Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 46: Velvet Underground & Nico (+ Superunknown results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, January 23 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

The Velvet Underground and Nico track list:
1. Sunday Morning
2. I'm Waiting for the Man
3. Femme Fatale
4. Venus in Furs
5. Run Run Run
6. All Tomorrow's Parties
7. Heroin
8. There She Goes Again
9. I'll Be Your Mirror
10. The Black Angel's Death Song
11. European Son

User Cycle:
1/23: CasanovaZelos (Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes)
1/30: Seanchan (Dua Lipa - Future Nostalgia)
2/6: Giggsalot
2/13: RyoCaliente
2/20: darkx
2/27: neonreaper
3/6: Great_Paul
3/13: jcgamer107
3/20: ChichiriMuyo
3/27: ChainLTTP
4/3: BlueCrystalTear
4/10: MetalmindStats
4/17: HBJDubs
4/24: TheArkOfTurus
5/1: Snake5555555555
5/8: Jesse_Custer
5/15: ZaziGuado
5/22: firefdr
5/29: SpikeSetsFire
6/5: Johnbobb
6/12: VeryInsane

Soundgarden's Superunknown results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
ZeroSignal620: 26
TheArkOfTurus: 26
Johnbobb: 28
CasanovaZelos: 30
ChichiriMuyo: 38
MarkS222222222222222: 40
Snake5555555555: 46
Raetsel_Lapin: 46
Seanchan: 46
MetalmindStats: 46

General Album Comments

Seanchan: Did a first listen to Superunknown and felt a little mixed. Part of it is that after a few weeks of shorter albums, this one clocks in at 70 minutes...and feels it.

I know this is one of the "big 3" grunge albums with Nevermind and Dirt, right? If it is, this one definitely got the least breadth of radio play. I recognized 3 songs, which is far less than I did for Dirt or especially Nevermind.

Snake5555555555: I find it very hard to listen to this album ever since Cornell's passing. This was a staple album for me for years and years on end. The darkness, the mystery, the musicianship and songwriting are just about beyond anything in the grunge era if you ask me. It's as heavy as any doom or black metal album out there while also being far more accessible to the average listener which is a huge accomplishment.

ChichiriMuyo: Of the "Big 4" Seattle Grunge bands Soundgarden is my least favorite (though they have the coolest name of the bunch). Still, I was excited to listen to this album since I know a lot of it but never owned it. The truth is, though, the tone is pretty much all over the place on this album. "Half" in particular doesn't even feel like it belongs on the album, or from the 90s. It felt like an experimental throwback you'd expect from an album 20-30 years its senior. Considering the fact that they really filled the album, they could have done without it and a couple other songs. Still, the top third of the album is good and still holds up today.

ZeroSignal620: Superunknown remains the strongest in the Soundgarden library. The tracks many of us have heard thanks to radio, MTV, and even Road Rash still hold up to this day, and will forever be a staple in grunge history.

Seanchan: I didn't much care for the album. I found it to be bloated, both on the number of songs and the length of the individual songs. I was just done with this album way before it was over.

Johnbobb: ranking this album is so damn hard. Every song is great. Hell I'd probably count half this album among my altogether favorite songs. It goes hard start to finish in a way very few of the other grunge albums even attempted (Dirt is probably the only other one that comes close as far as really capturing that dark, heavy garage sound that grunge became so known for). Chris Cornell hands down was one of the best vocalists of all time.

MetalmindStats: Contrary to last week's diversity, I found most of the songs similarly solid; because of that (among other reasons), they were difficult to rank. However, Head Down would at least have been in my top three regardless.

