Current Events > Football player kills tinder date who was a man, saying they were a woman.

(+) Yeah! (+)

TheVipaGTS posted...

This is what transphobia and stigma against gay people breeds.

It's not what the guy expected and he was deceived so no reasonable person can blame him for being hurt and betrayed, however him resorting to violence and murder instead of going to law enforcement and just getting the other person arrested is wrong.

legendary_zell posted...

@sktgamer_13dude What don't you understand about the fact that the murderer likely didn't have any of the information you're talking about here? Whether it's true or false. You can't be justified in acting information you don't have. And you can't be justified in hurting a random person just because it later turns out they were a bad person.

Also, this topic is full of victim blaming and gay/trans panic bs. Do better, CE.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/member-features/gay-trans-panic-defense/

Its not gay/trans panic if someone tells you theyre a female and then you find out theyre actually male and dont even identify as female.

Its actually closer to rape than anything, but from the little reading Ive seen, idk if Virginia has a rape by fraud statue.

In any event, the player should likely get at least manslaughter charges for beating the shit out of someone and leaving them to die. He wont get murder charges, even disregarding the history that CE wants to disregard.

You cant tell someone one thing and then switch it up when it comes to sexual relations.
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Garioshi posted...

I dunno, do you think people should disclose that they will literally murder you if they find out you're trans?

What do you think?

To be clear, not all of us were waiving pitchforks clamoring for the death penalty. I, for one just want justice for the victim of this grisly crime, regardless of their reputation. I'm actually against the death penalty but if that's what is decided is justice, so be it.

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Fony posted...

Fony posted...
Men have no rights and can't be raped, cis have no rights when in an entanglement with trans. Sorry, that's how it's viewed generally. You have no right to know, you have no right to reject them after finding out. You must continue to engage sexually or else you're fobic.

It was stupid and incorrect the first time you posted it, no need to quote yourself

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Wii_Shaker posted...

Murder is murder and transphobic vestiges have no place in the justice system.

The guy was not killed because he as Trasnlated , he was killed because he catfished someone.

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Fony posted...

Men have no rights and can't be raped, cis have no rights when in an entanglement with trans. Sorry, that's how it's viewed generally. You have no right to know, you have no right to reject them after finding out. You must continue to engage sexually or else you're fobic.

Just for my pal @eston

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Oh man you sure got me bro

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cjsdowg posted...

The guy was not killed because he as Trasnlated , he was killed because he catfished someone.

That doesn't change the validity of my post in anyway.

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awesome999 posted...

Refusing to be romantically involved with a trans person isn't transphobia
Especially when the trans person was actually a gay man according to the reports

Its one thing to refuse. Its another to get so upset that you beat that person to death. That doesnt happen without the negative stigma. That would be like if your tinder date weighed more than her profile said, so you beat her to death when you saw her. And then saying well, having a preference with regard to what weight you like isnt wrong. Yes, there is a stigma against bigger people, but not quite on the same level as gay or trans people.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Its not gay/trans panic if someone tells you theyre a female and then you find out theyre actually male and dont even identify as female.

Its actually closer to rape than anything, but from the little reading Ive seen, idk if Virginia has a rape by fraud statue.

In any event, the player should likely get at least manslaughter charges for beating the shit out of someone and leaving them to die. He wont get murder charges, even disregarding the history that CE wants to disregard.

You cant tell someone one thing and then switch it up when it comes to sexual relations.

So you're not going to acknowledge that you brought up irrelevant information and did the whole "he's not saint" victim blaming we see in police brutality cases? That's really dishonest.

This is certainly gay/trans panic because the guy reacted with violence to the idea of doing something with another man. If it's not trans panic because the victim doesn't identify as a woman, then it's just standard gay panic. There's no way this happens without that gender identity/sexual orientation aspect and those defenses are banned in Virginia.

You don't get to react with violence in this situation. That's a hate crime. If you feel that you were deceived or taken advantage of, take it up in court, not with your fists and in a fit of rage. If you use your fists, that's a hate crime and you're a murderer.


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Wii_Shaker posted...

That doesn't change the validity of my post in anyway.

I mean I never said the football player was in the right or that he didnt deserve punishment and everyone is attacking me like I think the person deserved it.

I dont, but I also dont think people should talk as negatively as they were about the player either. Its a sad situation that brings emotional responses out of a lot of people because of the LGBTQ+ part.
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Wii_Shaker posted...

That doesn't change the validity of my post in anyway.

