Board 8 > Christmas is CANCELLED for Family cause 6 y/o spent $16,000+ on SONIC FORCES!!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

6 y/o George Johnson from Connecticut had secretly spent over 16,000 on his mom's credit card to buy UPGRADES for his favourite video game, SONIC FORCES and now Christmas is CANCELLED cause they have to PAY UP!!

In July, George used his mother, Jessica's Ipad and went on a spending spree in Apple's app-store buying up virtual "golden rings" costing 1.99 to 99.99 that unlocked new characters and levels

Now they can't afford their mortgage and are forced to cancel christmas..

Apple has refused to return the money saying they failed to turn the child proof settings on

41 y/o Jessica is a real estate agent who said her child's behaviour is like a DRUG ADDICT and called these games PREDATORY

She said "It's like my 6 y/o was doing lines of cocaine and doing bigger and bigger hits. These games are designed to be completely predatory and get kids to buy things. What grown up would spend 100 on a chest of virtual gold coins?"

When George was told what he had done, he offered to "pay you back mom"

Jessica, who works on commission said "How? I pay him $4 to clean his room. I didn't get a paycheque from March to September. My income has decreased by 80% because of this pandemic. I don't know about Christmas"

Her husband cares for their 2 kids full time and she works from home cause of covid-19 and didnt notice her ipad had been taken by her younger child.

On July 9, 2500 worth of charges appeared on her credit card from Apple that she didn't authorize because they were bundled together and didn't link to the game.

She thought it was fraud and called the bank and filed a fraud claim once it reached 16,293.10

In October her bank confirmed the charges were legit and said she had to contact Apple

Apple ran through a "buried list of all the charges" and noticed a Sonic icon that was the culprit..

But she missed the 60 day window to claim the payments back and said she didn't call within 60 days cause Chase told her it was likely fraud and that paypal and apple.com were top fraud charges

She said "Apple said 'tough'. They told me that, because i didn't call within 60 days of the charges, they can't do anything"

She got no sy mpathy even when she said they can't afford the mortgage on their house and was told she has a setting she should have known.

She says "Obviously if if had known there was a setting for that, i wouldn't have allowed my 6 y/o to run up nearly 20,000 for virtual gold rings"

She's now warning other parents about putting child proof settings on before letting kids play on Ipads and phones as she's appaled that this is even possible in these games and apple devices are not pre-set

Jessica lays the blame on Apple and not her son stating "My son didn't understand that the money was real. How could he? He's playing a cartoon game in a world taht he knows is not real. Why would the money be real to him? That would require a big cognitive leap. I may have to force this kid pay me back in 15 years when he gets his first job"

Apple, Chase and Sega did not comment on this story

Do you think they should be forced to pay back the 16K smackers?

https://i.imgur.com/xWO7WeB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wtks6BT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7I9uhuU.jpg
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Full Throttle posted...

She says "Obviously if if had known there was a setting for that, i wouldn't have allowed my 6 y/o to run up nearly 20,000 for virtual gold rings"

This excuse doesn't fly because on Apple products you actually have to turn OFF the security settings, as they're on by default.

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Bad parenting

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I don't have kids- how do you prevent something like this from happening if you're not super tech literate?


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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Bad parenting

This is what it boils down to.

I used to feel bad for people like this, but it keeps happening because parents these days don't seem to think they need to monitor their kids because they're perfect little butterflies that need to express themselves or whatever

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banananor posted...

I don't have kids- how do you prevent something like this from happening if you're not super tech literate?

theres gotta be a setting to require a password verification for purchases or something
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banananor posted...

I don't have kids- how do you prevent something like this from happening if you're not super tech literate?

Don't let a young child like that use a tablet/phone/computer unsupervised if you don't know what they're doing.

Though like I said, in the case of Apple products, you don't really have to do anything as long as you don't turn the security settings off, which she clearly did and is now acting dumb about it. By default, Apple requires a password and/or touch/face ID for purchases.

I assume most mobile devices are like this by default.

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banananor posted...

I don't have kids- how do you prevent something like this from happening if you're not super tech literate?

Buy your kid a 2DS instead of letting them use your phone

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

theres gotta be a setting to require a password verification for purchases or something

There is

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What do you mean "bad parenting?"

Like obviously it wasn't great, but not everybody knows about child security settings and would think to prepare for microtransactions in an Apple store game. A lot of people aren't that tech savvy to even think about something like this, let alone know how to prevent it.

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also I guess you should pay even a little attention? It says theres a 60 day window to dispute this stuff with apple and she just screwed up dealing with it by only going through her bank.
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Bad parenting for sure.

Who lets their kid play Sonic Forces?

