Poll of the Day > The justice system failed Mohammad Anwar

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streamofthesky 04/06/21 12:30:22 PM #1:	https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9437615/Two-teenage-girls-accused-car-jacking-killing-Uber-Eats-driver-reach-plea-deal.html (sorry, can't find a "reputable" news site reporting this yet, if it turns out to be false I'll close the topic) Two girls, ages 13 and 15, who were charged with the murder and carjacking of a Pakistani immigrant killed last month while working at his job delivering food in Washington, DC, have reportedly reached a plea deal with prosecutors. Mohammad Anwar, 66, died when police said the girls, armed with a taser, sped off in his car as he clung to the driver's side with the door open and crashed seconds later just outside the ballpark of the Washington Nationals. On Monday, the teens reportedly reached the plea deal with prosecutors that would ensure they will not be held past the age of 21 nor be placed in a prison facility. A video of the incident shows the encounter unfolding in a minute and a half, ending with Anwar's Honda Accord on its side, the girls climbing out and a fatally injured Anwar sprawled and motionless on the sidewalk. The 90-second clip begins with Anwar struggling to regain control of his car after the two girls made their way inside. 'They're thieves,' he is heard saying as he attempts to pull the girl out of the driver seat of the parked car. 'This is my car!' The teen suddenly accelerates, sending the car speeding down the 1200 block of Van Street SE with Anwar still clinging on to the driver side's door. At one point, the car is seen smashing into a metal fence from its left side, crushing the delivery driver between the barrier and car door. As the car continues to speed off into the distance, a screeching sound is heard followed by a loud crash. The bystander filming the incident runs over to the site of the crash to find the car rolled over and the two girls climbing out of the wreckage. Anwar's body can be seen lying motionless on the corner on the sidewalk, as witnesses scramble to get help. Two National Guardsmen who were in the area removed the juvenile suspects from the overturned car and detained them until police responded to the scene and arrested them. Anwar was eventually rushed to a hospital but could not be saved. He was ejected onto the sidewalk and sustained fatal injuries, including head trauma and broken bones. This is fucking disgusting. No jail time! Why the fuck was a "plea deal" even necessary when they were on video committing the crime and there were witnesses? No way in hell if they were teen boys would the prosecutors have decided to stop doing their jobs. Also, people were more concerned w/ helping the two carjacking murderers get their phones from the car than helping the victim dying on the sidewalk. This whole story is sickening. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:952528358] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9437615/Two-teenage-girls-accused-car-jacking-killing-Uber-Eats-driver-reach-plea-deal.html (sorry, can't find a "reputable" news site reporting this yet, if it turns out to be false I'll close the topic) <quote>Two girls, ages 13 and 15, who were charged with the murder and carjacking of a Pakistani immigrant killed last month while working at his job delivering food in Washington, DC, have reportedly reached a plea deal with prosecutors. Mohammad Anwar, 66, died when police said the girls, armed with a taser, sped off in his car as he clung to the driver's side with the door open and crashed seconds later just outside the ballpark of the Washington Nationals. On Monday, the teens reportedly reached the plea deal with prosecutors that would ensure they will not be held past the age of 21 nor be placed in a prison facility. </quote> <quote>A video of the incident shows the encounter unfolding in a minute and a half, ending with Anwar's Honda Accord on its side, the girls climbing out and a fatally injured Anwar sprawled and motionless on the sidewalk. The 90-second clip begins with Anwar struggling to regain control of his car after the two girls made their way inside. 'They're thieves,' he is heard saying as he attempts to pull the girl out of the driver seat of the parked car. 'This is my car!' The teen suddenly accelerates, sending the car speeding down the 1200 block of Van Street SE with Anwar still clinging on to the driver side's door. At one point, the car is seen smashing into a metal fence from its left side, crushing the delivery driver between the barrier and car door. As the car continues to speed off into the distance, a screeching sound is heard followed by a loud crash. The bystander filming the incident runs over to the site of the crash to find the car rolled over and the two girls climbing out of the wreckage. Anwar's body can be seen lying motionless on the corner on the sidewalk, as witnesses scramble to get help. Two National Guardsmen who were in the area removed the juvenile suspects from the overturned car and detained them until police responded to the scene and arrested them. Anwar was eventually rushed to a hospital but could not be saved. He was ejected onto the sidewalk and sustained fatal injuries, including head trauma and broken bones.</quote> This is fucking disgusting. No jail time! Why the fuck was a "plea deal" even necessary when they were on video committing the crime and there were witnesses? No way in hell if they were teen boys would the prosecutors have decided to stop doing their jobs. Also, people were more concerned w/ helping the two carjacking murderers get their phones from the car than helping the victim dying on the sidewalk. This whole story is sickening. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The_tall_midget 04/06/21 12:34:06 PM #2:	I actually predicted it. They got the XX pass which confirms their incapacity of having any accountability. --- It's almost like these "protests" are just an excuse for degenerates to act how they please and still think themselves to be morally superior. <cite>The_tall_midget posted [p:952528477] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>I actually predicted it. They got the XX pass which confirms their incapacity of having any accountability. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SilentSeph 04/06/21 12:52:01 PM #3:	I saw the video when this story came out and it made me sick to my stomach. Everything about this was absolutely disgusting, nobody in the video even went to check on the victim. I feel so bad for him and his loved ones --- Delicious and vicious, while maliciously nutritious. <cite>SilentSeph posted [p:952529098] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>I saw the video when this story came out and it made me sick to my stomach. Everything about this was absolutely disgusting, nobody in the video even went to check on the victim. I feel so bad for him and his loved ones </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ParanoidObsessive 04/06/21 12:53:22 PM #4:	streamofthesky posted... Why the fuck was a "plea deal" even necessary when they were on video committing the crime and there were witnesses? Because they were 13 and 15. You can disagree with it, but there's honestly nothing about this story that's all that shocking at all. Juvenile justice tends to err to either extreme - kids get tried as adults and people get pissy about it because they feel like kids should be rehabilitated rather than punitively punished, or they get minor sentencing due to their age and people get pissy because they feel like they didn't pay for what they did. You really start to get into a grey area over 16 or so, but when you're dealing with people under 16 there's always going to be different standards. streamofthesky posted... No way in hell if they were teen boys would the prosecutors have decided to stop doing their jobs. It's not a gender thing. It's also not a race thing. It's an age thing. That's it. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:952529135] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote><cite>streamofthesky posted...</cite> <quote>Why the fuck was a "plea deal" even necessary when they were on video committing the crime and there were witnesses?</quote> Because they were 13 and 15. You can disagree with it, but there's honestly nothing about this story that's all that shocking at all. Juvenile justice tends to err to either extreme - kids get tried as adults and people get pissy about it because they feel like kids should be rehabilitated rather than punitively punished, or they get minor sentencing due to their age and people get pissy because they feel like they didn't pay for what they did. You really start to get into a grey area over 16 or so, but when you're dealing with people under 16 there's always going to be different standards. <cite>streamofthesky posted...</cite> <quote>No way in hell if they were teen boys would the prosecutors have decided to stop doing their jobs.</quote> It's not a gender thing. It's also not a race thing. It's an age thing. That's it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 04/06/21 12:56:19 PM #5:	ParanoidObsessive posted... Because they were 13 and 15. You can disagree with it, but there's honestly nothing about this story that's all that shocking at all. Juvenile justice tends to err to either extreme - kids get tried as adults and people get pissy about it because they feel like kids should be rehabilitated rather than punitively punished, or they get minor sentencing due to their age and people get pissy because they feel like they didn't pay for what they did. You really start to get into a grey area over 16 or so, but when you're dealing with people under 16 there's always going to be different standards. The prosecutors wouldn't even try them as adults. Plenty of 15 year olds have been tried as adult and gotten prison time, and for crimes less heinous than this. No one expected them to get life in jail or anything, but this is outrageous. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:952529223] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>Because they were 13 and 15. You can disagree with it, but there's honestly nothing about this story that's all that shocking at all. Juvenile justice tends to err to either extreme - kids get tried as adults and people get pissy about it because they feel like kids should be rehabilitated rather than punitively punished, or they get minor sentencing due to their age and people get pissy because they feel like they didn't pay for what they did. You really start to get into a grey area over 16 or so, but when you're dealing with people under 16 there's always going to be different standards.</quote>The prosecutors wouldn't even try them as adults. Plenty of 15 year olds have been tried as adult and gotten prison time, and for crimes less heinous than this. No one expected them to get life in jail or anything, but this is outrageous. