Current Events > New Zealand wants to ban selling tobacco to anyone born after 2004

(+) Yeah! (+)

thronedfire2 posted...

there is no tobacco black market lol

You must be sheltered. You never heard of loosies?

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thronedfire2 posted...

there is no tobacco black market lol

If you buy a pack of smokes at a corner store in NYC, chances are very good there's a Missouri or Virginia tax stamp on the bottom.

Giant_Aspirin posted...

there absolutely is. people smuggle cigs into areas with high taxes and selling them "under the table" is definitely a thing. it's even mentioned in the articles that the NZ gov't recognizes this is a thing. it's also why Eric Garner was murdered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Eric_Garner

This.

There's a huge black market even with cigs being legal.

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You can make all the laws you want peeps are still gonna smoke and get cigarettes.

Its a good idea in theory but it wont do fuck all.

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ok I deleted my dumb post

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Personally, I'd be all good with simply "make smokers cover the cost of their healthcare, beyond that it's up to them".

Which New Zealand already does via extremely high tobacco taxes. Not exaggerating - a pack of 20 will set you back over NZ$30 these days (about US$23).

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Trumble posted...

Personally, I'd be all good with simply "make smokers cover the cost of their healthcare, beyond that it's up to them".

Which New Zealand already does via extremely high tobacco taxes. Not exaggerating - a pack of 20 will set you back over NZ$30 these days (about US$23).

Lol damn

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Balrog0 posted...

Lol damn

Yep. I started smoking in 2008, when an average pack was about $10 and a 30gm pouch was about $20.

It was about $20 for a pack of 20, or about $55 for a 30gm, when I quit in 2016. (The first major increase hit loose tobacco much harder than pre-rolled ciggies; the subsequent ones have been proportional.) I don't know what a 30gm costs these days.

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Trumble posted...

Yep. I started smoking in 2008, when an average pack was about $10 and a 30gm pouch was about $20.

It was about $20 for a pack of 20, or about $55 for a 30gm, when I quit in 2016. (The first major increase hit loose tobacco much harder than pre-rolled ciggies; the subsequent ones have been proportional.) I don't know what a 30gm costs these days.

Sounds good to me. Tax the shit out of cigs. People will quit because they can't afford it and the ones that can will pay higher taxes. Win win

Trumble posted...

Yep. I started smoking in 2008, when an average pack was about $10 and a 30gm pouch was about $20.

It was about $20 for a pack of 20, or about $55 for a 30gm, when I quit in 2016. (The first major increase hit loose tobacco much harder than pre-rolled ciggies; the subsequent ones have been proportional.) I don't know what a 30gm costs these days.

im in nz too. 30 grams are like $80-$100 bucks depending on brand preference. people are skeptic for the source on this article but it makes perfect sense. they want us to be a smoke free country by 2025 but there are simply too many people here already that will just never quit. thought they were gonna make cigs a script only thing like medication >_>

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Axiom posted...

Sounds good to me. Tax the shit out of cigs. People will quit because they can't afford it and the ones that can will pay higher taxes. Win win

in another topic like 2-3 weeks ago talking about cigarette taxes, someone here was raging about how that unfairly affects the poor. apparently some people get really angry about that.

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The poor have just as much of an ability to quit as anyone else does

Axiom posted...

The poor have just as much of an ability to quit as anyone else does

mhmm. and when i replied "if someone is too poor to afford cigarettes they should quit" the dude blocked me so idk

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Back_Stabbath posted...

they want us to be a smoke free country by 2025 but there are simply too many people here already that will just never quit.

"Smoke free 2025" is a misleading name in the first place, because the actual goal is "less than 5% of any given demographic group are smokers". To me, "smoke free" would outright imply no one smokes anymore, or at least not legally. (Not saying I support such a goal, just that that's what I'd take the term to mean if I didn't know otherwise.)

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Back_Stabbath posted...

but there are simply too many people here already that will just never quit

The great irony here is that increasingly restricting smoking to residences and personal vehicles, you're essentially forcing children to be exposed to secondhand smoke in places they can't really not be.

Gonna create a black market overnight. Or switch them all to vaping.

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Makeveli_lives posted...

Gonna create a black market overnight.

I wonder how lucrative it would be to set up an operation that smuggles banned videogames into Australia, and then smuggles cigarettes into New Zealand on the return trip.

Wait who exactly are we expecting to be fueling the black market here?
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Questionmarktarius posted...

I wonder how lucrative it would be to set up an operation that smuggles banned videogames into Australia, and then smuggles cigarettes into New Zealand on the return trip.

There's no need to smuggle cigarettes, they'd literally still be purchasable by a significant portion of the population.
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Bio1590 posted...

There's no need to smuggle cigarettes, they'd literally still be purchasable by a significant portion of the population.

So you're saying I should wait about twenty years then?

Questionmarktarius posted...

