Board 8 > Hobbit/LOTR question

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rewatching Fellowship on Hulu

so yea, Bilbo put on the ring for a fucking dumbass parlor trick

Does Bilbo not know of the power of the Ring?

shouldn't he have known that would've made him a target or something? I feel like..he should've

I haven't read or saw that old Hobbit movie since I was 5 and I only saw the first Peter Jackson one so I don't remember anything


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also god damn Pippin and Merry suck man. Are Hobbits just jackasses?

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Punnyz posted...

Does Bilbo not know of the power of the Ring?

Nope. Not sure why you'd expect him to know anything, though. At that point, even Gandalf doesn't know for sure that Bilbo's ring is the Ring.

Punnyz posted...

Are Hobbits just jackasses?

In the Jackson films? Basically, yeah.
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Bilbo thinks of "his" ring the same way everyone thinks of Harry Potter's cloak.

"This is a neat magic trick."

And then the world realises:

"Whoa, this is the one of a kind, super-powerful invisibility granter, greater than all the others that has additional significance to the story. We thought it was just a toy for the protagonist."

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Yeah, Bilbo doesn't realize what the ring actually is any more than Gollum does. The ring doesn't have a greater significance in The Hobbit besides being able to turn him invisible.

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So this is like them making a sequel to Harry Potter and then revealing the cloak was an important historic artifact all along and it becomes the center of the plot?

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Heroic Bigpun posted...

So this is like them making a sequel to Harry Potter and then revealing the cloak was an important historic artifact all along and it becomes the center of the plot?

...did you not read the last book?

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I don't know anything about Harry Potter

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Heroic Bigpun posted...

So this is like them making a sequel to Harry Potter and then revealing the cloak was an important historic artifact all along and it becomes the center of the plot?

This is legitimately amazing.
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Punnyz posted...

I don't know anything about Harry Potter

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Well other than hes a little nerd kid and NOW I know he had a cloak

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Merry and Pippin are awesome. Moreso Pippin but they both are awesome. If you wanna see jackasses, watch the first 30 minutes of The Hobbit.

Also, of course Bilbo doesn't know the significance of the ring.

Also, does anyone care to explain the Harry Potter thing? I have seen the movies but vaguely remember them and never read the books.

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GildedFool posted...

Bilbo thinks of "his" ring the same way everyone thinks of Harry Potter's cloak.

"This is a neat magic trick."

And then the world realises:

"Whoa, this is the one of a kind, super-powerful invisibility granter, greater than all the others that has additional significance to the story. We thought it was just a toy for the protagonist."

Also, I believe that Gandalf alludes to other rings of invisibility that exist. If I remember correctly.

Nevermind he said magic rings, not invisibility rings.

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Corrik7 posted...

Also, does anyone care to explain the Harry Potter thing? I have seen the movies but vaguely remember them and never read the books.

You know how the last book is called Deathly Hallows?

The Cloak turns out to be one of the three Deathly Hallows, immense magical artifacts of power

Its not the equivalent of the One Ring, that would be the Elder Wand, but its pretty close.
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Also briefly about the One Ring

Invisibility is not necessarily what it does. Sauron doesnt become invisible when he wears it, nor did Isildur.

Hobbits (and proto-Hobbits like Smagol) become invisible when they wear the ring because it amplifies your natural tendencies, and their race is most notable for keeping to themselves and being ignored by the greater races
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And yes there are plenty of other magical rings it could have been

Three rings for the Elven kings under the sky
Seven for the Dwarf lords in their halls of stone
Nine for mortal men doomed to die
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne

The Three and some of the Seven are accounted for, Gandalf has one of the Three himself, but as far as Gandalf knew about the rest it could be any of them

Until he did more research
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Jakyl25 posted...

You know how the last book is called Deathly Hallows?

The Cloak turns out to be one of the three Deathly Hallows, immense magical artifacts of power

Its not the equivalent of the One Ring, that would be the Elder Wand, but its pretty close.

How did he get the cloak?

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It was a present from Dumbledore. It belonged to Harrys dad when he died and Dumbledore held onto it until Harry was at Hogwarts
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And yes Dumbledore knew what it was

But he also knew that the entire myth about the Deathly Hallows was overblown, and theyre just very powerful magical artifacts. There was nothing particularly special about having all three of them, nor were they actually unbeatably overpowered like Voldemort believed.
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I know Merry and Pippin definitely get better but I just forgot how much trouble they cause in the beginning is all

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Heroic Bigpun posted...

I know Merry and Pippin definitely get better but I just forgot how much trouble they cause in the beginning is all

The Shire equivalent of YouTube pranksters

But yes, its setting up their character arcs over the story
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Jakyl25 posted...

You know how the last book is called Deathly Hallows?

The Cloak turns out to be one of the three Deathly Hallows, immense magical artifacts of power

Its not the equivalent of the One Ring, that would be the Elder Wand, but its pretty close.

okay yea obviously I had no idea thats what actually happens LOL

I just didn't know the Ring was relatively insignificant in the Hobbit so I was using the cloak as an example


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Yeah as far as Bilbo knew he just won a magic ring from a cave monster by cheating at a game of riddles

Hobbits dont know shit about the history of the world
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Its just weird to me it took that long for Gandalf to put 2 and 2 together

being the all wise dude that he is

or did he even know Bilbo had that and that showing he did at the birthday party was the first he knew about it?