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ParanoidObsessive 04/06/21 1:11:00 PM #6:	streamofthesky posted... The prosecutors wouldn't even try them as adults. Because they're, you know, not adults. streamofthesky posted... Plenty of 15 year olds have been tried as adult and gotten prison time, and for crimes less heinous than this. And most of the time, people whine about that, too. Even putting aside the fact that you know literally nothing about this case other than what you've seen online, and don't actually know whether the two in question are remorseful, defiant, apologetic, callous, confused, mentally unstable, or any number of other factors that would influence whether or not a prosecutor would push for a stronger conviction, there's always a case to be made (and one that absolutely WOULD have been made if they HAD been convicted of a major sentence) that simply throwing them in prison accomplishes absolutely nothing of value other than pretty much guaranteeing that they likely come out the other side of the system as hardened criminals. Most teenagers have shit judgment in general. In this case, it's not that hard to argue that the entire situation escalated far beyond what they originally intended. The US justice system isn't a simple consequentialist system - intent matters almost as much as outcome. That can be a HUGE mitigating factor in this case (even for adults, it can be the difference between 10 years and 100 years). And that's even ignoring the statement in that article itself that flat-out says that the 13-year old couldn't legally be prosecuted as an adult even if everyone involved wanted to, because existing DC law doesn't allow it (because again, children that young are by definition not considered to be mentally capable of understanding the consequences of their actions to a sufficient degree necessary to be fully culpable for their criminal actions). streamofthesky posted... No one expected them to get life in jail or anything, but this is outrageous. They're still probably going to be incarcerated for years. They'll just get passed into psych and social rehab programs rather than jail. Which, to be fair, may still result in them getting out as hardened criminals, with no remorse for their prior actions, and likely to commit further violent crimes. But it would still be far more likely to reform or rehabilitate them than simply throwing them into general population and then throwing them back on to the street in another 20 years when they make parole and have no real education and piss-poor social skills. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:952529728] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote><cite>streamofthesky posted...</cite> <quote>The prosecutors wouldn't even try them as adults.</quote> Because they're, you know, not adults. <cite>streamofthesky posted...</cite> <quote>Plenty of 15 year olds have been tried as adult and gotten prison time, and for crimes less heinous than this.</quote> And most of the time, people whine about that, too. Even putting aside the fact that you know literally nothing about this case other than what you've seen online, and don't actually know whether the two in question are remorseful, defiant, apologetic, callous, confused, mentally unstable, or any number of other factors that would influence whether or not a prosecutor would push for a stronger conviction, there's always a case to be made (and one that absolutely WOULD have been made if they HAD been convicted of a major sentence) that simply throwing them in prison accomplishes absolutely nothing of value other than pretty much guaranteeing that they likely come out the other side of the system as hardened criminals. Most teenagers have shit judgment in general. In this case, it's not that hard to argue that the entire situation escalated far beyond what they originally intended. The US justice system isn't a simple consequentialist system - intent matters almost as much as outcome. That can be a HUGE mitigating factor in this case (even for adults, it can be the difference between 10 years and 100 years). And that's even ignoring the statement in that article itself that flat-out says that the 13-year old couldn't legally be prosecuted as an adult even if everyone involved wanted to, because existing DC law doesn't allow it (because again, children that young are by definition not considered to be mentally capable of understanding the consequences of their actions to a sufficient degree necessary to be fully culpable for their criminal actions). <cite>streamofthesky posted...</cite> <quote>No one expected them to get life in jail or anything, but this is outrageous.</quote> They're still probably going to be incarcerated for years. They'll just get passed into psych and social rehab programs rather than jail. Which, to be fair, may still result in them getting out as hardened criminals, with no remorse for their prior actions, and likely to commit further violent crimes. But it would still be far more likely to reform or rehabilitate them than simply throwing them into general population and then throwing them back on to the street in another 20 years when they make parole and have no real education and piss-poor social skills.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 04/06/21 1:26:07 PM #7:	ParanoidObsessive posted... Even putting aside the fact that you know literally nothing about this case other than what you've seen online Likewise, I could preface every single response to you with, "granted, that you have no idea WTF you're talking about," but it just seemed kinda rude, you know? and don't actually know whether the two in question are remorseful, defiant, apologetic, callous, confused, mentally unstable, or any number of other factors that would influence whether or not a prosecutor would push for a stronger conviction, there's always a case to be made (and one that absolutely WOULD have been made if they HAD been convicted of a major sentence) that simply throwing them in prison accomplishes absolutely nothing of value other than pretty much guaranteeing that they likely come out the other side of the system as hardened criminals. They already are hardened criminals! And I love how you only look at what is useful for the two criminals, that "nothing of value" can be gained for them by a prison sentence. What about justice for the victim and his family? I guess justice is of no value.... And why are you just assuming the decision to not charge the 15 year old as an adult or put either in prison at all is sound, as if prosecutors are always infallible and there's never been cases of them going overly harsh or lenient on certain people, let alone