Poll of the Day > Anywhere trying to legalize/decriminalize prostitution?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Weed and drugs are getting it, so why not the oldest profession?

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Minnesota

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Because apparently opposition to it is pretty bipartisan and across both political extremes. Honestly, if we believe that consenting adults should be allowed to have sex with any other consenting adults, why should it become illegal the second money is involved? Then there are all of the secondary and pragmatic issues that I consider weaker justifications (because they aren't justifications in themselves) like the fact that it would afford more legal protections to prostitutes and lessen unwilling participation in the industry.

Unless society is also cracking down on promiscuity and obscenity in general, it doesn't make a lot of sense to single this one thing out. If you believe that men and women should have as many sexual partners as they want, what justification would you have against prostitution? And if somebody is worried about prostitution "corrupting" women or adversely impacting their career choices, why wouldn't they brook similar objection at porn sites, OnlyFans, and lewd photos on IG?

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I wonder if sex workers could get around the laws by saying they are being hired to be an actor/actress in an adult film, and then simply record it?

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It is legal in most of Nevada (except the major cities, Las Vegas and Reno). But yea, I have said for a while they should just make it legal. I guess it just hasn't come up because there are so many on-line alternatives.

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I don't really see why it should be illegal either.

It absolutely should either be legal or decriminalized (not the same thing, but either would be a huge improvement).

But this country is still haunted w/ outdated Puritanical morals.
Both the Christian conservatives and SJW/"Feminist" liberals basically tag team to stifle sexual freedom and expression. In fact, instead of gaining ground against their vile forces, those of us who are sane have been on the back foot the past decade, watching rights be eroded away.
FOSTA/SESTA being the most glaring example. A horrific bill conjured up by evangelicals and promoted publicly by liberal celebrities.
Then you look at Australia's crackdown on porn and anime (if only they put in a fraction of that effort towards the wildfires last year!). Or the UK's repeated attempts to force citizens to request a "porn pass" and to ban certain forms of porn they find distasteful (including wide sweeping and largely innocuous categories, not even like the really extreme stuff).
And you realize that currently the forces of sanity are losing the war, and that changing the laws against prostitution can be changed anytime soon is a pipe dream, sadly.

It definitely should be legal.

Doing so would make the job safer, and reduce the power of organized crime who pimp and traffic people.

Plus on the government side, reduced unemployment rates and more taxable income by legitimizing it.

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CarefreeDude posted...

Weed and drugs are getting it, so why not the oldest profession?

I thought it has been in Australia forever. They have brothels. I know NZ does, too.

IronBornCorps posted...

It definitely should be legal.

Doing so would make the job safer, and reduce the power of organized crime who pimp and traffic people.

Plus on the government side, reduced unemployment rates and more taxable income by legitimizing it.

Kind of like how there are no street weed dealers now because of legalisation, right?

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zebatov posted...

I thought it has been in Australia forever. They have brothels. I know NZ does, too.

Kind of like how there are no street weed dealers now because of legalisation, right?

Its fully legal in Amsterdam, street hookers are no more (but have red light rooms/brothels) pimping is way down, but it still exists sadly

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streamofthesky posted...

Both the Christian conservatives and SJW/"Feminist" liberals basically tag team to stifle sexual freedom and expression.

Weird. Pretty much all feminists I know are pro-sex work.

Ogurisama posted...

Its fully legal in Amsterdam, street hookers are no more (but have red light rooms/brothels) pimping is way down, but it still exists sadly

Yeah, there will always be a black market, no matter how legal the product/service is. Providing a legal alternative does drastically cut into the black market's profitability, though.

JigsawTDC posted...

Weird. Pretty much all feminists I know are pro-sex work.

Same. Sex-negative feminism isn't really all that prevalent these days.

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zebatov posted...

Kind of like how there are no street weed dealers now because of legalisation, right?

Read safer not safe, read reduce not eliminate.

But yes, pretty much.

*Edit* I apologise if I sound mildly hostile in tone, I have turned a few tricks and my day and it is kind of a personal issue to me. I understand I may have misread your tone as well.

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JigsawTDC posted...

Weird. Pretty much all feminists I know are pro-sex work.

The true feminists are and should be pro-sex work. For decades, the rights of sex workers were a major concern for the feminist movement.

But the newer "waves" of feminists are more anti-sex. The crazies that think even consensual sex is inherently assault/abuse of women.

I put "Feminist" in quotes because I don't consider those crazies to be actual feminists. Trying to dictate to women what they can and can't do w/ their bodies and remove their autonomy and then claiming you're a "feminist" is inherently insane and contradictory. But they label themselves as such.

Sorry, probably should've clarified my meaning.

IronBornCorps posted...

Also, I have no doubt street weed profits are down where recreation is legal. Many people will choose the legal option when available.

At least once the legal option is well established. The weed market in Canada is still very much in its infancy, such that the legal market is often less convenient to access and offers inferior products than the street market. That will change over time, though, hence bootlegging isn't really a thing anymore despite it being very easy and cheap to make your own booze at home.

