Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 64: Mos Def's Black on Both Sides (+ Hybrid Theory results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, May 29 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Mos Def - Black on Both Sides track list:
1. Fear Not of Man
2. Hip Hop
3. Love
4. Ms. Fat Booty
5. Speed Law
6. Do It Now
7. Got
8. Umi Says
9. New World Water
10. Rock N Roll
11. Know That
12. Climb
13. Brooklyn
14. Habitat
15. Mr. *****
16. Mathematics
17. May-December

User Cycle:
5/29: VeryInsane (Japanese Breakfast - Jubilee)
6/5: CasanovaZelos (Portishead - Third)
6/12: Seanchan
6/19: Giggsalot
6/26: RyoCaliente
7/3: darkx
7/10: neonreaper
7/17: Great_Paul
7/24: jcgamer107
7/31: ChichiriMuyo
8/7: BlueCrystalTear
8/14: MetalmindStats
8/21: HBJDubs
8/28: Raetsel_Lapin
9/4: TheArkOfTurus
9/11: Steiner
9/18: Snake5555555555
9/25: Jesse_Custer
10/2: ZaziGuado
10/9: firefdr
10/16: Johnbobb

Linkin Park - Hybrid Theory results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
Seanchan (14)
ZeroSignal620 (16)
firefdr (20)
Raetsel_Lapin (22)
Janus5k (22)
HBJDubs (24)
CasanovaZelos (26)
VeryInsane (26)
azuarc (26)
Steiner (30)
illuminatusbubu (30)
Lopen (32)
Johnbobb (34)
neonreaper (36)
Snake5555555555 (54)

General Album Comments

CasanovaZelos: Linkin Park is a band I have always struggled to take seriously. Their music feels like someone trying way too hard to be cool, and the rapping sections really do not help. I feel like this might upset some, but they exist in the same mental sphere as Spice Girls for me, very much a product of their time.

Yet, there's something that occasionally brings me back to their sound, and I think it is for the same reason Spice occasionally draws me back - there are few albums that capture their own time like this one, an unintended relic that paints a vibrant picture of a certain era. For better or worse, Hybrid Theory is compellingly itself. My point of comparison is usually Donnie Darko - drowning in young angst, but if you can only remember what it was like to be an angsty teenager, you can feel how effortlessly this works as a reflection.

Snake5555555555: This album nearly brings me to tears man - so goddamn nostalgic. I would play this album on a loop while playing Runescape, and I still know every word and every beat from the top to the bottom. Sure, Meteora's better, but there's just something so raw and emotional about this one too - they really did the whole rap metal better than anyone, and that's because they infused it with accessible pop sensibilities that gave it such a broad reaching appeal.

azuarc: Oh hey, it's an album I can rank more or less off my head AND that I actually saw the topic for in time.

Hybrid Theory is a special album to me for a few reasons. The first is that it was the introduction to one of my favorite bands, obviously. The second is that it was one of the first albums that came out and that I latched onto after leaving home for college, meaning I didn't make the decision to buy it with any approbation or influence from friends. And the third is that college was the time when I genuinely felt the effects of depression, and one of the few things that helped with that, even if it sometimes felt more like an echo chamber, was music. The teenage-y angst and rage of Hybrid Theory suited me perfectly back then. A few of the tracks don't resonate the way they used to, and I always focused more on the sound than on the lyrics anyhow, but for all that I basically never listen to "real" music in lieu of VGM these days, this was a great excuse to revisit those feelings 20 years later.

I almost didn't buy the album. After One Step Closer debuted, I looked at the album cover in the store and passed because, I thought, "They look like a rock version of a boy band." To be fair, if you look at the picture, you might see where I'm coming from, but when Crawling came out a month later, I said fuck it and went in. The whole album was amazing, but the first track I took note of was In the End, which of course, ended up being the third major single. (And at some point Papercut was released, too? I never heard that one on the radio, though.)

In ranking these, Crawling was always going to be the wild card. A tremendously popular song when it came out, and then massively hated on for years after as emblematic of the band and youthful rage of the early 00's, I've always had a fond place for it, but I wasn't sure where it would land. I knew the other singles -- including Papercut, which has always been a pet favorite -- would land high, but would I put Crawling above, below, or distanced by B-sides? I absolutely adore the Reanimation version of the track, but I ultimate landed on third behind In the End.

However, first place was never in question. Pushing Me Away has always been my favorite. A very unheralded track, and I'm curious to see where it finishes in the overall rankings. Everything in the second half of the list could be reshuffled (except Cure for the Itch,) so I apologize to the With You and By Myself fans. I went with a very quick reaction because I've listened to these songs probably hundreds of times...just not in the last decade.