more heinous acts like withholding evidence from the defense? Most teenagers have shit judgment in general. In this case, it's not that hard to argue that the entire situation escalated far beyond what they originally intended. The US justice system isn't a simple consequentialist system - intent matters almost as much as outcome. That can be a HUGE mitigating factor in this case (even for adults, it can be the difference between 10 years and 100 years). It's not the difference between 10 or 100 years of prison in this case, though. Or even 2 vs. 20. It's 0 vs. anything. And that's even ignoring the statement in that article itself that flat-out says that the 13-year old couldn't legally be prosecuted as an adult even if everyone involved wanted to, because existing DC law doesn't allow it (because again, children that young are by definition not considered to be mentally capable of understanding the consequences of their actions to a sufficient degree necessary to be fully culpable for their criminal actions). The guy was clinging to the door frame and THEN they sped off. Even the 13 year old should know damn well how dangerous that is, let alone the 15 year old. They're still probably going to be incarcerated for years. They'll just get passed into psych and social rehab programs rather than jail. They're going to be held until age 21, and not in jail (so probably juvenile detention). Which...makes it sound like the 13 year old is actually getting the harsher punishment, ironically. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:952530221] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>Even putting aside the fact that you know literally nothing about this case other than what you've seen online</quote>Likewise, I could preface every single response to you with, "granted, that you have no idea WTF you're talking about," but it just seemed kinda rude, you know? <quote>and don't actually know whether the two in question are remorseful, defiant, apologetic, callous, confused, mentally unstable, or any number of other factors that would influence whether or not a prosecutor would push for a stronger conviction, there's always a case to be made (and one that absolutely WOULD have been made if they HAD been convicted of a major sentence) that simply throwing them in prison accomplishes absolutely nothing of value other than pretty much guaranteeing that they likely come out the other side of the system as hardened criminals.</quote>They already are hardened criminals! And I love how you only look at what is useful for the two criminals, that "nothing of value" can be gained for them by a prison sentence. What about justice for the victim and his family? I guess justice is of no value.... And why are you just assuming the decision to not charge the 15 year old as an adult or put either in prison at all is sound, as if prosecutors are always infallible and there's never been cases of them going overly harsh or lenient on certain people, let alone more heinous acts like withholding evidence from the defense? <quote>Most teenagers have shit judgment in general. In this case, it's not that hard to argue that the entire situation escalated far beyond what they originally intended. The US justice system isn't a simple consequentialist system - intent matters almost as much as outcome. That can be a HUGE mitigating factor in this case (even for adults, it can be the difference between 10 years and 100 years).</quote>It's not the difference between 10 or 100 years of prison in this case, though. Or even 2 vs. 20. It's 0 vs. anything. <quote>And that's even ignoring the statement in that article itself that flat-out says that the 13-year old couldn't legally be prosecuted as an adult even if everyone involved wanted to, because existing DC law doesn't allow it (because again, children that young are by definition not considered to be mentally capable of understanding the consequences of their actions to a sufficient degree necessary to be fully culpable for their criminal actions).</quote>The guy was clinging to the door frame and THEN they sped off. Even the 13 year old should know damn well how dangerous that is, let alone the 15 year old. <quote>They're still probably going to be incarcerated for years. They'll just get passed into psych and social rehab programs rather than jail.</quote>They're going to be held until age 21, and not in jail (so probably juvenile detention). Which...makes it sound like the 13 year old is actually getting the harsher punishment, ironically. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 04/06/21 1:56:58 PM #8:	streamofthesky posted... This is fucking disgusting. No jail time! jfc, I know you love your pound of flesh, but this is insane. They're 13 & 15, and being sent to juvie -- the kids equivalent of prison -- for their crime. (The portion you cite notes that they're being "held", which suggests a confinement of some kind. It's not like all they were was grounded.) Brutalizing offenders doesn't restore their victims and, while retributive justice sometimes feels good, it doesn't really do that much good for anybody beyond a feeling of schadenfreude. streamofthesky posted... No way in hell if they were teen boys would the prosecutors have decided to stop doing their jobs. Which is a problem. However, just because they're doing the wrong thing with boys, doesn't mean they should do the wrong thing with girls. streamofthesky posted... Plenty of 15 year olds have been tried as adult and gotten prison time, and for crimes less heinous than this. Which is a problem, not a prescription. streamofthesky posted... They already are hardened criminals! I must have missed that part? You certainly didn't list them having a prior history of violence and already being in juvie. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:952531374] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>This is fucking disgusting. No jail time!