I also don't know how much Gandalf was in the Hobbit. Again, I only saw the first movie and he was in it for quite a bit but I dunno how much Jackson changed the story

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Gandalf pretty much figured out Bilbo had a magic ring from the minute they all got out of the cave, thought they left him behind, and then he just appears out of nowhere like see this is why you brought me, Im naturally stealthy (narrator: he wasnt)

The dwarves bought it, but Gandalf basically already knew he must have found some ring

As to why it took him so long to figure it out, he just wanted to be really sure. The Misty Mountains arent where the One Ring was lost. Like I said earlier, there are many lost rings of power.

It wasnt until he traced Gollums steps as he went searching for Bilbo and forced the info out of him that he knew for certain
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https://masteroflore.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/lrw-1.gif

You can see on this map that the place Isildur died with the ring, in the river at Gladden Fields, is like 150 miles DOWNstream from where Bilbo found his ring near Goblin-town in the mountains

Since no one in the centuries since it was lost ever came forward and tried to use it for power, it was assumed the ring must have washed down the river into the ocean.

No one conceived of a Hobbit-ish creature finding it and hoarding it, sneaking north into the mountains to use invisibility to eat random Goblins for hundreds of years and never telling anyone. Hobbits are always underestimated.
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I actually just looked it up

The One Ring was lost/hoarded by Gollum for 2,940 years

Thats a long time
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Slight amendment for Jakyl;

Isildur turned west, and drawing up the Ring that hung in a wallet from a fine chain about his neck, he set it upon his finger with a cry of pain, and was never seen again by any eye upon Middle-earth - Unfinished Tales (Disaster of the Gladden Fields chapter)

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Ok why, Tolkien
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Isildur also turns invisible in the movie, though I didnt remember if that was an invention of the film or not (until now!)

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I mean I can justify it

Its the most powerful artifact ever created this side of Valinor

If invisibility is what the wearer wants, I suppose it should grant that
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So what the ring actually does to mortals (except dwarves because ???) is move them to a parallel wraith/shadow world.

Elves partially exist in that plane already so they don't get taken there.

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Maybe because Dwarves werent created by Eru Illuvatar? Just grasping at straws here
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I suppose I sort of assumed that the invisible was almost like a "side effect" for someone who isn't Sauron getting hold of the Ring. Like, they aren't true owner so the Ring doesn't work quite right.

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GildedFool posted...

So what the ring actually does to mortals (except dwarves because ???) is move them to a parallel wraith/shadow world.

Elves partially exist in that plane already so they don't get taken there.

When has a dwarf or elf had the ring on?

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Never

Only 7 people (...beings?) ever wore the ring, and 4 of them were Hobbits

One was a Maia, one was a Man, and one was Tom Bombadil
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By the way, FUCK Tom Bombadil. Best thing the movies did was leave the guy out. I dont care how much Tolkein's kids loved him.

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in the beginning of the movie they DID establish there were a bunch of Rings but the Sauron one was the "one to rule them all"

but...we never run into the other ones, do we?

Thats some world building shit right there, more adventures to be had

also yea, during the Council scene, Boromir was like Lets just fuckin use the ring, dawg

and Aragon was like How tho

so yea, the invisibility thing is just a side effect

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GANON1025 posted...

By the way, FUCK Tom Bombadil. Best thing the movies did was leave the guy out. I dont care how much Tolkein's kids loved him.

But Tom Bombadil was the true dark lord.

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I never read the books so I dunno nothin about Tom Bombadil

@Tom_Bombadil it is your time to shine

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Punnyz posted...

but...we never run into the other ones, do we?

Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond have one on each. They are lesser rings though than the One.


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the ringwraiths/Nazgul were the nine owners of the nine rings of men who were bent to Sauron's will

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Corrik7 posted...

Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond have one on each. They are lesser rings though than the One.

oh whoops

I guess thats some book shit there

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Punnyz posted...

oh whoops

I guess thats some book shit there

They wear them in the movie.

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Punnyz posted...

but...we never run into the other ones, do we?

Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf have the Three

The Nazgul have the Nine

So we do run into most of them

The Seven are kind of just tossed aside. An unknown number of them were melted by dragon fire, whoops!
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what about the Dwarf rings

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Punnyz posted...

but...we never run into the other ones, do we?

Galadriel had one of the Three
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Corrik7 posted...

They wear them in the movie.

I meant, did the movies establish those were the rings? I don't recall that


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Jakyl25 posted...

Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf have the Three

The Nazgul have the Nine

So we do run into most of them

The Seven are kind of just tossed aside. An unknown number of them were melted by dragon fire, whoops!

4 were melted by dragon fire. The other 3 supposedly were taken by Sauron again. As likely were the Nine since we don't see them wearing them.

While we are on it, what do you guys think the Blue Wizards did in the East to defeat Sauron? It is said we don't know what they did but victory against Sauron would have been impossible without whatever they did.


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Corrik7 posted...

While we are on it, what do you guys think the Blue Wizards did in the East to defeat Sauron? It is said we don't know what they did but victory against Sauron would have been impossible without whatever they did.

The most charitable thing I can think of is by getting out of the area they werent able to be used as pawns of Saruman
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