Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 1 - The Phantom Menace

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's a votal legend.

[2] chang: SBell, Chris, (Lopen)
[2] Chris: Corrik, Sultan
[2] Kirby: Plum, Lopen
[2] Plum: Scare, Sheep
[0] Isquen: (Lopen)
[0] Lopen: (Isquen)
[0] Death: (Sheep)

Day ends Tuesday at 7pm Eastern, roughly 29.5 hours from now.

I found a Kirby wall from the one remaining topic of last game. Compare:

Kirby321 posted...

Tidus just seems super inconsistent. Not to mention he was championing Lopen's death yesterday was some bizarre plan, but today he's prioritizing Han's head instead. The only thing that makes me remotely hesitate is that Ben was so, so certain that Tidus was town.

Lopen is just kinda process of elimination, in a way. I think it makes sense for Tidus and Lopen to be a Mafia pair if Tidus flips Mafia (though if it's the other way around, I'm not sure what to make of that).

IGCD I just think did jack this entire day. But three or four people said he was town, so maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding him.

Also, I don't think Sbell and IGCD are both scum. Seems foolish to not band together to kill Han and instead go for King separately, one after the other, so I doubt they're both simultaneously scum, though I feel better about Sbell than IGCD.

I'm also not entirely sure what plum's presence has been these past two days. So I'm also on the fence about what to think of him. Same with Red.

I fully believe changmas' vig claim, and your breakdown on Tidus just seemed too genuine to fake.

By process of elimination, I believe Han has to be town if Tidus is scum, and I think Tidus is scum, so... that tracks.

Red I have no clue about. Death I could lean town on, but he's kinda in the same vein as Sbell right now if you ask me.

This wall has way more actual thoughts and analysis. There is a lot of thought put into this wall. There are ideas and logical inference.

Kirbys walls this game have been devoid of that

tbh kirby posted walls like that all last game, that's just his posting style.

and i think it's a bit unfair to compare a wall of thoughts from the cumulative experience of 12 topics to the first 300 posts of topic 1. maybe i'll go back and look at what he had to say on Day 1 of that game, but I don't remember it being substantially different from this

Kirby321 posted...

As for the players I'm familiar with, I always distrust Ben. Nothing new there. He's doing his usual tricks and traps, which... idk, does scum Ben usually do that? Been a very long time since I played Mafia with Ben before the last game.

Kirby321 posted...

though it's interesting to note that the only person to claim a Pokmon flavor (as per Ben's trap post) was Red.
... But this flavor discussion is pointless.

See it's interesting you read my fish as a trick or a trap. Do you really not think I was trying to legitimately townclear the first person that claimed?

changmas posted...

tbh kirby posted walls like that all last game, that's just his posting style.

...

It has nothing to do with him posting walls

It's that his walls this game have been devoid of content and last game they were usually insightful

plum selectively reading my comment to ignore the second half which provided justification for the exact thing he took issue with

I wouldnt say Kirby's posts seem devoid of content to me. I mean there is a lot of "I dont really know if this person is scum or town yet...", but he also commented on EVERY player. So I dont expect anyone to have a read on every player. I'd like him to answer why he felt the need to comment on every player though

To put it another way Chang,

Pretend you are scum who knows you have a particular style of posting, but doesn't actually have the ability to generate genuine insight

You can

1. Change your posting style dramatically
2. Imitate your posting style but instead of having substance it will be much fluffier

I think Kirby is going with #2 right now.

Could I be wrong? Of course, but Kirby is massively failing #TheVibeCheck

PunishedBen posted...

I wouldnt say Kirby's posts seem devoid of content to me. I mean there is a lot of "I dont really know if this person is scum or town yet...", but he also commented on EVERY player. So I dont expect anyone to have a read on every player. I'd like him to answer why he felt the need to comment on every player though

Hell, I'd like to see anyone (plum especially) attempt to comment on every single player thus far in a way which isn't "devoid of content". I know I couldn't do it.

Chang being unusually aggressive. Not sure if town tell or scum tell

changmas posted...

Hell, I'd like to see anyone (plum especially) attempt to comment on every single player thus far in a way which isn't "devoid of content". I know I couldn't do it.

That is why I don't do jt?

Kirby decided of his own volition to make a post where he outlined so many people he didn't have any reads on.

Why did he do that?

masterplum posted...

To put it another way Chang,

Pretend you are scum who knows you have a particular style of posting, but doesn't actually have the ability to generate genuine insight

You can

1. Change your posting style dramatically
2. Imitate your posting style but instead of having substance it will be much fluffier

I think Kirby is going with #2 right now.

Could I be wrong? Of course, but Kirby is massively failing #TheVibeCheck

How much insight could Town Kirby have right now? You have constructed a set of two options through which you could call him scum either way. If he didn't post walls, you could argue he changed his posting style dramatically and therefore he's scum. Now you're arguing he's still posting walls but doesn't have enough insight. No matter what he did you could call him scum.

masterplum posted...

