to think of something profound to say about Astalon: Tears of the Earth. Some kind of thesis statement, or just something about the game I really want to talk about. And I've got nothing for this game! Nothing really urgent that I need to talk about here. Astalon is just a really good metroidvania that you should probably play.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/2/5/AAA-H0AADcfV.jpg

Astalon: Tears of the Earth has you playing as three characters that you can switch between; a warrior with close range sword attacks, a mage with a fast mid-range projectile, and a rogue with a slow, long-range bow. There's a plot that I frankly don't remember at all, and a sprawling dungeon that you need to explore and kill some bosses in. The main gimmick is that every time you die, you get brought to a shop where you can buy upgrades, either upgrading each of your characters' stats, or buying other shared upgrades that will help you in your next life. It's not a roguelike at all, but it does have the familiar ebb and flow of a metaprogression roguelike where you'll die quite a bit but then grow stronger every time, and it makes for an addictive hook into the game.

I think what I like most about this game, though, is the level design. This is one of those games that feels like a proper metroidvania, one that really understands the assignment. The world feels big and its series of rooms and hallways feel properly complex. There's plenty of doubling back to old areas, upgrades hidden in tricky places, areas that you can't get to yet but can come back to later. It can be a lot; this game relies a lot on one-way doors that you have to open from the other end. But, every new pathway and shortcut you open feels well earned; this is a dungeon that feels like it needs to be excavated, not just explored.

This is aided by the fact that the difficulty curve felt just right for me. This game is challenging and demanding enough that I died quite a few times, but never so difficult that it felt impossible or frustrating. The game does get a bit easier over time, as games with upgrade systems tend to, as Algus, the mage, becomes unbearably overpowered when upgraded and mashes the final boss into a fine paste by the time you're done (which is good because the final boss would be insanely hard otherwise). The upgrade system helps ensure that you're never quite stuck - I never did much farming at all, the currency I had on hand always just put me over the hump.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/2/6/AAA-H0AADcfW.jpg

I've got a few complaints, but they're fairly mild. I did have to look up a walkthrough once or twice just because this game has occasional moments of La-Mulana-esque crypticness, where a puzzle doesn't quite make sense either because you don't understand what the game wants of you, or because you missed something you needed along the way, not to mention the numerous times throughout where you'll *feel* like you're missing something (all those weird yellow blocks you see throughout the game do serve a purpose, but not until POSTGAME content). There's upgrades that are weird too, as some of them are permanent but some only work for the next run for some reason, but the game doesn't tell you which are which - and the upgrades that work only for the next run still get more expensive every time you buy them, a mechanic that I never really quite worked out. This always left me feeling like I didn't quite understand the game fully, which was a weird experience.

Still, it's a rock solid metroidvania. I was reminded of the days when I used to read Nintendo Power and look at maps for games I wouldn't play; I was always fascinated by adventure games in which you'd have to travel deep into the game's world, get some important upgrade, but then eventually double back to the game's starting area to get stuff you missed the first time. It always made the game seem so rich and interesting when it was nonlinear like that. Astalon: Tears of the Earth kind of feels like it's pulled straight out of my imagination of what those games must have been like. It feels properly retro, with bright, beautiful spritework right out of the NES or SMS, but it's a finely polished action adventure with a solid 10 hours or so of content in it. I love games in 2022 that make me feel like I'm playing what I imagined would be a really good game in 1990.

Next up: I almost skipped this game because it was frequently compared favorably to Dark Souls. Fortunately for me, it's hardly anything like Dark Souls, people just haven't played other games. (I bought it because of the main character.)

Was going to say Tunic, but that was this year. Death's Door?

castor in the middle there

I bought the physical of Astalon from LRG so I'm still waiting on it. So far I've had like, zero luck in buying the expensive physical versions of Metroidvanias that I actually end up really liking, but hopefully this one bucks the trend. Your writeup definitely makes it sound promising!

Paratroopa1 posted...

Next up: I almost skipped this game because it was frequently compared favorably to Dark Souls. Fortunately for me, it's hardly anything like Dark Souls, people just haven't played other games. (I bought it because of the main character.)

Now is the time for Metroid Dread...!

Paratroopa1 posted...

There's a plot that I frankly don't remember at all

The three adventurers come from a village that is suffering from poisoned water, and are heading up the river to figure out the source. They come to the tower the game takes place in, and decide to venture inside. There's a mysterious black knight in the tower who seems to be behind everything, and acts cartoonishly villainous about it, until you find out what's really going on.

Algus, the mage, has already made a pact with a demon in preparation for the ordeal, whereby they can be constantly revived until they achieve their task, but once they do, Algus must surrender his soul to the demon. He's at least a generation older than the other two, having quested with the swordsman's father, and just wants to make sure the two younglings make it home alive.

I do remember the bit about Algus having made a pact with a demon which is pretty cool.