Superunknown Track Ranking

15. Half (Track #14)
Score: 32 (Average Rank: 12.8/15)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#6)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555, ChichiriMuyo, ZeroSignal620, CasanovaZelos, Seanchan, TheArkOfTurus (#15)

14. Kickstand (Track #11)
Score: 43 (Average Rank: 11.7/15)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo (#6)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, Johnbobb, TheArkOfTurus, MetalmindStats, MarkS222222222222222 (#14)

13. Fresh Tendrils (Track #12)
Score: 44 (Average Rank: 11.6/15)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo, Seanchan (#9)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb, MarkS222222222222222 (#15)

12. Mailman (Track #4)
Score: 50 (Average Rank: 11/15)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#6)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats (#15)

11. Head Down (Track #6)
Score: 64 (Average Rank: 10/15)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#15)

10. Let Me Drown (Track #1)
Score: 66 (Average Rank: 9.4/15)
Biggest Fan(s): TheArkOfTurus (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#14)

9. My Wave (Track #2)
Score: 73 (Average Rank: 8.7/15)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555, Seanchan (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo (#14)

8. Superunknown (Track #5)
Score: 74 (Average Rank: 8.7/15)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo (#13)

7. Limo Wreck (Track #9)
Score: 76 (Average Rank: 8.4/15)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555, Raetsel_Lapin (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan, MarkS222222222222222 (#13)

6. Like Suicide (Track #15)
Score: 99 (Average Rank: 6.7/15)
Biggest Fan(s): ZeroSignal620 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo, Seanchan (#11)

5. Spoonman (Track #8)
Score: 119 (Average Rank: 4.9/15)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, TheArkOfTurus (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats (#11)

4. 4th of July (Track #13)
Score: 121 (Average Rank: 4.9/15)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555, MarkS222222222222222 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#14)

3. Fell on Black Days (Track #3)
Score: 125 (Average Rank: 4.4/15)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats (#10)

2. The Day I Tried to Live (Track #10)
Score: 137 (Average Rank: 3.7/15)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo, Johnbobb, TheArkOfTurus (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#10)

1. Black Hole Sun (Track #7)
Score: 147 (Average Rank: 3.1/15)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#11)

The Velvet Underground and Nico was among the first dozen albums I listened to when I really got into popular music near the beginning of last decade. From that first listen up through a year or two ago, it held my #1 spot, only outdone by Kate Bush's Hounds of Love (a position it could easily take back with my next all-time list update). This is an album where the modifier 'proto' can be applied to half a dozen genres - this is the beginning of so many alternative forms. What's truly shocking is how abrasive it remains even half a century later - despite several harsher genres becoming popular staples in the decades since, a track like "Heroin" still hurts in the best way. I predict this will be among our wildest results, a war between those who embrace the oddities for the paths they opened and those who find safety in the more traditional pieces. Either way, half the tracks on this album are all-time classics and the remaining pieces are all strong. A wild ride showcasing how much popular music advanced throughout the 1960s.

My ranking:
1. Heroin (#2 all-time)
2. Venus in Furs (#171)
3. I'm Waiting for the Man (#303)
4. Sunday Morning (#664)
5. All Tomorrow's Parties (#1071)
6. Femme Fatale (#2969)
7. There She Goes Again
8. Black Angel's Death Song
9. I'll Be Your Mirror
10. Run Run Run
11. European Son

@Giggsalot I was thinking of nominating MF Doom my next go round lol

welp I never got around to Superunknown, whoops.

I'll make sure to do this one. Tag.

Johnbobb posted...

@Giggsalot I was thinking of nominating MF Doom my next go round lol

ha, awesome. I tried to choose a few albums that I'd really struggle to rank, so hopefully people are up for that challenge!

a little sampler for each for anyone less familiar with the options for next time

Tom Waits - Rain Dogs (1985)
Rain Dogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTlkVTwMLFs

Madvillain - Madvillainy (2004)
All Caps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSJeHDlhYls

Lana del Rey - Norman Fucking Rockwell! (2019)
Mariners Apartment Complex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uFv9Ts7Sdw

I have mixed feelings on VU&Nico, will try to remember to do this later this week!

All three of the albums in the poll are among my top 200, but I'm really curious to see Board 8's take on Tom Waits.