Ive watched the show catfish about people being catfished and not once have i heard of anyone killing anyone. Its all sexual orientation here. They even had a catfish (male) catfished by another male (pretending to be female) and nobody is dead. Online catfishing is a little different tho since they dont actually meet in person tho.

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legendary_zell posted...

This is certainly gay/trans panic because the guy reacted with violence to the idea of doing something with another man.

The victim literally gave the guy oral sex at a previous meeting. They had been communicating for awhile with the player believing the person was a female. Not a MtF trans person, but a full on female. He never told the other person. Thats rape considering he only consented because he thought the person was someone else.

Please, try to point out where I said violence was an acceptable response though. Id love to see it. Just absolutely would love to see it.

ffs, I even said the person should likely get manslaughter charges. Thats not me saying violence is acceptable.

jfc, its like CE wakes up and chooses not to read things.
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Wii_Shaker posted...

That doesn't change the validity of my post in anyway.

Actually it does.

You decided to throw it out there of transphobia to imply he beat her up because he was transphobic.

honestly anyone saying the kid should get death penalty for that has to be messed up,
aggravated assault and manslaughter I suppose?

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Its not gay/trans panic if someone tells you theyre a female and then you find out theyre actually male and dont even identify as female.

Its actually closer to rape than anything, but from the little reading Ive seen, idk if Virginia has a rape by fraud statue.

In any event, the player should likely get at least manslaughter charges for beating the shit out of someone and leaving them to die. He wont get murder charges, even disregarding the history that CE wants to disregard.

You cant tell someone one thing and then switch it up when it comes to sexual relations.

The gay panic defense is basically one of three things
1) "the gay person existing made me so angry I killed them"
2) "I was hit on by a gay guy and I'm not gay so I got so mad I killed them"
3) "I was going to/ did engage in a sexual act then at a later point in time, got so angry at the idea of having done something gay that I killed them"

This is really basic stuff, and conjecturing off the word of a killer without any proof of their interactions on tinder or whatever is just garbage on your part.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Please, try to point out where I said violence was an acceptable response though. Id love to see it. Just absolutely would love to see it.

It's rather telling some go through a gymnastics to spin posts. One shouldn't have to add a disclaimer to every post that they aren't condoning murder.

Instead of responding to the contents of the actual post, they respond to something never actually said based on what they "feel" someone meant.

metallica846 posted...

Not sure why people think this isnt a murder case. Maybe not premeditated but its a murder and not manslaughter imo.

isnt it manslaughter when the killing is unintentional?

sktgamer_13dude posted...

I mean I never said the football player was in the right or that he didnt deserve punishment and everyone is attacking me like I think the person deserved it.

I dont, but I also dont think people should talk as negatively as they were about the player either. Its a sad situation that brings emotional responses out of a lot of people because of the LGBTQ+ part.

It's sad that a discriminated against group gets emotional at the murder of someone for being gay? Huh. Are you all right, like, it shouldn't be hard to understand why they might be angry at the murder of someone for being LGBT.

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Hitting the person as many times as he did and stomping on their face is pretty clearly attempted murder, the person actually died so this is a murder charge not manslaughter.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

The victim literally gave the guy oral sex at a previous meeting. They had been communicating for awhile with the player believing the person was a female. Not a MtF trans person, but a full on female. He never told the other person. Thats rape considering he only consented because he thought the person was someone else.

Please, try to point out where I said violence was an acceptable response though. Id love to see it. Just absolutely would love to see it.

ffs, I even said the person should likely get manslaughter charges. Thats not me saying violence is acceptable.

jfc, its like CE wakes up and chooses not to read things.

This is what transphobic people think that trans people are always doing. They always think they are "actually men trying to trick them into doing something gay". The whole defense is based on the idea of reacting to the revelation that this person is "actually" a man. That's what happened here.

And even if you don't accept that, assuming this person wasn't trans, then this is literally just gay panic. "The gay panic defense is a legal strategy in which a defendant claims they acted in a state of violent, temporary insanity, committing assault or murder, because of unwanted same-sex sexual advances."

I never said that you said violence was acceptable. I've only criticized you for introducing unverified information that the murderer didn't have in an attempt to...I don't know what you're attempting to do here. And now I'm criticizing you for not knowing what gay/trans panic is.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Thats rape considering he only consented because he thought the person was someone else.

