Board 8 > just started house in fata morgana (ongoing spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

SeabassDebeste posted...

the bad end (#4) at the end of door 6 is also really clever. there's only one dialogue choice, but i'm pretty sure that you get the "hesitation" death by bringing up the menu to save there, right? if so, that's a really cool meta element. (if it was literally just counting the seconds, then that's a lot lamer.)

You also get it by waiting long enough

Still sweet

This next door is TOUGH to get through I a good way.

ah, before i forget - michel's brothers are still a loose end too!

yikes, pretty grim intro to door 7. nine years old and being used as a party favor...

thinking that morgana is WHG, but could be mistaken. in the flashback with mell's past self atm.

oh, there's a saintess too. maybe that is WHG? or is it possibly giselle...?

well i wasn't really expecting michel to actually be michelle. it's not a very impactful twisty emotionally

this story, door 7, though, is really hitting well

also, this is finally explaining a few things that were missing before

- the name aimee

- what the beast saw when WHG deservingly randomly stripped

- WHG possibly catching feelings when dancing with the maid

- why neither giselle nor the beast actually has see with michel/le b their storylines

so that does add satisfaction

The back end of Fata Morgana has some pacing issues but it's still sooooo good

I remember being stunned when I realized the story had the confidence not to reveal its actual protagonist until halfway through

i find it almost disconcerting how carefully this game is handling passivity in female characters, sexual assault, transgenderism, and body dysmorphia

like we're taking about a game that still likes titty shots of its leading lady

it's starting to look like it's possible that michel was possibly killed by his own brother didier??

i'm enjoying this chapter

a lot

and even find the story pacing

not so bad

and yet

this manner of dialogue boxes

is wearing on me...

book 7 is a weird one because it took so many of my predictions, told me i was wrong, and then went back and confirmed them

in any case, i think all the loose ends (other than the painting talking) are tied up

we got our beautiful emotional resolution (yet again) and this time it doesn't seem like it's about to get snatched from us right away

ending 5 with michel and the WHG as a couple was a cool one

not sure whether i should feel dread at this upcoming finale chapter - in some ways an epilogue!

man, so this section suddenly turned into phoenix wright, what?!

i'm super skeptical of this tone change - beginning to suspect maybe we wind up somehow causing morgana's death? this story ending with us saving morgana feels kinda insane given how it's gone so far.

Mmmm yes gimme those vicarious reactions

okay so some thoughts through doors 6-7 before we head off

- who the fuck comes up with all these creatively cruel storylines? doors 5-7 specifically have some almost comically sadistic events.

- really eager to see the connection between WHG and morgana, which i'd predicted, but which morgana denied (and which michel had accepted)

- again, i don't know that i'm the right one to speak about it, but the way this game uses trauma and cruelty to advance and bind its characters together is really impressive. rape-as-backstory can come off as exploitative (and the art for giselle can lean that way too) but for example, i loved how michel's threatening of giselle caused her ptsd... which then made michel recognize her as a kindred spirit.

- a weird reverse twist is that that wasn't the real giselle. i never really thought that giselle would feel that way, but i accepted it since the story usually unfold in the worst possible way. i wasn't that impressed with michel = michelle as a "twist'" but the pathos of the storyline really sold it to me - it wasn't about surprising me, it was about why michel is the way he is and why it's so amazing he hasn't gone the way of morgana.

- speaking of which, i love that morgana is so unable to understand michel. years alone with him, and she still can't get her head around his non-penchant for cursing the people who wronged him. give the dude a break, he's not buying!

- really just hoping nothing gets worse sure to door 8 after how optimistic door 7 ended. but i'm not gonna trust this game...

