Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 371: 13 Years Old, Mature Enough for FOX and Gaetz

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Forceful_Dragon 04/23/21 12:18:19 PM #451:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... But that doesn't mean "let the girl get stabbed" it means things shouldn't have escalated to this point and we should work on having other options besides "call someone with a gun to violently intervene." Is that an acceptable take to you? Absolutely. So definitely take the note from this situation and include that note with the proposals to reform policing. But importantly, I think that can be accomplished without citing this as one of the situations that proves that policing needs to change. "Police needs to be reformed. Look at clear cut situations 1, 2, 3 and 3" and then list reforms that also include notes from other, less clear situations. It's the sort of thing you quietly include in your agenda because giving this particular situation loud attention gives an unnecessary footing to someone who believes policing doesn't need to be reformed at all. I'm focused with denying those people a leg to stand on. --- ~C~ FD https://imgur.com/dGDfxaw <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:953144998] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted... </cite> <quote>But that doesn't mean "let the girl get stabbed" it means things shouldn't have escalated to this point and we should work on having other options besides "call someone with a gun to violently intervene." Is that an acceptable take to you?</quote> Absolutely. So definitely take the note from this situation and include that note with the proposals to reform policing. But importantly, I think that can be accomplished without citing this as one of the situations that proves that policing needs to change. "Police needs to be reformed. Look at clear cut situations 1, 2, 3 and 3" and then list reforms that also include notes from other, less clear situations. It's the sort of thing you quietly include in your agenda because giving this particular situation loud attention gives an unnecessary footing to someone who believes policing doesn't need to be reformed at all. I'm focused with denying those people a leg to stand on. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 04/23/21 12:22:34 PM #452:	UshiromiyaEva posted... Again, we are arguing actual events versus desired events. I straight up don't get why this argument is happening because nobody is actually disagreeing about anything we're just not talking about the same damn thing. Literally already explained how it's the same damn thing You can't take the criticisms of the people objecting to this specific event out of the larger context of the bigger issue. It's interrelated. What I'm warning against is people being reductive and using this incident to dismiss those larger criticisms. --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:953145168] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>UshiromiyaEva posted... </cite> <quote>Again, we are arguing actual events versus desired events. I straight up don't get why this argument is happening because nobody is actually disagreeing about anything we're just not talking about the same damn thing.</quote> Literally already explained how it's the same damn thing You can't take the criticisms of the people objecting to this specific event out of the larger context of the bigger issue. It's interrelated. What I'm warning against is people being reductive and using this incident to dismiss those larger criticisms. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 04/23/21 12:30:32 PM #453:	Forceful_Dragon posted... It's the sort of thing you quietly include in your agenda because giving this particular situation loud attention gives an unnecessary footing to someone who believes policing doesn't need to be reformed at all. I'm focused with denying those people a leg to stand on. No, I think this is bad framing and bad strategy. Police reform is already decently popular. Honestly, people who don't support at least minor reforms at this point are a lost cause. What we need is bigger reforms, and the focus should be on converting people who support minor reforms to supporting major and more radical ones. And imo that means you have to really challenge people's preconceived notions in cases such as these. The blatant cases you're talking about are good for generating support for minor reforms, but the George Floyd Act doesn't go far enough and we need to start generating support for doing more. Edit: Also this is arguing from an electoral political perspective but it's also important for non-electoral politics. There's some amount of growing movement in organizing alternatives to police, aka specialized crisis groups you could call instead of police officers, and I think most of us would agree that's a good thing? I certainly think we should encourage it. But you don't generate support for those by pointing to the easy police brutality cases, you do it by pointing to the grey areas like this and saying maybe the police officer was unnecessary and someone else could handle it differently. --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:953145462] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Forceful_Dragon posted... </cite> <quote> It's the sort of thing you quietly include in your agenda because giving this particular situation loud attention gives an unnecessary footing to someone who believes policing doesn't need to be reformed at all. I'm focused with denying those people a leg to stand on.</quote> No, I think this is bad framing and bad strategy. Police reform is already decently popular. Honestly, people who don't support at least minor reforms at this point are a lost cause. What we need is bigger reforms, and the focus should be on converting people who support minor reforms to supporting major and more radical ones. And imo that means you have to really challenge people's preconceived notions in cases such as these. The blatant cases you're talking about are good for generating support for minor reforms, but the George Floyd Act doesn't go far enough and we need to start generating support for doing more. Edit: Also this is arguing from an electoral political perspective but it's also important for non-electoral politics. There's some amount of growing movement in organizing alternatives to police, aka specialized crisis groups you could call instead of police officers, and I think most of us would agree that's a good thing? I certainly think we should encourage it. But you don't generate support for those by pointing to the easy police brutality cases, you do it by pointing to the grey areas like this and saying maybe the police officer was unnecessary and someone else could handle it differently. