Board 8 > Elliot Page

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
MarkS222222222222222 12/02/20 2:21:11 AM #101:	CasanovaZelos posted... At least you're outright admitting you just want to misgender people so we can stop this "but what about English" nonsense No that was part of a judgement free thought experiment requested by Dels. Is it misgendering people if we use the word to refer to one's perceived sex and not their gender? --- This is quite a username I have here. <cite>MarkS222222222222222 posted [p:947827755] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>CasanovaZelos posted... </cite> <quote>At least you're outright admitting you just want to misgender people so we can stop this "but what about English" nonsense</quote>No that was part of a judgement free thought experiment requested by Dels. Is it misgendering people if we use the word to refer to one's perceived sex and not their gender? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kenri 12/02/20 2:22:28 AM #102:	LordoftheMorons posted... An example where singular they actually creates ambiguity: "After Alice met Julia, they caught fish." Though for this I had to go out of my way to find a verb (caught) that's the same as a singular or plural verb. Worth noting that "she" is also ambiguous in this same sentence. English pronouns are just not very good at being unambiguous. --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. <cite>Kenri posted [p:947827770] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>LordoftheMorons posted... </cite> <quote>An example where singular they actually creates ambiguity: "After Alice met Julia, they caught fish." Though for this I had to go out of my way to find a verb (caught) that's the same as a singular or plural verb.</quote>Worth noting that "she" is also ambiguous in this same sentence. English pronouns are just not very good at being unambiguous. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dels 12/02/20 2:25:47 AM #103:	CasanovaZelos posted... At least you're outright admitting you just want to misgender people so we can stop this "but what about English" nonsense I don't think that is what Mark was saying. I think he was saying that, in this current world where we've decided the "solution" is to use pronouns according to a person's self-identified gender, because it would offend them not to, he would never misgender anyone, but in his ideal world, a different solution would be reached where pronouns are not used for gender, but for sex, and people would not be offended. For what it's worth, I think that world would only be possible if we completely abolished gender norms, so that people wouldn't feel the pronoun "he" or "she" was making any sort of judgment about who they are, or their gender. <cite>Dels posted [p:947827831] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>CasanovaZelos posted... </cite> <quote>At least you're outright admitting you just want to misgender people so we can stop this "but what about English" nonsense</quote> I don't think that is what Mark was saying. I think he was saying that, in this current world where we've decided the "solution" is to use pronouns according to a person's self-identified gender, because it would offend them not to, he would never misgender anyone, but in his ideal world, a different solution would be reached where pronouns are not used for gender, but for sex, and people would not be offended. For what it's worth, I think that world would only be possible if we completely abolished gender norms, so that people wouldn't feel the pronoun "he" or "she" was making any sort of judgment about who they are, or their gender. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MarkS222222222222222 12/02/20 2:28:55 AM #104:	Dels posted... I think that world would only be possible if we completely abolished gender norms, so that people wouldn't feel the pronoun "he" or "she" was making any sort of judgment about who they are, or their gender. Which would be even more ideal. See guys? This is why I need to be looped when these kinds of decisions are made --- This is quite a username I have here. <cite>MarkS222222222222222 posted [p:947827889] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Dels posted... </cite> <quote>I think that world would only be possible if we completely abolished gender norms, so that people wouldn't feel the pronoun "he" or "she" was making any sort of judgment about who they are, or their gender.</quote>Which would be even more ideal. See guys? This is why I need to be looped when these kinds of decisions are made </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CasanovaZelos 12/02/20 2:34:30 AM #106:	MarkS222222222222222 posted... No that was part of a judgement free thought experiment requested by Dels. Is it misgendering people if we use the word to refer to ones perceived sex and not their gender? If they have asked you to use one term and you use another, yes. And as has been pointed out, knowing someone's sex is not surface-level obvious. You have likely encountered transgender people without realizing it. I have an online friend who I thought was this super cis-straight dude before I learned he was a trans man. Pop culture focuses so much on the newly out and those that don't "pass" that we seem to forget there are several who have successfully and fully transitioned who don't stick out in a crowd (not to mention cisgender women who get attacked for appearing too masculine, etc.). Simply put, you don't know someone's sex by sight (even if you think you do), and we have always emphasized gender as a society. --- My top 100 games (with write-ups): https://foolfantastic.com/top-100-video-games-project/ <cite>CasanovaZelos posted [p:947828019] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>MarkS222222222222222 posted... </cite> <quote>No that was part of a judgement free thought experiment requested by Dels. Is it misgendering people if we use the word to refer to ones perceived sex and not their gender?