Seanchan: My feelings on this one are complicated.

I haven't listened to Hybrid Theory in probably 15 years. I was a big fan at the time. I remember listening to this as I was touring colleges with my parents. It was a pretty big deal of an album. Also loved (at the time) the remix album and the follow up (Meteora). Other than some of the singles after that I fell away from the band.

This is very much a product of its time. The band may have evolved (not for me to say) but this album is so early 2000s Nu Metal it's crazy.

I don't know what someone who has no familiarity with this album would think. Or if this would still resonate with a modern teenager. Listening to this as a grown ass man though, it's kind of cringe-y bad? All that teenage angst, the screamy vocals, the "cool" rapping...

I've said this before with Toxicity, but Nu Metal is nothing I want to go back to. Korn, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, etc. all shit I'm embarrassed that I used to enjoy. There's a small amount of nostalgic love but it aint much.

neonreaper: Great album. Having a hard time really posting my thoughts, but the rankings are easy enough

firefdr: I used to adore Linkin Park during my teenage years. This was the very first album I purchased for myself and one I would listen to over and over again.
Linkin Park was also the first band I've ever seen live, funnily enough.
It still remains to this day one of my favorite bands and frequently appears in my Spotify wrapped.
While this is not my favourite album from them, it still holds a very special place.

Seanchan: As usual, my final listen tends to moderate my opinions somewhat. There's stuff here that I still do like, especially some of the beats/instrumentation, but a lot of Chester's screamy vocals are offputting (to me, in the year 2022).

As an album, I think this is likely objectively better/more interesting than my subjective opinions that are colored by my history. ...If that makes any sense? I struggled trying to figure out where to rank the album, with the conflicting thoughts of "I wouldn't really want to listen to this again" versus "but this is kind of better than Other Album".

Lopen: I've always liked Linkin Park, even well after it stopped becoming cool to do so. Everything on this Album I've listened to many many times. Cure for the Itch was the only one I'd ever skip. I don't really dwell on the lyrics too much. Like I get it, and I've been on the border of depression a few times in my life so I can say they relate enough to things I've felt that I do feel authentic, not pandering to make moneys. But yeah I'm not gonna say that's why I'm into it at all, it's not like my identity or anything.

I just like the unique sound. Chester's vocal sound is very distinctive and enjoyable as long as he's not getting too screamy (which is usually not the case in their songs-- screaming in moderation is fine) and I love how Shinoda's rapping complements it. I'm a sucker for the use of the synthy keyboard stuff-- big part of the reason Crawling is one of my more liked songs and why I'm one of the few to rank runaway highly in here. The weaker songs for me tend to lean into the rap element harder and marginalize the keyboard, generally. Meteora is a bit better overall probably. I really need to listen to their last three albums at some point as the last album I listened to was A Thousand Suns.

General Album Comments Continued

BlueCrystalTear: Well... I didn't particularly enjoy my preliminary listen. I've never heard this album before but I most certainly heard (and subsequently forgot about) a song of theirs back during their heyday.

Janus5k: Only ever owned Meteora as a teenager, though naturally I've heard a bunch of these as singles and in various other places. The screaming is hit-or-miss, but even putting nostalgia aside the top few tracks are still really good.

I'd never actually heard Pushing Me Away before - the pre-chorus reminds me of Numb, which was always one of my favorites from Meteora. Surprisingly "clean" considering the rest of the album, great closer and a pleasant surprise.

Hybrid Theory track ranking

12. Cure for the Itch (Track #11)
Score: 32 (Average Rank: 10.87/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#7)
Biggest Detractor(s): azuarc, neonreaper, Raetsel_Lapin, firefdr, ZeroSignal620, Lopen, HBJDubs, Steiner (#12)

firefdr: The only track I don't really care much about. While I wouldn't consider it bad, it was the only one I sometimes skipped while listening to the album.

11. Be Myself (Track #7)
Score: 62 (Average Rank: 9.13/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Janus5k, illuminatusbubu (#12)

neonreaper: Great song, love the pre-chorus (is that a thing?), don't care much for the actual chorus.

firefdr: I related so much to this song during the time I was depressed and down. The beginning still gives me the chills.

10. Forgotten (Track #10)
Score: 69 (Average Rank: 8.4/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Steiner (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#12)

neonreaper: Reminds me a bit of By Myself, and a bit of Points of Authority, where there's a catchy part of the song that I REALLY like but the singing part of the chorus doesn't really land at all for me.

firefdr: A song that is pretty much forgotten, it was rarely played live. It's a pretty catchy tune too.

