Board 8 > Hearthstone Topic - C-C-C-COMBO META

(+) Yeah! (+)

VeryInsane posted...

I think poison makes sense because you need a way to comeback against big stats or low level strats (Otherwise Lich Baz just crushes every game) but reborn poison is kinda silly.

Also, I ended up hitting legend with Shadow Priest lol

I agree that there needs to be some kind of way to win against someone with one giant minion. But poison makes stats completely irrelevant. You've effectively given your minion an attack stat of infinity. And that's fine if it does its thing once and dies...or survives purely because of a high health total. But the moment you give your poison DS and reborn, it becomes stupid. To emphasize:

https://youtu.be/avbd-Gy6bPo

I like the suggestion for battlegrounds to make poison more like divine shield.

Divine shield is infinite health for one attack.

Poison should be infinite damage...for one attack. (Currently it's just infinite damage).

So...I saw a copper hunter list a while back (wild beast hunter with Defias Blastfisher, Stormwind Piper, and Starving Buzzard).

Had a discussion in the wild subreddit with someone else who had the same deck but a very different version of the build--led me to removing desert spear and clear the way--not enough rush minions to consistently trigger clear the way, and desert spear isn't great.

And then I put in Tracking and Leatherworking Kit--help finding Buzzard and stuff like that and...suddenly the deck actually feels pretty good and consistent? Like...maybe not a joke?

### Copper Hunter
# Class: Hunter
# Format: Wild
#
# 2x (0) Devouring Swarm
# 2x (0) Serpentbloom
# 2x (1) Adorable Infestation
# 2x (1) Alleycat
# 2x (1) Leatherworking Kit
# 1x (1) Overwhelm
# 2x (1) Springpaw
# 2x (1) Timber Wolf
# 2x (1) Tracking
# 2x (1) Wolpertinger
# 2x (1) Wound Prey
# 2x (2) Selective Breeder
# 2x (2) Starving Buzzard
# 2x (3) Stormwind Piper
# 2x (5) Defias Blastfisher
# 1x (5) Tundra Rhino
#
AAEBAYoWArsFudADDt4E2QnquwKghQOizgO50gPq6QPb7QPm7gPE+wPI+wOU/APBgASpnwQA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

Made it to Legend with Ping Mage.

Decided to try your deck again Ulti and got absolutely demolished by a Quest Rogue in 4 turns. Deleted your deck after that game lol

Data Reaper says Wildfire Mage is a Tier 4 deck with a score of 45. Very confused by that ranking unless people are just misplaying it like crazy.

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-222/

Quest Hunter, Burn Shaman, and several Druid decks are just bad matchups for it and relatively common on those ranks.

Welp, Copper Hunter has gone right back to underperforming. Turns out adding a few more ways to pull starving buzzard out of the deck, you can still fail to get starving buzzard before the last 7 cards :/

Man, the meta sure did a 180.

Now I'm facing mostly control warrior and ping mage, and these matchups seem miserable for shadow priest. Lost a bunch of games in a row.

Was looking for something that was good into both; found quest hunter, but actually missing a lot of cards (2 copies of the epic secret and Barak Kodobane).

But also...Pirate warrior is good into them, and 50-50 into ramp druid for anyone still running that. Reluctantly re-crafted the quest and...it's been winning.

Nevermind, found the ramp druids again; back to shadow priest?

Ramp Druid started adding Feral Rage and Moontouched Amulet so they're gaining stupid amounts of armor now. I don't even see how aggro beats them now considering they can completely erase the early game damage with double feral rage gaining 16 armor and then playing dragon swarm the next turn to clear your board.

They don't even need to play Cenarion Ward anymore to beat aggro it seems. My ping mage deck that I used to get legend last month is getting demolished by Druids now.

Looks like Locusts is getting deleted

Also a bunch of top tier heroes got dunked on with their buddies on BG (Wogtag, Baz, Voljin etc)

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23765274/22-4-3-patch-notes

skullbone posted...

