Poll of the Day > I got to see Shang-Chi a couple of weeks ago at an early premier.

(+) Yeah! (+)

It was pretty good! Definitely a top 10 MCU movie for me. Quite possibly a top 5 contender. The action was really well done and I love the mythology parts of it. I like Simu Liu as a lead actor. I started watching Kim's Convenience because I wanted to see what else he has done prior to this. Now I've been binging it whenever I can. What was really cool is that Simu Liu actually showed up at the Chinese theater in LA where I saw it and he introduced the movie to us. I already have tickets to see it on opening day with my girlfriend because she is really excited to see it. Tony Leung is completely badass too. Was anyone else here looking forward to this movie?

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Some website was saying that it's just a retread of the Black Panther story. How true is that? I didn't bother reading the website because it just looked like a click bait headline, but I'm wondering if it has any merit.
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lihlih posted...

Some website was saying that it's just a retread of the Black Panther story. How true is that?

The problem is, 95% of all origin-story movies are going to feel like retreads of the same story, because how often can you do the arc of a hero learning to be a hero for the first time and have it feel completely fresh?

Black Panther and Shang-Chi might feel even more similar because both involve someone inheriting an ancient legacy that's been in their family for years, but that's not entirely uncommon for origin stories either (The Phantom did it 80+ years ago).
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lihlih posted...

Some website was saying that it's just a retread of the Black Panther story. How true is that? I didn't bother reading the website because it just looked like a click bait headline, but I'm wondering if it has any merit.

I'd say no. I mean you could always find similar themes in most superhero movies but it didn't feel like I was just watching a rehash of Black Panther. It felt more like an MCU kung-fu movie than anything. I can't really say much about the story without spoiling anything. Family is definitely a central theme.

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I like Shang Chi and I'd be a lot more interested in this movie if Iron Fist didn't have to die on the cross for it.

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Is he another Mary Sue like all their minority heroes?

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Mensis posted...

Is he another Mary Sue like all their minority heroes?

omg get over yourself dude

its a fucking superhero flick

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Mead posted...

omg get over yourself dude

its a fucking superhero flick

Sorry that I prefer flawed and believable characters, which the MCU has a ton of great ones. But can you actually argue that Im wrong? Sam Wilson and TChalla are both perfect humans with no flaws and that makes them boring to me.

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Mensis posted...

But can you actually argue that Im wrong? Sam Wilson and TChalla are both perfect humans with no flaws and that makes them boring to me.

yeah you are wrong because that isnt true of either of those characters

Sam struggles with PTSD and feels that he doesnt live up to his own expectations, and constantly second guesses his own motivations

Tchalla is an idealist, often to a fault and often impulsively doesnt take into account the pragmatic effect his actions will have on his country

so shut the fuck up and stop trying to gaslight a bunch of weird racial shit in a topic that has nothing to do with that

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Mead posted...

yeah you are wrong because that isnt true of either of those characters

Sam struggles with PTSD and feels that he doesnt live up to his own expectations, and constantly second guesses his own motivations

Tchalla is an idealist, often to a fault and often impulsively doesnt take into account the pragmatic effect his actions will have on his country

so shut the fuck up and stop trying to gaslight a bunch of weird racial shit in a topic that has nothing to do with that

youre getting way too worked up. Ill agree they do exhibit those character traits but I wouldnt call them flaws, both characters use those traits to their advantages and they always benefit from them, never fail.

Youre coming after to me in an accusatory way which I really dont appreciate, its the fault in the writing of those characters which caused me to develop that opinion, not whatever you are attempting to imply


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Its fine to disagree with me about the characters but you are taking great leaps to accuse me of something I didnt even do or think just because I used the term minority. The comment is a critique on how those characters have been handled by the writers and their corporate overlords.

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Mensis posted...

Youre coming after to me in an accusatory way which I really dont appreciate

boo hoo

maybe next time dont be obnoxious

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Mead posted...

boo hoo

maybe next time dont be obnoxious

Of course thats the only reply you have.

