Current Events > Is a lesbian who won't have sex with trans women transphobic?

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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-57853385

Jennie is a lesbian woman. She says she is only sexually attracted to women who are biologically female and have vaginas. She therefore only has sex and relationships with women who are biologically female.

Jennie doesn't think this should be controversial, but not everyone agrees. She has been described as transphobic, a genital fetishist, a pervert and a "terf" - a trans exclusionary radical feminist.

"There's a common argument that they try and use that goes 'What if you met a woman in a bar and she's really beautiful and you got on really well and you went home and you discovered that she has a penis? Would you just not be interested?'" says Jennie, who lives in London and works in fashion.

"Yes, because even if someone seems attractive at first you can go off them. I just don't possess the capacity to be sexually attracted to people who are biologically male, regardless of how they identify."

I became aware of this particular issue after I wrote an article about sex, lies and legal consent.

Several people got in touch with me to say there was a "huge problem" for lesbians, who were being pressured to "accept the idea that a penis can be a female sex organ".

I knew this would be a hugely divisive subject, but I wanted to find out how widespread the issue was.

Ultimately, it has been difficult to determine the true scale of the problem because there has been little research on this topic - only one survey to my knowledge. However, those affected have told me the pressure comes from a minority of trans women, as well as activists who are not necessarily trans themselves.

They described being harassed and silenced if they tried to discuss the issue openly. I received online abuse myself when I tried to find interviewees using social media.

One of the lesbian women I spoke to, 24-year-old Amy*, told me she experienced verbal abuse from her own girlfriend, a bisexual woman who wanted them to have a threesome with a trans woman.

When Amy explained her reasons for not wanting to, her girlfriend became angry.

"The first thing she called me was transphobic," Amy said. "She immediately jumped to make me feel guilty about not wanting to sleep with someone."

She said the trans woman in question had not undergone genital surgery, so still had a penis.

"I know there is zero possibility for me to be attracted to this person," said Amy, who lives in the south west of England and works in a small print and design studio.

"I can hear their male vocal cords. I can see their male jawline. I know, under their clothes, there is male genitalia. These are physical realities, that, as a woman who likes women, you can't just ignore."

Are the lesbians being reasonable? Or are they just bigots?

DowntownMrSmith posted...

a genital fetishist

Holy shit, the idiocy of such a phrase. The internet was a mistake.

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No and shame on anyone who try to guilt people about having sex with them. Genitalia preference is a thing and is part of sexuality.

Being transphobic would be misgendering them intentionally and promote hate against them. I have seen many comments on Twitter about people saying genitalia preference is transphobic and it's borderline gay conversion therapy rhetoric.
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"Lesbian Not Queer"

I'm confused. The person holding this sign has a beard.

DowntownMrSmith posted...

"accept the idea that a penis can be a female sex organ".

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People are allowed to have preferences I thought

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No idea

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So anyone who isn't attracted to penises is transphobic now?

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Not this again
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RenescoStCewl posted...

So anyone who isn't attracted to penises is transphobic now?

It used to be called alt right gay conversion therapy...
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People who shit on women for not wanting to have sex with trans women give off the same vibe as incels that shit on women for not wanting to have sex with nice guys.

How does she know the woman is trans

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This is a preference. It's her life. If she doesn't want to be with a trans person, that's fine. I didn't read anything to see if her had anti-trans thoughts, but as long as your life-partner goes, you are free to be picky.

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SapphicBoy posted...

How does she know the woman is trans

In this specific case, because she was told that they're pre-op trans beforehand.

SapphicBoy posted...

How does she know the woman is trans

Some are more obvious than others. I am not saying that to be an asshole, but it's often the voice.
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Esrac posted...

In this specific case, because she was told that they're pre-op trans beforehand.

Then I personally would not consider that transphobic, unless it was a blanket statement

epik_fail1 posted...

Some are more obvious than others. I am not saying that to be an asshole, but it's often the voice.

You're just operating off preconceived notions an inherently transphobic society and media have ingrained into you

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Conflict posted...

Seems to me like the issue is less about her mentioning the "male genitalia" part and more about the other things she said

Someone should ask her about post-op transgender people

I still don't see what the issue with any of that is. Lesbians aren't attracted to every woman, just like heterosexuals aren't attracted to every cis male or female. If someone's jawline turns her off, or if she doesn't like the way they talk, then she doesn't want to fuck them. That's not transphobic lol.

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SapphicBoy posted...

Then I personally would not consider that transphobic, unless it was a blanket statement

You're just operating off preconceived notions an inherently transphobic society and media have ingrained into you

It's litterally based on my experience meeting trans women in real life. I used to litterally work at a gay bar. It's not to be an asshole, but I was pretty quick to notice the difference most of the time.
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Since when are people obliged to have sex with others?

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epik_fail1 posted...