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 04/23/21 12:46:44 PM #454:	This whole argument is so familiar. Yet again, a certain group of people would rather play defense because of what the lost causes will think rather than just supporting the cause. The reactionaries literally never consider what people who disagree with them will think, and it's why they manage to win despite being wildly outnumbered. Do I think the cop in this situation should be charged? No. Do I think he should be celebrated? Also no. Anyone who would be turned off from police reform because this cop doesn't get cookies was already not interested in police reform. These are the same people who see the Chauvin conviction and think "See? The system is working fine!" --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:953146016] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>This whole argument is so familiar. Yet again, a certain group of people would rather play defense because of what the lost causes will think rather than just supporting the cause. The reactionaries literally never consider what people who disagree with them will think, and it's why they manage to win despite being wildly outnumbered. Do I think the cop in this situation should be charged? No. Do I think he should be celebrated? Also no. Anyone who would be turned off from police reform because this cop doesn't get cookies was already not interested in police reform. These are the same people who see the Chauvin conviction and think "See? The system is working fine!" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Xeybozn 04/23/21 12:52:06 PM #455:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... No, I think this is bad framing and bad strategy. Police reform is already decently popular. Honestly, people who don't support at least minor reforms at this point are a lost cause. What we need is bigger reforms, and the focus should be on converting people who support minor reforms to supporting major and more radical ones. And imo that means you have to really challenge people's preconceived notions in cases such as these. The blatant cases you're talking about are good for generating support for minor reforms, but the George Floyd Act doesn't go far enough and we need to start generating support for doing more. Trying to convert people who only support smaller-scale reform is just as likely to flip them back to opposing any reform, though. Can we at least wait until we've actually achieved some reform before we start going on about how we need to go further and anyone who doesn't think so is "a lost cause"? --- Congrats to 2020 GotD Guru champ azuarc! <cite>Xeybozn posted [p:953146197] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted...</cite> <quote> No, I think this is bad framing and bad strategy. Police reform is already decently popular. Honestly, people who don't support at least minor reforms at this point are a lost cause. What we need is bigger reforms, and the focus should be on converting people who support minor reforms to supporting major and more radical ones. And imo that means you have to really challenge people's preconceived notions in cases such as these. The blatant cases you're talking about are good for generating support for minor reforms, but the George Floyd Act doesn't go far enough and we need to start generating support for doing more.</quote> Trying to convert people who only support smaller-scale reform is just as likely to flip them back to opposing any reform, though. Can we at least wait until we've actually achieved some reform before we start going on about how we need to go further and anyone who doesn't think so is "a lost cause"?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamikazePotato 04/23/21 1:04:38 PM #456:	JonThePenguin posted... https://twitter.com/anthonymkreis/status/1385602593259466752 lmaoooo --- It's Reyn Time. <cite>KamikazePotato posted [p:953146630] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>JonThePenguin posted... </cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/anthonymkreis/status/1385602593259466752</quote>lmaoooo </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 04/23/21 1:16:19 PM #457:	That entire speech was excellent --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:953146994] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>That entire speech was excellent </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 04/23/21 1:16:39 PM #458:	Xeybozn posted... Trying to convert people who only support smaller-scale reform is just as likely to flip them back to opposing any reform, though. Can we at least wait until we've actually achieved some reform before we start going on about how we need to go further and anyone who doesn't think so is "a lost cause"? I don't think you read what he said right, or I'm not reading you right. The lost causes (in my eyes, and I think that's what he's saying too) are the people who DON'T support minor reform, which are also the same people the "you're gonna turn people off by saying cops killing teenagers isn't good" group are talking about. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:953147003] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Xeybozn posted... </cite> <quote>Trying to convert people who only support smaller-scale reform is just as likely to flip them back to opposing any reform, though. Can we at least wait until we've actually achieved some reform before we start going on about how we need to go further and anyone who doesn't think so is "a lost cause"?</quote> I don't think you read what he said right, or I'm not reading you right. The lost causes (in my eyes, and I think that's what he's saying too) are the people who DON'T support minor reform, which are also the same people the "you're gonna turn people off by saying cops killing teenagers isn't good" group are talking about. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 04/23/21 1:19:59 PM #459:	Do I think the cop in this situation should be charged? No. Do I think he should be celebrated? Also no. Weve spent like 200 posts debating this but if I had to guess literally everyone in the topic agrees with this sentiment. Also I dislike the Zimmerman comparison because there is a huge difference between stalking and harassing a kid who wasnt doing anything when you were specifically told not to and arriving on scene immediately before someone was about to stab someone else. It matters to me here that the person at risk was another teenage girl and not a cop or a guy who fancies himself one. This is honestly such a weird debate for me because I agree there is widespread abuse and that the system needs to change and there is undeniable an inequitable distribution of justice and people should protest and fight for that change. I just think in this very specific and very limited case that the cop didnt really do anything wrong. I dont even necessarily want to change anyones mind about this case because I think it is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things but I just like to argue so here I am. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:953147136] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote><quote>Do I think the cop in this situation should be charged? No. Do I think he should be celebrated? Also no.