Kirby decided of his own volition to make a post where he outlined so many people he didn't have any reads on.

Why did he do that?

That's just like, his thing.

changmas posted...

How much insight could Town Kirby have right now?

masterplum posted...

Why did he do that?

And of course I am constructing a scenario where Kirby is scum either way. It's why I think he is scum! If I thought there were alternative explanations I wouldn't be voting for him!

in your mind, how would town kirby be acting right now? what sort of posting would he do?

I need to get back to work. I feel like chang being this obstinate is a town tell but it doesn't make me want to continue this conversation

changmas posted...

in your mind, how would town kirby be acting right now? what sort of posting would he do?

He would be posting smaller walls that mostly contained actual inference rather than cliff note summaries

you just admitted that no matter what he did you would call him scum! what kind of reasoning is that?

I think its extremely disingenuous to compare someones walls at the end of a game where they had a super strong scanning role to less than 24 hours into day 1

I will defend all players on day 1. Even plum. Maybe.

changmas posted...

I will defend all players on day 1. Even plum. Maybe.

oh meeeeee, me me me. I want some of that sweet defense

masterplum posted...

Like this is a pointless paragraph. In the last game kirbys notes were strong. This feels like a paragraph that is written for no reason other than to write a paragraph

To be fair, I had a busted third-party role to help me zero-in on who was scum and who was town, and the lynches + claims last game worked out so perfectly for me that I had most of the game figured out until it came down to the Scare + Mzero 50/50. And that was just me making smart use of my powers rather than my actual scumhunting abilities. As much I wish I had those same powers, now I have to rely on nothing but my intuition.

... Which is also why I was super wary of so many of y'all putting me on the good vibes list. You guys do realize I was hard carried by my role last game, right?

I also missed the entire first half of Day 1 last game because I totally forgot the game had even started. I didn't have my bearings until Day 2 when I got my first pseudo-scans. I'd like to not be useless on Day 1 this time around. Although I understand you think my posts are fluffy, surely comparing my Day 1 posts in this game against my play from the entirety of last game is an unfair metric, no?

And yet, I admire this conviction. This is very different from how you played last game, where you played passively and paranoid. So I'm willing to believe you're town rather than scum. I just don't agree with your reasoning.

changmas posted...

in your mind, how would town kirby be acting right now? what sort of posting would he do?

Shorter. Keep it to where the reads actually are.

Also Kirby may as well have been scum last game

1. He needed to stay alive
2. He had knowledge of who most of the scum were due to his ability being overpowered

Playing similarly to last game isn't a town tell at all

Obellisk posted...

oh meeeeee, me me me. I want some of that sweet defense

Okay last two times you asked me to do this for you, you were scum.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


That's rich coming from someone who admitted that posting filler jokes is more town-like than actual analysis.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


And indeed, the only "insightful read" you've contributed until Plum and Lopen voted for me was this:

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


And I'm the inconclusive one.

Lopen posted...
Shorter. Keep it to where the reads actually are.

Also Kirby may as well have been scum last game

1. He needed to stay alive
2. He had knowledge of who most of the scum were due to his ability being overpowered

Playing similarly to last game isn't a town tell at all

it's not a scum tell either. my entire point is that this is just his playstyle and it's not alignment defining imo.

just like how red being grumpy, mzero playing in a different timezone, plum being overwhelmed by player count, and

Death typing
like this

aren't alignment defining. that's just the method by which Kirby chooses to participate.

PunishedBen posted...

Okay last two times you asked me to do this for you, you were scum.

well it's a good thing I'm asking chang, the guy who said he will unequivocally defend everyone day 1.

who wants to attack SBell? I'm ready to defend

In any case, I'm more interested in Lopen's antics. Answer me honestly, Lopen, are you actually a Gladiator?

oh before we continue.

##unvote

he's just not hitting that scum vibe.

fucking post 63...

PunishedBen posted...

See it's interesting you read my fish as a trick or a trap. Do you really not think I was trying to legitimately townclear the first person that claimed?

Didn't you literally admit that Sultan fell for your trap by talking about flavor? Or am I misunderstanding the posts?

I get the feeling even you didn't believe there were any Town Pokmon. Because if your flavor was a Pokmon, I think it'd totally be in your nature to post immediately afterward and town-clear yourself as a humorous way to diffuse the whole flavor discussion.
(Or idk I would totally do that at the very least because it would be funny, but then again, I wouldn't have thought the lack of Pokmon to be eerie if my own flavor was a Pokmon)

... You know, thinking about it, I think I like chang's initial reaction to the flavor even more now. If he was scum, surely he'd be aware of his scummates' flavors. I don't think we were told how many scum there are, but the odds of not a single one of them being Pokmon seems low, assuming there's at least 4 of them (since that's how many there were last game, and we have a lot more players this time). I hate using flavor arguments, but chang's reaction felt pretty organic (probably moreso because I had the same reaction).

