Current Events > 'Critics are the least valid way to judge any film, book, game, or other media.'

(+) Yeah! (+)

Arguing with someone who claimed "it took kid me a while to realize Zelda ain't worth shit". This is all within a comment chain of someone defending his waifu gacha game lol. But the point is, I made the reply "Zelda is literally the most critically acclaimed video game series" and they hit me with the topic title.

Now, certainly, critical reception is not the final arbiter of whether something is good or bad, or at least, whether or not you will enjoy that thing. But I think critic scores are generally pretty helpful, especially for people with a developed sense of a medium (ie, someone that isn't impressed by literally anything because they're experiencing it for the first time).

While I originally made the comment more to poke fun at the idea of this guy being too big-brained for Zelda or something, I'm not really interested in going back in forth about how its also the most acclaimed series via fan votes or sales or what have you. I just want to try and convince them that all of metacritic isn't, as one of them said, "marketing," and that critics have actual jobs that some of them take pretty seriously. How would you respond to the topic title?

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If you can't tell what kind of media you like, critical reception isn't going to help you at all.

In the end, I would say I agree with the topic title. They kinda serve no purpose.

i don't trust movie critics anymore
too much shilling and paid bootlickers with robotic praise

Rotten Tomatoes outside of the audience score is worthless lol

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I wouldnt say the least valid way, but critics/reviews are primarily a form of entertainment unto themselves, and should be treated as such.

Especially with games, though, any form of journalism/critique needs to be taken with a massive pile of salt. >_>

personally Im at a stage in my life where i have a pretty good idea of whether Ill like something without needing reviews, unless theres a massive disparity between whats shown and what the game launches at.

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I think it's a dumb way to look at it. A critic's review is valid. 90% of fan reviews are half assed, maybe a few sentences and a score that is either a 1 or a 10. And if someone is suggesting that the only valid opinion on the quality of something is their own than that's also dumb af.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

I think it's a dumb way to look at it. A critic's review is valid. 90% of fan reviews are half assed, maybe a few sentences and a score that is either a 1 or a 10. And if someone is suggesting that the only valid opinion on the quality of something is their own than that's also dumb af.

This. The critics typically know more about the subject that they critique than the reader does and they spend tons of time reading and thinking about said subject. Usually they're good writers with good insights, even if you don't agree with them.

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I'll watch a film i like the look of, get.my thoughts on it and then afterwards I'll watch critics reactions too it.
If I find a critic that seems in line with my thoughts 9/10 times I'll watch them when it comes to films I've seen advertised but I'm not sure I want to watch. On YouTube I like Austin Burke, Jeremy Jahns and Beyond The Trailer.

I don't watch reviews of games but I will read a bit of info about them to see if they're what I'm looking for or if there's bugs etc. SpawnWave is pretty good for general news and Gameranx Before You Buy vids are good for general info.


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I'm literally a critic for a living and I would never tell you what we say is gospel, but it's so disrespectful to just act like we don't educate ourselves and hone our own craft to give thoughtful and useful analysis. If critics truly were meaningless I would be out of a job by now

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NonDairyMiltank posted...

i don't trust movie critics anymore
too much shilling and paid bootlickers with robotic praise

Rotten Tomatoes outside of the audience score is worthless lol

I've never been paid off once in my life and no one that has. If we were getting paid off it would slip out and be a big story. You have no idea what you are talking about. Critics submit their own reviews to rotten tomatoes.

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Problem with user reviews is they skew either to intense love or hate. Not as many people want to review a movie that was just kinda OK.

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I'd say critical reviews are as valid as you want them to be. All depends on whether you're willing to take their advice.

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KeeperOfShadows posted...

I'd say critical reviews are as valid as you want them to be. All depends on whether you're willing to take their advice.

This. The idea of critics is that you will most likely find someone who most reflects your own views and you will follow them.

I don't GAF about IGN reviews cause I don't know any of them and I don't have any sort of connection. I care a bunch about Easy Allies reviews because I love them and I know each of them and how close their critical views relate to me.

