Poll of the Day > Are there any card based games on PC or Mobile that isn't P2W or riddled w/ MTX?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I like games that you collect things, and rather not have to use my wallet to do so.

I thought card games were inherently mtx these days...

I mean, I still ike the old Yugioh games... plus I assume you played Slay the Spire and Inscryption

Battle bands

Card City Nights.

Master Duel
Its system is inherently easy to break. Every new account you create gives you 5k Gems which, with around an hour of work is more or less enough to make whatever deck you want. I have like 10 MD accounts (using Steam) to field whatever deck I want, and if new cards come out? Create a new account.

The game doesn't even have a system that rewards seniority in any way, and actually punishes you (by not giving out rewards) for any account that's less than like 3 days old.

Judgmenl posted...

Master Duel
Its system is inherently easy to break. Every new account you create gives you 5k Gems which, with around an hour of work is more or less enough to make whatever deck you want. I have like 10 MD accounts (using Steam) to field whatever deck I want, and if new cards come out? Create a new account.

The game doesn't even have a system that rewards seniority in any way, and actually punishes you (by not giving out rewards) for any account that's less than like 3 days old.

So you missed the part where I said, not p2w, MTX, and where you have to buff your collection with your wallet.

I'm pretty sure that there's at least one or two Yu Gi Oh games that don't have P2W mechanics on Steam. Depending on what you mean by 'card based' you can find others too (like Ascension which is a deck-building game.)

hypnox posted...

So you missed the part where I said, not p2w, MTX, and where you have to buff your collection with your wallet.

I have a very, very aggressive stance on being anti-P2W to the point where I've trolled the MMORPG subreddit for over a decade now. I seriously believe that cash shop locked cosmetics is pay to win. Master Duel's system is inherently designed to trap people who are not willing to exploit it.
The fact that it allows you to exploit it is a net gain. You will not find another game that has this kind of system. You can create whatever deck you want with like 4 hours of time, even less if you're creating accounts during an Exhibition event. This weekend, I created a new account to create a Mathmech deck and put another account in plat for this season and over the course of an evening I created a Mathmech deck, an Exodia Deck, and 75% of like 2 other decks I could have finished with the 5k gems my account currently has.

Also, based on your use of the term MTX, I assume you've put in a significant amount of time into Path of Exile, an inherently pay to win game with one of the most egregious cosmetic cash shops in the industry and one of the most predatory lootbox systems where GGG gives streamers boxes to open every league while also investing into game systems that reward RMTing.

Judgmenl posted...

I have a very, very aggressive stance on being anti-P2W to the point where I've trolled the MMORPG subreddit for over a decade now. Master Duel's system is inherently designed to trap people who are not willing to exploit it.
The fact that it allows you to exploit it is a net gain. You will not find another game that has this kind of system. You can create whatever deck you want with like 4 hours of time, even less if you're creating accounts during an Exhibition event. This weekend, I created a new account to create a Mathmech deck and put another account in plat for this season and over the course of an evening I created a Mathmech deck, an Exodia Deck, and 75% of like 2 other decks I could have finished with the 5k gems my account currently has.

So again, to collect all the cards, you would need to MTX your way there... which is exactly what I said I do not want.

hypnox posted...

So again, to collect all the cards, you would need to MTX your way there... which is exactly what I said I do not want.

The goal isn't to collect all of the cards. That would be an inherently flawed mindset way to approach the game, or any CCG for the matter.
Also I made an edit to my post. You're too fast for me.

shadowverse champions battle is an old school yugioh style card rpg that I enjoyed very much, alas its only on switch

Judgmenl posted...

Also, based on your use of the term MTX, I assume you've put in a significant amount of time into Path of Exile, an inherently pay to win game with one of the most egregious cosmetic cash shops in the industry and one of the most predatory lootbox systems where GGG gives streamers boxes to open every league while also investing into game systems that reward RMTing.

I don't see Path of Exile being riddled with MTX. Granted I haven't played in years. Only money I put in was for a few tabs and I got many fully gears characters including a Headhunter(not sure if this is anything still or not)

This game is pretty awesome.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1092790/Inscryption/

hypnox posted...

I don't see Path of Exile being riddled with MTX. Granted I haven't played in years. Only money I put in was for a few tabs and I got many fully gears characters including a Headhunter(not sure if this is anything still or not)

Yes Headhunter still goes for 100ex+ every league, and they even recently added a few items more expensive than a Headhunter. Current best belt in the game (Mageblood, look up how disgustingly broken it is, allows you to get permanent uptime magic Flasks coupled with flask enchantments that give flask effectiveness) goes for 1-2 mirrors. They also recently added a battlepass and the current one rewards you with an Alt-art Headhunter skin (but not the Headhunter itself of course).

Judgmenl posted...

I seriously believe that cash shop locked cosmetics is pay to win.

That's axiomatically false, though. Cosmetics don't help you win the game. If they did, they wouldn't be cosmetics.

Now, it can certainly be argued that cosmetic microtransactions (or DLC or loot boxes or whatever other monetization system) are no less predatory and manipulative than actual P2W offerings, given the extent to which they capitalize on FOMO and how games often structure themselves in a way that places social pressure on players to encourage cosmetic purchases. That, I won't disagree with. To that end, you can extend that to argue that there's no meaningful distinction between P2W and cosmetic microtransactions, though I would disagree with that. But the definition of "pay to win" is being able to purchase significant gameplay advantages that free players either can't have or have to invest very heavily into the game to attain. "Cosmetics" refers to items (purchased or otherwise) that only have an aesthetic effect and do not provide gameplay advantages. By definition, cosmetics can't be pay to win.

