Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 352: Cool Aid, Man

(+) Yeah! (+)

HashtagSEP posted...

Yes, how its being handled could be fixed once Trump is out, but that doesnt magically make it not a problem right now. They very much are fucking it up, and its not overblown to say that.

I don't actually think its a problem unless they are literally holding on to millions of vaccines. Individualized distribution was always going to be tough because our health care is decentralized and sucks.

As long as what they have is being shipped somewhere and more is being procured we aren't in complete disaster territory.

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Okay, lets ignore the 100m. The same guy telling you everything is fine and on pace told you 40m by the end of the year at the end of November and then changed it to 20m by end of year, and had to change that, too.

Why are you believing him.

The pace will not get better until they fix distribution.

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As long as its being shipped SOMEWHERE theres no problem!

okay this discussion is done

If a vaccine is just sitting somewhere because the fed said youre on your own for distribution, that is a problem.

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HashtagSEP posted...

As long as its being shipped SOMEWHERE theres no problem!

okay this discussion is done

This is actually it basically. Despite the complaining no one has demonstrated that there is actually a distribution problem. It basically has been "Vaccine rollout is in a panic because our health care system sucks".

But no one has established that there is actually major slowdown happening.

And in that twitter thread it even says the 40M number is still accurate because it was including both doses.

When there is vaccine being stuck in a warehouse not being distributed, or no vaccine being distributed for us, that is where we would have a problem.

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I just think jumping the gun and going "this is hard so this is a failure" is a stretch. There are way more problems going on than the vaccine distribution right now. Which, compared to most things with this virus, has again actually gone well so far. As I've said, the bar is low. But we are way ahead of where anyone realistically thought we'd be at this point.

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red13n posted...

When there is vaccine being stuck in a warehouse not being distributed, or no vaccine being distributed for us, that is where we would have a problem.

So you missed the headlines like Pfizer said it had millions of doses of vaccine sitting in a warehouse because the federal government hadn't told it where to send them I see

EDIT: and yes that is a real headline, not paraphrased

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That is a story from weeks ago. The EUA had just gone through. We know there was a scramble to get vaccines out. I dont think this is a surprise. Again, we got these EUA's way earlier than anyone realistically anticipated(Unless you really believe Trump).

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I mean I think the failure here is only managing to distribute like 20% of the available vaccines (which I very much doubt is constrained at all by a lack of demand for the vaccine even among eligible populations so far). The UK and Israel are doing it a lot faster, and the failure is one of planning.

But yeah, I guess the upshot is that hopefully Biden's team can unfuck it fairly quickly (though maybe not given the lack of cooperation for the transition? I know it's really bad for the DoD right now; not sure about with covid stuff).

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red13n posted...

That is a story from weeks ago. The EUA had just gone through. We know there was a scramble to get vaccines out. I dont think this is a surprise. Again, we got these EUA's way earlier than anyone realistically anticipated(Unless you really believe Trump).

Less than two weeks ago.

Stop using we got it earlier than expected! as an excuse. Just because one part went well doesnt mean you just shrug when theyre fucking up the actual distribution. Were at a pace of distributing like 20% of what we have. Thats a failure.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Were at a pace of distributing like 20% of what we have. Thats a failure.

Source on this?

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According to Bloomberg, as of the 28th, the US has been allotted 15.7m, but only 2.1m have been fully distributed/administered. You can bump that number up a bit for ready to be administered, probably, but thats still dismal.

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alotted is a lot different from having a vaccine in hand though. Does not imply they are ready for distribution.

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The thread I linked said 2.1M administered out of 11.5M distributed

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Two weeks ago Pfizer said they had millions ready to go and no instructions where to send, and that was after they already sent out 6m. So its pretty close.

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Oh, yeah, there you go. 2.1 out of 11.5.

Pretty bad.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Oh, yeah, there you go. 2.1 out of 11.5.

Pretty bad.

You said they had 20% distributed. I think you are mixing "Given" with "disrbuted" here. All 11.5M of those are distributed.

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Distributed to the states as in okay now you figure it out.

Which is what weve been saying is the problem this entire time. You seem satisfied that theyre just shipping them to the states with no planning whatsoever for how to actually get them into people.

That is silly.

Your argument is basically Mission accomplished! since theyre sitting in random warehouses in states instead of sitting at the federal level.

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Our health system sucks. It was always going to be a mess. It isn't outside expectations.

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Ah, yes. Its broken so we shouldnt be upset they didnt try to find a way to be less broken and instead did literally nothing at all.

Great argument.

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If something is broken and they know its broken shouldnt they be planning for that instead of just going no u?

Why are you okay with this?

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Because the majority of people are too stupid to change it. I mean I can not be ok with it but for the next however many years my opinion doesn't matter much.

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I never said I was ok with it. But people are treating it like the sky is falling when its going about as well as expected.

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As well as expected is really shitty, and you shouldnt be saying its overreacting to think the federal government should be doing ANYTHING to try and smooth out the process instead of literally nothing at all.

Its working as well as expected so who cares is literally the mentality that allows shit like this to be broken for so long.

Over 1000 people are dying a day.

Go tell their families its mission accomplished because its going as well as expected.

