Board 8 > Elliot Page

(+) Yeah! (+)

ZenOfThunder posted...

there was actually a furry with a rainbow tail that went to my college named Otter

i never learned his (their?) real name but nobody really had a problem calling them Otter

Man, even in the furry community no one refers to me by my fursona's name...

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GildedFool posted...

Because it shows he clearly doesn't know how to recognise whether people are actually interested in a relationship with him.

This is coming from Santa of "No often means Yes" and "C'mon, we've ALL almost sexually assaulted somebody" fame.

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StealThisSheen posted...

This is coming from Santa of "No often means Yes" and "C'mon, we've ALL almost sexually assaulted somebody" fame.

dude you just don't appreciate the artistry of those posts

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StealThisSheen posted...

This is coming from Santa of "No often means Yes" and "C'mon, we've ALL almost sexually assaulted somebody" fame.

It's funny when I bring progressive ideals to these topics, usually through the lens of being critical of myself, taking ownership of my own wrongdoings the message usually gleamed from people on the internet are never"I'm glad you got better, please continue to improve" or something along those lines, its usually "You were bad once so you should always be shamed, because normal people aren't like that" It really kinda outlines the intolerance of well "left wing" or "progressive" isn't the right term, because that's not what you are. More like "internet posturers" who care more about being on the correct side than actually solving the problem. People like you don't actually care about improving the environment, it's more about just being correct for you. I'm glad you've never done anything that hurt people before, because I doubt you would have the tools to improve nor the self-love for yourself if you did. I'll never have a specific soundbyte available to discredit you, so you'll probably win most arguments as far as the internets concerned. Bravo for that. I say the things I say because I think they're helpful and true to self-improvement for people like me. If one person becomes 1% less transphobic because of my post, or rethinks their own past behavior with sexuality, or finds it in their heart to forgive someone in their life who was an asshole like me, it's worth giving you a .txt file of quotes to say out of context so you can win fights on board 8.

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The reason people tend to not "I'm glad you got better" in these situations is because you keep giving these takes that makes it sound like you have not, in fact, gotten better. You keep pushing the same beliefs and protecting the same kinds of behaviors and making the same arguments and criticizing the same people when they say something is wrong or offensive.

You take this holier than thou attitude of "No, it's not offensive" or "No, it's not wrong," and you seem to think that admitting you were or are an asshole or whatever allows you to do that instead of taking a few moments to think about maybe the reason YOU don't think these things are wrong or offensive is an issue with you, and not just because people are snowflakes.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

it's worth giving you a .txt file of quotes to say out of context so you can win fights on board 8.

admittedly, i don't remember the context but i'm struggling to think of a context where "C'mon, we've ALL almost sexually assaulted somebody" is not a very bad take.

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Like, dude, I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt and say I see where you're coming from, and good for you on improving, and all that. But when you're pushing these takes like "Racist jokes aren't the problem, we should have racist jokes, they just need to be funny racist jokes because then anybody who is offended is the problem, not the joke itself," it just seems like you're really missing a lot of it and you don't seem to want to get why.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

admittedly, i don't remember the context but i'm struggling to think of a context where "C'mon, we've ALL almost sexually assaulted somebody" is not a very bad take.

It was about one of the FGC/Melee/whatever cases. I think this one in particular a dude crawled into bed with a drunk chick and started grinding against her and shit, and his take was "We've all done shit like this is it really so bad?"

Which is a very, very bad take.

And, to be fair, more power to him if he really is trying to change that mentality. It just doesn't seem like it since he just keeps giving these super bizarre takes to defend bad stuff.

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StealThisSheen posted...

And, to be fair, more power to him if he really is trying to change that mentality.

oh, sure. everyone deserves a chance to improve/be forgiven for past mistakes.

i'm kinda baffled that he apparently needed to have an argument with board 8 to realize that that quote is dumb, though >_>

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And to be perfectly fair, I'm being an asshole here, too. I probably shouldn't have brought it up. It's just hard to take what he's saying about introspection seriously when there's an ongoing pattern here and he tries to treat us like we're crazy or just can't "get" his posts.

