Current Events > Facepalm moments in Falcon and The Winter Soldier: *Spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bad guy terrorists: Bomb and kill hundreds of innocent people

Also bad guy terrorists: Stand around dumbstruck when they fight and kill Fake Captain America's best friend :/

It reminds me of when we'd play roughhousing as kids and then someone would cry because they hurt their eye or got legitimately hurt when horse fighting around.

It's like they were thinking "wow durr, people really die if they are killed? They really die if we punch them with our super strength?"
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Blowing someone up in impersonal. They set off the bomb and went away. This was like the first time I think they saw themselves murder someone.

For me it is the hate that Walker got for his action. Those guys blow up people and killed his best friend. Walker did nothing wrong.

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cjsdowg posted...

Blowing someone up in impersonal. They set off the bomb and went away. This was like the first time I think they saw themselves murder someone.

This.

If you look back and talk to soldiers from WW1 and WW2 , hardly any killed anyone outside of the Russia/German front.

Nearly all combat deaths were bombs and artillery. Something like 85+%

There's a big difference between a personal dirty killing and planting a bomb.

Tons of people who could explode a bomb in a shopping mall would pussy out of smashing a dude's head in with a rock.

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All of Falcons speech

Especially the bit about "needing to put down anarchists in Hong Kong" and "stomping out the illegitimate state of Palestine"

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But seriously all joking aside, the stupid kid this season is one of the dumbest villain decision ideas ever. This annoying 15 year old looking girl is the leader of the terrorist group? Wtf? This show is a real miss antagonist wise
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cjsdowg posted...

Blowing someone up in impersonal. They set off the bomb and went away. This was like the first time I think they saw themselves murder someone.

For me it is the hate that Walker got for his action. Those guys blow up people and killed his best friend. Walker did nothing wrong.

This is fair, it might have been their first direct kill
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Did they ever show Bucky with super strength in the movies? This show seems like the only time where they outright show off that he's a super like lifting a boat engine by himself and stuff like that. Before that I honestly thought he was just like regular/slightly above regular but with a metal arm
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saspa posted...

Did they ever show Bucky with super strength in the movies? This show seems like the only time where they outright show off that he's a super like lifting a boat engine by himself and stuff like that. Before that I honestly thought he was just like regular/slightly above regular but with a metal arm

I don't recall specifics but it's definitely more than "slightly above regular." I'd go with significantly or drastically above regular

So like Cap was able to pull in a helicopter in winter soldier, but bucky wasn't quite able to lift the engine up (if it's the scene i'm thinking of that you're talking about), he was just able to basically hold it from falling, which is less of a feat than cap's actively pulling of the helicopter.

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Yeah I remember specifically in Civil War, he actually lost against the new breed of super soldiers in a fight during the flashback, which made me think he wasn't that strong.
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Damn lol Sharon is the bad guy?
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saspa posted...

Yeah I remember specifically in Civil War, he actually lost against the new breed of super soldiers in a fight during the flashback, which made me think he wasn't that strong.

Yeah so it could be that those new breeds (who all died) were stronger, but bucky survived anyways so he's not as strong as that new breed

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So... are we supposed to like the baron zemo in this? Is that wrong? I can't help but like him even though he killed black panther's father. I mean dude actually destroyed the vials, gotta give respect for that even if I don't 100% agree with his reasoning. But it kinda felt cathartic when he did and when he orchestrated bombing the last super soldiers, wrong as it was...
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saspa posted...

So... are we supposed to like the baron zemo in this? Is that wrong? I can't help but like him even though he killed black panther's father. I mean dude actually destroyed the vials, gotta give respect for that even if I don't 100% agree with his reasoning. But it kinda felt cathartic when he did and when he orchestrated bombing the last super soldiers, wrong as it was...

Could be opening him up to an anti-hero spot on a future team.

So no closure on that Sharon thread and her being the power broker, whatever that was?

She's just straight up evil now?
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Is it because she was so upset with Steve making out with her when he was technically her uncle that she went crazy or somethin' lol
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Lol Elaine is in this? Wonder who she was? Who's the contessa? Or is it... madam viper? Hydra?
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daynlokki posted...

Could be opening him up to an anti-hero spot on a future team.

