Current Events > I feel justified in not getting the COVID-19 vaccine. Here are my concerns

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I won't be getting the COVID vaccine, and I feel justified after reading official documentation from the FDA, uk.gov, as well as research papers linked. I have a few questions I'm trying to put my mind at ease about.

I'm concerned that there were no animal studies, and more specifically, the challenge phase of animal studies. Typically, animals receive the vaccine, then it is challenged by receiving the real virus. This is important, because the SAR-COV-1 vaccine failed, and also coronavirus vaccines tested in cats have failed after the the challenge, resulting in deaths of the cats.

See: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2154621/ (paper on the challenges of vaccinating cats with a coronavirus vaccine, resulting in death of the cats)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7115537/

Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) has been observed in vaccinated and wild-type infections of FIP. ADE is thought to potentiate viral infection through the infection of macrophages. Viral entry into macrophages occurs when antibodies bind the virus and attach to macrophages via the Fc region of the antibody and its interaction with cell surface expressed Fc receptors [46]. Neutralizing antibodies can also be enhancing antibodies if antibody titer is low or is of the IgG class [47], [48]. Because macrophages increase with viral disease, this cell type may provide an abundant reservoir for the virus and thus expansion of the virus in the host. Some similarities between FIP and SARS exist. First, in both cases macrophages can be infected with the virus [9], [49], and in the case of SARS, the etiology of disease is contributed by infiltrating alveolar macrophages leading to pneumonitis [8]. Second, the treatment with corticosteroids and/or interferon alpha ameliorates SARS disease [50], suggesting an inflammatory, immune-mediated disease. While there has been no observation of ADE during SARS infection, it is worth noting that one coronavirus, FIPV, is capable of eliciting ADE and in the evaluation of vaccines, we may want to consider this possible outcome. However, the difficulty in testing animal models for ADE bears the caveat that if ADE is not observed; it has not proved that vaccines are safe with regard to ADE in humans. In contrast, if an animal model for ADE is developed, we may learn more about the mechanism of SARS-induced ADE, which may help form the basis for developing guidelines for safe vaccine development.

I'm concerned about an ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement). And also mid to long term effects of the vaccine. Does having the spike proteins from the vaccine put someone at risk for problems down the road for things like cancer? Does this vaccine create issues with fertility?

See the FDA's document for side effects of the they are watching for. On page 16, Vaccine enhanced disease is listed and so is pregnancy issues. There's also a large list of severe illnesses and autoimmune conditions listed.

https://www.fda.gov/media/143557/download?fbclid=IwAR2V6aqOmjD2WZ2uc3VQEUrDDEKDkpHGMAPXkYlb1U9wgZqu7AOp81DsyBE

Note that Transverse myelitis is listed, which is a spinal and neurological condition, which occurred in the Astrazenica/Oxford vaccine

We also know from UK documentation of the vaccine, that there is no data on fertility. Please see this file on page 6:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/941452/Information_for_healthcare_professionals.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1DdnB-VVphxOKrmXmi0iAOXZOTeNBfydQPA4s4_QmN4gQXID5gKrT5iQE

"Fertility - It is unknown whether COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 has an impact on fertility"

Don't you think we should know this before taking the vaccine?

Anyways, these are my concerns, looking for some answers. Any thoughts?

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Not reading your post. Get fired

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Irony posted...

Not reading your post. Get fired

"I hate critical thinking."

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Yeah some of that stuff freaks me out too, not gonna lie.

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I'm not concerned about it. By the time the vaccine will actually be available to me, the real testing phase will already be over.

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I don't the process of vetting a vaccine and making sure it's safe for humans but I know it takes a while. Them producing it so quickly is scary.

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refmon posted...

I don't the process of vetting a vaccine and making sure it's safe for humans but I know it takes a while. Them producing it so quickly is scary.

imo the bigger concern is that it's a new type of vaccine - if it were normal inactive virus injection I'd be OK with them pumping it out after half a year.

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Drug_Smoker posted...

I'm not concerned about it. By the time the vaccine will actually be available to me, the real testing phase will already be over.

kinda how I feel

were still months away from most of us being able to receive the vaccine, at best

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I see your concerns, but I'm not sure how long it'll take before everyone is able to get the vaccine. Pfizer's won't be readily available until July.
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here @BendoHendo , this pretty well summarizes the current understanding of coronavirus vaccines.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40121-020-00300-x#Sec2

search for ADE for your specific question.