Fata Morgana is incredibly careful in its treatment of its characters, yeah. One of the reasons it resonates so strongly for some people.

a dialogue branch point! time to blab about our knowledge to mell and see if i can get myself killed for a bad end!

the tone in this section still feels wildly different from the game at large due to michel's dialogue and giselle's banter

aww, it's ending 0, a dead end instead of a "real" end.

that whole stretch before michel tells nell about morgana is pretty heart-wrenching. i don't think nell talks anything like a nine-year-old or whatever but the emotions expressed are all really honest and for that reason affecting

man, and now this confrontation with mell is resulting in a dialogue choice of stay with mell vs go after nell. for once i'm entirely lost. and after a fantastic scene, too. michel's combination of humor and frankness is pretty amazing

ive only been reading this topic, but I listed wanted to say reading your reactions has been great

thanks for the kind words

i'm living through mell's story now. we know this all so it's a retread, but it doesn't feel tedious. instead it feels truly sickening, the way he sees morgana, the way he perceives morgana right before the swordsman attacks her

i might have mentioned this, but morgana's storyline felt almost comically over the top in terms of cruelty. but now than that, it was by far the most abstract storyline, so it was easy for us to distance ourselves from it as it happened

but reliving it makes so much sense as the payoff to this storyline. seeing her through someone else's eyes really amps up the torturousness of it a lot more

it's crushing and kind of brilliant

so, i actually thought i'd be game-over-ing by not accompanying maria out of her meeting, but it instead resulted in a beautiful conversation with giselle which seemed to confirm she'll be disappearing

i saved it at night and switched to walking maria home (great character, hate the cheesecake character design) and... instead this is the path that resulted in death. cool!

and now we're being kidnapped by the swordsman - and indeed giselle is gone

swordsman not really loving pauline is sadness. living the connection between michel and the archangel.

and i'm cautiously hyped for seeing the swordsman's pov, though i realize as he said it'll probably change nothing - i'm not sure even from my pov i'll enjoy it much or that it'll be meaningful, since his storyline arguably had the least pathos to me

Jesus christ the part after this absolutely kills me.

And the expansion just twists the knife so much harder.

no one:

house at fata morgana: 22yo falling in love with a 12yo

ABORT ABORT ABORT

oh god the raid happened literally during morgana's birthday party? the timing on that just feels... too over the top at this point if it wasn't already told to us?

I wish the pacing had been stronger on the back half. By the time I reached the point where TC is at, I was in "I just want to see the ending already" mode.

If only they'd cut about 5,000 of Michel's "..." lines. The abundance of verbal pauses drove me nuts.

Side note: this topic makes me want to give the expansion content a go.

The expansion content makes up about 35% of the total playtime, it's absolutely critical.

finished the game last night

maybe it was overdose, and maybe it was pacing, and maybe it was the direction the story took, but i think that the story probably stopped being as compelling to me the moment giselle vanished from the investigation phase, after day 2 of chapter 8.

chapter 8 really felt like a phoenix wright game with the delightful banter, the great writing, and the mix of comedic and dramatic gravitas. giselle was a huge part of it. once she disappeared, a lot of the hope of the game disappeared, and in hindsight, a fair amount of the enjoyability of that chapter started slipping away as well

the rest of the eighth door is still good. the swordsman's utter lack of humanity just was not that compelling. now his dialogue and his perceptiveness and his relationship to michel (being the first to deem him an angel) was cool. but his storyline was kind of a drag.

jacopo's story is... er... well, i liked parts of it. it's theoretically pretty compelling. i like the twist of his identity quite a bit; the game never once tried to get us to sympathize with the original lord. but it sounds up being like the third door. i think i kind of understand him, but i was at a massive distance in the third door watching a trainwreck. i don't think we got any better understanding of the lord here - it tells us almost exactly what we learned in the third door. and since we have to force it out of jacopo anyway... eh.

perhaps one important reason that jacopo's story didn't hit quite as hard.... it didn't have a single character sprite or animation during it. the whole thing was just text on a screen. generally those segments read a little better, but what brings vns to life, and specifically in part makes chapter 8 more compelling then chapters 1 and 2, is the visual aspect. the lack of visual immersion, to me, lowered fhe investment level in this storyline

and to be fair - i was simply never going to be on board with the 22yo thirsting after a 12yo. at least the incest storyline is pointed out to be problematic, but this came out of nowhere and never had time to get addressed, so i just kind of was taken out of it from the getgo

still, i think michel "saving" morgana was an incredibly powerful scene.

