Current Events > Demi Lovato: Gender reveal parties are transphobic.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Medussa posted...

1% of the population is millions of people.

what about less than 1%?

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Demi Lovato is an idiot and so is anybody who agrees with her.

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Conflict posted...

Who cares?

Do you think they're people or not?

they are absolutely people
who said that they are not? laughing at this and saying it's ridiculous absolutely does not mean what you want it to

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Conflict posted...

So what's the point of asking about how much of the population is trans

I'm curious where you thought you were going with that thought process

It definitely matters when considering the wants/needs of people who are not trans.

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SquirtleSkwad posted...

It definitely matters when considering the wants/needs of people who are not trans.

And what would those be in this context?

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Conflict posted...

So what's the point of asking about how much of the population is trans
I'm curious where you thought you were going with that thought process

context is helpful for me

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Lebronwon posted...

Transphobia is not just about prejudice against individual trans people, its also a way of thinking that understands non-trans people as more natural/organic and erases everyone else, read the post. These ideas, like the gender binary, fuel mistreatment of all people, but especially trans and gender non-conforming people. Gender reveals are based on the illusion that genitals = gender and that there are only two options boy or girl, it continued. This definition erases the fact that there are boys with vaginas and girls with penises and that there are people who are neither boys nor girls. The idea that sex is based on genitalia is inconsistent with science.

They arent wrong

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Conflict posted...

Who cares?

Do you think they're people or not?

"Who Cares" is my question to this entire topic existing in the first place

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Remind me never to go against you guys in fighting games the way y'all dodge.

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CyricZ posted...

Remind me never to go against you guys in fighting games the way y'all dodge.

I still never got the answer from you on how Alex Jones is a white supremacist

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MushroomMuncher posted...

I still never got the answer from you on how Alex Jones is a white supremacist

Oh that was you?

Actually I did. You just didn't like the answer. You have very very high standards on who is worthy of being dubbed a white supremacist.

EDIT: (Another dodge from you by the dubs).

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CyricZ posted...

Actually I did

No you didn't

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Wow way to make this topic about me now. You going to even address the actual topic questions?

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CyricZ posted...

Wow way to make this topic about me now. You going to even address the actual topic questions?

I'm just one guy bro, not trying to make it about you. I've already answered most of the answers in this topic, even the OP.

Oh wait I didn't answer that one let me try again
[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yes but they're still less than 1%. Its like making metal umbrellas just in the small percentage chance you get struck by lightning in a thunderstorm.

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Master Kazuya posted...

How is this transphobic whatsoever?

It's not. Gender reveal parties are stupid, and when fireworks or explosives get involved they're downright dangerous, but to call them transphobic is quite a reach. What often gets lost on the Internet is that intention and motive matter. People that are excited about their child, and if they're being honest also wanting attention from others around them, aren't being transphobic. The parties are essentially for the parents; the unborn child certainly isn't going to care or know what's going on.

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DuneMan posted...

People that are excited about their child, and if they're being honest also wanting attention from others around them, aren't being transphobic. The parties are essentially for the parents; the unborn child certainly isn't going to care or know what's going on.

So what do people get out of a gender reveal?

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Attention. They get attention.

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CyricZ posted...

So what do people get out of a gender reveal?

They get to stoke their hatreds, presumably?

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Well yeah, if we're thinking about the parents.

But what about the people attending a gender reveal party? What do they get?

Like beyond the standard "general health and well-being of the baby"

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CyricZ posted...

Well yeah, if we're thinking about the parents.

But what about the people attending a gender reveal party? What do they get?

Like beyond the standard "general health and well-being of the baby"

Dude

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They get what people get from attending any party. It's to foster and maintain social relationships.

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Conflict posted...

That's a horrendous analogy. And like I said before, you sound just like Rush Limbaugh who basically expressed black people's rights weren't worth being concerned about because they only took up 13% of the population

Lol you're talking about minority rights vs less than 1% of the population calling for stupid parties to be forever done away with because they don't like them

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how many people does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong, hmm? A thousand? fifty thousand? A million? How many people does it take, Admiral?

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I would love my child regardless of what chromosomes they have or what they identify as. That said, no, a gender reveal party isn't inherently transphobic at all. Throw a party, but still love your child even if they go trans.

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Okay I'll just say what I'm thinking rather than be coy about it.

What does the average person involved in the incoming child's life get out of a gender reveal?

They already know a baby's coming, and ultrasounds will contribute to being excited that the baby is healthy and growing well, and that's nice too.

But would they interact with the infant any differently if they were one gender or another? Probably not. Babies come out as little blobs anyway, with no personality yet developed. May help with the parents in buying diapers, but that's about it.

And that's the point. The only reason to give the public a "gender reveal" is to know what things to buy them. If you announce "it's a girl" then the frilly lacey pony princess stuff starts. Announce "It's a boy" and in come the trucks, sports stuff, and *gag* military stuff in certain families. I've seen it. >_<

Like whenever someone I knew kept their gender a secret, the complaints I heard was "Well now I won't know what to get them."