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I heard it gives you a headache but taking allege solved headache.

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ehhwhatever posted...

I heard it gives you a headache but taking allege solved headache.

must be a ploy by big pharma to get you to buy more painkiller

/s

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BendoHendo posted...

"I hate critical thinking."

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"Basic liberal reaction"
Good post with valid point

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I'd chance the vaccine rather than the actual virus.

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BendoHendo posted...

"I hate critical thinking."

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Anti vaccine stances aren't worth taking seriously or respecting.

This is as far as I'll dignify the op with a response.

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Your first two concerns are old and outdated. Look at the dates. Those have been solved. Your third one is "Things the FDA are looking out for". They always are on things they are going to approve.

The fourth thing is a fairly genuine concern, and I wouldn't laugh at someone freezing their sperm/eggs at a fertility bank before getting the vaccine.

It's not stupid to proceed with caution.

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BendoHendo posted...

I'm concerned that there were no animal studies

They tested it on humans *eyeroll*

Will_VIIII posted...

Anti vaccine stances aren't worth taking seriously or respecting.

This is as far as I'll dignify the op with a response.

He's not being anti Vax tho. He posted legitimate concerns with links to information to help understand his concerns.
Nowhere did he say vaccines are bad and he's against them.

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ShotgunSilencer posted...

He's not being anti Vax tho. He posted legitimate concerns with links to information to help understand his concerns.
Nowhere did he say vaccines are bad and he's against them.

TC is reading old data about sars-cov-1 and saying that's applicable to covid-19. TC needs to go to college and get at least some college on infectious diseases to actually know if it's applicable.

ShotgunSilencer posted...

He's not being anti Vax tho. He posted legitimate concerns with links to information to help understand his concerns.
Nowhere did he say vaccines are bad and he's against them.

Exactly. I get my flu shot every year and have taken every vaccine ever as required by public education. I am not anti-vax! I am concerned and cautious about a brand new vaccine that has been studied for only several months.

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If it makes people infertile, my desire to take it will increase
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tote_all posted..

Notice which side is not posting any data.

My data is the TC's data.

Are Sars-Cov-1 and Covid-19 the same thing?

When is the TC's data dated for?

tote_all posted...

So post sars-cov-2 data that invalidates TCs concerns.

Monkmith did.

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Dude, you dont need to justify anything.

Its your body, your healthwhich you, and you alone are responsible for. Youre not responsible for anyone elses health, only yours. So if you dont want to take it, dont.

Im not, and im sure as hell not justifying why to anyone, ever. Its none of their business.

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N3xtG3nGam3r posted...

Dude, you dont need to justify anything.

Its your body, your healthwhich you, and you alone are responsible for. Youre not responsible for anyone elses health, only yours. So if you dont want to take it, dont.

Im not, and im sure as hell not justifying why to anyone, ever. Its none of their business.

Yes, I forgot contagious diseases follow the my body, my choice mantra.

tote_all posted...

You didn't even read it, did you?

You dont get to talk like this when youre comparing two different strains of virus and acting like theyre the same.
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tote_all posted...

You didn't even read it, did you?

Yes. Did you?

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tote_all posted...

Yes. Please point me which part you believe invalidates TCs concerns.

The induction of ADE using the S glycoprotein has been tackled by using truncated versions of the same protein. It is believed that the use of the receptor-binding domain (RBD) or the S1 subunit of the S glycoprotein can lead to the induction of neutralizing antibodies while avoiding ADE.

The use of adjuvants has also been considered for avoiding the potential undesired effects of coronavirus vaccination. Adjuvants are substances that potentiate and modify the immunogenicity and protection efficacy of the vaccines [125]. A group of researchers found that by using a chemical adjuvant (a delta inulin-based polysaccharide), lung immunopathology previously observed in mice after SARS challenge experiments were no longer observed [126]. It was hypothesized that the adjuvant helped to avoid an exacerbated Th2-polarized response after challenge causative of the adverse effects. This is a case where an adjuvant not only enhanced vaccine-induced protection but also helped to minimize adverse effects due to coronavirus vaccination.

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monkmith posted...

here @BendoHendo , this pretty well summarizes the current understanding of coronavirus vaccines.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40121-020-00300-x#Sec2

search for ADE for your specific question.