So you're saying I should wait about twenty years then?

You think there's legitimately going to be a black market for people wanting to buy cigarettes who aren't even born yet?

Like I literally would not be surprised if cigarettes were largely a thing of the past in 20 years.

But even then, the people who think NZ is going to immediately have some massive illegal cigarette trade immediately pop up when it's still legal for people to actually buy them are insane.
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Bio1590 posted...

But even then, the people who think NZ is going to immediately have some massive illegal cigarette trade immediately pop up when it's still legal for people to actually buy them are insane.

This is the correct answer. "Grandpa buys my smokes" is going to be a thing in NZ for a very long time. Probably until 2104 or thereabouts.

littlebro07 posted...

but muh FREEDUMB! Its mah RIGHT to give myself the lung cancer!

It objectively is.

I hate when share that shit with others. I worked at a pharmacy and people were so entitled about their right to smoke in the drive-through. But what people do in the privacy of their own homes, to themselves, is their business.

I hate cigarettes. Always have. But I respect a person's right to commit suicide if they choose to.

I got a feeling that if they succeed with their plan then in 2026 several new reasons will come up to tax things like alcohol more heavily to make up for lost taxes.

That's wack. It should be up the individual if they want to smoke or not.

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Didn't you just comment earlier today TC that you were ok with people smoking crack as long as it didn't hurt anybody else? So what about people who just smoke cigarettes on their patios etc? And if you're gonna play the drug-comparison-argument game in regards to comparing cigarettes with weed...you may as well go ahead and call for worldwide alcohol prohibition and a doubling down on restrictive laws against hard street drugs like meth, cocaine, etc.

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FortuneCookie posted...

But what people do in the privacy of their own homes, to themselves, is their business.

We all have a fundamental right to go to hell in the manner of our own choosing.
Smoking however, has nuance in that everyone around you is also smoking whether they want to or not.

See post #66.

Questionmarktarius posted...

This is the correct answer. "Grandpa buys my smokes" is going to be a thing in NZ for a very long time. Probably until 2104 or thereabouts.

I don't think grandparents or parents but older siblings or cousins. At least that'll be the problem at first when you still have kids born in like 2005-2008 in high school who have siblings/cousins born in 2003 or earlier. That age range that would already have kids smoking in it.

Plus at some point New Zealand will legalize weed.
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Bio1590 posted...

Plus at some point New Zealand will legalize weed.

give or take polonium, I guess...

FortuneCookie posted...

But what people do in the privacy of their own homes, to themselves, is their business.

So should we legislate that people who smoke can't have children, pets, or any guests in their home?
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Bio1590 posted...

So should we legislate that people who smoke can't have children, pets, or any guests in their home?

perhaps... mandatory patios?

I mean, if someone has a hateful disregard for the well-being of others, there's not really anything anything that can be done about it short of killing or confining that person. What are you going to do, arrest someone for being an asshole?

There are limits to how much you control other people. If we make smoking illegal for the benefit of pets, these same people will probably start throwing dogs bits of chocolate out of spite.

FortuneCookie posted...

I mean, if someone has a hateful disregard for the well-being of others, there's not really anything anything that can be done about it short of killing or confining that person. What are you going to do, arrest someone for being an asshole?

There are limits to how much you control other people. If we make smoking illegal for the benefit of pets, these same people will probably start throwing dogs bits of chocolate out of spite.

And that's when you put their sociopathic asses in prison
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Bio1590 posted...

So should we legislate that people who smoke can't have children, pets, or any guests in their home?

it's already illegal to smoke in the same room as children in many states

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Bio1590 posted...

But even then, the people who think NZ is going to immediately have some massive illegal cigarette trade immediately pop up when it's still legal for people to actually buy them are insane.

Price difference. There's already somewhat of a black market because of how insanely high the price tag is on legal cigarettes here.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The great irony here is that increasingly restricting smoking to residences and personal vehicles, you're essentially forcing children to be exposed to secondhand smoke in places they can't really not be.

Smoking (or even vaping) in a car with someone under 16 present is already illegal in NZ. Regarding the residences - "no smoking inside" policies are basically universal for rentals these days, and most people who get in a position to own their own home (keeping in mind NZ's housing affordability situation is worse than even California's) are not going to want to wreck it by smoking inside.

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and what happens after when those who smoke illegally build an addiction?

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ShineboxPhil posted...

and what happens after when those who smoke illegally build an addiction?

They quit when there is no one left to legally sell smokes to.

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Ah, the old LUE tactic

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CommonGrackle posted...

lol my work has RT blocked. maybe that's a good thing.

It is. Rt is propaganda
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Atralis posted...

I've heard from reliable pot heads that it magically cures cancer.

No you havent. You may have heard the positive effects cannabis can have for patients with various conditions, though for example, Parkinsons:

https://youtu.be/zNT8Zo_sfwo

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