I don't even see how aggro beats them now considering they can completely erase the early game damage with double feral rage gaining 16 armor and then playing dragon swarm the next turn to clear your board.

Aggro beats them the same way it did before. Play Tunnel Trogg on turn 1. Their whole deck is spells, so you're about to get a wide board. Throw in some pump for the wide board you're about to get (voidtouched attendant or arbor up are good choices) and they are usually dead usually the turn after they cast overgrowth (turn 4ish). Not usually enough time for them to solar out a feral rage.

Certianly good Kaz is getting nerfed, though. Ladder was like...queueing an aggro deck that hard targets druid, and then running into control warriors, and then queueing an anti-warrior deck just to die to something else. The rock-paper-scissors was intense.

Hopefully the rock-paper-scissors meta chills out after the nerfs.

You know, the first time I read locusts, I didn't realize it could go face till someone used it on my face; thought it was a more expensive Bubba. Even after I realized it could go face, I didn't realize it had fucking twinspell. What a silly card.

I wouldn't mind if they also deleted Embers of Ragnaros at some point. (I think it's fine when used by Warrior and Priest, but the fact that Druid can solar it is kind-of silly). I guess they might just wait for rotation to get rid of solar eclipse.

I think Locusts was only the third highest win rate amongst the treasures? Probably has a lot to do with Druid not being able to take advantage of it like they can Rag/Book, but removing Locusts will just make those two even more likely to show up as choices so I'm not even sure this is a nerf for Druid versions of the deck.

Kind of sucks that it feels like nerfing the treasures themselves is off the table.

Kazakusan should add the treasures to your deck instead of replacing your deck. So you could still use him as a finisher but playing him earlier has less consistency.

Camden posted...

I think Locusts was only the third highest win rate amongst the treasures?

The data you're probably thinking of is this:

https://old.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/t3s2wz/top_5_kazakusan_treasures_hsreplaynet_feb_28/

The top 3 treasures having a winrate of 63.4%, 63.3%, and 63.1%. All of these being within 0.1% of each other means I wouldn't put too much weight on which one is on top--they're all about equally as strong. (The gap between the top 3 treasures and the 4th best treasures is large, though. #4 is 61.3%, which is 2% lower than the top 3).

removing Locusts will just make those two even more likely to show up as choices so I'm not even sure this is a nerf for Druid versions of the deck.

Nah.... The top 4 is all face damage (with Pure Cold coming in at #4, and that's just 5 mana to deal 8 damage to the enemy hero and freeze).

Going from 4/29 burn cards to 3/28 burn cards is definitely going to be a nerf. Goes from 13.8% of the pool being a burn card to 10.7% of the pool being a burn card.

I would still like to see Embers of Ragnaros out of the pool, cause like...there's tons of board clears among Kazakusan treasures. The way you play around most treasures is that you don't overcommit to the board. And the way you play around Embers of Ragnaros is...to have a huge board. If you're playing around other Kazakusan treasures, you can't play around Embers of Ragnaros.

Camden posted...

Kind of sucks that it feels like nerfing the treasures themselves is off the table.

I don't see a reason why it needs to be off the table--some of the treasures already have different stats than they have in duels. (Mutating Injection costs 3 mana as a duels treasure, and 2 mana off of Kazakusan, for example. Beastly Beauty costs 5 mana as a duels treasure, and 3 mana as a Kazakusan treasure, for example. Bubba in duels is a 6 mana 6/6 instead of a 5 mana 8/8).

No reason why the treasures themselves can't be adjusted, since they're already different from their duels counterpart.

I'm more thinking of nerfing effects than stats. It feels like the obvious solution to 'Locusts is a problem' is to just remove Twinspell from it, but the fact that they jumped straight to removal makes me think they don't want the treasures to be functionally different than they are in duels.

Camden posted...

I'm more thinking of nerfing effects than stats. It feels like the obvious solution to 'Locusts is a problem' is to just remove Twinspell from it, but the fact that they jumped straight to removal makes me think they don't want the treasures to be functionally different than they are in duels.