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Shoot, I'm a little dense. Reading it again, I did not realize you were mocking ViolentAbacus's post. I genuinely thought you were stating your own thoughts there.

I was wondering which post you were referring to when talking about his content twigging you. Of course it's the one I remembered out of context. Derp.

I retract that point against you. I still don't think you're necessarily townie, even though I understand your argument better now regarding "inconclusiveness". You still haven't offered any thoughts on anyone else besides me, ViolentAbacus, and chang (assuming your post about agreeing that Lopen is Gladiator was a joke).

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's a votal legend.

[2] chang: SBell, Chris, (Lopen)
[2] Chris: Corrik, Sultan
[2] Kirby: Plum, Lopen
[2] Plum: Scare, Sheep
[0] Isquen: (Lopen)
[0] Lopen: (Isquen)
[0] Death: (Sheep)

Day ends Tuesday at 7pm Eastern, roughly 29.5 hours from now.

Also I don't agree with any of these lynch candidates. I may suspect Lopen a lot, but I have reason to believe he may be Town. But I have trouble understanding his angle, and I'd like to keep him alive for just one more day to understand his motives.

So I'm going to lead a different discussion. Tbh, I don't feel totally good about this one, and I'm going to feel awful if he flips town considering he didn't get to play much at all last game, but...

##Vote: Sheep

I don't like your interactions with Plum. I don't believe you're making the right call here.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Quoted from the last part of the wall:

Kirby321 posted...

I quite liked Scare's tactic from last game of making everyone compile a ranking and justify everything, and although it's Day 1, I feel like this analysis has given me a better grasp on what's happening today than when I opened the topic this morning (to 111 new posts geez). I don't have any strong scum reads yet, but I do think Death is Town. I feel good about Sultan, too, but Death is giving me very good vibes overall.

Kirby321 posted...

Didn't you literally admit that Sultan fell for your trap by talking about flavor? Or am I misunderstanding the posts?

I get the feeling even you didn't believe there were any Town Pokmon. Because if your flavor was a Pokmon, I think it'd totally be in your nature to post immediately afterward and town-clear yourself as a humorous way to diffuse the whole flavor discussion.
(Or idk I would totally do that at the very least because it would be funny, but then again, I wouldn't have thought the lack of Pokmon to be eerie if my own flavor was a Pokmon)

... You know, thinking about it, I think I like chang's initial reaction to the flavor even more now. If he was scum, surely he'd be aware of his scummates' flavors. I don't think we were told how many scum there are, but the odds of not a single one of them being Pokmon seems low, assuming there's at least 4 of them (since that's how many there were last game, and we have a lot more players this time). I hate using flavor arguments, but chang's reaction felt pretty organic (probably moreso because I had the same reaction).

The trap you referred to in that post, and the one I am referring to, is when I said the first one to claim a Pokemon flavor is town and Red raised his hand.

Agree on changmas though. That was no joke.

Chang being unusually aggressive. Not sure if town tell or scum tell

Did you even pay attention to changmas during the last day1 game?

htaeD posted...

Did you even pay attention to changmas during the last day1 game?

he must've been busy preparing his gladiator claim

That said I dont think Plum was pulling his Kirby wall from the end of the last game, considering all the names mentioned

But I would like to know why Plum himself didnt raise that counterpoint

masterplum posted...

IGCD I just think did jack this entire day. But three or four people said he was town, so maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding him.

I'm just skimming because I'm still fairly hungover and thought this was hilarious. Did I post anything other than my list? I honestly don't remember at this point.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I'm just skimming because I'm still fairly hungover and thought this was hilarious. Did I post anything other than my list? I honestly don't remember at this point.

O do remember my post about announcing my hungoverness prior to this post, I was mostly wondering about anything I may have posted around the time of my list.

I like Chang a lot more after the interactions with Plum.

Kirby321 posted...

I don't like your interactions with Plum. I don't believe you're making the right call here.

He's my top scumread so far, even after the Chang business. The vote stays until that changes. I'm not stuck on Plum or anything, so if you have a better option for me, I'm all ears.

Or you could convince me Plum is Town. It's early on, none of this is set in stone!

I don't feel like Plum was more passive last game, particularly in the first half of D1. One of the main things I remember as an observer was Plum trying repeatedly to convince everyone why bloody NL of all things was a good call. I also don't like him completely ignoring that you did provide several decent reads in your walls, and repeatedly asserting that you didn't. It feels like he saw a wall, realised that some of it was "idk one way or another" and overreached for an argument based on those parts.

While I agree that Kirby's overexplanatory posts are giving off extreme tryhard vibes which rub the wrong way, I don't really like plum's reaction by going and comparing to a post from a previous game from a different day in the game. Are we expecting there to be good analysis and content as opposed to contrived comments? Definitely not. So honestly I don't really like either of them from that exchange.

I like chang calling out plum on what I said above though. Doesn't contribute to a read, but I like his logic.