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StealThisSheen posted...

The reason people tend to not "I'm glad you got better" in these situations is because you keep giving these takes that makes it sound like you have not, in fact, gotten better. You keep pushing the same beliefs and protecting the same kinds of behaviors and making the same arguments and criticizing the same people when they say something is wrong or offensive.

As a progressive, I have to make sure my portfolio is ironclad, and I can defend it. This means I can't jump on the bandwagon of everything that twitter thinks is offensive. I have to actually self-reflect, and consider where I stand. Defending bad ideas that I don't agree with will damage my authenticity, which, I think even you will agree I have in spades. If it's not a bad idea, and I'm wrong, usually I can count on the board to correct me, which they often do. I think The reason you think I defend the same type of people and critique the same type of person is because we are on a liberal board, where even the hardest right of us is fairly socially progressive compared to the norm. If you had caught me during the DWMF topics, you probably would have seen the opposite me. If you caught me talking to the people in my rural neighborhood, you would see the opposite me (Though he would be saying the exact same things).

Furthermore, as I've pointed out, I'm an asshole. I defend people I see myself inside, not to justify their behaviours but to offer both the assholes and the "victims" of assholery a way forward. Would my time be better spent defending the sensitive, the fragile, the broken? Perhaps it would, but I'm better equipped to help assholes get better, and help people find peace with assholes, and it seems the others have the help they need even without me.

Even in topics where there's a progressive issue I'm passionate about, there's usually already people ready to take up the charge on this board, and they usually have a better grasp on how to defend the issue than me. The fact that you're using the word snowflake means you had a box to put me in and you put me in it. Just so you know, in other arguments I would be called the snowflake or the SJW or the liberal pile o' sticks so if there's a group out there that accepts my ideals I sure as hell haven't found it.

Ultimately I don't really believe in shame as an effective tool (I use it against you guys ironically, I hope no one thinks I'm genuinely ashamed of them[but I doubt anyone would lose sleep if they did]) I believe in self-actualization, making peace with each other's flaws, and a diverse landscape of ideas. I believe being rough around each other is how we learn to get close with each other, which is why I love a culture of put-downs, roasting, and scathing commentary.

Yeah, I do act holier than thou most of the time, but in my defense, thou sucks shit sometimes so I like to flex it when a rat like me gets to wear the halo.

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Also the incident in question was Mangs, fire emblem youtuber, claiming to have sniffed a girls hair and putting his arm around her when he slept in the same bed as a woman. My take wasn't "Everyone does something like this, it's not that bad" it was more along the lines of "Most people have done something along these lines because we aren't born understanding boundaries and their own level of self control." with the crux of my post saying basically I didn't really think what he did changed my opinion of him very much. The other hot takes I dropped in that topic were things like "many of us have tried stuff like this and had it work out" in which I pointed to my own examples of doing similar actions and having them end in a relationship. Again, since oversharing is my thing on this board, I've since evolved to "I'm probably not going to share a bed with you unless you are 100% down to clown" just to kind of stay clear of any grey areas that could potentially hurt people.

This isn't really the productive area to talk about this but I did want to clear the air about this.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

As a progressive, I have to make sure my portfolio is ironclad, and I can defend it. This means I can't jump on the bandwagon of everything that twitter thinks is offensive. I have to actually self-reflect, and consider where I stand.

This is part of the problem, though. You rely so hard on what you, personally, think is offensive that you seem to think then nobody could reasonably find X offensive and so they must be snowflakes, looking to be offended, whatever. And then you criticize those people and go into "Sniff own farts" mode instead of trying to understand where they're coming from. You don't appear to want to look past your own feelings and experiences to accept that others don't share those same feelings and experiences.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

Also the incident in question was Mangs, fire emblem youtuber, claiming to have sniffed a girls hair and putting his arm around her when he slept in the same bed as a woman.