Bump

Did a first listen to The Velvet Underground. Uh, lets just say I can totally see why this didn't have a lot of commercial success...

Up

Whast to say about The Velvet Underground & Nico? This album is essentially trolling in the pre-Internet era, but not in a way that I feel I can enjoy. I felt a bit of distaste for half the songs from the moment they started, while the other half tricked me into thinking I'd like the song then the band had to violate an instrument or two... every time. I honestly never want to listen to this album again, there isn't anything to enjoy here.

Here's my ranking, I guess, they could all just be last place really...

1. There She Goes Again
2. I'm Waiting for the Man
3. I'll Be Your Mirror
4. Venus in Furs
5. All Tomorrow's Parties
6. Femme Fatale
7. The Black Angel's Death Song
8. Sunday Morning
9. Run Run Run
10. Heroin
11. European Son

After this I'm tempted to nominate nothing but club music when my turn comes around.

ChichiriMuyo posted...

Whast to say about The Velvet Underground & Nico? This album is essentially trolling in the pre-Internet era, but not in a way that I feel I can enjoy. I felt a bit of distaste for half the songs from the moment they started, while the other half tricked me into thinking I'd like the song then the band had to violate an instrument or two... every time. I honestly never want to listen to this album again, there isn't anything to enjoy here.

Here's my ranking, I guess, they could all just be last place really...

1. There She Goes Again
2. I'm Waiting for the Man
3. I'll Be Your Mirror
4. Venus in Furs
5. All Tomorrow's Parties
6. Femme Fatale
7. The Black Angel's Death Song
8. Sunday Morning
9. Run Run Run
10. Heroin
11. European Son

After this I'm tempted to nominate nothing but club music when my turn comes around.

Have you... never listened to artsy / experimental music before at all? (If so, that's fine!) It's completely reasonable not to like VU&Nico - I said already that I don't think much of it myself! - but this is one of the most beloved and influential records of all time. To suggest that either the band themselves or their fans are somehow insincere or trolling is an absolutely baffling take.

Giggsalot posted...

Have you... never listened to artsy / experimental music before at all? (If so, that's fine!) It's completely reasonable not to like VU&Nico - I said already that I don't think much of it myself! - but this is one of the most beloved and influential records of all time. To suggest that either the band themselves or their fans are somehow insincere or trolling is an absolutely baffling take.

I'm pretty sure ChichiriMuyo would die if exposed to Trout Mask Replica based on that reaction.

in fairness, i'm pretty sure the critical reaction to VU&N was fairly mixed when it first came out. it didn't gain "one of the greatest albums of all time" status until much later.

I don't know how much of it was the initial reaction being mixed and how much was the record company simply not giving it a chance. It's not fair to imply people from the 60s rejected it - too few were even exposed to it to form an opinion. But I'm pretty sure it started becoming a big deal throughout the 70s when Lou Reed's solo career took off and people checked out his earlier work.

I've listened to "artsy" music before. Cibo Matto - Viva! La Woman is a fantastic album that I could listen to any time. "Birthday Cake" also gets into that "instrument violation" range but then it has other songs top balance it out. "Know Your Chicken" is also weird and out there but it doesn't sound like they were trying to hurt their instruments.

The thing that bothered me about TVU+N is that it felt like there was no balance to it, they just kept going all the way every time. There really isn't anything likable in the album, it just comes off as pretentious bullshit. It feels like it exists only as an excuse for somebody to say "oh, you just don't understand art because you're not sophisticated enough." Not that anyone said that, but that's exactly what I felt even as I was listening to it, and having that Andy Warhol cover art sure doesn't help alleviate that sense. The truth is, as far as experimentation goes, they really seemed to have very few tricks up their sleeves and over-relied on the most basic and most grating of them.

I'll try to give this a go around. I've knowingly heard one song by Velvet Underground (Pale Blue Eyes) and I very much enjoyed it! However, based on opinions shared here, it seems like it was not very indicative of Velvet Underground's sound.

