Poll of the Day > Should Trump pardon Edward Snowden

(+) Yeah! (+)

Your thoughts?

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I was just watching a movie last night where he was mentioned...
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Didn't he give state secrets to Russia and China? Or am I thinking of someone else

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He wiki leaked stuff or something...
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At this point, probably not, he's too tied to Russia.

Snowden shouldn't have had to flee to begin with though. But we're long past that.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

At this point, probably not, he's too tied to Russia.

Snowden shouldn't have had to flee to begin with though. But we're long past that.

I think he should be pardoned, but barred from ever having a job that requires a security clearance or background check. I'd imagine plenty of private companies worried about protecting their intellectual property would avoid hiring him, too.
But he should at least be able to return to or visit the U.S. w/o fear of getting arrested. Whether or not he can find employment in his field here anymore.

streamofthesky posted...

I think he should be pardoned, but barred from ever having a job that requires a security clearance or background check. I'd imagine plenty of private companies worried about protecting their intellectual property would avoid hiring him, too.
But he should at least be able to return to or visit the U.S. w/o fear of getting arrested. Whether or not he can find employment in his field here anymore.

Yeah I'm sure there's some kind of middleground that works.

What happened to him was tragic, and I can't blame him for turning to Russia, but at the same time that's a lot of red flags.

Also just to clarify, Snowden isn't the WikiLeaks guy. He's the NSA employee who leaked that they were illegally spying on Americans.

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I dont know

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Everyone always focuses on Snowden or Manning, but I think Reality Winner (yeah, that's actually her name) is even more egregious and hopefully President Biden pardons her ASAP.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/explaining-why-reality-winner-still-prison-kerry-howley-podcast-transcript-ncna1119756

In the summer of 2017, a 25-year-old government contractor exposed detailed evidence of Russian interference in the 2016 election. Reality Winner printed out classified U.S. Intelligence documents, hid the papers in her pantyhose as she left work and then put them in the mail to The Intercept. The report they published was the first piece of concrete evidence shared with the public proving that the United States possessed tangible evidence that Russians hackers attacked American voting systems.
After The Intercept published the story complete with scans of the original papers authorities immediately traced the leak back to Reality Winner. She was arrested, denied bail and is now serving five years in a federal prison.

The story had actual U.S. intelligence documents that showed that Russian hackers had attempted this spear phishing which is the way they got into Podesta's email against a variety of American election software firms. Again, big deal, and it was the first, if I'm not mistaken, first time that we really had concrete evidence that there was tangible intelligence info that the U.S. government had possession of that showed the scope of the ambitions of what Russian hackers were doing in 2016.
That story was published. It was very notable and interesting. It appeared in The Intercept when what it demonstrated seemed to be in some tension with the kind of posture of some of the most prominent editorial voices there. And then a few days later, the person who leaked this information, a contractor with the NSA, a woman by the name Reality Winner, was arrested by the FBI. She was denied bail and ultimately sentenced to five years in federal prison.
Now, what she did was a violation of law. It was classified information that she leaked. That's illegal, but the treatment of her has been honestly insane. There is no credible evidence that the publishing of this information harm national security in any way. In fact, a lot of it hasn't been made public subsequently. In fact, there's a good case to be made it's information we should know as an informed public.
She is serving a five year sentence in federal prison and she is a really interesting case because she's the kind of person that you could imagine being kind of cause clbre as happens often with whistleblowers. People who come forward to distribute information they feel the government is hiding that the public should know about. But she's a strange case because she doesn't have a kind of natural ideological cohort backing her.

More than any of the other "leakers", she's a damn American hero. The government (especially under Trump) would've tried to sweep it under the rug if it could've.

What the heck kind of name is Reality Winner though

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Mead posted...

What the heck kind of name is Reality Winner though

On one hand, it is a silly name.
On the other hand, she gets like 1% of the media coverage Snowden and Manning get (I'm guessing a lot of people in this topic haven't even heard of this before), and the only reason I'm able to consistently remember that she's rotting in jail for the "crime" of exposing Russia's hacking is because of her incredibly memorable name.
So I guess it's a blessing, in this case.

papercup posted...

Didn't he give state secrets to Russia and China? Or am I thinking of someone else

He worked at the NSA and blew the whistle about the US Agencies collecting data on US citizens in clear violation of the 4th amendment by intercepting phone calls, emails, texts etc without Congress or US citizens knowing it because it was done under the guise of monitoring Islamic terror groups.

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LinkPizza posted...