</quote> jfc, I know you love your pound of flesh, but this is insane. They're 13 & 15, and being sent to juvie -- the kids equivalent of prison -- for their crime. (The portion you cite notes that they're being "held", which suggests a confinement of some kind. It's not like all they were was grounded.) Brutalizing offenders doesn't restore their victims and, while retributive justice sometimes feels good, it doesn't really do that much good for anybody beyond a feeling of schadenfreude. streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>No way in hell if they were teen boys would the prosecutors have decided to stop doing their jobs.</quote> Which is a problem. However, just because they're doing the wrong thing with boys, doesn't mean they should do the wrong thing with girls. streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>Plenty of 15 year olds have been tried as adult and gotten prison time, and for crimes less heinous than this.</quote> Which is a problem, not a prescription. streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>They already are hardened criminals!</quote> I must have missed that part? You certainly didn't list them having a prior history of violence and already being in juvie. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jen0125 04/06/21 2:01:02 PM #9:	This is common with youth offenders. They want to focus on rehabilitation. --- https://imgur.com/4ihiyS2 "I am not gay! Can't you get that through your head? I am very much aroused at the site of a naked woman!" - Dan0429 <cite>Jen0125 posted [p:952531546] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>This is common with youth offenders. They want to focus on rehabilitation. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jen0125 04/06/21 2:03:20 PM #10:	streamofthesky posted... They're going to be held until age 21, and not in jail (so probably juvenile detention). After age 18 they can't be in juvie anymore. --- https://imgur.com/4ihiyS2 "I am not gay! Can't you get that through your head? I am very much aroused at the site of a naked woman!" - Dan0429 <cite>Jen0125 posted [p:952531637] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>They're going to be held until age 21, and not in jail (so probably juvenile detention).</quote> After age 18 they can't be in juvie anymore. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 04/06/21 2:36:32 PM #11:	streamofthesky posted... Why the f* was a "plea deal" even necessary when they were on video committing the crime and there were witnesses? If I had to guess, rich parents with a good enough lawyer to draw out the trial long enough that cutting it short was preferable to pushing for a harsher sentence. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:952532909] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>Why the f* was a "plea deal" even necessary when they were on video committing the crime and there were witnesses?</quote> If I had to guess, rich parents with a good enough lawyer to draw out the trial long enough that cutting it short was preferable to pushing for a harsher sentence. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 04/06/21 7:03:49 PM #12:	Jen0125 posted... After age 18 they can't be in juvie anymore. Washington Post says they can be held there until 21, guess it varies. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:952542252] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>Jen0125 posted... </cite> <quote>After age 18 they can't be in juvie anymore.</quote>Washington Post says they can be held there until 21, guess it varies. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlackScythe0 04/06/21 7:12:00 PM #13:	ParanoidObsessive posted... It's not a gender thing. It's also not a race thing. It's an age thing. That's it. Not buying it. I 100% believe if these were males they would be much harder on them. The idea that they are getting a plea deal at all is mind boggling to me. Usually plea deals are used to get people to plea to something they didn't do so prosecutors can say "We're tough on crime!" <cite>BlackScythe0 posted [p:952542561] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>It's not a gender thing. It's also not a race thing. It's an age thing. That's it.</quote> Not buying it. I 100% believe if these were males they would be much harder on them. The idea that they are getting a plea deal at all is mind boggling to me. Usually plea deals are used to get people to plea to something they didn't do so prosecutors can say "We're tough on crime!" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Veedrock- 04/06/21 7:20:26 PM #14:	BlackScythe0 posted... Usually plea deals are used to get people to plea to something they didn't do You watch too much TV. Or not enough. --- My friends call me Vee. I'm not your friend, buddy. <cite>Veedrock- posted [p:952542857] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>BlackScythe0 posted... </cite> <quote>Usually plea deals are used to get people to plea to something they didn't do</quote>You watch too much TV. Or not enough. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 04/06/21 7:42:20 PM #15:	adjl posted... If I had to guess, rich parents with a good enough lawyer to draw out the trial long enough that cutting it short was preferable to pushing for a harsher sentence. They look dressed fairly poorly, so that theory seems unlikely. Otherwise most cases never go to trial. BlackScythe0 posted... Not buying it. I 100% believe if these were males they would be much harder on them. The idea that they are getting a plea deal at all is mind boggling to me. Usually plea deals are used to get people to plea to something they didn't do so prosecutors can say "We're tough on crime!" But yeah, they probably would have been harder on them if they were males, but that doesn't mean they should have been. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:952543683] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>adjl posted... </cite> <quote>If I had to guess, rich parents with a good enough lawyer to draw out the trial long enough that cutting it short was preferable to pushing for a harsher sentence.</quote> They look dressed fairly poorly, so that theory seems unlikely. Otherwise most cases never go to trial. BlackScythe0 posted... </cite> <quote>Not buying it. I 100% believe if these were males they would be much harder on them. The idea that they are getting a plea deal at all is mind boggling to me. Usually plea deals are used to get people to plea to something they didn't do so prosecutors can say "We're tough on crime!"</quote> But yeah, they probably would have been harder on them if they were males, but that doesn't mean they should have been. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