ZaziGuado posted...

I'll try to give this a go around. I've knowingly heard one song by Velvet Underground (Pale Blue Eyes) and I very much enjoyed it! However, based on opinions shared here, it seems like it was not very indicative of Velvet Underground's sound.

The Velvet Underground started experimental with this album, went even more experimental with the next, settled down with the third (where Pale Blue Eyes comes from), and finally made a full-on pop rock album with their final (real) release.

bump

CasanovaZelos posted...

I'm pretty sure ChichiriMuyo would die if exposed to Trout Mask Replica based on that reaction.

Listening to it now. I'll let you know if I die. I actually think Captain Beefheart is better so far. It's not something I'd listen to for pleasure's sake, but I also don't feel like some trick is being played on me. Heck, I don't even feel like the instruments are being violated (at least so far).

1: Heroin
2: Venus In Furs
3: I'm Waiting For The Man
4: Sunday Morning
5: I'll Be Your Mirror
6: Femme Fatale
7: The Black Angel's Death Song
8: There She Goes Again
9: Run Run Run
10: European Son
11: All Tomorrow's Parties

Up

bump

Got around to Superunknown (was sick last week). I'm surprised Spoonman ended up that low, it's my #1.

1. Sunday Morning
2. Heroin
3. Ill Be Your Mirror
4. European Son
5. There She Goes Again
6. All Tomorrows Parties
7. Im Waiting For The Man
8. Venus In Furs
9. The Black Angels Death Song
10. Run Run Run
11. Femme Fatale

I remember listening to this last year and loving it, confused as to how I hadn't really given it any mind before. Still love it - it's a great "mood album" that has strong lyrical themes and amazing musical composition for its time. Like I still can't believe this is 1967. There are many good things going for it - the male/female harmonies, the innovation with instrumentation, the lyrics... the only song that is awful to listen to is the last one, because it goes on for WAY too long. This is one of those albums where last place is easier than first.

I decided upon my #1 and #11 pretty easily, but there are three tiers between them (2-5, 6-8, and 9-10) that are difficult to sort. There were slight variations between each of my three listens (well, save for that godawful last track). So here we go:

1. All Tomorrow's Parties
2. Sunday Morning
3. Heroin
4. Venus in Furs
5. I'm Waiting for the Man
6. Femme Fatale
7. I'll Be Your Mirror
8. There She Goes Again
9. The Black Angel's Death Song
10. Run Run Run
11. European Son

HBJDubs posted...

I'm surprised Spoonman ended up that low, it's my #1.

Also this. That was what I knew was gonna be my #1 if I had the mind to do it last week. I'm in a better place now, at least.

I always mean to listen to the albums in these topics, but I almost never do. Browsing the comments for VU&N, however, really motivated me to take the plunge and listen. Here is my ranking, with comments for each song.

1. Heroin
2. Venus in Furs
3. Im Waiting for the Man
4. Sunday Morning
5. Run Run Run
6. Femme Fatale
7. European Son
8. The Black Angels Death Song
9. There She Goes Again
10. Ill Be Your Mirror
11. All Tomorrows Parties

Sunday Morning feels trippy and psychedelic, a nice way set a tone for the album (we shall see if it keeps this tone!).

Im Waiting for the Man didnt hold my interest until the line about brownstones (or thereabouts). For some reason, maybe it was hearing the somewhat repetitive backing enough times, that was when the song begun to click for me. If it were half the length, I honestly dont think I would have enjoyed it nearly as much.

Femme Fatale: Wow that is some feedback on that mic. I like Nicos vocals. The best descriptor I can think of for them is classy and a little sad. This song is fine but a bit underwhelming compared to the first two.

Venus in Furs: This song starts out overwhelming, with discordant guitar and deep, low drumming. I really love the effect, its very gripping. The rest of the song keeps that vibe going. The specific guitar work reminds me a bit of the Indian music influences that were prominent in rock music when this album was released I wonder if thats intentional. Notably, this was the only song on the album to make me smile; I really got into it.