</quote> If they have asked you to use one term and you use another, yes. And as has been pointed out, knowing someone's sex is not surface-level obvious. You have likely encountered transgender people without realizing it. I have an online friend who I thought was this super cis-straight dude before I learned he was a trans man. Pop culture focuses so much on the newly out and those that don't "pass" that we seem to forget there are several who have successfully and fully transitioned who don't stick out in a crowd (not to mention cisgender women who get attacked for appearing too masculine, etc.). Simply put, you don't know someone's sex by sight (even if you think you do), and we have always emphasized gender as a society. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CasanovaZelos 12/02/20 2:44:13 AM #107:	MarkS222222222222222 posted... Which would be even more ideal. See guys? This is why I need to be looped when these kinds of decisions are made I think that's where it comes from, at least for me (this is an issue where transgender and genderqueer people likely diverge) - I wouldn't need to identify as genderqueer if a human male was allowed to behave and present the way I do. But because society has decided a man can't do these things, I have never been able to think of myself as masculine. I have to insist on my queerness because certain people will otherwise insist I must drop those behaviors to appear more masculine, because gender is treated as a way of life that must be enforced. By announcing myself as genderqueer, I am rejecting this notion when applied to myself because I can't stand appeals to my nonexistent sense of masculinity. --- My top 100 games (with write-ups): https://foolfantastic.com/top-100-video-games-project/ <cite>CasanovaZelos posted [p:947828195] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>MarkS222222222222222 posted... </cite> <quote>Which would be even more ideal. See guys? This is why I need to be looped when these kinds of decisions are made</quote> I think that's where it comes from, at least for me (this is an issue where transgender and genderqueer people likely diverge) - I wouldn't need to identify as genderqueer if a human male was allowed to behave and present the way I do. But because society has decided a man can't do these things, I have never been able to think of myself as masculine. I have to insist on my queerness because certain people will otherwise insist I must drop those behaviors to appear more masculine, because gender is treated as a way of life that must be enforced. By announcing myself as genderqueer, I am rejecting this notion when applied to myself because I can't stand appeals to my nonexistent sense of masculinity. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Grimlyn 12/02/20 2:47:11 AM #108:	i greatly question exactly why anyone's ideal would be to address others by their sex like your defense is that you were given a thought experiment to come up with anything (or nothing) you want and your choice by sex? why? --- http://gmun.moe/ffcc GuessMyUserName's account's very own account! <cite>Grimlyn posted [p:947828238] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>i greatly question exactly why anyone's ideal would be to address others by their sex like your defense is that you were given a thought experiment to come up with anything (or nothing) you want and your choice by sex? why? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dels 12/02/20 3:01:46 AM #109:	CasanovaZelos posted... I think that's where it comes from, at least for me (this is an issue where transgender and genderqueer people likely diverge) - I wouldn't need to identify as genderqueer if a human male was allowed to behave and present the way I do. But because society has decided a man can't do these things, I have never been able to think of myself as masculine. I have to insist on my queerness because certain people will otherwise insist I must drop those behaviors to appear more masculine, because gender is treated as a way of life that must be enforced. By announcing myself as genderqueer, I am rejecting this notion when applied to myself because I can't stand appeals to my nonexistent sense of masculinity. Yes, this is roughly the concept I was referring to in the hypothetical world I mentioned. Thank you for this explanation, it's helped solidify some ideas I'd been exploring in previous discussions about the topic. <cite>Dels posted [p:947828508] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>CasanovaZelos posted... </cite> <quote>I think that's where it comes from, at least for me (this is an issue where transgender and genderqueer people likely diverge) - I wouldn't need to identify as genderqueer if a human male was allowed to behave and present the way I do. But because society has decided a man can't do these things, I have never been able to think of myself as masculine. I have to insist on my queerness because certain people will otherwise insist I must drop those behaviors to appear more masculine, because gender is treated as a way of life that must be enforced. By announcing myself as genderqueer, I am rejecting this notion when applied to myself because I can't stand appeals to my nonexistent sense of masculinity.