I forgot to mention by the way that TECHNICALLY this is a time loop game but I didn't include it as one because I don't really think it plays like a time loop game

Almost guessed Stranger of Paradise for the next one but thats from this year

Yeah I can't think of anything that's both technically a time loop game and kinda-not-really a Souls-like, from 2020-21.

I'd assume a roguelike with some souls-y elements? Not sure what that'd be tho.

I thought Para was saying that Astalon was the time loop game, not the next entry.

But I can't think of something in the right years that people compare to Dark Souls that she'd like... Do people really compare Death's Door to Souls?

andylt posted...

I thought Para was saying that Astalon was the time loop game, not the next entry.

right

andylt posted...

But I can't think of something in the right years that people compare to Dark Souls that she'd like... Do people really compare Death's Door to Souls?

Not comparing things to Dark Souls is the Dark Souls of comparisons, in that it's really hard

andylt posted...

I thought Para was saying that Astalon was the time loop game, not the next entry.

But I can't think of something in the right years that people compare to Dark Souls that she'd like... Do people really compare Death's Door to Souls?

yeah, Deaths Door had some Souls comparisons for sure

found one pretty quick on meta critic Wed give this one a very high recommendation, especially to any fans of Zelda or Soulslike games

It's a good thing you guys were correct, otherwise it'd be awkward

#32: Death's Door

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/2/0/AAA-H0AADcu4.jpg

No really, why DO people compare this game to Dark Souls, though? And don't say that people don't do that, I've heard it from like three different people! Is it because this game has a dodge roll? Because it has a slightly melancholy vibe and grayscale aesthetics? Dark Souls didn't even invent those things! It's not like Dark Souls at all! There's no RPG elements, your attacks come out instantly and have no windup, and it's not frustrating and annoying to play. It has a crow! What I'm trying to say is that Death's Door is better than Dark Souls. Come at me. I will fight you and I will win because my attacks don't take 12 seconds to perform.

(Dark Souls is fine, by the way. It's just not for me. Please don't actually fight me over the merits of the game, I will immediately acquiesce.)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/2/1/AAA-H0AADcu5.jpg

Death's Door is a little isometric action game with some very light Zelda elements where you play as a little crow who has to go reap some souls. That's pretty much it. What it lacks in the originality of its gameplay premise, it makes up for by its presentation being polished to a mirror shine. It really lives off of its visual style in particular; the game's world pops off the screen like a little animated diorama, the environments so uncannily smooth that they almost look like they could be real, made out of real miniatures fimed in some kind of impossibly fluid stop motion. This is an example of a game where just wanting to look at it is something that consistently drew me back in. It has a relatively muted color palette compared to most of the games I like (up to this point, I think BPM, Pawnbarian, and Forgotten City are the only games I wouldn't describe as explosively colorful) and it's rare for me to really get drawn into these 'dark' color palettes, so that really speaks to the immersive quality of this game.

Like Astalon in my previous writeup, it also - at least for me - had a nearly perfectly designed difficulty curve. The game is demanding, but not unfair. You don't have a lot of room for error as your health bar is pretty small, but all of the basic enemies and bosses give a fair amount of telegraphing to their attacks, and your little crow has responsive movement and a dodge roll, so any time you get hit by something it really feels like your fault; yet, the game's attack patterns are interesting and tricky enough that you will get hit nontheless. Attacks feel good; weapon attacks are quick and snappy, and charging up and letting loose your ranged attacks is satisfying, although I wish attacks landed with a little more of a 'thud' to them.

I wouldn't call this game a metroidvania, but it does have a little bit of that vibe to it with getting upgrades that let you explore more places. I felt like this game could have used a bit more of that, as cool new weapons and upgrades are too far and few between to make exploring feel like it's worth it some of the time. On the bright side, though, I was surprised by how well hidden secrets are in this game; health and magic upgrades come in the form of these giant shrines that you feel like you couldn't possibly miss, but the game uses these clever camera tricks to keep them just out of view, which makes the swinging of the camera around the level to reveal them once you've found the hidden path immensely satisfying. I've always had a big soft spot for secrets that are fair but well hidden since DKC2 so this won me over.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/2/2/AAA-H0AADcu6.jpg

I don't know how I feel about this game not having a map. I've always praised Metroid 1 for exactly this, because getting helplessly lost and having to remember where things are yourself is somehow satisfying in a slightly masochistic way, but the mazelike areas of Death's Door and the inability to zoom out and see where in them you are can be more than a little frustrating at times, and I always felt like if I put the game down for too long I'd forget where I was going. I also think the game has way too much wandering around - there were a few times where I couldn't figure out where to go and I'd literally spend up to 20 minutes just kind of pacing back and forth through empty areas cleared of any enemies or threats, without any map or fast movement to help me clear ground faster, and it feels almost designed that way to pad the runtime of what's otherwise a modestly short game. There's some postgame stuff to do, but because it would require me to go through all these areas again I couldn't really bring myself to do it.