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MajinZidane posted...

What do you mean "bad parenting?"

Like obviously it wasn't great, but not everybody knows about child security settings and would think to prepare for microtransactions in an Apple store game. A lot of people aren't that tech savvy to even think about something like this, let alone know how to prevent it.

The security settings are on by default, you've gotta turn them off yourself. Which means she turned off all of the security settings on her iPad and then left it lying around where the kid could grab it unsupervised.

That's bad parenting.

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MajinZidane posted...

What do you mean "bad parenting?"

Like obviously it wasn't great, but not everybody knows about child security settings and would think to prepare for microtransactions in an Apple store game. A lot of people aren't that tech savvy to even think about something like this, let alone know how to prevent it.

She was obviously tech savvy enough to save her credit card info on her iPad.

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The kid spent that much money and she didn't call for over 60 days?

This isn't bad parenting.

It is just bad adulting.

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She claims she waited over 60 days to call Apple because Chase said it was probably fraud

But uh Chase doesn't take that long to investigate fraud

And why would you not just call Apple as well, anyway

Pretty much there are a lot of places she messed up, here

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Sonic strikes again

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Bad parenting for sure.

Who lets their kid play Sonic Forces?

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Bad parenting for sure, but $16,000 is absolutely ridiculous and Apple definitely needs to refund her.

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Waluigi1 posted...

Bad parenting for sure, but $16,000 is absolutely ridiculous and Apple definitely needs to refund her.

The reason there's a 60 day limit is because that's when the money goes to the developer/publisher. It's pretty much out of Apple's hands right now. Sega'd have to initiate it.

And frankly, in this case, I don't really feel they should. There was just SO MUCH negligence, here. Like, it'd be nice of them if they did, but they should in no way feel like they have to.

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I suspect Apple and its ilk would rather make money off this than protect against it, since it keeps happening. I know they have protections, but how about just not having a way to disable the password requirement, for starts? You can't disable the PIN on your bank account.

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It shouldn't even be possible to spend that much. Developers/publishers should have a cap for reasons specifically like this.

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paperwarior posted...

I suspect Apple and its ilk would rather make money off this than protect against it, since it keeps happening. I know they have protections, but how about just not having a way to disable the password requirement, for starts? You can't disable the PIN on your bank account.

Apple regularly refunds shit like this all the time, they actually have a rather lenient system. You only hear about the super negligent cases like this. It seems kinda silly to have to completely idiot proof a device just to protect people that don't keep an eye on their kids. The fact that you have to disable it yourself should be enough, since then it's on you if you choose to.

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so far the suggested solutions seem to be

1) be super tech literate
2) don't let your kids use phones

are there any others?

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banananor posted...

1) be super tech literate

You have to be MORE tech literate to turn the security features off than to keep them on. This is a silly take.

Steps to keep security features on: None
Steps to turn security features off: Actually dig through Settings and find them. And you have to enter your password to change them.

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i didn't have a cell phone until i was maybe 14, but that was also in the 2000s. i have no context as far as when kids get phones nowadays, but all of my coworkers with children seem to give them phones at some point during elementary school

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StealThisSheen posted...

You have to be MORE tech literate to turn the security features off than to keep them on. This is a silly take.

is this true of every phone model? i didn't have to do anything special to make a microtransaction on my phone. how does one label their phone as 'for a child'

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paperwarior posted...

I suspect Apple and its ilk would rather make money off this than protect against it, since it keeps happening. I know they have protections, but how about just not having a way to disable the password requirement, for starts? You can't disable the PIN on your bank account.

I don't think they like situations like this. They give them bad press. I suspect a far bigger factor is that there are a lot of people who make intended purchases for whom having to type a password every time is an annoyance, and which might marginally discourage purchases (particularly if they forgot their password and have to go through the hassle of resetting it).

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A lot of mistakes were made here but it should be strictly illegal for games to even allow someone to spend this much.

Well, some people must see security as nothing but inconvenience. I'm sure in the case I suggested that some people would tell their kids the password, but at least then they might be somewhat more likely to understand what they're doing.

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banananor posted...

is this true of every phone model? i didn't have to do anything special to make a microtransaction on my phone. how does one label their phone as 'for a child'

Like 99% of phones require a password or some kind of bio-auth when you're using a credit card by default specifically to avoid lawsuits stemming from stuff like this. They just also allow those settings to be turned off since a lot of people don't like being hassled to put in passwords.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Like 99% of phones require a password or some kind of bio-auth when you're using a credit card by default specifically to avoid lawsuits stemming from stuff like this.

how is a child supposed to use a phone if they don't know how to log in?