And you can say "Hey now I know plenty of people who buy gender neutral for their kids" and that's great. Which at the end of the day makes a "gender reveal" even more self-indulgent when you think about it.

It's not "hedging your bets just in case the baby's transgender". It's realizing that these kind of things are what contribute to gender enforcing behavior towards the child.

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Wrong? We are still talking about a party where people tell their friends and family that they are birthing a human with a dick, right?

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Conflict posted...

I've always been talking about minority rights. We're not just talking about this, we're talking about general social acceptance, protections against discrimination, bathroom laws and so on.

Oh I'm just talking about this so...

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Conflict posted...

That's a horrendous analogy. And like I said before, you sound just like Rush Limbaugh who basically expressed black people's rights weren't worth being concerned about because they only took up 13% of the population

The entire argument of the TC is people shouldn't host Gender reveal parties because its transphobic and might be offensive to potential children who become transgender in the future. This isn't about the worth of trans people, this is about a hypothetical they might be trans that has a less than 1% chance of happening because the percentage of trans people is less than %1 (In the US at least). And no, its not like black people's rights at all, if someone is black, I don't think there needs to be a discussion on if they're black or not, because it would be pretty obvious. The entire argument here is "But WHAT IF, they're trans"?

If you want a better analogy, its like saying parents shouldn't take their kids/babies to church because they have a 4% chance of becoming an atheist in the future. (That was the last recorded percentage of Atheists in the US according to Pew)

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CyricZ posted...

Okay I'll just say what I'm thinking rather than be coy about it.

What does the average person involved in the incoming child's life get out of a gender reveal?

They already know a baby's coming, and ultrasounds will contribute to being excited that the baby is healthy and growing well, and that's nice too.

But would they interact with the infant any differently if they were one gender or another? Probably not. Babies come out as little blobs anyway, with no personality yet developed. May help with the parents in buying diapers, but that's about it.

And that's the point. The only reason to give the public a "gender reveal" is to know what things to buy them. If you announce "it's a girl" then the frilly lacey pony princess stuff starts. Announce "It's a boy" and in come the trucks, sports stuff, and *gag* military stuff in certain families. I've seen it. >_<

Like whenever someone I knew kept their gender a secret, the complaints I heard was "Well now I won't know what to get them."

And you can say "Hey now I know plenty of people who buy gender neutral for their kids" and that's great. Which at the end of the day makes a "gender reveal" even more self-indulgent when you think about it.

It's not "hedging your bets just in case the baby's transgender". It's realizing that these kind of things are what contribute to gender enforcing behavior towards the child.

The majority of people's gender conforms to their sex. We can be sensitive to the needs of those who do not without needing to force this idea that gendered things are inherently harmful. Things like not forcing stereotypes on kids, like belittling a boy for wanting to play with a doll, are things parents can do. Beyond that, we're just getting silly.

Conflict posted...

That's generally my issue with "they only take up x% of the population", it comes off as invalidating the struggles of marginalized people. I don't even think many transgender people are talking about gender reveal parties in general, but the parties do seem pretty dumb for many different reasons

Oh they have struggles no doubt, but the entire original post is basically saying "Stop doing this thing thats been done for decades because there's a very small chance your child might end up in this small percentage of people"

If the couple who chose to procreate to have the baby, chose to keep the baby, and chose to raise the baby, I think they also have the right to gender the baby until the baby is old enough to make its own decisions

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CyricZ posted...

But would they interact with the infant any differently if they were one gender or another? Probably not. Babies come out as little blobs anyway, with no personality yet developed. May help with the parents in buying diapers, but that's about it.

And that's the point. The only reason to give the public a "gender reveal" is to know what things to buy them. If you announce "it's a girl" then the frilly lacey pony princess stuff starts. Announce "It's a boy" and in come the trucks, sports stuff, and *gag* military stuff in certain families. I've seen it. >_<

Well don't you think that's a bigger problem in general? Gender stereotyping? One the main ways people use to see if a kid is trans is what toys they play with. I mean really? Are we really taking two step forwards and two steps back and using the most cookie cutter stereotypes to determine what gender the kid will want to be when they grow up?

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nemu posted...

The majority of people's gender conforms to their sex. We can be sensitive to the needs of those who do not without needing to force this idea that gendered things are inherently harmful. Things like not forcing stereotypes on kids, like belittling a boy for wanting to play with a doll, are things parents can do. Beyond that, we're just getting silly.

Where do you think overt things like forcing stereotypes come from?

They come from presumptions, expectations, adherence to tradition.

The people who force these stereotypes start small by attaching their own view of the child to them, even if that doesn't necessarily match. It starts with things like gendered clothes and toys, "What a brave strong man, gonna be a fighter, gonna be a football player".

