Poll of the Day > Censorship, and do I give people too much credit?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I tend to think people are far more capable than is assumed to be true of them. When I receive new information I compare it to everything else I've learned and determine if it has a strong or weak correlation between them, then if any of those strong correlations reinforce or contradict. It has come to my attention that other people don't do this. I find this surprising. Is this right?

Apparently it's necessary to keep information from people due to their lack of critical thinking toward the information. Now if that is a common problem for other people how is anyone qualified to say what information should or should not be censored?

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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Apparently it's necessary to keep information from people due to their lack of critical thinking toward the information.

who claimed this?

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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

. Now if that is a common problem for other people how is anyone qualified to say what information should or should not be censored?

It's called the Marketplace of Ideas... this is why I tolerate the dishonest right and left and the earnest right. If someone puts out bad ideas they will wither and die as no one takes them, but like all marketplaces people are addicted to "junk food" and will often flock to it.

If you think the junk food analogy is too abstract... there is a direct correlation to people who eat excess junk food and people who believe false news and reports, it's partially tied to poverty but not entirely.

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Wtf are you going on about

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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Apparently it's necessary to keep information from people due to their lack of critical thinking toward the information. Now if that is a common problem for other people how is anyone qualified to say what information should or should not be censored?

If you're trying to push a narrative, you have to limit peoples' access to information. It's basically from the playbook of every authoritarian regime in history. If you want people to believe what you tell them, you have to restrict what they hear.


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Or conversely, you just have to make sure you come up with a more interesting lie than whatever truth you don't want them to know, because humans are stupid and prefer the pretty narrative over actual reality.
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Mead posted...

who claimed this?

I did. You quoted me saying it. It's my understanding of the justification for censorship drawn from past arguments made in favor off it. Do you not a method for drawing your own conclusions?

Lokarin posted...

It's called the Marketplace of Ideas...

I don't think it's working as intended. The point of censorship is to remove ideas from the market absent of a better idea to compete with it.

Lokarin posted...

If you think the junk food analogy is too abstract...

No, abstract is good.

Zeus posted...

If you want people to believe what you tell them, you have to restrict what they hear.

Yeah, that seems like the intent.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

humans are stupid and prefer the pretty narrative over actual reality.

Like the junk food example above, if this were so effective there wouldn't be a need to forcefully remove the less appealing ideas. People would just neglect them in favor of what they want to hear.

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So, what is the cognitive experience for everyone else like?

The first time you're told about something are you stuck with that information for the rest of your life and will only accept ideas which reinforce what you were already told?

Does every new piece of information overwrite any contradictory information until something else then contradicts that?

For the previous 2 I can see how censorship would limit that from happening.

Are there different categories of idea detailing which ones overwrite others?

Are you all part of a psychic hive mind which decides these things for you?

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Mead posted...

who claimed this?

The Liberal "government" here in Canada wants this.. bill c-10 I believe it's called? They want regulation on what people can post / say on the internet. They only want their leftist propaganda on the internet, so ya there.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I don't think it's working as intended. The point of censorship is to remove ideas from the market absent of a better idea to compete with it.

I disagree. The Marketplace of Ideas should only remove products that are outright poisonous (and I don't mean in a just 'muh toxic' way, but things like death threats)

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xjayguyx posted...

They want regulation on what people can post / say on the internet.

good, thats long overdue

the alternative is that people can lie to such an extent that it starts to breakdown all social cohesion and people detach from reality and start believing every lie that someone comes up with

there have to be checks in place or youre just left with chaos

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Mead posted...

good, thats long overdue

the alternative is that people can lie to such an extent that it starts to breakdown all social cohesion and people detach from reality and start believing every lie that someone comes up with

there have to be checks in place or youre just left with chaos

Wow...

xjayguyx posted...

The Liberal "government" here in Canada wants this.. bill c-10 I believe it's called? They want regulation on what people can post / say on the internet. They only want their leftist propaganda on the internet, so ya there.

C-10 mostly amounts to applying the same regulations that are on Canadian TV to the Internet, handled by the CRTC. Fortunately, the CRTC is thoroughly useless in every way, so I wouldn't expect it to actually do much. Really, I'd be more concerned about telecoms trying to manipulate things than "leftist propaganda," given the CRTC's record of now exactly standing up to them.

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Previously I thought reaching different conclusions from the same information was a result of opposing principles. Either one person prioritizes a set of shared values differently than another person, or they don't have values in common. Eventually I realized these had an underlying notion that other people have a thought process like mine. I'm now trying to come up with a cognitive model which isn't based on that notion.

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xjayguyx posted...

Wow...

Im happy to hear your counterpoint if you want to post it

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This is like reading Jordan Peterson if he was on ketamine.

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