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A lot of people like zelda and reviewers review them highly. Its not just a long series of coincidences, theres probably a reason why the opinion on certain things are so consistent regardless of who you ask.

ask 100 people if zelda is good, youll get like 97 yes answers

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being a professional musician, I have gripes with a lot of music criticism -- partly that a lot of it romanticizes the artist to the point of engaging in Great Man Theory -- but there's still a lot of interesting things to be said about media, and it's worthwhile to consider those things. generally I find a couple critics that I like and follow them on twitter so I know what they're thinking about and when they post their reviews

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This is why sites that do a meta analysis of games, films, etc are so useful. You get the critic score, you get the fan score. Then you go somewhere in the middle as to what its really like.

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NonDairyMiltank posted...

i don't trust movie critics anymore
too much shilling and paid bootlickers with robotic praise

Rotten Tomatoes outside of the audience score is worthless lol

thats not even close to true, genius. Audience score is awful. The average person has crap taste. @NonDairyMiltank

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People are too stupid to know what they like or not. They need someone to tell them what stinks.

Idk at the end of the day, they're someone else's opinion.

I'm rather opinionated myself so I take others' recommendations as exactly that, recommendations. Not a scripture of if I'll like it or not. If there's someone who knows me well and says I should check out X, I'll check it out. If there's a critic whose thoughts align with mine on major points, or was able to convey some idea to me that opened my mind up in some way good or bad, I might check out things based on their recommendations. If a lot of people say something is good, I'll know that at there's at least a chance it's as good as it's advertised, unlike if something were getting straight 2/10s across the board.

I think reviews and well acclaimed series are good for a newbies. I might recommend Zelda if someone I knew has played video games before like Fifa and got a Switch for the first time. But if someone has tried Zelda and doesn't like it, I think it's unfair to say "but it's well acclaimed so clearly you're in the wrong". In some ways that seems like the angle you went at this TC. Like his opinion of Zelda offended you somehow or that he needed to "pay homage" or something, or maybe you thought he was just trying to be elitist in his own way, but really opinions are just opinions.

I think you should never be on either end of the spectrum, meaning you shouldn't like stuff just because it's popular and you shouldn't dislike stuff just because it's popular too.

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WallStreetWolf posted...

but it's so disrespectful to just act like we don't educate ourselves and hone our own craft to give thoughtful and useful analysis

>__________>
https://youtu.be/zbE6fqBuGkA

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Spooking posted...

S&E gave thumbs down to movies that ended up being cult classics.

Keep in mind that there's a reason cult classics are cult classics and not just classics.

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Spooking posted...

IGN took points off Dark Souls for being too hard.

S&E gave thumbs down to movies that ended up being cult classics.

So yeah, when compared to the general public critics don't seem to relate.

Our job is not to predict what people will like. I say this is someone that knows Roger Ebert's widow. Just stop talking. You clearly don't understand the point of being a critic

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CM_Ponch posted...

>__________>
https://youtu.be/zbE6fqBuGkA

Oh wow, you can point to one example of an embarrassing moment for one website of one person that made a fool of themselves. It's not like they ended up assigning that person to review the whole game

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WallStreetWolf posted...

Oh wow, you can point to one example of an embarrassing moment for one website of one person that made a fool of themselves.

If you're this booty blasted over a joke then maybe you're not the critic you think you are

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CM_Ponch posted...

If you're this booty blasted over a joke then maybe you're not the critic you think you are

I think you should read the room and take a look at how much journalism is under attack in the world. Of course I'm going to be defensive

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Serious Cat posted...

Keep in mind that there's a reason cult classics are cult classics and not just classics.

Doesn't even need to be a cult classic. Critics have always been harsh on slasher movies. They will complain that it is senseless violence, gratuitous T&A, and not much in the way of story. That is why people watch them. Nobody is looking Citizen Kane here, so stop judging it on the same standard.

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Spooking posted...

IGN took points off Dark Souls for being too hard.

S&E gave thumbs down to movies that ended up being cult classics.

So yeah, when compared to the general public critics don't seem to relate.

There's a reason we have aggregators... It's laughable to use a single critic review to say critics don't relate to 'the general public' when 'the general public' is itself an aggregate opinion. Tons of people DO think Dark Souls is too hard (I don't agree with that but there are a lot) and there have even been pretty public debates about whether these games need an 'easy mode.'

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I think critic scores are at best useful when trawling through long lists of games/movies/etc to look for stuff, like IMDB for instance. In the end I don't really see them as an indicator of quality so much as they might make me curious to know what the fuss is about.
Critical reviews and analyses are really interesting to me, though. Sometimes I might disagree with them, and other times they help me view a piece of media in a new light. Other times again I read them because I trust the tastes of a particular critic. Sometimes they help me put into words things I already think.