Run Run Run: Ive heard this one before, many years ago, and its so catchy that its occasionally popped into my head ever since! I honestly wouldnt have expected such a catchy refrain from this album. Ive always thought it was interesting when songs have random one-second dips in volume. Run Run Run has a few of them. I can only assume theyre intentional?

All Tomorrows Parties: Not really into this one. Maybe its the slower pace? Like with Femme Fatale, I like Nicos singing but I havent been digging her tracks as much. I did like the sped up guitar near the end, contrasted with the regular pace of the rest of the song.

Heroin: I knew going in that this was the big song from the album. It doesnt disappoint. I love the ebb and flow, starting off quiet and contemplative, then swelling into a big burst of energy, then dropping back to a quieter pace. Im not normally one to pay attention to most lyrics, but its clear Reed paints a pretty unflinching portrait of drug use. Wikipedia says the screeching instrument is an electric viola thats super effective. Heroin seems like the culmination of the album to this point.

There She Goes Again: I dont envy any song that has to follow Heroin, though this would probably rank low even with favorable placement. Not much to really say about it.

Ill Be Your Mirror: Not much to say about this one either! Poor Nico.

The Black Angels Death Song: My favorite parts of this song are the JSSSSHHHHH deflation noise and the discordant viola. Thats a very unique flavor.

European Son: oh this seems like a normal sonHEY THERE LION AND GLASS BREAKING uh yeah give me more sound effects in rock music, apparently thats a thing I like. The guitar solo that follows the glass is I guess what they would call raw. I think Ive gotten used to the feedback by this point that I barely even notice it, but its especially prominent in this song. It helps create this feeling of being overwhelmed in a really uncomfortable way (in a good way). The song is just utter chaos by the end. Unfortunately, I stopped paying attention to it, so its docked a few points from that.

Overall: neat album! Heroin was the clear standout, but the overall picture is pretty intense and raw, with interesting aural choices.

1. Femme Fatale
2. European Son
3. Sunday Morning
4. I'll Be Your Mirror
5. I'm Waiting for the Man
6. Run Run Run
7. All Tomorrow's Parties
8. Heroin
9. Venus in Furs
10. There She Goes Again
11. The Black Angel's Death Song

Figured Id give it a try because this is one of those albums Id always meant to get around to. Not a fan.

Venus in Furs
Sunday Morning
Femme Fatale
All Tomorrows Parties
Im Waiting for the Man
There She Goes Again
Run Run Run
Heroin
European Son
The Black Angel's Death Song
Ill Be Your Mirror

I gave the album a listen a few days ago. It was alright, though nothing that inspired me to want to go back and try to rank the tracks. I remember Heroin and Sunday Morning being the standouts. I turned it off before European Son finished because I was not feeling that track at all. Run Run Run sounded like what I imagine typical 60s Rock n' Roll to sound like. Whether that's true or not I'm unsure.

There's potentially there for me to like a straightforward album, so perhaps someday I'll give their third album a try given how CZ described it.

Even as the one who nominated this album and has probably listened to it at least two dozen times, this album was still hard as hell to rank. The styles of each of the songs are different in some way, ranging from psychedelic pop to predecessors to various other movements ranging from punk to noise rock. Took me a while to think.

Heroin
Femme Fatale
Im Waiting For My Man
Venus In Furs
Sunday Morning
European Son
All Tomorrows Parties
Ill Be Your Mirror
Black Angels Death Song
Run Run Run
There She Goes Again

Its funny, because in all honesty I havent listened to their other stuff nearly as much, but I have been really into White Light/White Heat lately

btw Im a little disappointed Madvillainy isnt winning, think its been a while since weve done a rap album here

1. Heroin
2. Run Run Run
3. There She Goes Again
4. Femme Fatale
5. Sunday Morning
6. I'm Waiting for the Man
7. Venus in Furs
8. European Son
9. All Tomorrow's Parties
10. I'll Be Your Mirror
11. The Black Angel's Death Song

Straight up, I don't like this album. I don't enjoy Lou Reed's singing. I enjoy Nico's singing even less. A lot of the instrumentation is just abrasive. I ranked Heroin #1 if just because it was kinda interesting with the whole heartbeat thing, but I can't say there's a single song here I truly enjoyed and there's no chance I ever listen to this album ever again.