deoxxys 04/06/21 7:48:06 PM #16:	streamofthesky posted... Two girls, ages 13 and 15, who were charged with the murder and carjacking of a Pakistani immigrant killed last month lmao another great example of how teenagers are just as shitty as adults but only get things easy because "they are poor innocent children". I was plenty aware of the gravity of my actions as a 15 year old (and thats even with a mental disability) Lock'em up for 20 years minimum. --- twylite sprinkle http://tinyurl.com/jeqyas3 https://tinyurl.com/mgvx7h2 <cite>deoxxys posted [p:952543904] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>Two girls, ages 13 and 15, who were charged with the murder and carjacking of a Pakistani immigrant killed last month</quote>lmao another great example of how teenagers are just as shitty as adults but only get things easy because "they are poor innocent children". I was plenty aware of the gravity of my actions as a 15 year old (and thats even with a mental disability) Lock'em up for 20 years minimum. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlackScythe0 04/06/21 9:49:37 PM #17:	Veedrock- posted... You watch too much TV. Or not enough. Or know a couple people who got into this situation where the government was going to throw a ton of money into "experts" and their public defender told them to take the deal. <cite>BlackScythe0 posted [p:952548355] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>Veedrock- posted... </cite> <quote>You watch too much TV. Or not enough.</quote>Or know a couple people who got into this situation where the government was going to throw a ton of money into "experts" and their public defender told them to take the deal. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReturnOfFa 04/06/21 9:56:10 PM #18:	All pretty awful, but PO is right. I'd still be fine with firm punishment, but that's the deal. They're Juvies. Being surprised by this is uhhh. --- girls like my fa <cite>ReturnOfFa posted [p:952548615] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>All pretty awful, but PO is right. I'd still be fine with firm punishment, but that's the deal. They're Juvies. Being surprised by this is uhhh. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 04/06/21 10:15:18 PM #19:	BlackScythe0 posted... Or know a couple people who got into this situation where the government was going to throw a ton of money into "experts" and their public defender told them to take the deal. Usually it's the other way around honestly. Often a plea deal is reached when they're pretty sure the accused is guilty but it's simply easier to circumvent the trial process if possible. And the accused gets a lesser sentence in exchange for what is, more or less, a confession that makes everyone's lives easier <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:952549371] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>BlackScythe0 posted... </cite> <quote>Or know a couple people who got into this situation where the government was going to throw a ton of money into "experts" and their public defender told them to take the deal.</quote>Usually it's the other way around honestly. Often a plea deal is reached when they're pretty sure the accused is guilty but it's simply easier to circumvent the trial process if possible. And the accused gets a lesser sentence in exchange for what is, more or less, a confession that makes everyone's lives easier </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vtriggering 04/11/21 6:43:07 PM #20:	So they basically walk free after 21. Will they even get criminal records? We don't even know the names of these murderers. --- https://imgur.com/Ocr0o9m <cite>Vtriggering posted [p:952723858] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>So they basically walk free after 21. Will they even get criminal records? We don't even know the names of these murderers. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 04/11/21 6:57:06 PM #21:	Vtriggering posted... So they basically walk free after 21. Will they even get criminal records? We don't even know the names of these murderers. They will be held up to 21. They can easily be released sooner than that, and it's based entirely on whether they're considered "rehabilitated" or not, with punishment for their crime having fuck all to do w/ it. Because there isn't a long and documented history of repeat offenders and high recidivism rate, so we should trust the authorities to know when they're no longer a danger to society. And no, we'll probably never learn their identities, even after they turn 18. Meanwhile, out of curiosity, I googled, "15 year old jailed for" and got results like these: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michigan-judge-denies-release-teenage-girl-who-was-jailed-after-n1234377 Apparently not doing homework is bad enough to get part of your name released to the public, but murder is not. https://www.delcotimes.com/news/15-year-old-arrested-for-double-homicide/article_f6f9f09e-7301-11eb-9a2d-4b47099517e7.html 14 years old (at the time of the crime), tried as an adult, and denied bail. But it was a boy, so...fair, next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Tate He was 12, and got life in prison. But yeah, expecting the suspects in this case to even spend 5 years in adult prison is asking too much. (He was eventually released, and went on to become a fine, upstanding citizen...psych!) ~~Mind you, I don't agree with all of the above actions/sentences, just using them as examples to highlight how FUCKING RIDICULOUS this plea deal is by comparison.