Locusts is.....apparently not even in duels anymore. (Got removed before Kazakusan was even released on January 25th). Relevant patch notes:

https://playhearthstone.com/en-gb/news/23765270/

TREASURE POOL CHANGES
Fireshaper, Ever-changing Elixir, LOCUUUUSTS!!!, and Conduit of Storms have been removed from their respective treasure pools.

(Also apparently it cost 7 mana in duels).

Druid playing Guff on turn 2 should not be a thing. "Mana Cheat" as a class identity is so dumb it drives me crazy.

Instructions unclear, bloom-bloom-guff T1'd instead

FFDragon posted...

Instructions unclear, bloom-bloom-guff T1'd instead

As if you'd ever come back from skipping turn 2! How will you ever deal with my 3/2 minion?

Oh you have a 7 mana spell that summons 14/7 in stats? Yeah that'll do it

Haha turn 2 Guff. Hilarious. I just faced turn 2 bloom bloom innervate innervate Kazakusan (I still won).

Oh yeah I agree. He did pick low mana ones (Spyglass, Wax Rager) but he was also only drawing one card a turn.

Just play aggro! Just build up a board and pressure Druid!

https://i.imgur.com/E3CI6Or.png

He played Guff next turn and then double Cenarion Ward the turn after.

Well, the tavern brawl this week is the "you're guaranteed to draw a 1 mana card on 1, 2 mana card on 2, 3 mana card on 3 etc".

If you just want to get your win and leave, make this your curve

1: (any decent 1 drop)
2: Far Watch Post (messes up the opponent's on curve draws--run 2)
3: (any decent 3 drop)
4: Drek'thar (pull out second far watch post and a scary 3 drop)
5: Arbor Up

If you want to meme, run Vanndar--guaranteed to draw Vanndar on turn 4. Guaranteed to draw an 8 mana minion discounted to 5 on turn 5. This was the curve I was running.

1: True Aim Crescent
2: Battleworn Vanguard (the 2/2 that summons two 1/1s when you attack)
3: Ace Hunter Kreen
4: Vanndar

Filled the rest of the deck with whatever 8-10 mana cards caught my fancy. Ancient Void Hound time!

Here's the list if anyone just wants to copy/paste but there's probably better 8-10 drops (Two lines cause GameFAQs, delete carriage return)

AAECAZvoAwrhzgPj1AOpgQSwigS0igSnjQTJnwTkpATvpASlrQQK87sDg8cD79UD
+NYDveEDlOQD/u0DzPkDgIUE2KAEAA==

The double watch post Drek'thar deck does beat this, however. If you suspect watch posts, keep your 1/2/3/4 in the opening mulligan so that they can't be cost increased, but you're probably still screwed cause your "5" which is your first high cost card probably gets cost increased.

Oh yeah, for sure. Not hard to get a win. (I just copy pasted a standard deck to get a win before I messed around with building better decks).

Just...Drek'thar and Vanndar make for some interesting deckbuilding, and Far Watch Post also has a very unusual interaction with the mechanic of the tavern brawl, so I'm having fun with the deckbuilding.

Quest Priest is the other deck with a very interesting interaction with the tavern brawl. I suspect Quest Priest is probably the best deck for running Vanndar, as I seem to have a losing record with Vanndar DH against Vanndar Quest Priest so far. (They just need to stay alive, play the quest reward on turn 9, and be guaranteed to draw shard on turn 10--their 1, 2, 3, 4 is a little worse, but Soul Mirror is a really good 7 against other Vanndar decks).

Hmm...tuning the DH deck a little more...feels like it needs to be aggressive to handle quest priest, so I've been tuning it accordingly. (Battlegrounds Battlemaster, Troll Centurion).

Now usually beating that deck if I go first. (Going first is a massive advantage in Vanndar mirrors, though, so probably still a weaker deck overall).

It's probably also correct to just make my 2 drop Far Watch Post. (Card is just too good).