9. Runaway (Track #6)
Score: 83 (Average Rank: 7.53/12)
Biggest Fan(s): illuminatusbubu (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper, ZeroSignal620, Steiner (#10)

neonreaper: I kinda like the song but it makes me think of Gravity Kills (better) or like some generic Korn/Limp Bizkit song (worse).

firefdr: Great chorus. Fun song.

8. Crawling (Track #5)
Score: 101 (Average Rank: 6.67/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Lopen, HBJDubs (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): VeryInsane (#12)

neonreaper: The crooning style parts are just not for me. I know the material is pure but it just feels like its pandering and it's a shame. But you gotta make a few bucks so I get it, and there's plenty of stuff to like on the album.

firefdr: This one is almost entirely sung by Chester. While I don't dislike the original screaming version, this one really shines in Reanimation.

7. With You (Track #3)
Score: 104 (Average Rank: 6.67/12)
Biggest Fan(s): firefdr (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#12)

neonreaper: I love the 90's style industrial stuff in the background. Like God Lives Underwater and Two with 00's style vocals.

firefdr: COME OOOOOOOOON! Ever since first listening to this song live, it took the top stop and never looked back. It's so full of energy and gets me pumped up.

6. A Place for My Head (Track #9)
Score: 107 (Average Rank: 6.07/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Steiner (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, Lopen (#11)

neonreaper: I like the song but the good stuff isn't as good as the songs above it. I do like the chorus better than a lot of the stuff above it, though!

firefdr: Great track, great chorus. A song that is much better live than in the album.

5. One Step Closer (Track #2)
Score: 114 (Average Rank: 5.6/12)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#9)

neonreaper: Banging single. It lacks any sort of nuance but it's great for it, and a bit relatable even if we don't walk around feeling like this 24/7 the way we did as young people. Probably heard this song more than I needed to but happy to hear it these days.

firefdr: The song that started it all. When basically all of the music I consumed came from MTV, this was the one that introduced me to the band.

4. Pushing Me Away (Track #12)
Score: 131 (Average Rank: 5.27/12)
Biggest Fan(s): azuarc, Lopen (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): firefdr (#11)

neonreaper: I like the cascade guitar sound. Much of the album uses it, but it really fits a final track like this, along with Chester's vocals.

firefdr: This is a pretty good song to end the album with. While it sits near the bottom, I enjoy it quite a bit.

3. Points of Authority (Track #4)
Score: 136 (Average Rank: 4.8/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, illuminatusbubu (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#11)

neonreaper: "F-f-f-f-forfeit the game" that part always got my so hype. I wish the chorus was a bit better. Again there's a bit of God Lives Underwater in the music here.

firefdr: Love the guitar, love the turntables in this one. The Reanimation version is even better.

2. Papercut (Track #1)
Score: 154 (Average Rank: 4.13/12)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper, ZeroSignal620, Johnbobb, VeryInsane (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#12)

neonreaper: Killer opening tune. Easy to enjoy, gives you the strong points of the band, classic opener and it wasn't played to death like the other singles.

firefdr: What an amazing opening track. The rapping is great, Chester's chorus is really fun to sing along to. A great song and an even greater music video to go with it.

ZeroSignal620: It's rare that the opening song on a band's debut album would be the best thing they've done, but Linkin Park pulls that off with Papercut. It not only sets the stage for a solid album, but also sets the stage for a run that's generated 7 albums across two decades.

1. In the End (Track #8)
Score: 182 (Average Rank: 2.87/12)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Seanchan, HBJDubs, Steiner, Janus5k (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#8)

neonreaper: Classic, nothing really wrong with this song. So straightforward with how depressed these guys are/were. I like how often they don't blame others - this is so authentic (and I'd say this even if dude was still alive).

firefdr: Ah, the classic. It hits so hard now. A song that is pretty much flawless. I remember learning the piano part in the intro/ending. Good times.

Seanchan on his picks for this week:

Linkin Park got me to thinking back to my teenage years, and so I've nominated 3 pop-punk albums from that era. I suppose it's only a matter of degrees if these albums hold up better than Hybrid Theory. I'd say they're less angsty and more fun, even if that's only in tone.

I'm not going to say too much about the first 2 as I'm sure everyone has heard at least the big singles. My love for both these bands extends to at least 3-4 albums but I've got with their biggest release for obvious reasons.