the end of door 8 is where problems seem to begin. i think i could have taken two of the three grim things here:
- giselle vanishing from the story (and i understand why it was needed in some ways)
- morgana dying anyway in the flashback
- having the whole thing turn to shit and having to witness it

like, individually, any of these could have worked. but having all three to me want emotionally devastating; it was kind of numbing and fatiguing, which is not what the story should be trying to achieve. (i also mentioned a smaller point about the backstory including morgana's brothel literally getting raided during her birthday party, lol)

leaving flashback world, i think we earned a fair amount of the denouement we got. restoring morgana's face is pretty nice. but the WHG segment is a bit tedious; morgana (understandably) is kind of flat as she interacts with the souls she frees; and the randomness of the georges/didier stuff is a big "what?" - sadly that felt underdeveloped, unearned, and really poorly placed/timed. i might in time grow to appreciate it more in the abstract, but in the moment, it was wearisome and just too much.

similarly, waiting for giselle is kind of a nice idea, and i'm glad for the happy extremely distant ending... but i guess after already getting hit with like four endings, like in return of the king, i was too tired to appreciate it fully. (this is a bit of the risk of the ending to door 7 with michel and giselle coming together "early" - i feel like we already earned this moment before; getting it taken away for no clear reason and then restored just didn't feel rewarding to me)

i agree that the verbal pauses starting in about chapter 7 got a little out of hand, but overall as long as interesting stuff was happening, i was eating it all up - it was when my interest would flag that the pacing really felt like a true issue.

nonetheless, i really liked the game overall. it was atmospheric and emotionally captivating and instilled dread really well. and chapters 5 and 7 in particular really gave michel and giselle's characters and relationship beautiful depth as something to root for.

SeabassDebeste posted...

perhaps one important reason that jacopo's story didn't hit quite as hard.... it didn't have a single character sprite or animation during it. the whole thing was just text on a screen.

Yeah, I believe there were three segments where we got the text-only presentation, and each time it happened, it took me out of the story and made the pacing drag that much harder. IIRC the first one gave us some of Morgana's backstory, and I suppose the text-only approach is forgivable here because seeing the details may have spoiled things like her physical appearance and whatnot. But these segments felt cheap and lazy, just like the forest parts in NieR for PS3.

still, i think michel "saving" morgana was an incredibly powerful scene.

YES.

leaving flashback world, i think we earned a fair amount of the denouement we got. restoring morgana's face is pretty nice. but the WHG segment is a bit tedious; morgana (understandably) is kind of flat as she interacts with the souls she frees; and the randomness of the georges/didier stuff is a big "what?" - sadly that felt underdeveloped, unearned, and really poorly placed/timed. i might in time grow to appreciate it more in the abstract, but in the moment, it was wearisome and just too much.

I liked Morgana's cold attitude toward the Big 3. Most stories would've shoehorned in some warm, cathartic forgiveness, but Morgana clings to her grudges, and this stuck me as genuine. Forgiveness is a complicated thing, even when it absolutely needs to happen.

nonetheless, i really liked the game overall. it was atmospheric and emotionally captivating and instilled dread really well. and chapters 5 and 7 in particular really gave michel and giselle's characters and relationship beautiful depth as something to root for.

Yeah, it's unique. Far from perfect, but there's no experience out there quite like it. Structurally, it's a mess--it starts as a frame tale/short story collection before digging hard into backstory and then re-exploring backstory in redundant detail. Every segment overstays its welcome, yet I feel like there wasn't enough content in the story. When we finally get to explore the house, it's disappointing to see that not every room contains a tale from the past. And considering that somewhere around 5+ hours of the actual story could've easily been cut/trimmed, I wonder how much better this one could've been if another round of revisions had been made to the script.

SeabassDebeste posted...

jacopo's story is... er... well, i liked parts of it. it's theoretically pretty compelling. i like the twist of his identity quite a bit; the game never once tried to get us to sympathize with the original lord. but it sounds up being like the third door. i think i kind of understand him, but i was at a massive distance in the third door watching a trainwreck. i don't think we got any better understanding of the lord here - it tells us almost exactly what we learned in the third door. and since we have to force it out of jacopo anyway... eh.

perhaps one important reason that jacopo's story didn't hit quite as hard.... it didn't have a single character sprite or animation during it. the whole thing was just text on a screen. generally those segments read a little better, but what brings vns to life, and specifically in part makes chapter 8 more compelling then chapters 1 and 2, is the visual aspect. the lack of visual immersion, to me, lowered fhe investment level in this storyline

Well buddy do I have good news for you.

https://youtu.be/NyUX0eT8xtQ

I'm glad you enjoyed it overall. Fata Morgana is probably the best story I've ever read; and the characters, story and music and still fresh in my mind even today. The final ending scene of Michel and Giselle meeting again is probably one of my favorite endings ever, it really hit for me.

plasmabeam posted...