This isn't entirely accurate:

Sunday morning, I woke up being violated. I felt his dick pressed against my body. He was kissing my hair, rubbing my back and groaning. I remember this vividly.

And this was after she made him promise to her numerous times to not touch her, so it wasn't a missed signal or anything, which was why we kept arguing about it with you. I believe it's also where it got into the "Well No can often mean Yes" argument.

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What I am hearing this boil down to is that you like to play devil's advocate to help jerks be less jerky

which...doesn't seem that helpful when we have plenty of jerks to deal with already

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Yeah, as I said, I was arguing about what he was claiming, which is was being posted and also being attacked at the time. The dick press isn't a move I'll defend unless you're married/in a long term relationship to the person. I was trying to be concise in my summary because, as I said, rehashing this old argument isn't really something I think is productive.

StealThisSheen posted...

This is part of the problem, though. You rely so hard on what you, personally, think is offensive that you seem to think then nobody could reasonably find X offensive and so they must be snowflakes, looking to be offended, whatever. And then you criticize those people and go into "Sniff own farts" mode instead of trying to understand where they're coming from. You don't appear to want to look past your own feelings and experiences to accept that others don't share those same feelings and experiences.

Not entirely true. In the last topic of this sort, I asked someone to explain why they found a public statement offensive. When they refused, I explained why I thought their take was offensive. The person in question then decided to use alternating caps and lower case to clarify that they were right.

Tom Bombadil posted...

What I am hearing this boil down to is that you like to play devil's advocate to help jerks be less jerky

Usually there's a level of damage that happens when virtue posturing happens that I want to fight. Both for the personal PR of progressive ideals and also in consideration for the people who are hurt by by people who use "woke" as a matter of status and class instead of lifting each other up.

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I think the arguments are a bit more similar than they'd appear.

Our argument at the time to the Mangs situation was "When somebody says don't touch them, don't touch them. That should be the end of it." There was no real reason to try to defend it as a mistake or missed signal. It just is what it is.

Likewise, if somebody wants to be referred to by a certain name, or pronoun, or whatever, there's really no reason to be looking for reasons and examples for why it's dumb or silly or whatever, instead of just... Doing it.

It's about respecting others instead of trying to twist things into knots because you don't like something or want something.

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"if there's a rule, then follow the rule don't question it" is an ineffective strategy that humanity has seen fail time and time again. Even if its a good rule, people are going to break it, and where does that leave them? Do we sweep those who broke the rules and had better success than those who didn't under the rug? Do we simply label these rule breakers as others/monsters because it didn't work out for them? We have to have a multifaceted approach to problematic behavior because so many people do it, and if we drive the people who do bad things away, you'll get almost a full half of the country think they're not welcome in a space where people are supposed to improve themselves.

I realize it's very hamfisted to call your thought Orwellian by nature, but Animal Farm is required reading in most schools for a reason. You can't fix society with platitudes, and usually any attempt at doing so is not a failure on the platitude's part, it's a failure on a network of people who know how to disobey the spirit of the law but not the letter. It's tougher and it takes longer, but you have to rechallenge social dogmas over and over until the day you die. Challenging ideas isn't a sign of disrespect or not believing in the ideas. It's the farmer shaking the fence to make sure it won't fall over. It's Frank Lloyd Wright throwing sand on his building to defend his architecture.

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Also, if I can play my own devil's advocate, those people who want to get away with their bad behavior and save the status quo sound a LOT like me, which is a big problem. The insincere are good at nothing save imitating the sincere It means the same way the world needs people like me challenging what I think is "wrong" you also have to have people challenging me, and people challenging those people as well. I'm def not looking for a world where everyone agrees with me, which is why I love to argue on board 8. Really gives me a chance to explore the space and let my id take control over a lot of the discussion so that I can know what to reign in when I find myself arguing with real people who could take actual offense over it in the real world.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

"if there's a rule, then follow the rule don't question it" is an ineffective strategy that humanity has seen fail time and time again.