Is this a legal fact or just an opinion? If someone lies about their career to have sex with someone is that rape? It's also a little strange that we only expect trans people to disclose all this. I've never said to a woman "Hey just a heads up I was born a man" before engaging. I do get the point that he may have felt wronged after finding out, but I'm not sure this falls under rape.

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BlueTigerLion posted...

Death penalty

But but but he could be innocent so he gets a comfy prison cell for life

t5yvxc posted...

It's rather telling some go through a gymnastics to spin posts. One shouldn't have to add a disclaimer to every post that they aren't condoning murder.

Instead of responding to the contents of the actual post, they respond to something never actually said based on what they "feel" someone meant.

Lmao, this is blatant projection. I never accused him of that, he and you are the ones who felt things and decided that's what I was saying. And he's the one who hasn't responded to the content of multiple posts.


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t5yvxc posted...

It's rather telling some go through a gymnastics to spin posts. One shouldn't have to add a disclaimer to every post that they aren't condoning murder.

I literally got modded in a post because someone thought I was saying the person deserved it. I add the disclaimer so you fucks wont misrepresent my argument again.

gunplagirl posted...

1) "the gay person existing made me so angry I killed them"
2) "I was hit on by a gay guy and I'm not gay so I got so mad I killed them"
3) "I was going to/ did engage in a sexual act then at a later point in time, got so angry at the idea of having done something gay that I killed them"

If you look at the law for Virginia, its just that you cant use the persons actual/perceived sex/gender/gender identity as the defense.

That wouldnt be his defense. Itd be I panicked because the person technically raped me the first time we had sexual relations. He didnt kill the guy because he was gay. Just because the guy is gay or trans doesnt mean you can use the panic defense.

Again, he doesnt get to battery someone for that. He should have just left when he found out the person was a guy catfishing him.
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justaguy3492 posted...

Is this a legal fact or just an opinion? If someone lies about their career to have sex with someone is that rape? It's also a little strange that we only expect trans people to disclose all this. I've never said to a woman "Hey just a heads up I was born a man" before engaging. I do get the point that he may have felt wronged after finding out, but I'm not sure this falls under rape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

just googled it and feels like it would be voluntary manslaughter moreso than murder charge, Im not a lawyer but the crime that happened seems consistent with the definition

It's also notable that this is the only topic where CE is eager to expand the definition of rape. Mostly, people here complain about how the definition is too broad and feminists think everything is rape and blah blah blah.

But when it comes to gay or trans people being sexually active without publishing a manifesto first, just lying or omitting information is enough and LGBT people should assume everyone would be mortally offended enough to consider it rape to have sex with them without a disclaimer.

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legendary_zell posted...

It's also notable that this is the only topic where CE is eager to expand the definition of rape. Mostly, people here complain about how the definition is too broad and feminists think everything is rape and blah blah blah.

But when it comes to gay or trans people being sexually active without publishing a manifesto first, just lying or omitting information is enough and LGBT people should assume everyone would be mortally offended enough to consider it rape to have sex with them without a disclaimer.

initially didnt think it was rape, then with the info (if accurate) coming to light that the gay dude drugs people to get to suck their dick then yea it has a rapey vibe

sktgamer_13dude posted...

I literally got modded in a post because someone thought I was saying the person deserved it. I add the disclaimer so you fucks wont misrepresent my argument again.

If you look at the law for Virginia, its just that you cant use the persons actual/perceived sex/gender/gender identity as the defense.

That wouldnt be his defense. Itd be I panicked because the person technically raped me the first time we had sexual relations. He didnt kill the guy because he was gay. Just because the guy is gay or trans doesnt mean you can use the panic defense.

Again, he doesnt get to battery someone for that. He should have just left when he found out the person was a guy catfishing him.

"I'm not defending the killer but I'm definitely going to attack the character murder victim with accusations of rape without actual evidence"

Like. Dude. Please take like twenty steps back and think about how others might interpret your continued actions. Because it only really leaves me with one thing to assume and that's not something good.

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Tenlaar posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

Almost every single one of these examples is rape someone of a different identity entirely as in impersonating someone's bf or pretending to be a doctor or something. The one example that could be applied in a similar situation is from UK.

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legendary_zell posted...

It's also notable that this is the only topic where CE is eager to expand the definition of rape. Mostly, people here complain about how the definition is too broad and feminists think everything is rape and blah blah blah.

But when it comes to gay or trans people being sexually active without publishing a manifesto first, just lying or omitting information is enough and LGBT people should assume everyone would be mortally offended enough to consider it rape to have sex with them without a disclaimer.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-61/

There was no force, coercion, etc. There was no use of drugs to get the murderer in to an altered state of mind.