With that said, I'm glad to have listened to it if it's considered a "classic" but absolutely did not "get it" at all. If this got popular after the fact because of Lou Reed's solo career, well, I have to wonder if it was just because of people trying to like it, willing themself to like it, deluding themself to like it so they could be part of some weird "in" crowd.

Or maybe I'm just "basic" and have no fucking taste. I fully recognize that's a very distinct possibility.

Some of you people get really condescending when you don't like something. It's possible for people to have different taste than you without 'pretending' to.

My apologies. I know I used some raw, hard language. My bad opinions don't change that you love this album. I certainly don't think you're pretending.

I'm trying to record my thoughts in real time. And sometimes that means I gush positively (see Roses) and sometimes...not.

At the end of the day, I'm capturing my thoughts on 1/22/2022. It's entirely possible I'll listen to this 5 years from now and have a completely different opinion. I was not a fan of The Beatles when I had someone at work play their #1s album over and over again. A few years later, I listened to their discography, "got it", and now would rank them as one of my favorite bands.

I don't usually comment on albums, but I'd like to be on the record as having enjoyed this one. It's not one of my absolute favorites, but there were some great songs and there weren't any songs I strongly disliked. Just a solid album all around.

i understand being confused by the universal praise this album received, really. like, every critic listed on wikipedia gave it a perfect score. i love the album but i think it's far from flawless.

As someone who nominated Doolittle and kinda recognize the same people liking/disliking both albums, I can see a bit of a comparison. Both albums are more well known for their influence and mix some gritty popish songs with some experimental songs that influenced future bands and genres.

I like Lou Reeds style and I like the honest brashness of the album, and as someone who has been learning to be a musician it allows me to realize there is more creativity to being a musician than just being really really good at your instrument a la a Hendrix or a Neil Peart. But thats just like my opinion man.

LiquidOshawott posted...

I like Lou Reeds style and I like the honest brashness of the album, and as someone who has been learning to be a musician it allows me to realize there is more creativity to being a musician than just being really really good at your instrument a la a Hendrix or a Neil Peart. But thats just like my opinion man.

i agree with this. one of the reasons why i put european son (a track that most people in this topic seem to dislike) so high is that it reminded me that technically superior instrumentalists aren't necessarily superior period. i'll take this improvisation over any "technically flawless but boring as poop" yngwie malmsteen guitar solo.

1. Heroin
2. Run Run Run
3. Sunday Morning
4. All Tomorrows Parties
5. Ill Be Your Mirror
6. Femme Fatale
7. Im Waiting for the Man
8. There She Goes Again
9. Venus in Furs
10. The Black Angels Death Song
11. European Son

I don't feel equipped to comment on this album for many reasons, but given the discussion, I wish to establish my personal appreciation for it. Even if I didn't exactly love it overall, there wasn't one song here I disliked.

I'd also like to apologize for the times my own tone might have dipped into condescension when talking about albums I personally didn't care for.

I re-listened to Heroin since so many people are rating it so highly and I suspect I underrated it a great deal given the merits of its lyrics and its timing and such, but I'm going to let my rating stand. I'll be that outlier. I won't listen to the full album again to re-rank it. The fact is the song gave me a headache, and the album gave me a worse one. It was literally painful to listen to, and the pain keeps going even after I've stopped listening, and I just don't get how anyone could like that.

ChichiriMuyo posted...