Okay but this isn't some government rule. It's literally just being a decent person and respecting somebody's wishes when they aren't harming you in any way whatsoever.

"Don't touch me sexually" should not be a rule you should question. It's not some Orwellian thing.

Applying that logic to everything is probably partially why you've gotten into some of the problems you have.

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And yet, apparently, we have millions of people on this planet who have questioned this thought, and found not enough evidence to sway them from their actions. Myself included. Why did I do that, what did I not understand, and how can I prevent other people from making the same mistake? You can bark all about how humans "should" be all you want, but we need more than that apparently.

And being a government rule or a social rule is literally exactly the same. The punishment might vary from government to government but it's still the same framework holding up the house.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Applying that logic to everything is probably partially why you've gotten into some of the problems you have.

if your argument is "if you followed the rules all the time, you would get into less trouble" yeah, I agree. But a society that follows the rules all the time goes to a way darker place than a boner press in the night. So I still think I did it right.

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Your problem Santa, based on the last few pages, is that you make every conversation about yourself and your personal growth to the point that it detracts from the actual topic.

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are you sure it's me and not the people who come in with a laundry list of my past grievances to discredit whatever my latest post was about <_< I ain't tryna go full ulti here but people brought personal attacks about me into the conversation way before I started talking about myself.

You're definitely right to an extent though! I think me and sep had this argument coming for a long time tho, so it had to come out in some topic sooner or later. Sorry Elliot! I promise I'll watch your next movie that edgelords boycott as a penance for this topic.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

are you sure it's me and not the people who come in with a laundry list of my past grievances to discredit whatever my latest post was about <_< I ain't tryna go full ulti here but people brought personal attacks about me into the conversation way before I started talking about myself.

Its funny because Ulti literally pioneered that technique on this board. He was the first one to literally keep text files filled with old quotes from various users and then spam them in completely unrelated topics.


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SantaRPidgey posted...

And yet, apparently, we have millions of people on this planet who have questioned this thought, and found not enough evidence to sway them from their actions. Myself included. Why did I do that, what did I not understand, and how can I prevent other people from making the same mistake? You can bark all about how humans "should" be all you want, but we need more than that apparently.

And one of the first steps should be calling this behavior out for what it is, not finding excuses for it. You can't begin to move on and improve if you're not willing to accept it's wrong in the first place.

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Collidings actually kinda right so I think we've kinda reached the apex of are argument and I don't feel like we can go much further without talking in circles. This is a topic celebrating Elliot and grammar I'm actually a little embarrassed I steered it so far away. Let's let what we said to each other marinate for a while and come back fresh next topic.

Good Game SEP

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SantaRPidgey posted...

Not entirely true. In the last topic of this sort, I asked someone to explain why they found a public statement offensive. When they refused, I explained why I thought their take was offensive. The person in question then decided to use alternating caps and lower case to clarify that they were right.

Yes this is exactly how it went.

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Waluigi1 posted...

Yes this is exactly how it went.

...Isn't it?

Yeah it kinda is how it went.

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If someone showed up to my place of work for a job interview in a rainbow outfit demanding to be referred to as a literal sea otter with no other name or gender, they would not get hired, and I refuse to believe anyone in this topic thinks otherwise.

Like you guys are being obtuse on purpose.

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...what?

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Wow ulti is using passive voice when referring to hiring people at his job, finally admitting that he's not even close to responsible for that

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Santa once thought that salting pasta water didn't make a difference

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CasanovaZelos posted...

...what?

What?

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I just found out about this today

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Pokalicious posted...

I just found out about this today

https://imgur.com/gallery/HcT37

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redrocket posted...

https://imgur.com/gallery/HcT37

Firefox Cant Open This Page

To protect your security, imgur.com will not allow Firefox to display the page if another site has embedded it. To see this page, you need to open it in a new window.

wtf lol

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