Ran into a couple people now running Speaker Gidra as their 3 drop into 4 mana spell for giant windfury (Kodo Mount is the really allin 9 attack windfury on turn 4). Turn 1 trogg, turn 2 Mark of the Wild--probably the same person or at least someone who copied the same decklist.

Lost to it both times, but I was also going second both times. Doesn't that deck just get run over if it goes second and Gidra gets cleared off?

Whoa, just played against a really creative deck.

Turns 1-5 some face damage through soul fragment cards. Turn 6 Proving Grounds summoning two Troll Centurions (only minions left in the deck) that fight each other and deal 16 damage to face.

Turns 1-3 were fairly disorganized random weapons and spells keeping my board clear and dealing some face damage. One Watchpost delayed by a turn to deny me Vanndarr Turn 4. Turn 4 was marrow slicer (8 damage) turn 5 was Soulshard Lapidary (5 damage). 13+16 is 29, so one more damage is lethal.

Neat.

The hunter version of Vandarr seems interesting, cause it can go over the top of other Vanndar decks but requires some specific deck construction.

Beastmaster Leoroxx on 5 (immediately after Vanndar) to dump a bunch of beasts into play from hand. Wing Commander Ichman on 6 to pull a bunch of beasts out of the deck.

Need to cut a lot of 8s and 9s to guarantee these two cards, but they are substantially better than what other classes can do on turn 5/6.

Not sure what they typically do later in the curve. 7 could be Raid Boss Onyxia, 8 could be guardian animals or Jewel of N'Zoth? (Jewel can revive Mountain Bears, Humongous Owls, Teacher's Pet, I guess maybe Rat King or Imported Tarantula though I've yet to see those two).

Just ran into a mage playing literal FLIGHTMASTER DUNGAR to tech against aggro. How are people playing these decks that auto lose to Druids in this current meta? It makes absolutely no sense to me that people are teching against the Druid counter instead of the actual Druid games.

I really need to remember how much I dislike this game for the next pre-order so I don't get suckered in again.

Looks like they leaked the next expansion

Sunken City themed

skullbone posted...

Just ran into a mage playing literal FLIGHTMASTER DUNGAR to tech against aggro. How are people playing these decks that auto lose to Druids in this current meta?

Is Flightmaster strictly anti-aggro? Like...sure, against aggro you can choose 10 healing, but 12 damage is also an option on the card, as is "awaken in one turn and get a 2/2 adventurer" although I've literally never seen anyone pick the 2/2. 12 damage though? Maybe?

(Not a card I've ever played, granted, despite getting it for free, so I have no sense of how effective that would be).

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23765275

Sunken City announcement and a huge BG patch, rip Tidehunter, Acolyte, and Maexxna.

I'm actually kinda mad that they keep pumping resources into Mercenaries.

It was a flop. Abandon it.

FFDragon posted...

I'm actually kinda mad that they keep pumping resources into Mercenaries.

It was a flop. Abandon it.

From what I've heard, it was targeted at the Asian market, and might have been successful in Asia?

Though yeah, I agree that it's annoying they keep giving people incentives to play the mode (having dailies that are obviously meant to be completed in mercs, having quests to play mercs, etc).

Like...there's more quests pointing people towards mercs than battlegrounds, which is really weird to me.

Because Mercs is easier to monetize than Battlegrounds

though the finishers look cool at least

New amalgam looks pretty good in any heavily tribal deck:

https://old.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/thtrgl/new_card_revealed_amalgam_of_the_deep/

I'm pretty annoyed that it's epic, though. I thought when circus amalgam came out that they had learned that amalgams at common were a good thing to help all the off-meta tribal decks people didn't necessarily want to spend dust on.

Friend of a Friend Broke Battlegrounds so quickly that it's already getting removed

Yeah I used that with Brann the other day and got the darkmoon tickets buddy and the free 1/3/5 drop buddy.

So I got 2 max tier darkmoon tickets and 6 free minions from buying him lol

It was a fun idea but the highroll potential of some of the buddies is too high.

Hot take: It's Brann that's broken, not Friend

From a design limit sense, maybe

but friend just showed how silly some buddies are late game