</quote> Yes, this is roughly the concept I was referring to in the hypothetical world I mentioned. Thank you for this explanation, it's helped solidify some ideas I'd been exploring in previous discussions about the topic. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nanis23 12/02/20 3:54:48 AM #110:	Singular "They" is dumb, and it has nothing to do with my opinions about transgenders Make another word if you want If you have a singular "they" then there has to be a plural "they" If you have two people that want to be addressed as "they", how do you refer to the both of them at the same time? theythey? theyeyeyeye? --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:947829295] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Singular "They" is dumb, and it has nothing to do with my opinions about transgenders Make another word if you want If you have a singular "they" then there has to be a plural "they" If you have two people that want to be addressed as "they", how do you refer to the both of them at the same time? theythey? theyeyeyeye? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MarkS222222222222222 12/02/20 3:58:54 AM #111:	Grimlyn posted... like your defense is that you were given a thought experiment to come up with anything (or nothing) you want and you choose sex? why? Dels seems to get it CasanovaZelos posted... Simply put, you don't know someone's sex by sight (even if you think you do) Yeah, but you don't know someone's gender by sight either, so we're not losing anything there under my plan. CasanovaZelos posted... I think that's where it comes from, at least for me (this is an issue where transgender and genderqueer people likely diverge) - I wouldn't need to identify as genderqueer if a human male was allowed to behave and present the way I do. But because society has decided a man can't do these things, I have never been able to think of myself as masculine. I have to insist on my queerness because certain people will otherwise insist I must drop those behaviors to appear more masculine, because gender is treated as a way of life that must be enforced. By announcing myself as genderqueer, I am rejecting this notion when applied to myself because I can't stand appeals to my nonexistent sense of masculinity. I really appreciate this. I don't have personal experience clearly, but I've suspected this to be the crux of the issue for many. I've really only had one open conversation about this with someone who identified as another gender, and I probably didn't know them well enough to have it, but I asked something like "does it feel wrong to identify as just [in this case] a masculine woman who is into masculine things?" and their response was something along the lines of "I would love to be just that, but society doesn't let me". Now, my first thought is to say "well ** em, be you", but I understand I'm saying that from a privileged standpoint (and that many other individuals feel a stronger dysmorphia to which this would not be applicable). I think gender norms form naturally in society, just like any other kind of social norms. But believing other people need to be held to those norms for the sake of the norms alone is garbage society. Except for my insistence that we should not use "they". That parts good. --- This is quite a username I have here. <cite>MarkS222222222222222 posted [p:947829341] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Grimlyn posted... </cite> <quote>like your defense is that you were given a thought experiment to come up with anything (or nothing) you want and you choose sex? why?</quote>Dels seems to get it CasanovaZelos posted... </cite> <quote>Simply put, you don't know someone's sex by sight (even if you think you do)</quote>Yeah, but you don't know someone's gender by sight either, so we're not losing anything there under my plan. CasanovaZelos posted... </cite> <quote>I think that's where it comes from, at least for me (this is an issue where transgender and genderqueer people likely diverge) - I wouldn't need to identify as genderqueer if a human male was allowed to behave and present the way I do. But because society has decided a man can't do these things, I have never been able to think of myself as masculine. I have to insist on my queerness because certain people will otherwise insist I must drop those behaviors to appear more masculine, because gender is treated as a way of life that must be enforced. By announcing myself as genderqueer, I am rejecting this notion when applied to myself because I can't stand appeals to my nonexistent sense of masculinity.