The dark avengers maybe? Anyway he was already in prison, now he's on raft prison, but I don't get why he wasn't in original prison, and there should have been a lot more hulaboo about his escaping in the first place, I should think
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cjsdowg posted...

For me it is the hate that Walker got for his action. Those guys blow up people and killed his best friend. Walker did nothing wrong.

Of course he got hate. It was a brutal decapitation(?) using the shield or whatever captured on video and social media, of course people are gonna be horrified, and of course the government are gonna care about the optics of that and discharge him and pretend that they the military don't do that and it's all roses on their end. So that people are continually fooled.

But yeah I disliked him in general, especially compared to Zemo. He seemed like a privileged dude who had it mostly easy all his life and got upset when things didn't go his way like he's used to, which they probably made intentional to contrast with someone like Sam or other race related, non white people.
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I still don't know if I agree with the overall thesis of the show regarding Captain America. No one gave a shit about him for 50 years, why they acting like the world desperately needs a captain america.

Hell he was literally a fugitive for like half his comeback in-universe... and it's only Chris Evans' great performance that was noteworthy, not the character of Captain America. It's why we were fine with stuff like the shield frisbee, and its weird boomerang feature.

I know they had Captain America worship as far back as WS with the museum exhibits and whatnot but still...

It reminds me of that superman returns subplot about "whether the world needs a superman"
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saspa posted...

Of course he got hate. It was a brutal decapitation(?) using the shield or whatever captured on video and social media, of course people are gonna be horrified, and of course the government are gonna care about the optics of that and discharge him and pretend that they the military don't do that and it's all roses on their end. So that people are continually fooled.

But yeah I disliked him in general, especially compared to Zemo. He seemed like a privileged dude who had it mostly easy all his life and got upset when things didn't go his way like he's used to, which they probably made intentional to contrast with someone like Sam or other race related, non white people.

For me I loved John. He was the only person who seemed to care that they murdered a hero. And the girl as the end practically said black lives don't matter. Beyond that before this happen, he tried his best to work with Sam and Bucky and Bucky was an asshole to him for no reason. Last point. Both Sams and Bucky kill count is higher. If the government was going after him that would be one thing. But they should have talked to him and place of just trying to fight.


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A lot of people suspect American Agent and Baron will be in Thunderbolts.

Also its Madame Hydra and we were supposed to already see her in BW iirc but COVID messed that up.

Also the original premise was that the Flag Smashers would release an airborne virus thatd infect half the world and send it into a pandemic and you can probably see why they changed up the story a little.
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cjsdowg posted...

For me I loved John. He was the only person who seemed to care that they murdered a hero. And the girl as the end practically said black lives don't matter. Beyond that before this happen, he tried his best to work with Sam and Bucky and Bucky was an asshole to him for no reason. Last point. Both Sams and Bucky kill count is higher. If the government was going after him that would be one thing. But they should have talked to him and place of just trying to fight.

The fact that he actually cared about his friend, that was a dimension they added to make him likable, which worked because I did like that, and made him more than a one-note sleazy guy.

But he kinda indirectly caused it because he wouldn't let Sam lead point on talking to Karli, even though admittedly that was clearly a lost cause (not gonna start on this stupid villain again)

Then again it seems like they wanted to redeem him because not only does he help out in the final fight, he even abandons chasing Karli to try and save the truck load of people.

So yeah he's not some one-note guy, but it's also quite clear that being well liked and a celebrity to the public was important to him, moreso than "the right thing" (whatever that may be) and he also wanted power. He reminds me of that one good guy turned bad in Jessica Jones season 1. The whole "road to hell is paved with good intentions" sorta thing.
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saspa posted...

Of course he got hate. It was a brutal decapitation(?) using the shield or whatever captured on video and social media, of course people are gonna be horrified, and of course the government are gonna care about the optics of that and discharge him and pretend that they the military don't do that and it's all roses on their end. So that people are continually fooled.

But yeah I disliked him in general, especially compared to Zemo. He seemed like a privileged dude who had it mostly easy all his life and got upset when things didn't go his way like he's used to, which they probably made intentional to contrast with someone like Sam or other race related, non white people.

He was supposed to contrast Steve Rogers

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It was just a dumb show in general, lmao.