In any case, I'm glad I gave this game a chance, because it's a gorgeous looking and competently made action game. I probably wouldn't have given it a chance if it didn't have a crow. This game has a whole bureaucracy full of crows! Birds are my favorite animal and pretty much any game that features them is going to inherently get a lot more attention from me. I think I wouldn't have enjoyed this game half as much if it just starred like, some guy. I don't just want to play as some guy. I want to play a cute bird and it's simple stuff like that that keeps me playing a game sometimes.

It's actually occurring to me now that Hollow Knight is probably a better comp for this game, and Hollow Knight also gets Dark Souls comparisons a lot. I've never played Hollow Knight but I feel like it's pretty similar to this game? A world that's equal parts cute and bleak, attacks that come out fast and attack patterns that are fair, a little too much wandering around backtracking through empty areas for some peoples' tastes. Cool, glad we cleared that up. I'll play Hollow Knight at some point and see if my comparison was accurate. In the meantime, I'm glad I gave Death's Door a chance - it was recommended to me more than once and I nearly passed on it and I ended up enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would.

Next up: snek

The lack of map is a bad decision imo. It doesn't hurt that bad for most of the game, but the start of the game sucks because of the lack of map imo (like the very first parts, before you get to the garden), and it makes backtracking much more painful. I also wish there was a bigger variety of equipment you get, and that it was more creative. It felt like all the abilities were straight out of other games.

The story and setting were pretty fun though. Combat is alright. As far as 2021 Zeldalikes go, Unsighted is my game of choice (not sure if you played that one).

Paratroopa1 posted...

No really, why DO people compare this game to Dark Souls, though? And don't say that people don't do that, I've heard it from like three different people! Is it because this game has a dodge roll? Because it has a slightly melancholy vibe and grayscale aesthetics? Dark Souls didn't even invent those things! It's not like Dark Souls at all! There's no RPG elements, your attacks come out instantly and have no windup, and it's not frustrating and annoying to play. It has a crow!

I have not gotten around to Death's Door yet but the answer is "yes" to all of those things. "Soulslike" as a genre is mostly vibes-based. I know you hate Metroidvania as a term and will hate this answer too so, I'm sorry but it's true.

(also there are plenty of crows in Soulsbourne games. They are not as cute but FromSoft loves a good crow)

Not really a fan of the "Soulslike" genre either but it does seem to be a "mood" more than an actual gameplay style that elicits those comparisons in many cases

Dark Souls has a crow! Bloodborne, at least

Even the mood of Death's Door doesn't really remind me of Dark Souls that much, it's a little too cute and silly, the comparison feels so flimsy

Fromsoft may like crows but do you PLAY as a crow who holds a sword in its wings? I think not

she's a pretty important character but you sadly don't get to play as her

My easy shorthand for Soulslike is if it has a 'collect resources from your corpse' mechanic. But I haven't even played a proper Souls game yet so idk what a better identifier would be.

Anyway I really like Death's Door (and love Hollow Knight), glad it made its mark on you too. The presentation is top notch all around, I'm not always into isometric games but this one is beautiful from all angles and the score doesn't hurt! I think it strikes the perfect balance between whimsy and awe in its tone, and I always appreciate when there's obviously a lot of care put into the smallest details in games (one tiny example: when you slice a sign in two and then try to read it).

Paratroopa1 posted...

There's some postgame stuff to do, but because it would require me to go through all these areas again I couldn't really bring myself to do it.

FWIW I really like the postgame, it's not too long and it has a little bit of everything in terms of both gameplay and writing. I loved going back to places in postgame and going 'ahhhhh' when I realised the purpose of things I'd wondered about earlier on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu5ZGrijwAM

andylt posted...

My easy shorthand for Soulslike is if it has a 'collect resources from your corpse' mechanic. But I haven't even played a proper Souls game yet so idk what a better identifier would be.

Yeah, corpse runs, a stamina bar, high difficulty, and constant auto-saving are the gameplay factors for me, though not every game has them all.

Kenri posted...

Yeah, corpse runs, a stamina bar, high difficulty, and constant auto-saving are the gameplay factors for me, though not every game has them all.

Death's Door has like 0.5 of these haha

As you said initially, people just haven't played other games lol

minecraft is my favorite soulslike

NFUN posted...

minecraft is my favorite soulslike

holy shit

Paratroopa1 posted...

Even the mood of Death's Door doesn't really remind me of Dark Souls that much, it's a little too cute and silly, the comparison feels so flimsy

It's not quite the same, but I think maybe the disconnect is you're underestimating how crucial the darkly bizarre humor is to the Soulsbourne vibe. Which is understandable for people who bounce off Dark Souls for being too gross or dark! But I don't mean to relitigate the souls defender argument, just take it from me that Dark Souls is actually very silly. Again I can't compare to Death's Door but through the Hollow Knight comparison, the tone is more similar than it is different.

Death's Door doesn't need a map. If anything it would be lessened for it, because I'd spent my entire time looking at the map and not at where I'm going. Plus, the act of finding secrets is very different when there's no map to look off of.

I grew up in the late 80s. We didn't need maps then and we don't really need 'em now. They're just really nice to have.