</quote>I really appreciate this. I don't have personal experience clearly, but I've suspected this to be the crux of the issue for many. I've really only had one open conversation about this with someone who identified as another gender, and I probably didn't know them well enough to have it, but I asked something like "does it feel wrong to identify as just [in this case] a masculine woman who is into masculine things?" and their response was something along the lines of "I would love to be just that, but society doesn't let me". Now, my first thought is to say "well ** em, be you", but I understand I'm saying that from a privileged standpoint (and that many other individuals feel a stronger dysmorphia to which this would not be applicable). I think gender norms form naturally in society, just like any other kind of social norms. But believing other people need to be held to those norms for the sake of the norms alone is garbage society. Except for my insistence that we should not use "they". That parts good. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 12/02/20 4:01:43 AM #112:	Nanis23 posted... Make another word if you want Do not even try to pretend like you would actually be okay with this if we did. I know you wouldn't. <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:947829377] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Nanis23 posted... </cite> <quote>Make another word if you want</quote> Do not even try to pretend like you would actually be okay with this if we did. I know you wouldn't. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MoogleKupo141 12/02/20 4:08:05 AM #113:	Nanis23 posted... If you have a singular "they" then there has to be a plural "they" If you have two people that want to be addressed as "they", how do you refer to the both of them at the same time? theythey? theyeyeyeye? how do you refer to two males at the same time? its not hehe, why would this situation be theythey? --- For your Azuarc* .* At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza <cite>MoogleKupo141 posted [p:947829431] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Nanis23 posted...</cite> <quote> If you have a singular "they" then there has to be a plural "they" If you have two people that want to be addressed as "they", how do you refer to the both of them at the same time? theythey? theyeyeyeye? </quote> how do you refer to two males at the same time? its not hehe, why would this situation be theythey?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nanis23 12/02/20 4:11:30 AM #114:	Paratroopa1 posted... Do not even try to pretend like you would actually be okay with this if we did. I know you wouldn't. Don't you already have xe and ze? --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:947829467] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Paratroopa1 posted... </cite> <quote>Do not even try to pretend like you would actually be okay with this if we did. I know you wouldn't.</quote>Don't you already have xe and ze? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nanis23 12/02/20 4:12:28 AM #115:	MoogleKupo141 posted... how do you refer to two males at the same time? its not hehe, why would this situation be theythey? Because you call them "they\them" You can't refer to two singular "they" as "they" --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:947829477] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>MoogleKupo141 posted... </cite> <quote>how do you refer to two males at the same time? its not hehe, why would this situation be theythey?</quote>Because you call them "they\them" You can't refer to two singular "they" as "they" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MarkS222222222222222 12/02/20 4:12:47 AM #116:	Nanis23 posted... Don't you already have xe and ze? No, quit it. They is better than xe or ze. You're going to make it worse. See my new path forward on page 2 --- This is quite a username I have here. <cite>MarkS222222222222222 posted [p:947829480] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Nanis23 posted... </cite> <quote>Don't you already have xe and ze?</quote>No, quit it. They is better than xe or ze. You're going to make it worse. See my new path forward on page 2 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 12/02/20 4:14:34 AM #117:	Nanis23 posted... Don't you already have xe and ze? I don't know, do we? Would you call me xe/xer if I asked? <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:947829501] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Nanis23 posted... </cite> <quote>Don't you already have xe and ze?</quote>I don't know, do we? Would you call me xe/xer if I asked? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 12/02/20 4:20:06 AM #118:	Nanis23 posted... Because you call them "they\them" You can't refer to two singular "they" as "they" Yes you can, easily. If it seems confusing, welcome to English. My native tongue, English, is a crap language. But let me tell you about Turkish, which doesnt even have gendered pronouns at all, everybody is o. A far better solution. --- I just decided to change this sig. Blaaaaaaargh azuarc <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:947829551] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Nanis23 posted... </cite> <quote>Because you call them "they\them" You can't refer to two singular "they" as "they"</quote> Yes you can, easily. If it seems confusing, welcome to English. My native tongue, English, is a crap language. But let me tell you about Turkish, which doesnt even have gendered pronouns at all, everybody is o. A far better solution. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 12/02/20 4:21:22 AM #119:	I can't tell if Nanis asked me if I have xe and ze, or if everyone has xe and ze. oh well, welcome to english <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:947829558] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>I can't tell if Nanis asked me if I have xe and ze, or if everyone has xe and ze. oh well, welcome to english </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 12/02/20 4:33:29 AM #120:	Terrible language. But seriously, its interesting that this particular issue simply does not exist for speakers of certain other languages. It just shows how language shapes our culture and can make change harder. --- I just decided to change this sig. Blaaaaaaargh azuarc <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:947829693] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Terrible language. But seriously, its interesting that this particular issue simply does not exist for speakers of certain other languages. It just shows how language shapes our culture and can make change harder. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nanis23 12/02/20 4:35:27 AM #121:	Lightning Strikes posted... Yes you can, easily. If it seems confusing, welcome to English. My native tongue, English, is a crap language. But let me tell you about Turkish, which doesnt even have gendered pronouns at all, everybody is o. A far better solution. "They" exists in Hebrew as well, so I am well aware of how dumb it is to make it refer to singular "It" should be the correct word but it's probably "insulting" because it also refers to creatures, monsters, objects so I assume people don't want this word to refer to them Oh and trust me I wish we didn't have gender pronouns to begin with. And it has nothing to do with transgenders, I say this because how annoying it is in Hebrew In Hebrew, a chair is a "he" and a shirt is a "she" This is fucking dumb. Objects don't have genders. --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:947829715] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Lightning Strikes posted... </cite> <quote>Yes you can, easily. If it seems confusing, welcome to English. My native tongue, English, is a crap language. But let me tell you about Turkish, which doesnt even have gendered pronouns at all, everybody is o. A far better solution.</quote>"They" exists in Hebrew as well, so I am well aware of how dumb it is to make it refer to singular "It" should be the correct word but it's probably "insulting" because it also refers to creatures, monsters, objects so I assume people don't want this word to refer to them Oh and trust me I wish we didn't have gender pronouns to begin with. And it has nothing to do with transgenders, I say this because how annoying it is in Hebrew In Hebrew, a chair is a "he" and a shirt is a "she" This is fucking dumb. Objects don't have genders. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GuessMyUserName 12/02/20 5:09:39 AM #122:	Paratroopa1 posted... I can't tell if Nanis asked me if I have xe and ze, or if everyone has xe and ze. oh well, welcome to english in the last thread where he brought up his opinions on trans issues entirely unrelated he actually said you have to be physically attacking trans people to be considered transphobic (among other garbage about misgendering and free speech) soooo yeah --- I request affiliated many pipes. Been a bad girl, I know I am. And I'm so hot, I need a fan. I don't want a boy, I need a man. <cite>GuessMyUserName posted [p:947830159] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Paratroopa1 posted... </cite> <quote>I can't tell if Nanis asked me if I have xe and ze, or if everyone has xe and ze. oh well, welcome to english</quote>in the last thread where he brought up his opinions on trans issues entirely unrelated he actually said you have to be physically attacking trans people to be considered transphobic (among other garbage about misgendering and free speech) soooo yeah </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 12/02/20 5:22:39 AM #123:	GuessMyUserName posted... in the last thread where he brought up his opinions on trans issues entirely unrelated he actually said you have to be physically attacking trans people to be considered transphobic (among other garbage about misgendering and free speech) soooo yeah It was a joke about how the word "you" is vague - it could refer to me, or us <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:947830286] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>GuessMyUserName posted... </cite> <quote>in the last thread where he brought up his opinions on trans issues entirely unrelated he actually said you have to be physically attacking trans people to be considered transphobic (among other garbage about misgendering and free speech) soooo yeah</quote>It was a joke about how the word "you" is vague - it could refer to me, or us </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MoogleKupo141 12/02/20 5:38:25 AM #124:	Nanis23 posted... "They" exists in Hebrew as well, so I am well aware of how dumb it is to make it refer to singular "It" should be the correct word but it's probably "insulting" because it also refers to creatures, monsters, objects so I assume people don't want this word to refer to them Oh and trust me I wish we didn't have gender pronouns to begin with. And it has nothing to do with transgenders, I say this because how annoying it is in Hebrew In Hebrew, a chair is a "he" and a shirt is a "she" This is fucking dumb. Objects don't have genders. yeah the whole gendered object thing is weirdly common in languages, im glad English didnt include that. --- For your Azuarc* .