I was just watching a movie last night where he was mentioned...

I watched Snowden on Netflix. Pretty good movie.

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LinkPizza posted...

He wiki leaked stuff or something...

He blew the whistle on the US Government Agencies spying on Americans without consent of Congress and without US Citizens knowing it because it was done in secret. That's a violation of the 4th amendment!

So whenever we send an email or make a call, the NSA is already tapped in and listening/reading. They have total access to Yahoo, hotmail, google etc email servers and most of the cell phone carriers network so they intercept our calls, emails etc, and analyze them before they reach our inbox.

So for people who send nude selfies, a bunch of geeks have seen you in your birthday suit. LOL

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He should, but he won't. I live with a 63 year old conspiracy man. It's hilarious watching people fall down the alternative media hole - why consume yourself in an idea that literally won't happen ffs. People podcast about these things every day for hours yelling about their congressional representatives. idk it all still seems like a complete wank to me. then they try to sell mugs and t-shirts at the end. nice.

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He broke the law then fled directly to enemy countries to trade secrets for protection.

Even if what he did might have initially been done with good intentions he is garbage. Fuck him.

also to the other people discussing this:

Wikileaks is Julian Assange.

Edward Snowden is the whistleblower that revealed numerous surveillance programs that entailed mass collection of everyone's data.

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BUMPED2002 posted...

I watched Snowden on Netflix. Pretty good movie.

It wasn't that movie...

BUMPED2002 posted...

So for people who send nude selfies, a bunch of geeks have seen you in your birthday suit. LOL

That's no big deal. I probably would've just sent it to them if they asked, anyway...
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Yes, but I doubt Snowden would trust a pardon from any American president given all of the shit he knows about America's illegal activities.

papercup posted...

Didn't he give state secrets to Russia and China?

lolno? He gave information to wikileaks which put a target on Julian Assange's back (and iirc might have caused problems for Glenn Greenwald).

Blightzkrieg posted...

At this point, probably not, he's too tied to Russia.

lolwut? No. And you believed he was at risk of being compromised by Russia, you'd want him OUT of Russia, not staying there.

Blightzkrieg posted...

What happened to him was tragic, and I can't blame him for turning to Russia, but at the same time that's a lot of red flags.

He didn't "turn to Russia," he wound up there because it was one of the only places that wouldn't turn around and hand him over the Americans. However, if Obama had been willing to work with Russia, I'm sure they would have betrayed Snowden.

Blightzkrieg posted...

Also just to clarify, Snowden isn't the WikiLeaks guy. He's the NSA employee who leaked that they were illegally spying on Americans.

Also just to clarify, Wikileaks helped Snowden get out of the USA, it paid many of his expenses while he was fleeing, it had a representative accompany Snowden on his flight, it reached out to embassies on Snowden's behalf, and acted as his direct representative at times. But apparently there's no Wikileaks connection -_-

streamofthesky posted...

Everyone always focuses on Snowden or Manning, but I think Reality Winner (yeah, that's actually her name) is even more egregious and hopefully President Biden pardons her ASAP.

More egregious how? -_-

However, out of everybody, Biden would be the most likely to pardon her considering that his previous boss wasn't trying to put her in prison, unlike Manning -- who was imprisoned and tortured -- and Snowden who, besides trying to have arrested, was rumored to have plotted to assassinate him (but was never verified).

And it's worth noting that the Obama-Biden administration was probably more brutally repressive when it came to the press than any presidency since that of John Adams and used the Espionage Act against more whistleblowers than all previous presidencies combined

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/jan/10/jake-tapper/cnns-tapper-obama-has-used-espionage-act-more-all-/

The press whines about Trump's mean tweets, but the Obama administration raided news offices and grabbed reporters' phone records

https://www.wired.com/2013/05/doj-got-reporter-phone-records/


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Y'all know his intention was to flee to South America not Russia right?

Putin doesn't like him there, and keeps him under constant surveillance.

Zeus posted...

More egregious how? -_-

Well, for starters it's the longest sentence in U.S. history for a leak...
Then there's the matter that unlike Manning (covert military operations) and Snowden (classified intelligence agency programs), the information she leaked was about a foreign government's operations and should have been public knowledge in the first place since it concerned attempts to undermine our election process.
So on both the severity of the punishment and the actual crime committed, it was way out of proportion.
Of course, Snowden fled before he could be jailed, so whether he'd have gotten a worse sentence or not is purely speculation w/ no way to be sure.
But at least he's (mostly) a free man. She's sitting in jail. So to me, pardoning her should be higher priority. I would pardon both, though. Manning is more complicated, maybe commute the rest of her sentence or something, she doesn't deserve a full pardon.