</quote> Weve spent like 200 posts debating this but if I had to guess literally everyone in the topic agrees with this sentiment. Also I dislike the Zimmerman comparison because there is a huge difference between stalking and harassing a kid who wasnt doing anything when you were specifically told not to and arriving on scene immediately before someone was about to stab someone else. It matters to me here that the person at risk was another teenage girl and not a cop or a guy who fancies himself one. This is honestly such a weird debate for me because I agree there is widespread abuse and that the system needs to change and there is undeniable an inequitable distribution of justice and people should protest and fight for that change. I just think in this very specific and very limited case that the cop didnt really do anything wrong. I dont even necessarily want to change anyones mind about this case because I think it is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things but I just like to argue so here I am. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 04/23/21 1:23:24 PM #460:	UshiromiyaEva posted... You're right, they should have shot this dude before he killed those people. Yeah this is so weird to me to bring up as a counter because I dont think anyone here disagrees that the justice system is unfair. And, just my opinion, but the wrong thing here was that the cops didnt use more force on him. Like are people arguing that the cops here did the right think but not interfering with him shooting two people? --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:953147259] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>UshiromiyaEva posted... </cite> <quote>You're right, they should have shot this dude before he killed those people.</quote> Yeah this is so weird to me to bring up as a counter because I dont think anyone here disagrees that the justice system is unfair. And, just my opinion, but the wrong thing here was that the cops didnt use more force on him. Like are people arguing that the cops here did the right think but not interfering with him shooting two people? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 04/23/21 1:28:52 PM #461:	PerfectChaosZ posted... Ive seen plenty of knife-fights and they stop after one of them gets a good slash in and the other starts bleeding worse than a little knick then they flip out, go to the hospital, and lie about it because they realize its serious. Teenagers are stupid. But get a cop involved and instead one of them is dead. This is also such an insane post I cant tell if it is satire or not. Those first five words alone is wild. Yes you could theoretically kill someone with a skateboard but I mean come on. Ill take a wild guess and say more people have been killed with knives than skateboards. It is pretty clear which one of those two is more dangerous in a persons hand. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:953147479] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>PerfectChaosZ posted... </cite> <quote>Ive seen plenty of knife-fights and they stop after one of them gets a good slash in and the other starts bleeding worse than a little knick then they flip out, go to the hospital, and lie about it because they realize its serious. Teenagers are stupid. But get a cop involved and instead one of them is dead.</quote> This is also such an insane post I cant tell if it is satire or not. Those first five words alone is wild. Yes you could theoretically kill someone with a skateboard but I mean come on. Ill take a wild guess and say more people have been killed with knives than skateboards. It is pretty clear which one of those two is more dangerous in a persons hand. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 04/23/21 1:31:49 PM #462:	Xeybozn posted... Trying to convert people who only support smaller-scale reform is just as likely to flip them back to opposing any reform, though. Can we at least wait until we've actually achieved some reform before we start going on about how we need to go further and anyone who doesn't think so is "a lost cause"? Uh? I've never seen any data on this (and would love to if it exists) but it sounds fake. I know people tend to dig in on their current beliefs when challenged or oppose a more extreme idea they view as worse but outright flipping their belief system? If my arguments in this topic have somehow convinced people police don't need ANY reform then I apologize (but also fuck you). Also I think we have achieved plenty of minor reforms (some of which don't fucking work) and are on the cusp of many others. Like the George Floyd Act is decently good on the issue of qualified immunity, it's just pretty limited (also has to pass the Senate, I know. Separate issue). This is very important because we are kind of at the point where doing more reforms inherently requires more radical and unpopular things. Local change has to fight against politicians and police unions (unpopular) and federal government is limited in what they can do and I can't imagine expanding their authority over local police matters would be popular or even possible. I don't really see any getting around this. So instead of waiting for a compromise I don't think exists, support should be generated now, while minor reforms efforts are ongoing. edit: and yeah I was saying people who are still saying no reforms needed at all are lost causes. Others are welcome to try if they think that's worthwhile, just couldn't be me. Takes all types though. --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:953147595] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Xeybozn posted... </cite> <quote>Trying to convert people who only support smaller-scale reform is just as likely to flip them back to opposing any reform, though. Can we at least wait until we've actually achieved some reform before we start going on about how we need to go further and anyone who doesn't think so is "a lost cause"?</quote> Uh? I've never seen any data on this (and would love to if it exists) but it sounds fake. I know people tend to dig in on their current beliefs when challenged or oppose a more extreme idea they view as worse but outright flipping their belief system? If my arguments in this topic have somehow convinced people police don't need ANY reform then I apologize (but also fuck you). Also I think we have achieved plenty of minor reforms (some of which don't fucking work) and are on the cusp of many others. Like the George Floyd Act is decently good on the issue of qualified immunity, it's just pretty limited (also has to pass the Senate, I know. Separate issue). This is very important because we are kind of at the point where doing more reforms inherently requires more radical and unpopular things. Local change has to fight against politicians and police unions (unpopular) and federal government is limited in what they can do and I can't imagine expanding their authority over local police matters would be popular or even possible. I don't really see any getting around this. So instead of waiting for a compromise I don't think exists, support should be generated now, while minor reforms efforts are ongoing. edit: and yeah I was saying people who are still saying no reforms needed at all are lost causes. Others are welcome to try if they think that's worthwhile, just couldn't be me. Takes all types though. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 04/23/21 1:34:19 PM #463:	Suprak the Stud posted... Yeah this is so weird to me to bring up as a counter because I dont think anyone here disagrees that the justice system is unfair. And, just my opinion, but the wrong thing here was that the cops didnt use more force on him. Like are people arguing that the cops here did the right think but not interfering with him shooting two people? I think there's a lot of potential for cops to have made the situation worse. Rittenhouse should NOT have been there, and he SHOULD be punished, but he was not the first or only person to shoot a gun. At least two other people shot weapons, only one of which was identified (they said it was a warning shot for Rittenhouse to back off). I don't know the laws on open carry by age, but I will admit the situation could have been stopped if he wasn't allowed to carry and they'd enforced that. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:953147706] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Suprak the Stud posted... </cite> <quote> Yeah this is so weird to me to bring up as a counter because I dont think anyone here disagrees that the justice system is unfair. And, just my opinion, but the wrong thing here was that the cops didnt use more force on him. Like are people arguing that the cops here did the right think but not interfering with him shooting two people?</quote> I think there's a lot of potential for cops to have made the situation worse. Rittenhouse should NOT have been there, and he SHOULD be punished, but he was not the first or only person to shoot a gun. At least two other people shot weapons, only one of which was identified (they said it was a warning shot for Rittenhouse to back off). I don't know the laws on open carry by age, but I will admit the situation could have been stopped if he wasn't allowed to carry and they'd enforced that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 04/23/21 1:39:12 PM #464:	<_< I went ahead and made the new topic already because I couldn't get the extremely stupid and easy pun out of my ahead. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:953147900] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote><_< I went ahead and made the new topic already because I couldn't get the extremely stupid and easy pun out of my ahead. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Seanchan 04/23/21 5:57:13 PM #465:	JonThePenguin posted... https://twitter.com/anthonymkreis/status/1385602593259466752 I love it! --- "That was unnecessarily dramatic". - NY Mets motto (courtesy of InnerTubeHero) Congratulations to azuarc, the guru of gurus and winner of GotD 2020! <cite>Seanchan posted [p:953156317] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>JonThePenguin posted... </cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/anthonymkreis/status/1385602593259466752</quote> I love it! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
guffguy89 04/23/21 6:14:16 PM #466:	Concerning the video, anyone else see the boyfriend just kick that first girl on the ground right in front of the police officer? Their overall lack of acknowledgement of police being there is really confusing to me. But that's more of an aside. On the whole, I'm not sure how you can see that video and not think there was plausible justification for the cop to use deadly force to stop the girl with the knife who was actively lunging it at somebody. I'm not sure what else he could've done that wouldn't have put the woman in pink at great risk of being stabbed. Another way to think of it is this. If the cop wasn't there, but the woman in pink had a gun in her pocket, and everything else transpired exactly as the video showed, except during the struggle, the woman in pink manages to pull out her gun and shoot, out of fear for her life. Would that not be self defense? --- Don't mind me. I'm just here for the contest. <cite>guffguy89 posted [p:953156894] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Concerning the video, anyone else see the boyfriend just kick that first girl on the ground right in front of the police officer? Their overall lack of acknowledgement of police being there is really confusing to me. But that's more of an aside. On the whole, I'm not sure how you can see that video and not think there was plausible justification for the cop to use deadly force to stop the girl with the knife who was actively lunging it at somebody. I'm not sure what else he could've done that wouldn't have put the woman in pink at great risk of being stabbed. Another way to think of it is this. If the cop wasn't there, but the woman in pink had a gun in her pocket, and everything else transpired exactly as the video showed, except during the struggle, the woman in pink manages to pull out her gun and shoot, out of fear for her life. Would that not be self defense? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/23/21 6:19:08 PM #467:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... And lmao this is just stupid. You get this take from the 90s? At least you updated it to reflect current music trends. the idea that kids getting into knife fights probably don't have the best parents is a "stupid '90s take"? what the fuck? --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:953157041] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted... </cite> <quote>And lmao this is just stupid. You get this take from the 90s? At least you updated it to reflect current music trends.</quote> the idea that kids getting into knife fights probably don't have the best parents is a "stupid '90s take"? what the fuck? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 04/23/21 7:33:46 PM #469:	Mr Lasastryke posted... the idea that kids getting into knife fights probably don't have the best parents is a "stupid '90s take"? what the fuck? You literally blamed bad parents and rap music. Come on. --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:953159197] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Mr Lasastryke posted... </cite> <quote>the idea that kids getting into knife fights probably don't have the best parents is a "stupid '90s take"? what the fuck?</quote> You literally blamed bad parents and rap music. Come on. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN 04/23/21 7:35:40 PM #470:	oh that wasn't a joke? lmao --- Kneel... or you will be knelt <cite>NFUN posted [p:953159247] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>oh that wasn't a joke? lmao </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/23/21 7:38:41 PM #471:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... You literally blamed bad parents and rap music. Come on. obviously, that wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list of reasons why kids might get into knife fights. taken that into account, i'd really like to know why the fuck "bad parents and drill music probably contribute to this" is an idiotic take i deserve to get bashed into the ground for. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:953159342] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted... </cite> <quote>You literally blamed bad parents and rap music. Come on.</quote> obviously, that wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list of reasons why kids might get into knife fights. taken that into account, i'd really like to know why the fuck "bad parents and drill music probably contribute to this" is an idiotic take i deserve to get bashed into the ground for. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/23/21 7:39:44 PM #472:	NFUN posted... oh that wasn't a joke? lmao dude what the fuck --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:953159368] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>NFUN posted... </cite> <quote>oh that wasn't a joke? lmao</quote> dude what the fuck </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN 04/23/21 7:42:47 PM #473:	it's literally, as HDT pointed out, the same exact shit they said it the 90s that people laugh it with an updated term. no different than pointing the finger at cod --- Kneel... or you will be knelt <cite>NFUN posted [p:953159449] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>it's literally, as HDT pointed out, the same exact shit they said it the 90s that people laugh it with an updated term. no different than pointing the finger at cod </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 04/23/21 7:44:00 PM #474:	Bad parenting is reasonable as a potential contributor, sure. Music though... that just sounds like "violent video games are causing school shootings" type rhetoric and is the part that's getting people on your case, I think. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:953159473] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Bad parenting is reasonable as a potential contributor, sure. Music though... that just sounds like "violent video games are causing school shootings" type rhetoric and is the part that's getting people on your case, I think. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UshiromiyaEva 04/23/21 7:47:52 PM #475:	Bold of Lasa to take the Bill Cosby stance --- https://twitter.com/OocWTC/status/1348011667976699904?s=19 <cite>UshiromiyaEva posted [p:953159597] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Bold of Lasa to take the Bill Cosby stance </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 04/23/21 8:15:25 PM #476:	Now everyones racist uncle can forward people this gamefaqs post instead of a 1992 Bill Cosby interview. RE::RE::FWD::RE::THIS GAMEFAQS POST WILL MAKE YOU THINK LOVE GRANDMA --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:953160391] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Now everyones racist uncle can forward people this gamefaqs post instead of a 1992 Bill Cosby interview. RE::RE::FWD::RE::THIS GAMEFAQS POST WILL MAKE YOU THINK LOVE GRANDMA </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 04/23/21 8:24:23 PM #477:	ChaosTonyV4 posted... I think there's a lot of potential for cops to have made the situation worse. Rittenhouse should NOT have been there, and he SHOULD be punished, but he was not the first or only person to shoot a gun. At least two other people shot weapons, only one of which was identified (they said it was a warning shot for Rittenhouse to back off). I don't know the laws on open carry by age, but I will admit the situation could have been stopped if he wasn't allowed to carry and they'd enforced that. I mean for sure it couldve gotten messier and I know there were complicating circumstances. But again between these two cases it stands out to me how much the cops underacted to Rittenhouse rather than necessarily overacting in this scenario. I dont want any one to be shot by a cop but the one very limited scenario where I am most likely to understand is when someone has what a reasonable person would perceive as a deadly weapon in the hands of most people and is pointing or about to use that on another civilian. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:953160666] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>ChaosTonyV4 posted... </cite> <quote>I think there's a lot of potential for cops to have made the situation worse. Rittenhouse should NOT have been there, and he SHOULD be punished, but he was not the first or only person to shoot a gun. At least two other people shot weapons, only one of which was identified (they said it was a warning shot for Rittenhouse to back off). I don't know the laws on open carry by age, but I will admit the situation could have been stopped if he wasn't allowed to carry and they'd enforced that.</quote> I mean for sure it couldve gotten messier and I know there were complicating circumstances. But again between these two cases it stands out to me how much the cops underacted to Rittenhouse rather than necessarily overacting in this scenario. I dont want any one to be shot by a cop but the one very limited scenario where I am most likely to understand is when someone has what a reasonable person would perceive as a deadly weapon in the hands of most people and is pointing or about to use that on another civilian. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/23/21 8:48:36 PM #478:	xp1337 posted... Bad parenting is reasonable as a potential contributor, sure. Music though... that just sounds like "violent video games are causing school shootings" type rhetoric and is the part that's getting people on your case, I think. first of all, herodeltiempo basically said that me blaming knife fights on "bad parents and rap music" is stupid. so evidently, he's not just getting on my case for the music part. second of all, apparently the people bashing me didn't bother to actually read my post. because i never said "drill music is causing tons of kids to get into knife fights" like some kind of fucking jack thompson or bill cosby. i do, however, believe it's a contributing factor to knife fights. and i'm not saying this lightly. don't know how it is in the US, but there's been plenty of dutch news articles and documentaries from legitimate sources about the negative impact of drill rap on young kids. sure, it could still all be bullshit, but for now i'm willing to believe that there's at least some truth to it being a negative influence and that this is not exactly the same as gangsta rap in the '90s. that being said, bad parenting and some of these kids being mentally unstable are way bigger issues than drill music, obviously. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:953161412] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>xp1337 posted... </cite> <quote>Bad parenting is reasonable as a potential contributor, sure. Music though... that just sounds like "violent video games are causing school shootings" type rhetoric and is the part that's getting people on your case, I think.</quote> first of all, herodeltiempo basically said that me blaming knife fights on "bad parents and rap music" is stupid. so evidently, he's not just getting on my case for the music part. second of all, apparently the people bashing me didn't bother to actually read my post. because i never said "drill music is causing tons of kids to get into knife fights" like some kind of fucking jack thompson or bill cosby. i do, however, believe it's a contributing factor to knife fights. and i'm not saying this lightly. don't know how it is in the US, but there's been plenty of dutch news articles and documentaries from legitimate sources about the negative impact of drill rap on young kids. sure, it could still all be bullshit, but for now i'm willing to believe that there's at least some truth to it being a negative influence and that this is not exactly the same as gangsta rap in the '90s. that being said, bad parenting and some of these kids being mentally unstable are way bigger issues than drill music, obviously. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 04/23/21 8:59:32 PM #479:	"bad parenting" has always been a reductive proxy to complain about families with lower socioeconomic status and resources, and people who had "good parenting" still commit violent crimes, so yeah. Second yeah I know about the drill music controversy and I'm more inclined to believe it's very similar to the rap phenomenon of the 90s. Art reflects culture and shifts in culture that could responsible for the popularity of both rising or even something as simple as "popular drill artists get involved in more crime" is very different than blaming the music very generally for kids doing crime You mention mental health so I'm sure your thoughts are super nuanced but when your actual post was a dumbass one-liner that's nearly identical to the same stupid racist take we had 30 years ago I think I'm justified to call that out! --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:953161735] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>"bad parenting" has always been a reductive proxy to complain about families with lower socioeconomic status and resources, and people who had "good parenting" still commit violent crimes, so yeah. Second yeah I know about the drill music controversy and I'm more inclined to believe it's very similar to the rap phenomenon of the 90s. Art reflects culture and shifts in culture that could responsible for the popularity of both rising or even something as simple as "popular drill artists get involved in more crime" is very different than blaming the music very generally for kids doing crime You mention mental health so I'm sure your thoughts are super nuanced but when your actual post was a dumbass one-liner that's nearly identical to the same stupid racist take we had 30 years ago I think I'm justified to call that out! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/23/21 9:24:22 PM #480:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... You mention mental health so I'm sure your thoughts are super nuanced but when your actual post was a dumbass one-liner that's nearly identical to the same stupid racist take we had 30 years ago I think I'm justified to call that out! yeah, i guess i should have worded my post more carefully. but come on, i've spent literal years on this board passionately defending rap, to the point that my board 8 wiki entry talks about it and i have an alt called "harshrapdebater." i REALLY didn't expect people to accuse me of being some kind of jack thompson-ish "GRRR THOSE YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPERS AND THEIR RAP MUSIC" kind of guy >_> --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:953162442] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted... </cite> <quote>You mention mental health so I'm sure your thoughts are super nuanced but when your actual post was a dumbass one-liner that's nearly identical to the same stupid racist take we had 30 years ago I think I'm justified to call that out!</quote> yeah, i guess i should have worded my post more carefully. but come on, i've spent literal years on this board passionately defending rap, to the point that my board 8 wiki entry talks about it and i have an alt called "harshrapdebater." i REALLY didn't expect people to accuse me of being some kind of jack thompson-ish "GRRR THOSE YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPERS AND THEIR RAP MUSIC" kind of guy >_> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 04/24/21 10:01:47 AM #481:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... "bad parenting" has always been a reductive proxy to complain about families with lower socioeconomic status and resources, and people who had "good parenting" still commit violent crimes, so yeah. That's true, but I hoped it was understood that it wasn't being used in that fashion here - i.e. it was a possible contributing factor and not some "Oh, well guess it had to be that. Where were the parents!?!? (working three jobs to provide food and shelter to their child because starvation wages)" --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:953175265] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted... </cite> <quote>"bad parenting" has always been a reductive proxy to complain about families with lower socioeconomic status and resources, and people who had "good parenting" still commit violent crimes, so yeah.</quote>That's true, but I hoped it was understood that it wasn't being used in that fashion here - i.e. it was a possible contributing factor and not some "Oh, well guess it had to be that. Where were the parents!?!? (working three jobs to provide food and shelter to their child because starvation wages)" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Inviso 04/25/21 11:38:32 AM #482:	I realize we still have 19 posts left in this topic. Biden acknowledging the Armenian genocide is a good thing, right? --- Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier. Inviso <cite>Inviso posted [p:953210613] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>I realize we still have 19 posts left in this topic. Biden acknowledging the Armenian genocide is a good thing, right? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN 04/25/21 11:40:13 AM #483:	Revolution, the only solution, the armed response of an entire nation. Revolution, the only solution, we've taken all the shit now it's time for restitution --- Kneel... or you will be knelt <cite>NFUN posted [p:953210647] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Revolution, the only solution, the armed response of an entire nation. Revolution, the only solution, we've taken all the shit now it's time for restitution </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leafeon13N 04/25/21 1:04:50 PM #484:	Inviso posted... I realize we still have 19 posts left in this topic. Biden acknowledging the Armenian genocide is a good thing, right? All the angry turkey people on twitter that think turkey could actually take military retribution over this make it a clear yes. Also recognizing genocide as genocide is probably a good thing. <cite>Leafeon13N posted [p:953213076] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Inviso posted... </cite> <quote>I realize we still have 19 posts left in this topic. Biden acknowledging the Armenian genocide is a good thing, right?</quote>All the angry turkey people on twitter that think turkey could actually take military retribution over this make it a clear yes. Also recognizing genocide as genocide is probably a good thing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CaptainOfCrush 04/25/21 1:28:01 PM #485:	As someone with Armenian ancestry, this is a huge deal for the Armenian-American community, many of whom now have to reconcile thanking Biden for doing this with their baffling Trump support (I'm not quite sure why Trump gained sizable support in the Armenian community in the first place). And yeah, if nothing else, we need to call genocide for what it is despite making one diplomatic relationship temporarily icy. --- Yoblazer https://imgur.com/gByqgPg <cite>CaptainOfCrush posted [p:953213748] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>As someone with Armenian ancestry, this is a huge deal for the Armenian-American community, many of whom now have to reconcile thanking Biden for doing this with their baffling Trump support (I'm not quite sure why Trump gained sizable support in the Armenian community in the first place). And yeah, if nothing else, we need to call genocide for what it is despite making one diplomatic relationship temporarily icy. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 04/25/21 2:29:26 PM #486:	CaptainOfCrush posted... And yeah, if nothing else, we need to call genocide for what it is despite making one diplomatic relationship temporarily icy. Agreed 100% --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:953215453] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>CaptainOfCrush posted... </cite> <quote>And yeah, if nothing else, we need to call genocide for what it is despite making one diplomatic relationship temporarily icy.</quote>Agreed 100% </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GuessMyUserName 04/25/21 2:39:45 PM #487:	I woke up to Conan's Sona Movsesian celebrating which was nice They covered it on the show's travel special a number of years back where they visited the Armenian Genocide Memorial Leafeon13N posted... Also recognizing genocide as genocide is probably a good thing. --- I request affiliated many pipes. Been a bad girl, I know I am. And I'm so hot, I need a fan. I don't want a boy, I need a man. <cite>GuessMyUserName posted [p:953215738] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>I woke up to Conan's Sona Movsesian celebrating which was nice They covered it on the show's travel special a number of years back where they visited the Armenian Genocide Memorial Leafeon13N posted... </cite> <quote>Also recognizing genocide as genocide is probably a good thing.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 04/25/21 3:16:34 PM #488:	Im glad that we've finally officially recognized the Armenian genocide. Now we need to take a stance against what is currently happening to the Uyghur people. Forced and targeted sterilization IS genocide. --- ~C~ FD https://imgur.com/dGDfxaw <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:953216873] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Im glad that we've finally officially recognized the Armenian genocide. Now we need to take a stance against what is currently happening to the Uyghur people. Forced and targeted sterilization IS genocide. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 04/25/21 3:58:26 PM #489:	Between that, how the US is treating migrants, and whatever the hell India is doing in Kashmir, we are at the point where world powers can just quietly do a little genocide as a treat and it fucking sucks --- I definitely did not forget to put the 2020 GOTD Guru winner, azuarc in my sig! <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:953218069] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Between that, how the US is treating migrants, and whatever the hell India is doing in Kashmir, we are at the point where world powers can just quietly do a little genocide as a treat and it fucking sucks </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 04/25/21 4:05:21 PM #490:	China at least is doing quite a bit more than a little genocide. Whats happening at the southern border is deplorable but I would not ever put that and what is happening in China in the same sentence. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:953218249] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>China at least is doing quite a bit more than a little genocide. Whats happening at the southern border is deplorable but I would not ever put that and what is happening in China in the same sentence. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
fuming 04/25/21 4:13:35 PM #491:	The US doesn't really have any place condemning genocide given our country is founded upon it, we continue it to this day, we support it on the part of our allies in israel and saudi arabia, etc. But I guess it's still good to recognize it. <cite>fuming posted [p:953218472] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>The US doesn't really have any place condemning genocide given our country is founded upon it, we continue it to this day, we support it on the part of our allies in israel and saudi arabia, etc. But I guess it's still good to recognize it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 04/25/21 4:18:37 PM #492:	ICE doctors literally did unwanted hysterectomies on immigrants in detention, so uh, yeah --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:953218623] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>ICE doctors literally did unwanted hysterectomies on immigrants in detention, so uh, yeah </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 04/25/21 4:24:12 PM #493:	https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news-china/chinese-statistics-reveal-plummeting-births-xinjiang-during Whats happening at the southern border is deplorable but I would not ever put that and what is happening in China in the same sentence. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:953218775] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news-china/chinese-statistics-reveal-plummeting-births-xinjiang-during Whats happening at the southern border is deplorable but I would not ever put that and what is happening in China in the same sentence. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leafeon13N 04/25/21 4:24:48 PM #494:	fuming posted... The US doesn't really have any place condemning genocide given our country is founded upon it, we continue it to this day, we support it on the part of our allies in israel and saudi arabia, etc. But I guess it's still good to recognize it. Typically we're pretty indiscriminate in our slaughter. We still get bad things(ICE really needs to be abolished), but in a more general sense we're not wiping people out based on race or ethnicity. <cite>Leafeon13N posted [p:953218796] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>fuming posted... </cite> <quote>The US doesn't really have any place condemning genocide given our country is founded upon it, we continue it to this day, we support it on the part of our allies in israel and saudi arabia, etc. But I guess it's still good to recognize it.</quote>Typically we're pretty indiscriminate in our slaughter. We still get bad things(ICE really needs to be abolished), but in a more general sense we're not wiping people out based on race or ethnicity. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