* At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza <cite>MoogleKupo141 posted [p:947830446] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Nanis23 posted...</cite> <quote> "They" exists in Hebrew as well, so I am well aware of how dumb it is to make it refer to singular "It" should be the correct word but it's probably "insulting" because it also refers to creatures, monsters, objects so I assume people don't want this word to refer to them Oh and trust me I wish we didn't have gender pronouns to begin with. And it has nothing to do with transgenders, I say this because how annoying it is in Hebrew In Hebrew, a chair is a "he" and a shirt is a "she" This is fucking dumb. Objects don't have genders. </quote> yeah the whole gendered object thing is weirdly common in languages, im glad English didnt include that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nanis23 12/02/20 6:23:20 AM #125:	Paratroopa1 posted... GuessMyUserName posted... in the last thread where he brought up his opinions on trans issues entirely unrelated he actually said you have to be physically attacking trans people to be considered transphobic (among other garbage about misgendering and free speech) soooo yeah Well gmun ignored me so I didn't see this I didn't say "physically attack" "verbal attack" is also transphobic Any kind of attack is transphobic Anything else that is not coming from "hate" towards trans people is not transphobic Let's ignore for a moment that the word "phobe" is about fear, and just look at what it means now - fear, hate or disgust If you don't have any of them, you are not a transphobic I don't hate you, fear you or disgusted by you. I am not a transphob in any way Thanks --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:947830956] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Paratroopa1 posted... </cite> <quote>GuessMyUserName posted... in the last thread where he brought up his opinions on trans issues entirely unrelated he actually said you have to be physically attacking trans people to be considered transphobic (among other garbage about misgendering and free speech) soooo yeah</quote>Well gmun ignored me so I didn't see this I didn't say "physically attack" "verbal attack" is also transphobic Any kind of attack is transphobic Anything else that is not coming from "hate" towards trans people is not transphobic Let's ignore for a moment that the word "phobe" is about fear, and just look at what it means now - fear, hate or disgust If you don't have any of them, you are not a transphobic I don't hate you, fear you or disgusted by you. I am not a transphob in any way Thanks </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GildedFool 12/02/20 6:37:42 AM #127:	UltimaterializerX posted... Things look ubiquitous in an echo chamber, my friend. They is not something a majority of people think is normal speech. And 25 years ago, only nerds called the world wide web the internet, remind me not to give a shit. Language evolves, it is clearly evolving towards a singular they. --- https://i.imgtc.com/tP0gkiQ.png <cite>GildedFool posted [p:947831131] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>UltimaterializerX posted... </cite> <quote>Things look ubiquitous in an echo chamber, my friend. They is not something a majority of people think is normal speech.</quote>And 25 years ago, only nerds called the world wide web the internet, remind me not to give a shit. Language evolves, it is clearly evolving towards a singular they. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte 12/02/20 6:39:44 AM #128:	It's always crazy to me that people stan a language enough to want to uphold some sort of historical definition of any specific word as if that matters at all. It's even more hilarious when we have seen languages evolve over time and words given different meanings over the last how many hundreds/thousands of years that any given language has existed for. I guess it was okay for things to change then but not now, right? I encounter so many of these people on the internet, and I commend all of you for trying to reason and have this conversation about it in the year 2020. Maybe if this was 2015 I could understand if someone wanted to claim ignorance or 'want my mind changed', but there's no way that this is someone's first exposure to this at this point. If after years someone is still trying to make the same argument then maybe they don't actually want their mind changed. The spoiler is that they don't actually care about upholding the sanctity of the language or whatever nonsense they try to mask it as. --- I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history, but azuarc was our Guru Champion! <cite>davidponte posted [p:947831151] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>It's always crazy to me that people stan a language enough to want to uphold some sort of historical definition of any specific word as if that matters at all. It's even more hilarious when we have seen languages evolve over time and words given different meanings over the last how many hundreds/thousands of years that any given language has existed for. I guess it was okay for things to change then but not now, right? I encounter so many of these people on the internet, and I commend all of you for trying to reason and have this conversation about it in the year 2020. Maybe if this was 2015 I could understand if someone wanted to claim ignorance or 'want my mind changed', but there's no way that this is someone's first exposure to this at this point. If after years someone is still trying to make the same argument then maybe they don't actually want their mind changed. The spoiler is that they don't actually care about upholding the sanctity of the language or whatever nonsense they try to mask it as. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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davidponte 12/02/20 6:48:08 AM #131:	Imagine being so upset and having your day be so inconvenienced because someone asks you to refer to them in a specific way lmao couldn't be me --- I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history, but azuarc was our Guru Champion! <cite>davidponte posted [p:947831251] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Imagine being so upset and having your day be so inconvenienced because someone asks you to refer to them in a specific way lmao couldn't be me </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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davidponte 12/02/20 6:50:04 AM #133:	I heard scientists say anecdotally that having to refer to someone as they when I don't want to can be even more painful than child birth. Can you believe it? --- I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history, but azuarc was our Guru Champion! <cite>davidponte posted [p:947831286] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>I heard scientists say anecdotally that having to refer to someone as they when I don't want to can be even more painful than child birth. Can you believe it? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LordoftheMorons 12/02/20 6:55:17 AM #136:	I'm sure Ulti railed just as hard against people using "their" as shorthand for "his or her" a decade ago. He's just a stalwart defender of the English language!!! --- Congrats to azuarc, GotD2 Guru champ! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:947831358] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>I'm sure Ulti railed just as hard against people using "their" as shorthand for "his or her" a decade ago. He's just a stalwart defender of the English language!!! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte 12/02/20 6:56:42 AM #137:	Ulti I don't really want to argue with you, but generally what I have to say to these types of lines of thinking is 'literally who cares'. Why do people have to be language police all of sudden. How does this pain you in any way? If you don't want to partake, that's on you for being selfish towards the understanding of other people, but it costs you nothing to be silently selfish. Instead, everyone always has to jump at the first possible point to try to shove their thoughts in. I never met a single person who cared as much about how English works during my time getting an English degree as people on the internet care about pronoun use. --- I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history, but azuarc was our Guru Champion! <cite>davidponte posted [p:947831379] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Ulti I don't really want to argue with you, but generally what I have to say to these types of lines of thinking is 'literally who cares'. Why do people have to be language police all of sudden. How does this pain you in any way? If you don't want to partake, that's on you for being selfish towards the understanding of other people, but it costs you nothing to be silently selfish. Instead, everyone always has to jump at the first possible point to try to shove their thoughts in. I never met a single person who cared as much about how English works during my time getting an English degree as people on the internet care about pronoun use. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 12/02/20 6:57:37 AM #138:	Don't talk to him. <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:947831398] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Don't talk to him. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte 12/02/20 6:58:51 AM #139:	Paratroopa1 posted... Don't talk to him. He's not the only one in the topic who has echoed similar thoughts so I figured I'd bite so they all could see it. --- I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history, but azuarc was our Guru Champion! <cite>davidponte posted [p:947831411] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Paratroopa1 posted... </cite> <quote>Don't talk to him.</quote> He's not the only one in the topic who has echoed similar thoughts so I figured I'd bite so they all could see it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 12/02/20 7:00:25 AM #140:	He isn't welcome here. Ignore him. <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:947831431] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>He isn't welcome here. Ignore him. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Djungelurban 12/02/20 7:04:17 AM #142:	If she wants to be a he now then good for them, you do you, that's none of my concern. But they'll still be Ellen Page in my head... <cite>Djungelurban posted [p:947831478] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>If she wants to be a he now then good for them, you do you, that's none of my concern. But they'll still be Ellen Page in my head... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 12/02/20 7:05:47 AM #143:	I see the transphobes have come out of the woodworks, so fuck having ever tried to be nice. What a mistake that was. <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:947831496] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>I see the transphobes have come out of the woodworks, so fuck having ever tried to be nice. What a mistake that was. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Nanis23 12/02/20 7:08:58 AM #146:	Please don't fight with Para, ulti Para is actually willing to listen and explain, I respect Para a lot It's probably not mutual but I don't care to admit this --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:947831544] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Please don't fight with Para, ulti Para is actually willing to listen and explain, I respect Para a lot It's probably not mutual but I don't care to admit this </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Nanis23 12/02/20 7:19:42 AM #148:	davidponte posted... Ulti I don't really want to argue with you, but generally what I have to say to these types of lines of thinking is 'literally who cares'. Why do people have to be language police all of sudden. How does this pain you in any way? If you don't want to partake, that's on you for being selfish towards the understanding of other people, but it costs you nothing to be silently selfish. Instead, everyone always has to jump at the first possible point to try to shove their thoughts in. I never met a single person who cared as much about how English works during my time getting an English degree as people on the internet care about pronoun use. Because this is about changing the meaning of one of the most used words ever? --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:947831666] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>davidponte posted... </cite> <quote>Ulti I don't really want to argue with you, but generally what I have to say to these types of lines of thinking is 'literally who cares'. Why do people have to be language police all of sudden. How does this pain you in any way? If you don't want to partake, that's on you for being selfish towards the understanding of other people, but it costs you nothing to be silently selfish. Instead, everyone always has to jump at the first possible point to try to shove their thoughts in. I never met a single person who cared as much about how English works during my time getting an English degree as people on the internet care about pronoun use.</quote>Because this is about changing the meaning of one of the most used words ever? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 12/02/20 7:24:55 AM #149:	Nanis23 posted... Because this is about changing the meaning of one of the most used words ever? It's really not Probably like 90% of people already use the singular they to refer to somebody of unspecified gender (since 'his or her', while less ambiguous, is clunkier), and just sticking with that for people who ask for it is by far the easiest way to accommodate peoples' wishes. --- Congrats to azuarc, GotD2 Guru champ! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:947831732] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Nanis23 posted... </cite> <quote>Because this is about changing the meaning of one of the most used words ever?</quote>It's really not Probably like 90% of people already use the singular they to refer to somebody of unspecified gender (since 'his or her', while less ambiguous, is clunkier), and just sticking with that for people who ask for it is by far the easiest way to accommodate peoples' wishes. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ShatteredElysium 12/02/20 7:33:01 AM #150:	UltimaterializerX posted... Youre talking about popular use. They as singular is not popular use. Do you think there are as many people using they as singular as there are people who used literally and ironic incorrectly enough times to get the definition changed? They used singularly absolutely is commonly used in England even before it was part of any trans discussion. I say this as someone who is A. English and B. has an English degree. I remember it used to frustrate the hell out of one of the Austrians in our MMO group. They couldn't wrap their head around it. <cite>ShatteredElysium posted [p:947831832] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>UltimaterializerX posted... </cite> <quote>Youre talking about popular use. They as singular is not popular use. Do you think there are as many people using they as singular as there are people who used literally and ironic incorrectly enough times to get the definition changed?</quote> They used singularly absolutely is commonly used in England even before it was part of any trans discussion. I say this as someone who is A. English and B. has an English degree. I remember it used to frustrate the hell out of one of the Austrians in our MMO group. They couldn't wrap their head around it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GildedFool 12/02/20 7:54:17 AM #151:	Hey, help me out here, point out the flaw in my grammar. I have a doctor. Just one, I'm not greedy. They have a PhD in medicine. Cool? Cool. --- https://i.imgtc.com/tP0gkiQ.png <cite>GildedFool posted [p:947832183] in Elliot Pag... [t:79146608]...</cite> <quote>Hey, help me out here, point out the flaw in my grammar. I have a doctor. Just one, I'm not greedy. They have a PhD in medicine. Cool? Cool. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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