Board 8 > In this week's 'Nintendo wants to kill competitive Smash' news

(+) Yeah! (+)

NFUN posted...

because they play and feel differently?

I would not define any Smash game as playing and feeling all that differently from the others

maybe 64

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_stingers_ posted...

I played project M and rivals of aether extensively. all the other smash clones were poor IMO. Slap city was okay but it wasnt made to be taken seriously, so..

Neither was Smash Bros

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Tom Bombadil posted...

I would not define any Smash game as playing and feeling all that differently from the others

maybe 64

They definitely do. Melee is notoriously fast, Brawl is notoriously floaty, for example. They're not entirely distinct, obviously, but the new games aren't just the old ones updated. Everybody has preferences for which game in a series they like best. IIRC, Street Fighter 4's scene is much more vivid than 5, and I'm sure that there are still plenty of people playing 2. It's a given that two entries in the same fighting game series aren't close to one-to-one.

People have been saying that Melee players refuse to move on to the Melee clones out there, but what are they? It should be taken for granted that the other Smash games don't fit (for reasons Smash players will be able to write theses about), and I don't know anything closer than those. Like, you suggested Slap City. Have you ever played or seen it??

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What about that one game that hasn't been mentioned yet? I dunno the name...

E:Brawlout I think? Wasn't it intended to be like Melee?

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Yeah I don't even respect competitive Smash but everyone who has played any of them at a semi-serious level knows they all feel very different

That being said had Ultimate come out just after Melee I would expect most of the fanbase would have made a better attempt to move onto it, because they're not nearly as different as Melee and Brawl were. You'd still have some people who prefer the older game just as you do with any fighting game series with entries that evolve over time. Like people still play Street Fighter II Turbo to this day because it's faster but you probably have more people playing Super Street Fighter II Turbo than it despite both games being super old at this point since SSFII is the proper sequel, and you definitely have more people playing Street Fighter IV and V.

But had Street Fighter Alpha come after Street Fighter II Turbo with no proper successor for over 10-15 years, things might have been alot different.

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yea I'm sure Melee players willingly keep themselves confined to a game that requires a 20 year old system with no online capabilities to play

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I hadn't played melee since about 2007 until this weekend and it felt like molasses to me after being used to ultimate

What's going there anyway I know melee is beloved for being fast. Particularly it seemed like air dodges were 20 seconds long and lag at the end of moves felt slow

turbopuns3 posted...

I hadn't played melee since about 2007 until this weekend and it felt like molasses to me after being used to ultimate

What's going there anyway I know melee is beloved for being fast. Particularly it seemed like air dodges were 20 seconds long and lag at the end of moves felt slow

Do you know how to wavedash and L cancel?

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what about PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale

i won't name names, but someone who has posted in this topic defended that game to death lol

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wavedashing I'm aware of the concept of how to do it but am nowhere close to fluent with it

L cancel I have no clue

NFUN posted...

words

I mean ok but you're really not helping the "we would totally move on to a similar game" narrative

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I mean, lets just cut to the chase. Melee players need to move on, is just a completely asinine take, regardless whether or not similar games exist now or will exist in the future.

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Honestly if the "we would totally move on to a similar game" narrative were true the fanbase would have moved onto Ultimate. Melee and Ultimate are about as similar as most fighting game iterations that fanbases move on to. If you're not giving it a shot you kind of are stuck in the past

BUT that's not necessarily strange or unreasonable to be stuck in the past. Thing is I forgive the Smash fanbase because Melee and Brawl are definitely much more different, and there was a huge amount of time between Melee and Ultimate (or even Melee and Smash Bros Wii U). The situation isn't completely unique among fighters. A somewhat similar thing happened with Marvel 2 vs Marvel 3 when there was like 10 years between the games and some pretty significant differences between the two. But not so much with Marvel 1 vs Marvel 2 even though I'd argue those two were even further removed from one another, because there were only like two years between the releases..

Thing is if there was another 5 years between Marvel 2 and 3, and there was a game that left a bad taste in the mouth of the people in the meantime-- like say Marvel Infinite was released between Marvel 2 and 3? The rift would be more pronounced, probably similar to the one between Melee and everything else. Melee just gets a bad rap because it's really loud about it. Other fighting game franchises people are sort of just like "oh you prefer to keep playing Marvel 2 that's cool"

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<a onclick="return show_quoted_message(8, 79155821, 948031002, 'a7741058');" href="/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/79155821/948031002">Tom Bombadil posted... </a>

I mean ok but you're really not helping the "we would totally move on to a similar game" narrative

the conversation started by tomnook saying that melee players wouldn't move onto a rereleashed melee with actual online that's essentially identical because they'd object to some minute difference, and then people responded that they would move onto a different game that played like melee, to which others insisted that they didn't move to the melee clones that exist

i asked what melee clones exist. your suggestions were not relevant. i dont even care about melee and i can tell you that the ones you listed really dont play like it. sometimes i want to play brawl. sometimes i want to play ultimate. sometimes i want to play melee. my preference changes with my mood because the games are definitely different

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Ultimate does come close enough to playing like Melee (while not getting the time of day from a lot of melee players) that I think the objecting to some minute difference thing is very likely though. Unless we're talking about some hypothetical port that Nintendo would never make.