Take Johnny Walker. He's a war veteran. He fights a whole team full of super-powered terrorists in Ep 2 (I think) who are stronger than him, never loses his cool, and is still cool to Sam and Bucky despite their overt hostility.

The next time we see him in action, they all converge on the bad guy...and suddenly with no explanation he's a teenage bully, picking fights with them and literally going on a tantrum and pacing around on like a hot-tempered school delinquent in detention because he had to wait a minute for Sam to talk before going in, and doesn't even manage to wait. wtf?

The weird part is they then proceed to gradually drive him into a corner - but only AFTER he already had a mental breakdown and did a 180 personality shift for literally no reason. wtf.

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saspa posted...

But he kinda indirectly caused it because he wouldn't let Sam lead point on talking to Karli, even though admittedly that was clearly a lost cause (not gonna start on this stupid villain again)

Sam and Bucky were also immediately and constantly assholes to him despite him dropping in to save them.

Hes already had problems with them. And now suddenly Sam and Buck expect him to compromise with their plan to talk with a terrorist.

Tbh, Walker was the most sane person the whole show. Sam and Bucky were sabotaging him every step of the way, so getting pissed was very relatable imo.

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Oh have to add. While I did like Walker. I also liked him getting beat up by the Wakanda Warriors.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

A lot of people suspect American Agent and Baron will be in Thunderbolts.

Also its Madame Hydra and we were supposed to already see her in BW iirc but COVID messed that up.

Also the original premise was that the Flag Smashers would release an airborne virus thatd infect half the world and send it into a pandemic and you can probably see why they changed up the story a little.

Holy shit it is madam hydra O_O !?

Also Even forgetting the pandemic we're currently in, that premise sounds like a terrible idea and would make me hate these trash villains even more. They're not even the "love to hate" type of villains, they're just garbage nonsensical ones.
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

Sam and Bucky were also immediately and constantly assholes to him despite him dropping in to save them.

Hes already had problems with them. And now suddenly Sam and Buck expect him to compromise with their plan to talk with a terrorist.

Tbh, Walker was the most sane person the whole show. Sam and Bucky were sabotaging him every step of the way, so getting pissed was very relatable imo.

They had misplaced anger towards him because he was carrying Steve's shield which the government gave to him after Sam had intended for the shield to be "retired" to preserve capam's legacy. So when they saw him they saw disrespecting steve's memory
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While Karli wasnt the best baddie Marvel has ever done, she wasnt as bad as everyone makes her out to be.

These people lived in a world with half the people just vanishing and now everyone randomly comes back? Yeah, theres gonna be some pushback to that, especially when the governments are like lol your problem.

Their whole thing was trying to kill half the world because they got adjusted to the new normal and wanted to go back. It didnt help that the worlds government were less than useless.

Like I said, she/the Flag Smashers wasnt the best, but she wasnt the worst comic villain Ive seen.
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cjsdowg posted...

Oh have to add. While I did like Walker. I also liked him getting beat up by the Wakanda Warriors.

What was up with that. If they wanted to kill zemo they could have done it in his little prison any time. I thought they wanted to give him "Wakandan Justice" whatever that entails but then they just hand him over to the raft prison? Which is a non-wakandan, US run institution? (Or former Shield institution, I forget where we stand on their existence)
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

While Karli wasnt the best baddie Marvel has ever done, she wasnt as bad as everyone makes her out to be.

These people lived in a world with half the people just vanishing and now everyone randomly comes back? Yeah, theres gonna be some pushback to that, especially when the governments are like lol your problem.

Their whole thing was trying to kill half the world because they got adjusted to the new normal and wanted to go back. It didnt help that the worlds government were less than useless.

Like I said, she/the Flag Smashers wasnt the best, but she wasnt the worst comic villain Ive seen.

Don't get me wrong, conceptually yes those terrorists had their own internal logic not unlike eco-terrorists or other so called noble goals of groups with extreme measures.

But she in particular is just so bad and aggravating, a damn kid given such important status, I kept waiting for everyone to tell her shut up and go to your room or something, instead of taking her seriously or even remotely humoring her.

Then the Sharon is the big bad evil boss twist is thrown out there, and I thought they were gonna show how she was the one who instilled these ideas into Karli, instead of this teenage girl thinking she's got the world all figured out, which would have made more sense.
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I think living in a war torn area that has extra chaos thrown in cause of the Blip is enough to instill anti-government ideas into a group of refugees.