fuming 04/25/21 5:00:28 PM #495:	We have and still take part in wiping out the natives of the land we stole. Destroying someone's culture is still genocide, even if we aren't currently firsthand murdering them (although one could argue the fact we forced them into impoverished reservations is essentially doing that). We are actively taking part in he genocide in Yemen, which seems pretty obviously targeted to me. We are completely supportive of the genocide Israel is perpetrating over the palestinians. Our government has long since targeted black neighborhoods by filling them with drugs to then have an excuse to keep everyone impoverished, and create new prisoners for our slave labor. And the crimes of ICE are even worse when you take into account the reason people become refugees is largely because of the meddling we have done in central and south america in the first place. My point isn't about arguing who is doing the worst crimes - just that it isn't really worth anything for a country to recognize the crimes of others when you have no basis to be an arbiter of justice. And until we become that, I just assume anytime our government makes a moral stand it is because they find it politically useful and not because of conviction. IE: they claimed iraq was about saving people from sadaam and bringing democracy, but sadaam was a long time ally of the US, we don't care about other brutal dictators who are our allies, we don't care about allies who aren't democracies, etc. So it's I guess good that Biden is acknowledging it, but I don't think it's because he cares about stopping genocide as a principle or anything. <cite>fuming posted [p:953219834] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>We have and still take part in wiping out the natives of the land we stole. Destroying someone's culture is still genocide, even if we aren't currently firsthand murdering them (although one could argue the fact we forced them into impoverished reservations is essentially doing that). We are actively taking part in he genocide in Yemen, which seems pretty obviously targeted to me. We are completely supportive of the genocide Israel is perpetrating over the palestinians. Our government has long since targeted black neighborhoods by filling them with drugs to then have an excuse to keep everyone impoverished, and create new prisoners for our slave labor. And the crimes of ICE are even worse when you take into account the reason people become refugees is largely because of the meddling we have done in central and south america in the first place. My point isn't about arguing who is doing the worst crimes - just that it isn't really worth anything for a country to recognize the crimes of others when you have no basis to be an arbiter of justice. And until we become that, I just assume anytime our government makes a moral stand it is because they find it politically useful and not because of conviction. IE: they claimed iraq was about saving people from sadaam and bringing democracy, but sadaam was a long time ally of the US, we don't care about other brutal dictators who are our allies, we don't care about allies who aren't democracies, etc. So it's I guess good that Biden is acknowledging it, but I don't think it's because he cares about stopping genocide as a principle or anything. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheRock1525 04/25/21 5:19:10 PM #496:	I mean, wouldn't principle be the only reason to condemn it? The fact that both Republicans and Democrats alike refused to condemn it suggests political expediency in not doing so, and Biden is angering an ally by doing it. --- TheRock ~ I had a name, my father called me Blues. <cite>TheRock1525 posted [p:953220492] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>I mean, wouldn't principle be the only reason to condemn it? The fact that both Republicans and Democrats alike refused to condemn it suggests political expediency in not doing so, and Biden is angering an ally by doing it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamikazePotato 04/25/21 5:19:56 PM #497:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... we are at the point where world powers can just quietly do a little genocide as a treat and it fucking sucks Always been like that. Nations quickly realized that no one ever does anything to stop it outside of going 'hey, quit it'. --- It's Reyn Time. <cite>KamikazePotato posted [p:953220519] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted... </cite> <quote>we are at the point where world powers can just quietly do a little genocide as a treat and it fucking sucks</quote>Always been like that. Nations quickly realized that no one ever does anything to stop it outside of going 'hey, quit it'. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 04/25/21 7:31:20 PM #498:	ChaosTonyV4 posted... ICE doctors literally did unwanted hysterectomies on immigrants in detention, so uh, yeah We're still waiting for more information on this right? As far as I'm aware it was a single surgeon acting on his own authority to recommend unneeded surgeries including a high level of hysterectomies' to ICE detainees and the number of incidents is in the dozens. It is appalling and the book needs to be thrown at everyone involved, but unless it was part of a widespread mandate or unless there was some kind of policy involved I don't think it's on the same level as what is occurring in China. --- ~C~ FD https://imgur.com/dGDfxaw <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:953224249] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>ChaosTonyV4 posted... </cite> <quote>ICE doctors literally did unwanted hysterectomies on immigrants in detention, so uh, yeah</quote> We're still waiting for more information on this right? As far as I'm aware it was a single surgeon acting on his own authority to recommend unneeded surgeries including a high level of hysterectomies' to ICE detainees and the number of incidents is in the dozens. It is appalling and the book needs to be thrown at everyone involved, but unless it was part of a widespread mandate or unless there was some kind of policy involved I don't think it's on the same level as what is occurring in China. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 04/25/21 8:00:32 PM #499:	Forceful_Dragon posted... We're still waiting for more information on this right? As far as I'm aware it was a single surgeon acting on his own authority to recommend unneeded surgeries including a high level of hysterectomies' to ICE detainees and the number of incidents is in the dozens. It is appalling and the book needs to be thrown at everyone involved, but unless it was part of a widespread mandate or unless there was some kind of policy involved I don't think it's on the same level as what is occurring in China. And even if it were, it would have been under a regime that the current ruling party fucking hates and criticizes all the time <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:953225136] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote>Forceful_Dragon posted... </cite> <quote>We're still waiting for more information on this right? As far as I'm aware it was a single surgeon acting on his own authority to recommend unneeded surgeries including a high level of hysterectomies' to ICE detainees and the number of incidents is in the dozens. It is appalling and the book needs to be thrown at everyone involved, but unless it was part of a widespread mandate or unless there was some kind of policy involved I don't think it's on the same level as what is occurring in China.</quote>And even if it were, it would have been under a regime that the current ruling party fucking hates and criticizes all the time </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheRock1525 04/25/21 9:36:03 PM #500:	What a fucking picture. --- TheRock ~ I had a name, my father called me Blues. <cite>TheRock1525 posted [p:953228013] in Politics C... [t:79408438]...</cite> <quote> What a fucking picture. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 371: 13 Years Old, Mature Enough for FOX and Gaetz (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 371: 13 Years Old, Mature Enough for FOX and Gaetz