It's litterally based on my experience meeting trans women in real life. I used to litterally work at a gay bar. It's not to be an asshole, but I was pretty quick to notice the difference most of the time.

In one study, 342 cisgender college students were shown pictures of 48 cisgender members of the opposite sex. Each picture was randomly assigned a fake biography, which included whether the person in the picture supposedly was transgender or cisgender. The college students were then asked to rate the attractiveness of the people in the pictures. The researchers found that participants were far less likely to find the people in the pictures attractive if they thought they were transgender

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550618783716

I've dated women who had deeper voices than most of my friends. Or looked masculine. It's all made up. There are no rules. Just gotta undo the brainwashing

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SapphicBoy posted...

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550618783716

I've dated women who had deeper voices than most of my friends. Or looked masculine. It's all made up. There are no rules. Just gotta undo the brainwashing

Wow a picture. It's almost like seeing people in real life and just a picture is a different thing. If it was "brainwashing" how the hell was I right 99% of the time?
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epik_fail1 posted...

Wow a picture. It's almost like seeing people in real life and just a picture is a different thing. If it was "brainwashing" how the hell was I right 99% of the time?

How do you explain the ratings of the cisgender nonbinary in the study?

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Yes, incredibly so.

She should expect her cheque for Cancelled in the mail very soon...

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Confirmation bias, you probably weren't

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Strictly speaking yes, it's transphobic, but less so if you don't make a big deal about it.

So, in making a big deal about it, she's kinda dipping into that inkwell.

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the poll is a false dichotomy. preferences can be transphobic

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It does seem lesbians do get lost in the trans culture war

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Dathrowed1 posted...

It does seem lesbians do get lost in the trans culture war

This is like saying goldfish get lost in the trans culture war.

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate what you mean with this.

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There's a lot of people that don't want to have sex with me but aren't phobic of me

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CyricZ posted...

This is like saying goldfish get lost in the trans culture war.

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate what you mean with this.

He's talking about how TERFs and cis guys constantly "what about cis lesbians" on shitty transphobic subreddits, and hoping people will just believe him without question. He's trying to sneakily set a precedent

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Tyranthraxus posted...

How do you explain the ratings of the cisgender nonbinary in the study?

I won't deny that transphobia might affect whether or not someone was interested, but did the biography talked about whether or not the trans people had operations?
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Conflict posted...

Very, very few people are going to take issue with you not wanting to sleep with someone who has a penis. That's not at all controversial

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2A77/production/_117517801_tweetcomp5blur.jpg

Well checkmate. Four anonymous Twitter posts (one from six years ago) shut us up good.

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CyricZ posted...

Well checkmate. Four anonymous Twitter posts (one from six years ago) shut us up good.

Well, you think it's transphobic. That's one more person.

DowntownMrSmith posted...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2A77/production/_117517801_tweetcomp5blur.jpg

I remember that years old jpg were a trans person states that someone has no right to turn down sex when the clothes come and genitalia revealed. It was supposedly fake but with attitudes like what TC presented, idk anymore...

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Anyone who voted yes is basically the left wing equivalent of a Trumper. Horseshoe theory in action.

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Conflict posted...

You linked 5 tweets, one of them from 2015. This is totally disproving my claim that very few people are going to take issue with it.

It's from the BBC article talking about how this is a growing trend in the lesbian community. I don't have time to go through the whole article for you.

Conflict posted...

You linked 5 tweets, one of them from 2015. This is totally disproving my claim that very few people are going to take issue with it.

https://twitter.com/SportIsARight/status/1178619997704327168?s=20
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DowntownMrSmith posted...

Well, you think it's transphobic. That's one more person.

That is on me, because I was responding to the poll and not this specific article, wherein the details are "because she has a penis".

So please next time make sure you make your intentions clear when making a topic and a poll.

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epik_fail really showing off his skills on being able to type "genital preferences" into Twitter search.

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Liberal : Centrists take the side of conservatives more often than they take the side of liberals
Also liberal : Oh you are a lesbian, if you don't like girldick, YOU ARE A BIGOTED TERF AND YOU DESERVED TO BE ARRESTED, conservative were rights about genitalia preference being a choice.

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epik_fail1 posted...

I won't deny that transphobia might affect whether or not someone was interested, but did the biography talked about whether or not the trans people had operations?

I didn't catch if it said pre or post op but they were randomly assigned gender identity including being biologically cis and cis presenting but just had a non-binary they/them identity and that was enough to "reduce attractiveness"

I'm just saying there's definitely a social conditioning aspect to it. I'm sure if you repeated the experiment and randomly threw in "voted for Trump" that would also cause a rating adjustment depending on the political orientation of the viewer.

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CyricZ posted...

epik_fail really showing off his skills on being able to type "genital preferences" into Twitter search.

I mean. Feel free to do it, I just linked one tweet among many.
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Anyone who says anyone else is required to have sex with them is an incel and they don't matter

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Are you guys ok