~~ <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:952724290] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>Vtriggering posted... </cite> <quote>So they basically walk free after 21. Will they even get criminal records? We don't even know the names of these murderers.</quote>They will be held up to 21. They can easily be released sooner than that, and it's based entirely on whether they're considered "rehabilitated" or not, with punishment for their crime having fuck all to do w/ it. Because there isn't a long and documented history of repeat offenders and high recidivism rate, so we should trust the authorities to know when they're no longer a danger to society. And no, we'll probably never learn their identities, even after they turn 18. Meanwhile, out of curiosity, I googled, "15 year old jailed for" and got results like these: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michigan-judge-denies-release-teenage-girl-who-was-jailed-after-n1234377 Apparently not doing homework is bad enough to get part of your name released to the public, but murder is not. https://www.delcotimes.com/news/15-year-old-arrested-for-double-homicide/article_f6f9f09e-7301-11eb-9a2d-4b47099517e7.html 14 years old (at the time of the crime), tried as an adult, and denied bail. But it was a boy, so...fair, next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Tate He was 12, and got life in prison. But yeah, expecting the suspects in this case to even spend 5 years in adult prison is asking too much. (He was eventually released, and went on to become a fine, upstanding citizen...psych!) Mind you, I don't agree with all of the above actions/sentences, just using them as examples to highlight how FUCKING RIDICULOUS this plea deal is by comparison. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 04/12/21 1:41:36 PM #22:	streamofthesky posted... They will be held up to 21. They can easily be released sooner than that, and it's based entirely on whether they're considered "rehabilitated" or not, with punishment for their crime having fuck all to do w/ it. Because there isn't a long and documented history of repeat offenders and high recidivism rate, so we should trust the authorities to know when they're no longer a danger to society. And no, we'll probably never learn their identities, even after they turn 18. Meanwhile, out of curiosity, I googled, "15 year old jailed for" and got results like these: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michigan-judge-denies-release-teenage-girl-who-was-jailed-after-n1234377 Apparently not doing homework is bad enough to get part of your name released to the public, but murder is not. https://www.delcotimes.com/news/15-year-old-arrested-for-double-homicide/article_f6f9f09e-7301-11eb-9a2d-4b47099517e7.html 14 years old (at the time of the crime), tried as an adult, and denied bail. But it was a boy, so...fair, next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Tate He was 12, and got life in prison. But yeah, expecting the suspects in this case to even spend 5 years in adult prison is asking too much. (He was eventually released, and went on to become a fine, upstanding citizen...psych!) ~~Mind you, I don't agree with all of the above actions/sentences, just using them as examples to highlight how FUCKING RIDICULOUS this plea deal is by comparison.~~ ...you're aware that you're comparing AMERICAN cases to a British case, right? It's particularly worth noting because America's "justice" system is arguably the most brutal in the developed world (and, I should mention, has the world's highest per capita incarceration rate -- largely because of the ridiculous length of its sentences). --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:952751791] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>They will be held up to 21. They can easily be released sooner than that, and it's based entirely on whether they're considered "rehabilitated" or not, with punishment for their crime having fuck all to do w/ it. Because there isn't a long and documented history of repeat offenders and high recidivism rate, so we should trust the authorities to know when they're no longer a danger to society. And no, we'll probably never learn their identities, even after they turn 18. Meanwhile, out of curiosity, I googled, "15 year old jailed for" and got results like these: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michigan-judge-denies-release-teenage-girl-who-was-jailed-after-n1234377 Apparently not doing homework is bad enough to get part of your name released to the public, but murder is not. https://www.delcotimes.com/news/15-year-old-arrested-for-double-homicide/article_f6f9f09e-7301-11eb-9a2d-4b47099517e7.html 14 years old (at the time of the crime), tried as an adult, and denied bail. But it was a boy, so...fair, next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Tate He was 12, and got life in prison. But yeah, expecting the suspects in this case to even spend 5 years in adult prison is asking too much. (He was eventually released, and went on to become a fine, upstanding citizen...psych!) Mind you, I don't agree with all of the above actions/sentences, just using them as examples to highlight how FUCKING RIDICULOUS this plea deal is by comparison.