Ergo, not rape.

But yeah, they wanna make life for lgbt people even harder to make their lives easier.

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legendary_zell posted...

Almost every single one of these examples is rape someone of a different identity entirely as in impersonating someone's bf or pretending to be a doctor or something. The one example that could be applied in a similar situation is from UK.

...yes?

legendary_zell posted...

But when it comes to gay or trans people being sexually active without publishing a manifesto first, just lying or omitting information is enough and LGBT people should assume everyone would be mortally offended enough to consider it rape to have sex with them without a disclaimer.

Who the fuck said that LGBTQ+ people need to post a manifesto before engaging in sexual relations.

How hard is it to tell someone "hey, I'm actually a male and just used female pictures and a female name to get you to come over. do you still want to do this?" the first time it happens. Fuck, if the kid beat the shit out of him the first time, especially after doing something like that, throw the book at the kid. That's an actual hate crime.

But when someone gets told "hey this is a female that's been contacting you since you got on campus and that it was a female who engaged in this sexual act" and then you find out it wasn't, that's scarring, no matter how you feel about LGBTQ+ people. I feel like a supporter of their rights and I believe in their equality and in marriage and whatnot, and I'd still be pretty upset if someone said they were one thing and then actually was another. And let's say the shoe was on the other foot and the football player expected it to be a male and the person was a female? It's the same situation in that it's rape by deception, even if there's no rape by deception/fraud laws in that state.

Again it's a sad story that elicits an incredibly strong emotional response in a lot of people because the victim in the assault was a member of the LGBTQ+ community. But that doesn't mean you can write away anything that person did to put themselves in that situation (and no, that's not equating what he did to "wearing slutty clothes and the whole 'they were asking for it' bullshit. the guy knew what he was doing if he was catfishing people) and that they did no wrong.

tl;dr - he didn't kill the person because the person was gay. He killed them because he was deceived and he panicked and created a shitty situation. He deserves punishment for what he did, but it's not a hate crime just because the victim happens to be gay and the kid doesn't deserve the death penalty in any capacity or to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

This is the last post I'm gonna make in this topic because CE refuses to not be emotional in topics like this and people refuse to read all of someones post and just get outraged at snippets.

gunplagirl posted...

But yeah, they wanna make life for lgbt people even harder to make their lives easier.

Or the guy could have not catfished someone.

I don't know why that's allowed for an LGBTQ+ person.

If the sexual preferences were switched in this situation (victim is cis, attacker is LGBTQ+), I'd have the same stance. Victim didn't deserve to get attacked, attacker deserves some punishment but not the entire book thrown at them. I'd argue most of CE wouldn't have the same reaction though. I'd argue you guys wouldn't be as angry at the attacker and wouldn't be as sympathetic to the victim.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

I feel like a supporter of their rights and I believe in their equality and in marriage and whatnot, and I'd still be pretty upset if someone said they were one thing and then actually was another.

Yeah, no. You're not a supporter of LGBT rights. Not even close. You can say you are, but your words are clearly not those of someone whose support is helpful. You'd be more like a bag full of bricks strapped to our backs. A liability, so much so that even if we take you off you'd still get in the way.

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Disgusting POS

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Disgusting

Tenlaar posted...

...yes?

That's a different country with a different legal system and different laws. As gunplagirl showed, Virginia requires force for there to be rape, so you'd need an example from Virginia to indicate that this concept even applies there.
sktgamer_13dude posted...

Who the fuck said that LGBTQ+ people need to post a manifesto before engaging in sexual relations.

How hard is it to tell someone "hey, I'm actually a male and just used female pictures and a female name to get you to come over. do you still want to do this?" the first time it happens. Fuck, if the kid beat the shit out of him the first time, especially after doing something like that, throw the book at the kid. That's an actual hate crime.

But when someone gets told "hey this is a female that's been contacting you since you got on campus and that it was a female who engaged in this sexual act" and then you find out it wasn't, that's scarring, no matter how you feel about LGBTQ+ people. I feel like a supporter of their rights and I believe in their equality and in marriage and whatnot, and I'd still be pretty upset if someone said they were one thing and then actually was another. And let's say the shoe was on the other foot and the football player expected it to be a male and the person was a female? It's the same situation in that it's rape by deception, even if there's no rape by deception/fraud laws in that state.