I mean not that Nintendo would make a melee port with online, but assuming it did I guarantee we'd be looking at more of a Super Street Fighter 2 HD Remix type port, not a one to one conversion with online thrown on top of it. And the latter might be the only thing melee fans truly accept at this point.

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I don't get people's obsession wanting Melee players to move on. If it's their favorite game why would they? There's nothing inherently wrong with sticking with the thing you like the most.

Arguments about personality of the players (and BO) is one thing. Getting salty that a group of people aren't beholden to the most recent shiny thing is straight-up weird. I say this as someone who hasn't played Melee in over a decade and usually doesn't stick with game for very long before moving on.

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Waluigi1 posted...

I prefer Brawl Minus. I thrive in the chaos.

I actually had never heard of Brawl Minus so I looked it up. I would not like that either.

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KamikazePotato posted...

I don't get people's obsession wanting Melee players to move on. If it's their favorite game why would they? There's nothing inherently wrong with sticking with the thing you like the most.

It's largely just used as an excuse. Keep in mind we are on GameFAQs. SSBM is actually several years younger than the most popular games on this site. A 2001 release doesn't qualify as old here to begin with.
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KamikazePotato posted...

I don't get people's obsession wanting Melee players to move on. If it's their favorite game why would they? There's nothing inherently wrong with sticking with the thing you like the most.

Absolutely there's nothing wrong with sticking with your favorite. I have series that I do this with myself. If they want to keep playing Melee they can. All I ask is that you stop trashing anything in the series that isn't Melee.

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Team Rocket Elite posted...

It's largely just used as an excuse. Keep in mind we are on GameFAQs. SSBM is actually several years younger than the most popular games on this site. A 2001 release doesn't qualify as old here to begin with.

That's because y'all are boomers

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The Utility Man posted...

Absolutely there's nothing wrong with sticking with your favorite. I have series that I do this with myself. If they want to keep playing Melee they can. All I ask is that you stop trashing anything in the series that isn't Melee.

This is pretty much the difference yeah. I've already named other older installments and fanbases from fighting game franchises where this doesn't really happen.

Now I mean Smash is a weird franchise in terms of how the release progression and differences went, so it makes at least a little sense beyond "these guys are elitist jerks" as to why this would happen. But really the rest of my interest in this topic is just to address things that I don't think are correct. Like if you say "they all play the same" I wouldn't agree because I mean, I'm just a guy who likes fighting games and never really got into Smash but can feel the differences almost immediately between any two aside from Smash Wii-U and Smash Ultimate.

But on the other hand if you say "melee fans would happily accept any alternative that plays like melee if it would just come" I wouldn't exactly agree either because well, justified or not, they don't act the same as other fighting game fanbases (and again, Smash Melee vs Smash Ultimate is pretty much standard fighting game sequel level or less in terms of differences, and you just don't see that level of resistance in any other fighting game fandoms for new entries) and that behavior isn't just going to go away. You're dealing with a group of people who have been playing a game for 20 years now. It's not like asking Ultra Street Fighter IV players to play Street Fighter V-- it's like asking those purists still on Street Fighter 2 Turbo to play Street Fighter V. I guarantee you they aren't gonna be super interested in it-- the only real difference is there are a lot more melee players than SF2 Turbo players, and there are a lot more entries skipped for the SF2 Turbo players, but in terms of time spent with the game it's similar.

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Lopen posted...

can feel the differences almost immediately between any two aside from Smash Wii-U and Smash Ultimate.

Wat. I can feel the difference between these two immediately <_<

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Admittedly maybe I could too if I played Wii-U more than a few hours. Gut reaction on playing Ultimate was that was the closest to it though. 64, Brawl, Melee, and Ultimate are all immediately different just on first playing them.

BUT I'd say of those remaining 4 Melee and Ultimate are actually the most similar feeling.

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As someone who has spent somewhere in the tens of thousands of hours on smash in their life, wii u and Ultimate are definitely the closest in feel, and it's not really close. With that said though I think most people but the real casuals would still feel a difference, but I don't think it's crazy to feel how Lopen does at all

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Well I think if I played Wii-U again now after having logged like 50-100 hours on Ultimate it'd probably be easier to distinguish

Playing Ultimate after not having played Wii-U all that much though just had me like "oh it's like Wii-U again cool"

But on the other hand I feel like I'd played Brawl only a few hours I wouldn't say "oh it's like Brawl again cool" about any of the other games when I first played them.