I liked Morgana's cold attitude toward the Big 3. Most stories would've shoehorned in some warm, cathartic forgiveness, but Morgana clings to her grudges, and this stuck me as genuine. Forgiveness is a complicated thing, even when it absolutely needs to happen.

i think morgana's reaction was appropriate for sure - those scenes just kind of felt like a drag, no doubt because i was beginning to get a little impatient, and was a bit fed up because the preceding events had been so grim. but yeah, with the distance of a day or two, it's already looking a little better in my memory!

GANON1025 posted...

I'm glad you enjoyed it overall. Fata Morgana is probably the best story I've ever read; and the characters, story and music and still fresh in my mind even today. The final ending scene of Michel and Giselle meeting again is probably one of my favorite endings ever, it really hit for me.

that's fair! for me, giselle disappearing for the last segment of the game was kind of a bummer that took some wind out of my sails. but i was happy in the end to see them reunited.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Well buddy do I have good news for you.

https://youtu.be/NyUX0eT8xtQ

so on this note - i have the switch version, which i believe comes with extra content - where should i start there?

SeabassDebeste posted...

i think morgana's reaction was appropriate for sure - those scenes just kind of felt like a drag, no doubt because i was beginning to get a little impatient, and was a bit fed up because the preceding events had been so grim. but yeah, with the distance of a day or two, it's already looking a little better in my memory!

that's fair! for me, giselle disappearing for the last segment of the game was kind of a bummer that took some wind out of my sails. but i was happy in the end to see them reunited.

so on this note - i have the switch version, which i believe comes with extra content - where should i start there?

I have the Switch version physical special edition sealed for collection reasons, but assuming it's the same menus as the PS4 version, I think just do all the additional content in the exact order that appears on the menu?

There's two actual VNs in the expansion, the large Morgana expansion and the shorter voice acted "Epilogue" expansion. The former looks just like the regular game and the latter....will be obviously different as soon as you boot it up.

And then there's a LOT of short stories included as well in one of the menus. Do not skimp on these, a lot of them are stupendous.

Truth be told there's a lot of game left.

welp, let's check out this requiem

requiem so far doesn't seem particularly essential. it's not bad, but it feels a little long since we knew everything already going in

in the brothel now, and jacopo catching feelings for morgana is still utterly creepy

feels kind of weird and redundant overall but it's not entirely unpleasant. this does feel like a standalone but a lot of it feels like recap

I felt the same about Requiem myself. Took me a while to read through all of it because it felt mostly stuff we already knew from the main story

so this whole requiem so far has felt low-stakes (almost by definition) and thus fairly tedious. i am vaguely enjoying some character interactions, but the tedium outweighs must of the enjoyment at the moment. morgana's sharp tongue is quite surprising and probably the highlight there

but morgana flipping out at ceren and then breaking down with ceren and jacopo is by far the most compelling thing that had happened this whole add-on so far. the emotional honesty and the lashing out and the healing - all of that felt like it came from the main game. the good parts of the main game.

up, still intend to finish this even if it's slow-going!

thank god the brothel attack has finally happened. jacopo thirsting over the 11yo was killing me

not sure we needed barnier to have that long of a dating monologue as his throat was literally already cut and he was in the process of being beheaded lmao

or ceren as a character at all

but, this part is at least well paced!

moving into part two

not sure what story is left to tell, or if jacopo continued to be our POV - we'll see

man that was a long interlude about ceren. reminds me of how "wtf?" the fujmara backstory was

enjoying this segment of rulership a lot more. it moves and i'm not bogged down by tons of dialogue

survivng gratien while being poisoned feels like plot armor though

Part 2 of Requieum is definitely a lot more interesting than the first. Part 1 did suffer a bit from "let's draw out a ton of what we already know", while the second chunk had a lot more room to variate.

I also enjoyed the much shorter second DLC even more which is a very, very different thing from either the main game or Requieum. I don't know if that's a hot take or not?

Unironically the best content out of all of it is the extensive short story collection, though.

away from home this week, but totally should've brought my switch since there's a bit of downtime!

soon(?)