Interesting:

The induction of ADE using the S glycoprotein has been tackled by using truncated versions of the same protein. It is believed that the use of the receptor-binding domain (RBD) or the S1 subunit of the S glycoprotein can lead to the induction of neutralizing antibodies while avoiding ADE. The idea is to focus the induction of antibodies to relevant S regions for efficient virus neutralization and, by doing so, to avoid the induction of potential non-neutralizing antibodies targeting other regions of the S protein. Even though there seems to be little direct evidence proving this idea, vaccines based on these regions have already been tested, allowing the induction of high titers of neutralizing antibodies and a certain level of protection in small animals and non-human primates [49, 50, 56, 78].

I guess we will see if using the truncated version of the same protein helps. The paragraph states this has not been proven yet. Hopefully we will know within a couple of years of the vaccine being out. Do we know which vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer, Astrazenica) use the truncated version of the protein?

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Mr_Rian posted...

The use of adjuvants has also been considered for avoiding the potential undesired effects of coronavirus vaccination. Adjuvants are substances that potentiate and modify the immunogenicity and protection efficacy of the vaccines [125]. A group of researchers found that by using a chemical adjuvant (a delta inulin-based polysaccharide), lung immunopathology previously observed in mice after SARS challenge experiments were no longer observed [126]. It was hypothesized that the adjuvant helped to avoid an exacerbated Th2-polarized response after challenge causative of the adverse effects. This is a case where an adjuvant not only enhanced vaccine-induced protection but also helped to minimize adverse effects due to coronavirus vaccination.

Yes, so which vaccine candidates use adjuvants? Do we know?

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Hexenherz posted...

Yeah some of that stuff freaks me out too, not gonna lie.

Same

Not a popular thing to say here but I do have my concerns as well.That said, the Army would give us weird ass shots too but we didn't have a choice.

I would still get the shot because of my Dad though.

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tote_all posted...

These potential solutions haven't been proven in a clinical trial because of the missing challenge phase TC talked about... and that, in your mind, invalidates TC's concern?

Post data that potential solutions haven't been proven.

FYI Monkmith's link is from April 2020 and not everything is publicly available.

Supply constraints are severe enough that any nasty effects will be seen in "priority" persons long before we have to start worrying about the vaccine being mandatory.

tote_all posted...

That's not how... anything works.

But also, why would I have to do that?

Because you'll be an even bigger hypocrite.

tote_all posted...

Elaborate?

It's a shame I have to spell this out, you haven't post any data and people will notice.

tote_all posted...

Oh so this is an idiotic cycle you want to try to drag me into because you don't understand I'm not the one who has to post data?

I have to hear why you don't have to critically think or post data.

They were aware of ADE concerns since April. dEy PrOlLy FoRgOt.

tote_all posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Yes, I forgot contagious diseases follow the my body, my choice mantra.

When it comes to putting a rushed vaccine, that is the first of its kind, into your body, this mantra is definitely a good one to follow.

Its really sad to see people in such a state of delusion that they actually think people should be forced to do anything.

People arent even aware that just within this past month, legislation was passed that absolves any vaccine manufacturers from being held legally accountable if their vaccine kills, disfigures, injuresor causes any type of bodily harm. Unless they were confident the vaccine wouldnt have any serious negative side effects, why would they need to be protected in such a way?

That doesnt exactly boost confidence in our perception of the vaccine.

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tote_all posted...

I'm not doing that.

You literally pointed to SARS-CoV-1 and was like theres no vaccine for this one so obviously cant work with one for SARS-CoV-2 as if that means anything.

N3xtG3nGam3r posted...

When it comes to putting a rushed vaccine, that is the first of its kind, into your body, this mantra is definitely a good one to follow.

Its really sad to see people in such a state of delusion that they actually think people should be forced to do anything.

People arent even aware that just within this past month, legislation was passed that absolves any vaccine manufacturers from being held legally accountable if their vaccine kills, disfigures, injuresor causes any type of bodily harm. Unless they were confident the vaccine wouldnt have any serious negative side effects, why would they need to be protected in such a way?

That doesnt exactly boost confidence in our perception of the vaccine.

You said youre not responsible for anyones health during a pandemic of an incredibly contagious disease.

If you dont know how stupid that sounds, thats on you.
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