Again it's a sad story that elicits an incredibly strong emotional response in a lot of people because the victim in the assault was a member of the LGBTQ+ community. But that doesn't mean you can write away anything that person did to put themselves in that situation (and no, that's not equating what he did to "wearing slutty clothes and the whole 'they were asking for it' bullshit. the guy knew what he was doing if he was catfishing people) and that they did no wrong.

tl;dr - he didn't kill the person because the person was gay. He killed them because he was deceived and he panicked and created a shitty situation. He deserves punishment for what he did, but it's not a hate crime just because the victim happens to be gay and the kid doesn't deserve the death penalty in any capacity or to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

This is the last post I'm gonna make in this topic because CE refuses to not be emotional in topics like this and people refuse to read all of someones post and just get outraged at snippets.

Or the guy could have not catfished someone.

I don't know why that's allowed for an LGBTQ+ person.

If the sexual preferences were switched in this situation (victim is cis, attacker is LGBTQ+), I'd have the same stance. Victim didn't deserve to get attacked, attacker deserves some punishment but not the entire book thrown at them. I'd argue most of CE wouldn't have the same reaction though. I'd argue you guys wouldn't be as angry at the attacker and wouldn't be as sympathetic to the victim.

I spelled it out for you in my last post and you've even spelled it out here yourself, but you're not connecting the dots. If you get "upset" when something like this happens, and you find out that a man made unwanted sexual advances towards you and you "panic" and take violent action in response....that's gay panic dude. That's a textbook case. It's not just gay panic because the victim "happened to be gay", it's because the murderer reacted to homosexual activity with murder.

He had the option to not respond with murder, but he did. It doesn't need to happen the first time for it to be a hate crime. It is.

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legendary_zell posted...

That's a different country with a different legal system and different laws. As gunplagirl showed, Virginia requires force for there to be rape, so you'd need an example from Virginia to indicate that this concept even applies there.

Somebody asked about the legal status of "rape by deception" and I gave a link to the wiki discussing it's current legal status in various areas, failed attempts at legislation, etc. I don't know why you are responding like that was me making an argument about something.

legendary_zell posted...

I spelled it out for you in my last post and you've even spelled it out here yourself, but you're not connecting the dots. If you get "upset" when something like this happens, and you find out that a man made unwanted sexual advances towards you and you "panic" and take violent action in response....that's gay panic dude. That's a textbook case. It's not just gay panic because the victim "happened to be gay", it's because the murderer reacted to homosexual activity with murder.

He had the option to not respond with murder, but he did. It doesn't need to happen the first time for it to be a hate crime. It is.

Advances is no where near the same thing as what happen here. If the claims of catfishing are true.


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gunplagirl posted...

Also, it's fucking psychopathy to say that people can't get upset at things like this. We're human and have feelings. Denying that at minimum makes me think you're a Kyle with holes all throughout your walls.

Oh, and sktgamer, if I recall, weren't you the CEman who had a girlfriend pass away? Did anyone tell you not to get emotional over it? No, probably not, because they had some basic degree of empathy.

This did was not killed in a hate crime. He was not killed because he was gay. He was killed because he tricked someone. He should not have been killed (full stop). But this is not an was not attack on the community. This was attack on a person because he didn't care about the sexual preferences of someone else.

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1) The guy who committed murder is guilty.
2) This is not a hate or transphobia crime.

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gunplagirl posted...

Oh, and sktgamer, if I recall, weren't you the CEman who had a girlfriend pass away? Did anyone tell you not to get emotional over it? No, probably not, because they had some basic degree of empathy.

How about you go fuck your self for comparing that situation to this.

Holy fuck, thats not even in the same realm. And you have audacity to think youre on the right side of morality.

Go fuck yourself.
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The status of the victim does nothing to justify their murder. The man who did this is 100% in the wrong, and any attempt to downplay it has transparent intent.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

How about you go fuck your self for comparing that situation to this.

Holy fuck, thats not even in the same realm. And you have audacity to think youre on the right side of morality.

Go fuck yourself.

Your feelings are valid. Why is it so hard for you to realize other people's feelings for other things are also valid? I've had at least a dozen friends die over the years because of hate crimes, medical abuse, and suicide as a result of a lifetime of mistreatment. Of course I'm going to get upset when someone LGBT gets murdered for being LGBT.

By all rights, I should have been the one to tell you to shove off earlier.

Know what I'm not going to do? Deny the validity or right for you to be upset. Because I'm not some sort of emotional manipulator.

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