It is in fact you who are being obnoxious. Youre phony as fuck and youre obsession with always having the moral high ground blinded you to what I was even talking about

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Wow he actually blocked me, what a tool

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I think it's a little suspect that you see all the minority heroes as Mary Sues when I don't see any reason to view them in that way any more than the white characters. But to answer your question, no. Shang-Chi isn't presented as a Mary Sue (imo).

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Marvel Cult-imate Universe?

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That Tchalla What If episode that came out recently got me thinking about it so I guess it was fresh on my mind, he is definitely a Mary Sue in that, but I guess I shouldve worded things differently, never wanted to offend anyone.

Also in Falcon and Winter Soldier Sam is just a paragon of goodness and he has the hyper flawed Bucky to contrast him. But I digress thats not what this topic or my question was about. Glad to hear Shang-Chi is good, sorry I derailed the topic

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Mensis posted...

That Tchalla What If episode that came out recently got me thinking about it so I guess it was fresh on my mind, he is definitely a Mary Sue in that, but I guess I shouldve worded things differently, never wanted to offend anyone.

Also in Falcon and Winter Soldier Sam is just a paragon of goodness and he has the hyper flawed Bucky to contrast him. But I digress thats not what this topic or my question was about. Glad to hear Shang-Chi is good, sorry I derailed the topic

I agree about that episode of What If. I think that's why I didn't like it. He was too perfect. Lol. But yeah I don't see it that way for the other shows and movies. Not even with Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I think Falcon has his flaws. Winter Soldier obviously has more but it makes sense when you think about it. He is a brainwashed soldier that is dealing with how he killed a lot of innocent people. It's a pretty ***ed up past. Falcon has less to deal with in comparison but I don't think that makes him a Mary Sue.

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If TC could PM me character that shows up during the credits, I'd appreciate it :)

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.. and I thank TC for saving me 3 hours :)

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Lol no worries.

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Who is Sam Wilson?

SomeUsername529 posted...

Who is Sam Wilson?

The Falcon and now new Captain America.

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Mensis posted...

Ill agree they do exhibit those character traits but I wouldnt call them flaws, both characters use those traits to their advantages and they always benefit from them, never fail.

Uhh, pretty much the entirety of Black Panther's plot relies on T'Challa being too idealistic and believing that Wakanda's "old ways" would work out if he just kept believing in them. He only ends up succeeding in the long run because he realizes how wrong he was.

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Shang Chi was really fucking good

Also I cannot fucking believe anybody could watch more than the trailer for this film and say "this is Asian black panther". That feels like a dog whistle.

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Can't wait to see it, but at this point I'll watch almost anything with Simu Liu in it tbh.

planning on seeing it at a drive in theater sometime this weekend

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Its actually pretty decent. A lot of stuff is underexplained and/or nonsensical if you think about it too hard but the early action is great (I'd say it gets progressively less interesting as the amount of CG goes up) and Simu Liu, being a former stunt man, is a solid action lead.

The only really distracting part of the movie for me was how Awkwafina's character has literally nothing to do for roughly 90% of the movie but is just there in every scene. I'm not even trying to imply anything negative about her by pointing it out (maybe some people really hate her, I dunno) but if the other main female character were played by a more famous actress they could have written the Katy character out entirely and lost nothing.

SomeUsername529 posted...

Its actually pretty decent. A lot of stuff is underexplained and/or nonsensical if you think about it too hard but the early action is great (I'd say it gets progressively less interesting as the amount of CG goes up) and Simu Liu, being a former stunt man, is a solid action lead.

The only really distracting part of the movie for me was how Awkwafina's character has literally nothing to do for roughly 90% of the movie but is just there in every scene. I'm not even trying to imply anything negative about her by pointing it out (maybe some people really hate her, I dunno) but if the other main female character were played by a more famous actress they could have written the Katy character out entirely and lost nothing.