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Breaking Information about Melee

https://twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1336114367612510210?s=20

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Everyone take back what you said about Sonic.

https://twitter.com/dankowshankow/status/1336187603046064130?s=20

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my gf told me there was gonna be a bar hosting a smash bros tourney sometime in december and I got excited, then she said it was Brawl

of all the options available why did they pick brawl? I didn't even care enough about that game to get good with Meta Knight

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Because all they have are Wiis

Its not the first time I've seen something like that

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Everyone take back what you said about Sonic.

Well in Sonic's case, the fans had to create their own games due to Sega's lack of making good new ones.

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pjbasis posted...

Because all they have are Wiis

Its not the first time I've seen something like that

They could at least do Melee then.

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So in response to all this Nintendo nonsense, Ludwig, a popular Twitch streamer and kind of well known Melee fan/commentator in the scene has decided to host his own tournament with a prize pool. He's done a few in the past but he's been pushing hard to crowdsource donations and it's already going to end up being one of the most lucrative Melee tournaments of all-time with $80k in prize money so far.

He's also essentially begging for a C&D with his marketing and continuous calling out of Nintendo, and is essentially saying that for every C&D he's just going to hold another tournament in it's place, so it should be interesting how this turns out.

https://clips.twitch.tv/FunnyPiliablePonyFeelsBadMan


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davidponte posted...

He's also essentially begging for a C&D with his marketing and continuous calling out of Nintendo, and is essentially saying that for every C&D he's just going to hold another tournament in it's place,

Thats a good way to get sued. Any C&D would be worded in such a way that any replacement tournament run by the same person would be in defiance of that order. Also, cease and desist orders are a courtesy that is not required before a lawsuit, so if he were to keep doing that they would just skip the C&D entirely.

All that said, any interference from Nintendo is unlikely, unless he keeps goading them intentionally. I suspect any random Slippi tournament would be totally fine as long as theyre not events directly sponsored by Nintendo

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WazzupGenius00 posted...

Thats a good way to get sued. Any C&D would be worded in such a way that any replacement tournament run by the same person would be in defiance of that order. Also, cease and desist orders are a courtesy that is not required before a lawsuit, so if he were to keep doing that they would just skip the C&D entirely.

All that said, any interference from Nintendo is unlikely, unless he keeps goading them intentionally. I suspect any random Slippi tournament would be totally fine as long as theyre not events directly sponsored by Nintendo

If that were true they could have just not sponsored the tournament they shut down.

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Waluigi1 posted...

They could at least do Melee then.

They might not have gamecube controllers either!

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lol melee

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WazzupGenius00 posted...

Thats a good way to get sued. Any C&D would be worded in such a way that any replacement tournament run by the same person would be in defiance of that order. Also, cease and desist orders are a courtesy that is not required before a lawsuit, so if he were to keep doing that they would just skip the C&D entirely.

Pretty much, C&D letters exist as a way to save money from a potentially costly trial. The threat of getting sued usually gets people to back down, especially if they know they are in the legal wrong.

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pjbasis posted...

They might not have gamecube controllers either!

Next you're gonna tell me the only controllers they have for Brawl are Wiimote and Nunchuk.

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ExThaNemesis posted...

Nintendo put out a C/D on a custom joycon design that was being sold to help fund suicide prevention. The design was made after Etika, a huge streamer and a bigger Nintendo fan killed himself.

All of you "Fair, next" idiots are supporting shit like this by not looking at the bigger picture.

It only looks bad on surface to make Nintendo look bad, but there's more to it:

https://twitter.com/Clowfoe/status/1336727008777302016

It turns out the group that was making those only donated a small portion to charity (or so they even claimed), and didn't even give any thing to Etika's family. They were mostly profiting off of his name, which is just terrible and disrespectful.

So Nintendo actually put a stop to a scummy practice.

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WhiteLens posted...

It only looks bad on surface to make Nintendo look bad, but there's more to it:

https://twitter.com/Clowfoe/status/1336727008777302016

It turns out the group that was making those only donated a small portion to charity (or so they even claimed), and didn't even give any thing to Etika's family. They were mostly profiting off of his name, which is just terrible and disrespectful.

So Nintendo actually put a stop to a scummy practice.

I'm pretty sure they were completely unaware of how the funds were being spent.

Like it's good it's being shut down, but let's not pretend noble Nintendo sought out to end a scummy fundraiser effort when they were just like "Yo don't use the name of our fucking devices on your skins."

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The guy making those joycons admitted he was intentionally trying to piss Nintendo off since he was mad they wouldnt license his custom controllers

He did it to get sales for his other stuff

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https://giphy.com/gifs/FO3Tu2mfTGljTa0CWK
Really movin today

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paperwarior posted...

Next you're gonna tell me the only controllers they have for Brawl are Wiimote and Nunchuk.

You'd be lucky to get a Nunchuck to go with your Wiimote.

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yeah turns out that Etikons guy is a grifter and was using Etikas name without his familys permission

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