Remember, these people were also treated terribly as well.

Still had no personality.
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saspa posted...

If they wanted to kill zemo

They didn't want to kill him. They wanted him to serve his time, as T'Challa said in Civil War.

sktgamer_13dude posted...

I think living in a war torn area that has extra chaos thrown in cause of the Blip is enough to instill anti-government ideas into a group of refugees.

Remember, these people were also treated terribly as well.

Still had no personality.

Yeah they really should have gone into that more, heck in the beginning I didn't even understand what the heck they were even talking about since I didn't really remember the events of avengers 3/3.5 and the whole ridiculous blip thing
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saspa posted...

What was up with that. If they wanted to kill zemo they could have done it in his little prison any time. I thought they wanted to give him "Wakandan Justice" whatever that entails but then they just hand him over to the raft prison? Which is a non-wakandan, US run institution? (Or former Shield institution, I forget where we stand on their existence)

They just wanted justice. They were fine with him being in jail until Bucky broke him out. Putting him in the safe-ER place.

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How about the brilliant idea Sharon, Bucky, and Falcon had... Of bringing Zemo to the only guy capable of making the serum and leaving him unsupervised.

Or when they told Zemo that he can't make a move without their permission, only for him to immediately start giving them orders and wandering off on his own.

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KogaSteelfang posted...

How about the brilliant idea Sharon, Bucky, and Falcon had... Of bringing Zemo to the only guy capable of making the serum and leaving him unsupervised.

Or when they told Zemo that he can't make a move without their permission, only for him to immediately start giving them orders and wandering off on his own.

Or immediately forgiving him for shooting the guy and going "oh you!" and *shrug* "that's our zemo" *studio audience laughter*
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"MaMa DoNyA"

*nails on chalkboard sound*
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"stop calling her a terrorist"
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Like others have said, the intro should have been the chaos of perspective of people who have settled in their new lives suddenly having to deal with people coming back which was the scene that was really missing for the Flagsmashers

They just talk about this stuff (after the fact no less) and don't show. Hell not only do they not do a basic film process of show don't tell, they don't even tell sometimes. Seems like a very lazy and outright misstep on the showrunners part to forget about such a crucial detail.
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saspa posted...

They just talk about this stuff (after the fact no less) and don't show. Hell not only do they not do a basic film process of show don't tell, they don't even tell sometimes. Seems like a very lazy and outright misstep on the showrunners part to forget about such a crucial detail.

They for some reason just treated this show like a movie. I was expecting Bucky and Sam's friends to be supporting characters, but instead they only appear at the beginning and end, like a typical movie framework. Sometimes in the show it's like they didn't realize they had additional time in this format to explore things, and just didn't bother.

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I actually got that vibe from these disney plus shows in general, that they're like mini movies and being directed/presented as such. Seems that sentiment is going around
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KogaSteelfang posted...

Of bringing Zemo to the only guy capable of making the serum and leaving him unsupervised.

I thought he just Meth Damon executed the dude before anyone could react, not that he was unsupervised.

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DrizztLink posted...

I thought he just Meth Damon executed the dude before anyone could react, not that he was unsupervised.

He was free to wander around till he found a gun. I'd consider that unsupervised. Also the scene where he straight up left to hang out with kids and Bucky and Falcon just came along afterward.

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John Walker did nothing wrong and it's laughable that the US government would punish him for killing a terrorist who was complicit in the deaths of countless.
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KogaSteelfang posted...

He was free to wander around till he found a gun. I'd consider that unsupervised.

Touch.

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saspa posted...

Or immediately forgiving him for shooting the guy and going "oh you!" and *shrug* "that's our zemo" *studio audience laughter*

I would absolutely watch a comedy called That's Our Zemo.

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lilORANG posted...

John Walker did nothing wrong and it's laughable that the US government would punish him for killing a terrorist who was complicit in the deaths of countless.

He did something that any soldier would get court martialed over.

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codey posted...

He did something that any soldier would get court martialed over.

Which was? Killing an active terrorist? A terrorist that JUST tried to kill him ten seconds ago?

Sam was doing similar things episode one.

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