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We've known that distributing the vaccine was going to be a major logistical challenge from the start. It is absolutely a failure of the Trump Administration to not have spent the past 9 months coming up with a system better than "the states can handle it"

(And any other admin would have made that effort)

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Exactly. If you know a car explodes when it hits 50mph, you dont just do nothing and then when people start dying, go well its going as expected.

You do what you can to make sure those cars dont explode.

This isnt a problem that suddenly appeared out of nowhere.

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The Trump administration fails at everything. That they didn't attempt to completely overhaul our health care system for a vaccine shouldn't surprise anyone. It is barely news.

Again, my argument is they actually did a good job acquiring and distributing vaccines to providers. We're ahead of where anyone thought imaginable at this point not that long ago. This is one of their very limited successes.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Over 1000 people are dying a day.

Go tell their families its mission accomplished because its going as well as expected.

This is a false equivalence. None of this has to do with vaccine distribution at this time.

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Holy shit if you cant muster anything better than we knew itd suck so stop complaining that it sucks, as an argument, Im just going to block you. That is the most bullshit argument.

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If you are thinking I'm saying the Trump response to the vaccine should be of any consolation to all the dead that are almost entirely their responsibility I don't know what to tell you.

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Im saying stop defending the Trump response. Its an objective failure. If you admit yourself that it is, then why are you arguing with people as if it isnt?

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HashtagSEP posted...

Holy shit if you cant muster anything better than we knew itd suck so stop complaining that it sucks, as an argument, Im just going to block you. That is the most bullshit argument.

Ehh, I think my argument is more that the blame is misplaced. People use this to attack the Trump administration when its mostly an example of how poor the US health system really is. People love to attack Trump, I love to attack Trump, hes a horrible human being, but on vaccine distribution I'm honestly not sure better options were even available without a better health care system(Which was never going to happen here).

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I never defended the Trump response.

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Okay bye

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ok then?

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Maybe I'm crazy because usually I'm slightly on the other end of the argument because its usually people asking for something they cant have yet.

But I attribute these vaccination problems more to the US health care system as a whole than the Trump administration. The system is basically working about as well as it is intended in this case when you have a privatized decentralized health care system. I find blaming Trump for this mostly pointless and kind of distracting considering the way more fucked up shit his administration is more directly responsible for.

I am usually the one telling you that you can't have true universal health care anytime soon(Despite the fact that I am pro some form of MFA in spite of people forgetting). This is absolutely a time people should be focusing on the fact that this is a failure of the US health care industry as a whole, not the dumb orange dude in the white house that we already voted to kick out a couple months ago.

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Feeling the fuckin Bern!

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Will gladly listen to Dr Jha over red. Red glossed over the News from a week ago as well. Biden was given info a month ago and said there was no plan. Jha is frustrated that it seems there is no plan. Youd expect the administration to work on some plan because they would understand issues with our healthcare system. who could have known seriously?

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As an additional "fuck" to add, do remember that Pfizer's vaccines care about temperature a lot so it's entirely possible that some of those warehouse batches are gonna be expired by the time actual distribution hits too.


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Cannot for the life if me figure out why red has chosen this hill to die on.

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red13n posted...

But people are treating it like the sky is falling when its going about as well as expected.

these aren't mutually exclusive

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red has a lot of faith in the general principle of "throw money at it until it works."

SEP doesn't believe it's gonna work on distribution because... well, it hasn't and there's little reason to believe a biden administration will change that much. red's presumption ultimately ends up being that this belief is significantly wrong and that you'll see major changes occur that magically fixes this to be a little behind instead of a lot behind (e.g., things are more streamlined because money thrown that way).

me, i've already gone on record in here in saying that supply side will be fucked and distribution lines will be fucked. i'll fully expect to see distribution mostly catch up to supply in a few (let's go with... 4-6?) months - with notable pitfalls and failures - but both will be cases where the facts documented in November and December were put to the side in favor of claims made by companies and officials instead, aka, words over reality. basically, the sooner it's accepted that the timetable is off by at least half, the better. for what that means: instead of first responders and elderly done in March, it's June; instead of vaccines being available in June for masses, it's December.

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Just mail us the vaccine doses with instructions
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"Ah yes, the Amazon Basic of covid vaccines."

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For the record, red, I didnt actually block you, I just had to nope out of the discussion because my brain hurt

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Oh hey. From NYT:

Senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, both Georgia Republicans facing tight runoff elections in a week, announced on Tuesday that they supported increasing the size of individual stimulus checks to $2,000 from $600, joining a growing number of Republican senators and increasing pressure on the Senate to vote on the measure.

Im delighted to support the president in this $2,000, Mr. Perdue said on Fox Newss Americas Newsroom on Tuesday morning. Its the right thing to do for people in Georgia.

between Graham, Hawley, Rubio, and now these two we might get that 2k check after all.

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McConnell has gone on record saying hes only considering it as a package with the other stuff Trump wants so its not happening

Sounds like hes killing the bill that passed the House

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I had absolutely no doubt that Perdue and Loeffler would come out in support. Personally rejecting it right before the runoffs would have been as good as conceding. I don't think this helps them, but it keeps them level on this issue.

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And speak of the devil, he just objected to it on the floor.

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Dems absolutely need to jump on this. They have the video of McConnell objecting, now tie that shit straight to Perdue and Loeffler in ads.

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I saw pictures of r/Conservative absolutely losing their minds about McConnell lol.


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