</quote> ...you're aware that you're comparing AMERICAN cases to a British case, right? It's particularly worth noting because America's "justice" system is arguably the most brutal in the developed world (and, I should mention, has the world's highest per capita incarceration rate -- largely because of the ridiculous length of its sentences). </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 04/12/21 2:09:28 PM #23:	Zeus posted... ...you're aware that you're comparing AMERICAN cases to a British case, right? It's particularly worth noting because America's "justice" system is arguably the most brutal in the developed world (and, I should mention, has the world's highest per capita incarceration rate -- largely because of the ridiculous length of its sentences). ...Literally WTF are you talking about? First link is Michigan, 2nd link is Pennsylvania, 3rd is Florida. If you're referring to the case this topic is about, that happened in literally the U.S. capital. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:952752725] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>...you're aware that you're comparing AMERICAN cases to a British case, right? It's particularly worth noting because America's "justice" system is arguably the most brutal in the developed world (and, I should mention, has the world's highest per capita incarceration rate -- largely because of the ridiculous length of its sentences).</quote>...Literally WTF are you talking about? First link is Michigan, 2nd link is Pennsylvania, 3rd is Florida. If you're referring to the case this topic is about, that happened in literally the U.S. capital. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 04/12/21 2:18:05 PM #24:	streamofthesky posted... ...Literally WTF are you talking about? First link is Michigan, 2nd link is Pennsylvania, 3rd is Florida. If you're referring to the case this topic is about, that happened in literally the U.S. capital. Whoops. Between your update and when you'd originally posted the story it'd been a week and for some reason I thought I remembered it happening in the UK. I withdraw my previous post. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:952753051] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>...Literally WTF are you talking about? First link is Michigan, 2nd link is Pennsylvania, 3rd is Florida. If you're referring to the case this topic is about, that happened in literally the U.S. capital.</quote> Whoops. Between your update and when you'd originally posted the story it'd been a week and for some reason I thought I remembered it happening in the UK. I withdraw my previous post. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 04/12/21 2:47:24 PM #25:	Zeus posted... Whoops. Between your update and when you'd originally posted the story it'd been a week and for some reason I thought I remembered it happening in the UK. I withdraw my previous post. No problem, it happens. See you in a week when you try to get the last word in on a dead topic. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:952754116] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>Whoops. Between your update and when you'd originally posted the story it'd been a week and for some reason I thought I remembered it happening in the UK. I withdraw my previous post.</quote>No problem, it happens. See you in a week when you try to get the last word in on a dead topic. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 04/12/21 2:58:50 PM #26:	streamofthesky posted... See you in a week when you try to get the last word in on a dead topic. streamofthesky (Topic Creator) 4/11/2021 6:57:06 PM #21 Your last post was 12-13 hours before I posted. That's one crazy statute of posting limitations. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:952754514] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>See you in a week when you try to get the last word in on a dead topic.</quote> <quote>streamofthesky (Topic Creator) 4/11/2021 6:57:06 PM #21</quote> Your last post was 12-13 hours before I posted. That's one crazy statute of posting limitations. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 04/12/21 3:02:27 PM #27:	Zeus posted... Your last post was 12-13 hours before I posted. That's one crazy statute of posting limitations. Wasn't accusing your prior post of that. I was predicting the future based on past performance. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:952754629] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>Your last post was 12-13 hours before I posted. That's one crazy statute of posting limitations.</quote>Wasn't accusing your prior post of that. I was predicting the future based on past performance. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 04/12/21 3:16:59 PM #28:	streamofthesky posted... Wasn't accusing your prior post of that. I was predicting the future based on past performance. https://www.thebalance.com/past-performance-is-no-guarantee-of-future-results-357862 Otherwise blame the "More topics from this board" reminding me that something exists, or enough other tagged topics purging that I wind up checking an older topic then seeing something that either directly pertains to me or is something upon which I want to comment. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:952755120] in The justic... [t:79390681]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>Wasn't accusing your prior post of that. I was predicting the future based on past performance.</quote> https://www.thebalance.com/past-performance-is-no-guarantee-of-future-results-357862 Otherwise blame the "More topics from this board" reminding me that something exists, or enough other tagged topics purging that I wind up checking an older topic then seeing something that either directly pertains to me or is something upon which I want to comment. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > The justice system failed Mohammad Anwar (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > The justice system failed Mohammad Anwar