Sum 41 - All Killer, No Filler - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMX2lPum_pg
Blink 182 - Enema of the State - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7l5ZeVVoCA

My last nom is a little more obscure, as their big hit from this album was a cover of The Boys of Summer. And to be honest, this album is the entirety of what I've ever listened to from them. But for whatever reason, it's stuck with me and continues to be an album I go back to.

The Ataris - So Long, Astoria - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rJShgOe-9k

Little surprised the vote is so overwhelming so far!

I "won" the deviation again?!?

Did a first listen to Mos Def. This is going to be a tough one for me this week. Not my favorite genre, long in length, and numerous of songs. Plus, there's no skits that I can just throw to the bottom of the pile.

Was this a big and/or important album at the time? Is it considered a classic?

Seanchan posted...

Was this a big and/or important album at the time? Is it considered a classic?

I don't know how big it was in the popular sphere, but it is in the top 1000 on Acclaimed Music, so it's at least held up as important by critics.

bump

finally, something i'm motivated to (re-)listen to! it's been a while

could well be a top five rap album of all time for me - not a lot of records that manage to be sonically beautiful, lyrically poignant, and great fun too

Seanchan posted...

Was this a big and/or important album at the time? Is it considered a classic?

It was extremely acclaimed, pretty much cemented Mos Def as one of the best rappers of that time, and was one of the albums that really transitioned between the 90s and 2000s socially conscious rap

up

I don't have confidence in my rankings for this album but I'll get them up in a bit.

Second listen down. Gotta get this done earlier this week...

I have to say, I've enjoyed this album much more than I expected so far. I'll give me usual complaint that it's too long, but I'm actually thinking this won't be quite as difficult to rank as something like Folklore. There's a lot of variety here, in terms of beats and lyrical content, that I've been able to get a decent feel for the individual tracks.

bump

1: Climb
2: Brooklyn
3: Hip Hop
4: Do It Now
5: UMI Says
6: Fear Not of Man
7: Mathematics
8: Ms. Fat Booty
9: Got
10: Habitat
11: New World Water
12: Speed Law
13: May-December
14: Know That
15: Rock N Roll
16: Mr. *****
17: Love

I'm going to be visiting family for a bit this weekend and likely won't be back until Sunday night, so the deadline will be sometime that evening.

1. Do It Now
2. New World Water
3. Mr. *****
4. Ms. Fat Booty
5. Habitat
6. Love
7. Speed Law
8. Know That
9. Mathematics
10. Hip Hop
11. Brooklyn
12. Got
13. Rock N Roll
14. May-December
15. Fear Not of Man
16. Climb
17. Umi Says

This is a good album. I liked it less on my 3rd listen, but that's a product of me listening out of order, as it kills the flow it otherwise has between the songs.

bump

up

Sadly i don't think I'll be able to relisten to this in time, so I'll do this from memory

1. Mathematics
2. Ms. Fat Booty
3. Climb
4. Umi Says
5. Speed Law
6. Do It Now
7. Know That
8. New World Water
9. Fear Not of Man
10. Hip Hop
11. May-December
12. Mr. N****
13. Love
14. Habitat
15. Rock n Roll
16. Brooklyn
17. Got

So many classics here, christ. What a record.

Hip Hop
Ms. Fat Booty
Know That
Habitat
UMI Says
New World Water
Rock N Roll
Speed Law
Climb
May-December
Brooklyn
Love
Got
Mathematics
Mr. *****
Do It Now
Fear Not Of Man

1. Rock N Roll
2. Mathematics
3. Ms. Fat Booty
4. Mr. *****
5. UMI Says
6. New World Water
7. Speed Law
8. Hip Hop
9. Know That
10. Love
11. Fear Not of Man
12. Brooklyn
13. Got
14. Do It Now
15. Climb
16. May-December
17. Habitat

Front to back, easily one of the expertly written and crafted rap records ever put out.

Reminder that you have until later this evening to submit.

I am currently eating dinner with my family, then I have an hour drive home in which I will listen to Black On Both Sides again and submit my list. So, let's give a deadline of when I post my list, which should be around 9 central time.

I haven't revisited this album since a first listen nearly a decade ago, and I'm so happy I did. This may clock in at 70 minutes, but it breezes by due to its cohesion. Each track feels like a movement in one epic piece, but also distinct enough to stand apart.

My ranking:
Ms. Fat Booty
Mathematics
Umi Says
Hip Hop
New World Water
Speed Law
Mr. *****
Do It Now
Got
Habitat
Love
Rock N Roll
May-December
Brooklyn
Know That
Climb
Fear Not of Man