Yeah, it's little things, but as Hank Scorpio said, "It's the little things that make up life". Gender reveal parties may be yet another of those little things, but it's still it's own small kind of gender enforcement, and it's implemented before even the child is born.

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don't give those cishets an inch cyric

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CyricZ posted...

Where do you think overt things like forcing stereotypes come from?

They come from presumptions, expectations, adherence to tradition.

I mean we're really no better, considering most of the time any time someone shows a bit of femininity people automatically jump to the conclusions they must be trans. (I see this happen on Twitter all the time) Or masculinity or anything like that. Its our own expectations they MUST be the opposite gender instead. And they very could be, or they could just not fit the stereotypical mold we already have in our heads.

Do Tomboys exist anymore? Remember the Metrosexual phase of the late 90s early 00s? What happened to those?

And by saying "our" i'm really just talking about people who are obsessed with this kind of stuff, not anybody in the topic in particular.

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The only gender reveal party I want to attend is where the father lights his crotch on fire, and the expectant mother farts out blue or pink glitter.

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MushroomMuncher posted...

any time someone shows a bit of femininity people automatically jump to the conclusions they must be trans. (I see this happen on Twitter all the time)

Wait are you saying that the person themselves assumes they're trans or the people around them assume they're trans?

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CyricZ posted...

Where do you think overt things like forcing stereotypes come from?

They come from presumptions, expectations, adherence to tradition.

The people who force these stereotypes start small by attaching their own view of the child to them, even if that doesn't necessarily match. It starts with things like gendered clothes and toys, "What a brave strong man, gonna be a fighter, gonna be a football player".

Yeah, it's little things, but as Hank Scorpio said, "It's the little things that make up life". Gender reveal parties may be yet another of those little things, but it's still it's own small kind of gender enforcement, and it's implemented before even the child is born.

This isn't really an all or nothing situation. There are plenty of harmful, regressive views on gender that hurt all kids, but there are also plenty that are just normal expressions of ourselves. Striving to reduce shitty attitudes does not require us to go to the complete opposite end of the spectrum that acts like all kids are neutral slates without inherent biases.

CyricZ posted...

Wait are you saying that the person themselves assumes they're trans or the people around them assume they're trans?

Both. People can make decisions for themselves, but others can make assumptions that may or may not be correct.

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Alucard188 posted...

The only gender reveal party I want to attend is where the father lights his crotch on fire, and the expectant mother farts out blue or pink glitter.

https://youtu.be/A4zuMkttq5w

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I don't even think of it as a "complete opposite end". It's just to try to lessen wherever one can these stereotypical traditions.

Like I don't expect people to be perfect 0% on the gender scale when raising their child.

I think it's more important that we take a second to look at and think about these traditions that we would otherwise think are perfectly normal and then just skip them when we can.

MushroomMuncher posted...

Both. People can make decisions for themselves, but others can make assumptions that may or may not be correct.

I mean, I'll see people talk about their own gender ID and where they're at with it at the current time and it may be in flux.

But I've never ever seen the thing you said where others assume people are trans. Like you say, that's completely defeating the point of letting someone come to their own realization about themselves.

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Regardless of gender, I buy all the kids BB guns

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CyricZ posted...

I think it's more important that we take a second to look at and think about these traditions that we would otherwise think are perfectly normal and then just skip them when we can.

It really seems like you're tying a dumb celebration party to a harmful worldview without any nuance at all though. It reminds me of the violent videogame argument, that playing violent games makes you do violent things. Or that one action leads to the next most horrible action which leads to the next. Not true. Just cause a kid steals a pack of gum in high school doesn't mean he's gonna be a bank robber when he grows up. If my friend throws a Christmas party, they aren't forcing their religion on anyone, they're just calling it a Christmas party. We don't do hymns or anything like that. Thanksgiving represents something horrible but I've gone to Thanksgiving potlucks where a bunch of people just eat and drink a shit ton.

You're acting like a father that wants a son to raise is going to be abusive and force that boy to be a man at any cost. That if his son plays with dolls, he's going to be a shitty father, rip the doll out of his hands, and force him to play with a toy gun otherwise he doesn't get to eat dinner. That's fuckin extreme. A father can want a son and the son can be feminine. The son can lean towards "girly" interests (which is silly because most people who are super into this think their version of men and women is the absolute truth) and still enjoy being identified as a boy. The son can even transition later in life and be accepted by his parents.

Do you even treat everyone the same? I don't mean with more or less respect. I mean do you make the same jokes around women that you do men? Do you talk to one more than the other about dating struggles? Is everything, the vibe, the context, the way the conversation flows, etc, is it exactly the same between men and women for you? Do you feel the same amount of pressure from approaching a group of guys as a group of girls? Just curious.

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FortuneCookie posted...

You can't call it a sex reveal party.

"I'm here for the sex party! Woo!"
"No, no, no. That's down the hall. This is the sex reveal party."
"...Oh. Sorry."

lol nice