My argument is more for if the game's main source of end game progression is cosmetics. I'm only arguing partially in good faith when making it because there are some games that have very poor endgame, and what little endgame they have is largely driven by cosmetics. But yes, FOMO and predatory marketing is usually why I make the argument. The argument largely started because of how predatory Star Trek Online is.

I also find the argument fun to make to see how people react to it (if at all).

I guess it technically works if cosmetics are considered the ultimate goal of the game, but it's still not what the vast majority of people think of when they use the term because the term specifically refers to gameplay advantages. If cosmetics are a major feature of the game, that's an argument against the "it's just cosmetic it doesn't matter" position (and a very valid argument), but that's still distinct from gameplay advantages.

funkyfritter posted...

Card City Nights.

To elaborate, the first game is PvE only and has no MTX, while the second game has PvP and MTX.

definitely Slay the Spire

Judgmenl posted...

I have a very, very aggressive stance on being anti-P2W to the point where I've trolled the MMORPG subreddit for over a decade now.

those people are too fargone, i honestly don't know how such people exist, then i realized gamblers exist and that this must be the new era form of said people
have you seen this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzl1_BMR_p4

i saw it and my only response was "who the hell agrees for a game you have to pay each month"

WoW was never really more than a fad at the right time, but gaming in general absolutely is an addiction.

Judgmenl posted...

WoW was never really more than a fad at the right time, but gaming in general absolutely is an addiction.

I will rebutte - Naxramas has some of the best MMO boss fights of all time and I've not yet seen better.

no reason pokemon clone

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1218210/Coromon/

card games are gachas lol

Sahuagin posted...

definitely Slay the Spire

You don't really collect cards in this on a long term basis, you build a deck for that run and once you die or win it's gone. I love Slay the Spire but it's nothing like say MTG or Hearthstone which allow you to adjust and build decks using your collection.

TC, most games that have a card collection and let you build decks will have mtx it's the nature of the thing. Now you can play many of them for free and slowly build up a collection, but paying is way easier and faster.

I would recommend Phantasy Star Online Episode 3 if it... like... existed

Judgmenl posted...

WoW was never really more than a fad at the right time, but gaming in general absolutely is an addiction.

sure it is

Monopoman posted...

You don't really collect cards in this on a long term basis, you build a deck for that run and once you die or win it's gone. I love Slay the Spire but it's nothing like say MTG or Hearthstone which allow you to adjust and build decks using your collection.

you do slowly build up the cards you have available though, don't you? I don't normally like card games at all so I don't know the differences. Slay the Spire is the exception.

Sahuagin posted...

you do slowly build up the cards you have available though, don't you? I don't normally like card games at all so I don't know the differences. Slay the Spire is the exception.

Yes you do slowly build that up but it stops eventually each character has a set # of cards and it's not a huge a list, and even then you can't guarantee those cards will be offered. Games like MTG are where deck construction before you even play a game is a huge aspect of the game, StS is more a deck building game where as you play you build a deck up.

The downside of the StS formula is if you really like card X you could do like 4 runs with that character and not see it once. Meanwhile with MTG if you really love card X you can put it in all the decks that have access to that color of mana.

Monopoman posted...

Yes you do slowly build that up but it stops eventually each character has a set # of cards and it's not a huge a list, and even then you can't guarantee those cards will be offered. Games like MTG are where deck construction before you even play a game is a huge aspect of the game, StS is more a deck building game where as you play you build a deck up.

k but OP just says "card based games" doesn't it?

Sahuagin posted...

k but OP just says "card based games" doesn't it?

That you collect things in. Reading helps a lot on a message board.

hypnox posted...

That you collect things in

well, you definitely "collect things"

Sahuagin posted...

well, you definitely "collect things"

Giving up things at the end of a run is not collecting things.

hypnox posted...

Giving up things at the end of a run is not collecting things.

"collecting things" within a run is still "collecting things"

regardless you do indeed "collect things" that persist between runs

Sahuagin posted...

"collecting things" within a run is still "collecting things"

regardless you do indeed "collect things" that persist between runs

I don't think you understand the meaning of collect things.

hypnox posted...

I don't think you understand the meaning of collect things.

feel free to elaborate

Sahuagin posted...

feel free to elaborate

Nah I am not gonna teach you 3rd grade vocab.

hypnox posted...

Nah I am not gonna teach you 3rd grade vocab.

well it's a good game and you might enjoy it if you tried it if you haven't played it already

Did you find anything good yet? I got Neoverse in my key list, that might appeal.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/994220/NEOVERSE/

DeltaBladeX posted...

Did you find anything good yet? I got Neoverse in my key list, that might appeal.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/994220/NEOVERSE/

@DeltaBladeX That looks interesting

Tossed you the key over Steam. Hope you have fun. :D

And off to bed with me now, so later.

DeltaBladeX posted...

Tossed you the key over Steam. Hope you have fun. :D

And off to bed with me now, so later.

good night sweet prince.

So a couple of days later, and I think this was the right choice. :D
https://i.imgur.com/sl5CDcL.png

DeltaBladeX posted...

So a couple of days later, and I think this was the right choice. :D
https://i.imgur.com/sl5CDcL.png

Yup its fun but once you get the builds its hella easy.