I re-listened to Heroin since so many people are rating it so highly and I suspect I underrated it a great deal given the merits of its lyrics and its timing and such, but I'm going to let my rating stand. I'll be that outlier. I won't listen to the full album again to re-rank it. The fact is the song gave me a headache, and the album gave me a worse one. It was literally painful to listen to, and the pain keeps going even after I've stopped listening, and I just don't get how anyone could like that.

Funnily enough, when I did my top 250 song project, I brought up how "Heroin" gave me a headache my first listen. It might be important to note that the name of the band is taken from a book on 'the sexual corruption of our age' with leather gear on the cover. "Venus in Furs" is explicitly about sadomasochism. So, to me, that first-time headache is part of the atmosphere that makes The Velvet Underground and Nico such a singular experience - this is a pain certain people are equipped to enjoy. That headache also went away with time; I think the album is a sonic encapsulation of the so-called deviancy of its time. It's messy, dissonant, sometimes painful, but the world of art opens up to so much more potential once you adjust to its existence.

I want to copy what I wrote about Heroin here so I can justify using it in the results presentation:
The first time I heard Heroin, John Cales wailing electric viola literally gave me a headache. Which is to say, I immediately fell in love and never looked back, an eternal fixture of my top two songs since I made my very first list a decade back. The appeal is in no way straightforward as I claim of so many of my other favorite songs on an album full of proto-whatever, Heroin remains the one song without significant connective tissue to music at large. Every element is so committed to supporting this sole idea that nothing could be taken or expanded upon. This exists at the forefront of experimental rock while shooting past the negative implications to land safely in the art rock zone no matter how hard this song goes, it maintains a strange accessibility.

Heroin finds four instruments and the human voice in perfect discord. The two guitars generate an introspective backbone while Moe Tuckers drumming starts with a low energy pattern. At first, Cales viola joins to merely drone in the backbone, Tuckers drumming picking up speed. Heroin is marked by crescendos, in which the drums threaten to skitter off while the viola begins to sear. Lou Reed delivers a quiet certitude, musing over the chaotic state of the world and citing heroin as the easy escape. Cales viola is the drug itself, Tuckers frantic drumming the rush. By the final crescendo, things truly go off the rails Moe Tucker momentarily stops drumming, so overwhelmed by the chaos. The viola transitions into a wailing monstrosity, yet Reeds certain voice ties everything together. This is a song so ahead of its time that it only dates itself through a Vietnam reference. Heroin may not be pleasant, but it exists as a riveting experience of music without limits.

for what it's worth, i don't really get the heroin hype myself. perhaps it's because i'm a fan of frank zappa, who's done this "using the instruments as a metaphor for the lyrics" thing tons of times in his music, so it's not all that special to me. it's a good song and i get that it's historically significant, but i think the record has plenty of better stuff to offer (hence why i ranked it pretty low).

so, I actually listened to this for the first time in years and I enjoyed it slightly more than I remembered! that said, I'm definitely in the minority in this topic in that I kind of wish the album was more weird and abrasive, rather than less (I am also definitely in the minority in preferring nico's weirdo folk records like desertshore to anything by VU or reed). I'm a bit fan of the john cale's electric viola drones here, especially in venus in furs, but the closer this gets to "regular" 60s rock music the more I lose interest (exceptions made for sunday morning, which is cute as buttons, and european son, which is pretty rubbish).

anyway, this topic has been fascinating because I figured that: i) VU&nico was such a classic that most people would have heard it already, and ii) the last half-century of music - so much if it influenced directly by this - had taken away some of the mystery and shock factor. that a 50 year old record, and not a completely avant-garde one at that (this isn't stockhausen), can still inspire such visceral and polarized reactions is a beautiful and super cool thing.

venus in furs
sunday morning
femme fatale
i'll be your mirror
i'm waiting for the man
heroin
run run run
all tomorrow's parties
the black angel's death song
european son
there she goes again

edit: aww, too late! boooooo