Ugh. Hate is the wrong word, but she annoys the living piss out of me in everything she's in.

this movie was
and yeah katie was easily the worst part but the movie was still amazing, crazy what having actually competent fight actors will do for your fight scenes

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I liked her, but her whole subplot in the last arc felt kind of forced and not really a payoff to her character gee i never commit to anything, i guess ill just play archer for a day and be naturally talented lol. And the sister felt underdeveloped because they were "sharing" screen time.

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Blighboy posted...

I liked her, but her whole subplot in the last arc felt kind of forced and not really a payoff to her character gee i never commit to anything, i guess ill just play archer for a day and be naturally talented lol. And the sister felt underdeveloped because they were "sharing" screen time.

This is more what I mean. I don't think she was a negative presence in the movie it's just that her character serves no purpose after the initial setup. Like, at one point Shang Chi, his sister, and their dad are talking about their horrible family history and she's just...there. And nobody is like "Why the fuck is this random woman here?"

TheSlinja posted...

this movie was
and yeah katie was easily the worst part but the movie was still amazing, crazy what having actually competent fight actors will do for your fight scenes

SomeUsername529 posted...

A lot of stuff is underexplained and/or nonsensical if you think about it too hard

That's probably stuff that's taken right out of the comic books, where they don't necessarily explain it in the movie but you understand it perfectly if you've got 40+ years worth of comic continuity in your head.

I haven't seen it, so I don't know if that's the case, but I do know it tends to be a thing in comic movies in general. I think they kind of like the idea that it can sort of be a bit of an easter egg for loyal fans without being too blatant.

Shang Chi's backstory in the comics is worse than some because a lot of it was originally rooted in licensed material (Sax Rohmer's Fu Manchu stories), and when Marvel lost the license they couldn't refer to it anymore (they had the same problem with Conan), so it kind of got altered over time to try and retcon things to avoid triggering the license issues.



SomeUsername529 posted...

maybe some people really hate Awkwafina, I dunno

I think the biggest issue some people have with her is she's got that loud abrasive New York/Long Island voice/personality (and let's be honest, her name's incredibly stupid). So it's kind of easy to form a knee-jerk visceral dislike for her right out of the gate even if you barely know anything about her.

It's kind of like how some people thought Fran Drescher was irritating back in the day. Or how some people react to Gilbert Gottfried and Bobcat Goldthwait (though in both of those cases, they're actually deliberately putting on fake over-the-top voices - you can catch them in rare instances using their real voices and it's crazy).
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TheSlinja posted...

this movie was
and yeah katie was easily the worst part but the movie was still amazing, crazy what having actually competent fight actors will do for your fight scenes

This so much.

Definitely one of the best MCU origin movies imo. I was really surprised by how good the pacing was throughout most of the movie. And tbh, I feel some are overexaggerating the Katie parts.

Blighboy posted...

I liked her, but her whole subplot in the last arc felt kind of forced and not really a payoff to her character gee i never commit to anything, i guess ill just play archer for a day and be naturally talented lol. And the sister felt underdeveloped because they were "sharing" screen time.

This is true though. The sister could've used more development. As for the spoiler part... That part in general was the weakest part of the movie. The main characters only had a couple days to train for the final confrontation. But even then, I think the point was that she finally had a goal and something to work towards instead of not having any goals or aspirations. She wasn't even that good at archery iirc, and they even told her multiple times to stay away because she wasn't ready/good enough to help.

With all of that said, I think it would've been better if she had decided to do something with her driving skills. The movie really hammered in that she likes to drive and is an amazing driver, so it could've connected to her subplot nicely.

Welp, sounds like people are pleased with its Labor Day opening weekend numbers

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Movie was really cool!

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lihlih posted...

Some website was saying that it's just a retread of the Black Panther story.

Pretty much every superhero movie is a retread of another superhero movie story, Black Panther included.

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I think Awkwafina is really funny but I can totally see how to some people she is just too grating and abrasive

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