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loafy013 posted...

Doesn't even need to be a cult classic. Critics have always been harsh on slasher movies. They will complain that it is senseless violence, gratuitous T&A, and not much in the way of story. That is why people watch them. Nobody is looking Citizen Kane here, so stop judging it on the same standard.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1009113-halloween

Imagine thinking critics don't like to have fun.

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Indie film reviews tend to be pretty good. Book reviews are generally good too except in popular shits where there are inherent flaws in the writing that won't ever get pointed out if it's popular enough.

Video game review, however, all suck. The biggest thing is that reviews tend to not represent the way the players would actually play them. Yes, it's difficult to cover a video game from all the bases compared to more fixed experiences in other media, but at the very least there needs to be a higher standard of completion requirements. Like don't fucking play the game on easy and call the game easy, don't actively ignore side shit and how it can add to the overall game, and at least finish the fucking game. I hate the fucking day 1 review shit where the online isn't ever reviewed nor would it ever be updated to reflect the online experience. Hate that future updates that heavily improve the game aren't followed up with reviews themselves. Get rid of the garbage scoring system because it's probably the worst thing about these reviews as there are cases where a different person ends up giving a rating for the sake of consistency, and the score doesn't reflect the reviewer's opinion nor the actual quality of the game. They get away with not having these basic requirements because video game journalism isn't taken very seriously.

Yes, it's a lot of time commitment, and really the problem here is that if they don't churn out reviews, then they don't earn enough money. But that's just an excuse to distract from the real problem, and frankly, all that's required is that they play the game like most people would. Start on a reasonably difficult difficulty, and if you can't beat it, lower the difficulty and mention it in the review. If you suck ass at games, don't become a fucking video game reviewer. That doesn't require that much extra time commitment as you'll be playing through the same length of the game. Just be more efficient and better, but a lot of times these reviews tend to just be blobs for the sake of becoming a part of the metacritic score

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Breath of the Wild is a masterpiece. Even with its flaws, that game is incredible.

Whether Genshin Impact is better or not depends on the person, and both games can be considered great independently of each other. You don't have to tear one down to put the other on a pedestal.

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WallStreetWolf posted...

I think you should read the room and take a look at how much journalism is under attack in the world. Of course I'm going to be defensive

Lmfao, homie your job is to give opinions on things, if you can't take a fucking Cuphead joke then your opinion is too fragile to be taken seriously

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Critics can be dumb but getting bent out of shape because a person had an opinion about a piece of media is dumber

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User scores are worthless now as well thanks to us being in the age of review bombing.

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Spooking posted...

IGN took points off Dark Souls for being too hard.

This is the problem with review scores and sites/readers putting undue reverence on what number a game gets. Its perfectly valid in a review of Dark Souls to say that its hard and uncompromising and therefore may not be for everyone.

Who the critic is often matters a lot, so it really does depend on whose review you're reading or watching.

Also, I'm of the opinion that it's best to just watch gameplay footage of the game you're interested in until you've come to a conclusion of whether to purchase it or not. No matter how authoritative or skewed the source may be, it's good to see for yourself what the game is like while it's being played.

loafy013 posted...

Nobody is looking Citizen Kane here, so stop judging it on the same standard.

Nobody's comparing Nightmare on Elm Street to Citizen Kane. They might be comparing it to something like Psycho or Halloween though. It's perfectly fair to compare the big summer action blockbuster to King Kong or Jaws or Star Wars or Jurassic Park.

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When it comes to game reviews, I feel they should also publish how long they spent reviewing it. Not in the sense they HAVE to do literally everything, but it will give you an idea how they approached their gameplay.

Someone reviewing Hades with 15 hours experience is going to have differences in opinion from someone who has 150 hours.

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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

When it comes to game reviews, I feel they should also publish how long they spent reviewing it. Not in the sense they HAVE to do literally everything, but it will give you an idea how they approached their gameplay.

Someone reviewing Hades with 15 hours experience is going to have differences in opinion from someone who has 150 hours.

Yeah I can agree with this. Reviews should also be categorized between being reviewed through the eyes of a casual player or a hardcore player. Unfortunately nobody cares enough and the general scoring system, which is logically useless, is far too ingrained into the gaming culture

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