However, out of everybody, Biden would be the most likely to pardon her considering that his previous boss wasn't trying to put her in prison, unlike Manning...

Would've been pretty difficult for Obama to try and put in her in prison when she committed her crime in 2017.

streamofthesky posted...

Would've been pretty difficult for Obama to try and put in her in prison when she committed her crime in 2017.

While you're trying to act obtuse, the salient point is that the Trump administration, not Obama-Biden, was responsible for putting her in prison. Therefore Biden is infinitely more likely to pardon because he had no involvement in the original sentence, and also because it'd be a way to stick it to Trump (and the gravy would be that the pardon could be leveraged to further tarnish Trump's legacy, which should factor heavily into the Biden-Harris administration given both Biden & Harris have a personal disdain for Trump)

streamofthesky posted...

Then there's the matter that unlike Manning (covert military operations) and Snowden (classified intelligence agency programs), the information she leaked was about a foreign government's operations and should have been public knowledge in the first place since it concerned attempts to undermine our election process.
So on both the severity of the punishment and the actual crime committed, it was way out of proportion.

It's no less a national security matter. And the information Manning revealed was mostly just damaging to American reputation

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Zeus posted...

It's no less a national security matter. And the information Manning revealed was mostly just damaging to American reputation

The wikileaks releases did not redact the names of personnel involved, and directly put a lot of people in danger that weren't even involved in the alleged war crimes. Including local informants, translators, etc... Exposing them to potential retaliation and attack by terrorists.
I mostly blame Assange for that, as a "journalist" and the one to publish the leaks, he should have known to do that, and is why he's the one major figure in these leaks that deserves no sympathy.
But Manning is partly responsible for that as well.

streamofthesky posted...

Well, for starters it's the longest sentence in U.S. history for a leak...

Because everybody else flees, Snowden would get vastly longer.

streamofthesky posted...

Then there's the matter that unlike Manning (covert military operations) and Snowden (classified intelligence agency programs), the information she leaked was about a foreign government's operations and should have been public knowledge in the first place since it concerned attempts to undermine our election process.

Russians doing phishing is a much lower concern than the military doing fucky shit or the NSA invading everybody's privacy. Ultimately the machine hack could, at most, lead to the second favourite candidate winning. Your election system is already a joke, this would barely effect anything (and judging by the classic yo-yo effect, has done literally nothing so far).

streamofthesky posted...

But at least he's (mostly) a free man. She's sitting in jail. So to me, pardoning her should be higher priority.

He's been in exile for longer than her entire sentence.
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Considering he's pardoned people who broke the law for evil reasons, he may as well pardon someone who did it for noble ones.

Yeah hes literally pardoned people convicted of murdering children

Its almost like in 2016 america elected a really shitty person as president

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Jesus, I didn't know there were still so many bootlickers against pardoning Snowden. Dude is a hero for what he revealed even if the government still spies on us anyway

OhhhJa posted...

Jesus, I didn't know there were still so many bootlickers against pardoning Snowden. Dude is a hero for what he revealed even if the government still spies on us anyway

he didn't have to reveal people's identities
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Because everybody else flees, Snowden would get vastly longer.

We don't know if he would have. What matters is, he's not in prison and she is. So I would prioritize her pardon first. It's also less controversial, since we really have o idea how tied to Russia Snowden is at this point.

Russians doing phishing is a much lower concern than the military doing fucky shit or the NSA invading everybody's privacy. Ultimately the machine hack could, at most, lead to the second favourite candidate winning.

Yes...that's kind of my point... Revealing a foreign country's election interference is a far less severe infraction than revealing your country's military secrets and outing personnel and putting their lives in danger. What she did is a pretty minor crime, yet she got a very harsh sentence. Glad you agree.
As for the "impact".... We only have 2 real choices and they're polar opposite on many issues, so being cheated into the "2nd choice" winning is every bit as bad as losing a coin toss b/c the person flipping it decides to flip it over and change the result.

He's been in exile for longer than her entire sentence.

Yeah, and that's still not as bad as prison. He's free to go to the parks, date and go to clubs, spend all night gaming, etc... Living in Russia is not something I'd want, but it's still way better than being a prisoner in the U.S.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

he didn't have to reveal people's identities

I think you're mixing up Snowden w/ Assange and Manning....