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ah ok. the parent is supposed to set an account password, and not tell it to the kid- not the actual swipe/access code

it just gets weird when you can't even access 95% of games if you don't log in

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Yeah, the account password is different/more strict than the actual phone password. Most phone passwords are like 4-6 numbers. An account password is usually like "8 characters, must include a capital, a number, etc. etc."

Apps work without needing to log in to the account every time. The account login comes into play when you try to make a purchase.

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Basically, you're always logged in to the account, so you don't need the password to use apps, but then default security settings make you put in the password again whenever you make a purchase.

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And I guess I was being slightly cynical saying that even the storefront wants this to happen. But the whole concept of these game currencies is kind of founded on people spending without thinking.

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I agree there should be some kind of limit, and then anybody that wants to go over that limit needs to take some kind of step to acknowledge they wish to do so.

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That said, rereading it, it looks like this happened over multiple days:

On July 9, 2500 worth of charges appeared on her credit card from Apple that she didn't authorize because they were bundled together and didn't link to the game.

She thought it was fraud and called the bank and filed a fraud claim once it reached 16,293.10

So like apparently she saw $2500 one day and then... Didn't do anything until it reached $16k?

What

Didn't see the first $2500 and think maybe she should go see where her Apple device is?

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StealThisSheen posted...

I agree there should be some kind of limit, and then anybody that wants to go over that limit needs to take some kind of step to acknowledge they wish to do so.

Yeah, having to send in a signed form or something to spend above, say, $1000 in an app would eliminate the vast majority of these incidents.

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I say bad parenting because as a parent now we always know what our kiddo is up to. We bought him his own device, has the proper settings, and we set limits and check in on him regularly. This is only possible through neglect of some sort tbh

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How does a game like Sonic Forces have microtransactions that cost over $100?

My kids all have their own devices precisely so we can prevent in-app purchases with Ask-to-buy.

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Ashethan posted...

How does a game like Sonic Forces have microtransactions that cost over $100?

My kids all have their own devices precisely so we can prevent in-app purchases with Ask-to-buy.

The mobile "Sonic Forces" is one of those runner-esque race games that you play online against others, and you can unlock characters and buy boosts and junk, so it has an in-game currency you can buy more of, like a lot of games do now.

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StealThisSheen posted...

The mobile "Sonic Forces" is one of those runner-esque race games that you play online against others, and you can unlock characters and buy boosts and junk, so it has an in-game currency you can buy more of, like a lot of games do now.

I guess my question is:

What adult is spending $99 on Sonic Forces?

Or are there a lot of millionaires kids who just LOVE this game? I mean my wife and I are doing okay financially, but we wouldn't spend $99 on in-game currency for our kids even if our salary quadrupled overnight. And we're not completely frugal, since we literally got each of our kids their own devices. So I just don't see who legitimately buys this kind of thing, rather than what they're spending $99 on. More so WHO is buying this other than little George?

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You'd be surprised

Every game has whales that baffle logic, especially when a game has some kind of leaderboard/competitive nature.

EDIT: All it takes is a few people with disposable income that want to be #1

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banananor posted...

how is a child supposed to use a phone if they don't know how to log in?

It's almost like parents shouldn't use their phones to keep their kids distracted

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I say bad parenting because as a parent now we always know what our kiddo is up to. We bought him his own device, has the proper settings, and we set limits and check in on him regularly. This is only possible through neglect of some sort tbh

i don't think you're wrong, but you also sound more tech literate than the 50th percentile of parents, you know?

BetrayedTangy posted...

It's almost like parents shouldn't use their phones to keep their kids distracted

at what age should a child be allowed to have a phone?

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overall, this just seems like it's just a new risk you assume or have to accept when becoming a parent

if your kid gets hit by a car on the street in front of your house, sure i guess you can say it's "bad parenting" for not properly watching your child 100% of the time and not perfectly training them on how to cross a street (and inculcating the mental discipline to always remember what to do), but at the same time if we were able to make cars safer, we would

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I still think this tech literacy argument is a bad one since it takes more tech literacy to not have security settings on purchases than it does to have them, so it's a complete non sequitur.

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banananor posted...

if your kid gets hit by a car on the street in front of your house, sure i guess you can say it's "bad parenting" for not properly watching your child 100% of the time and not perfectly training them on how to cross a street (and inculcating the mental discipline to always remember what to do), but at the same time if we were able to make cars safer, we would

Like, to use this example, it'd be like if you have a young child who plays in the yard, and the house you bought came with the front yard fenced. But then you decide to pay somebody to come remove the fence, and then claim "If only I knew of a way to keep my child from running into the street!"

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Whoa what's the limit on that credit card?