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streamofthesky posted...

The true feminists are and should be pro-sex work. For decades, the rights of sex workers were a major concern for the feminist movement.

But the newer "waves" of feminists are more anti-sex. The crazies that think even consensual sex is inherently assault/abuse of women.

I put "Feminist" in quotes because I don't consider those crazies to be actual feminists. Trying to dictate to women what they can and can't do w/ their bodies and remove their autonomy and then claiming you're a "feminist" is inherently insane and contradictory. But they label themselves as such.

Sorry, probably should've clarified my meaning.

SWERFs (sex worker exclusionary radical feminists) are almost always middle-aged to older women, and sometimes men of any age. The younger generation of feminists is extremely sex positive and pro-sex work. I don't think OnlyFans would be as popular as it is if younger feminists were anti-sex. You're clearly out of touch with actual feminist circles and getting your info from whatever source you want to believe.

CarefreeDude posted...

I wonder if sex workers could get around the laws by saying they are being hired to be an actor/actress in an adult film, and then simply record it?

This comes up from time to time because it's constitutionally protected free speech. I'm not lawyer, or 100% on how it would or wouldn't work, but one thing I'm sure of is in the USA it would require a fairly intimate database on every single one of your "actors" (clients) for 18-USC-2257 record keeping compliance. Discretion and confidentiality would be nonexistent on a number of levels. That alone would act as a barrier. Then it raises potential issues on my next point, because if you do end up in court, and are convicted, then those records you kept become evidence of other people's illegal activities. No one wants that.

The second point is whether or not you'd get busted for quid pro quo sex anyway. The legal system isn't stupid, they know when you're disingenuously working some technicality in order to commit a crime. This approach would probably be terrible for individual sex workers looking for a legitimate way to engage in their trade, but might work out on the other side for people who want to pay for sex work and are seeking an outlet with at least some veneer of legality. You have the right to self expression and that includes sexual expression. Pursuant to that, you have the right to recruit and pay performers for a production even if that performance involves sexual acts. That has a firm basis in constitutional law. So far so good but it isn't the whole story. There's more I could say about this but if what you're really doing, like really-really doing at the end of the day is paying people for sex and calling it video production, a prosecutor might just figure out how to turn that into a case against you, especially if most of your performers are known prostitutes.

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CarefreeDude posted...

I wonder if sex workers could get around the laws by saying they are being hired to be an actor/actress in an adult film, and then simply record it?

Technically that can be used as a defense right now, I think?

streamofthesky posted...

Then you look at Australia's crackdown on porn and anime (if only they put in a fraction of that effort towards the wildfires last year!).

jfc that was insane, but it mirrors a lot of leftist nations which, through the magic of horseshoe theory, have found themselves on the same side as overly-conservative nations.

zebatov posted...

They have brothels. I know NZ does, too.

Huh, I wonder how he knows that...

Kungfu Kenobi posted...

This comes up from time to time because it's constitutionally protected free speech. I'm not lawyer, or 100% on how it would or wouldn't work, but one thing I'm sure of is in the USA it would require a fairly intimate database on every single one of your "actors" (clients) for 18-USC-2257 record keeping compliance. Discretion and confidentiality would be nonexistent on a number of levels. That alone would act as a barrier. Then it raises potential issues on my next point, because if you do end up in court, and are convicted, then those records you kept become evidence of other people's illegal activities. No one wants that.

The second point is whether or not you'd get busted for quid pro quo sex anyway. The legal system isn't stupid, they know when you're disingenuously working some technicality in order to commit a crime. This approach would probably be terrible for individual sex workers looking for a legitimate way to engage in their trade, but might work out on the other side for people who want to pay for sex work and are seeking an outlet with at least some veneer of legality. You have the right to self expression and that includes sexual expression. Pursuant to that, you have the right to recruit and pay performers for a production even if that performance involves sexual acts. That has a firm basis in constitutional law. So far so good but it isn't the whole story. There's more I could say about this but if what you're really doing, like really-really doing at the end of the day is paying people for sex and calling it video production, a prosecutor might just figure out how to turn that into a case against you, especially if most of your performers are known prostitutes.

From a technical standpoint, you don't need to register as anything to be an actor. Or maybe you're referring to something specifically related to porno?

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Should obviously be legal.

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Zeus posted...

Or maybe you're referring to something specifically related to porno?

It's specific to porn. 2257 spells out certain record keeping requirements relating to anyone producing sexually explicit videos or pictures. There are ways around that, but they put you on shaky first amendment grounds and that's your entire defense. So I presume 2257.

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JigsawTDC posted...

Weird. Pretty much all feminists I know are pro-sex work.

So they are only trying to remove sexy women from video games then?

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CarefreeDude posted...

I wonder if sex workers could get around the laws by saying they are being hired to be an actor/actress in an adult film, and then simply record it?

according to manswers you can!

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It's not something you want decriminalized, because once it's legal it becomes so common that women sell their bodies for a 1/5th of what they get now, on top of having to be in a sterile environment.

Nobody ever misses going to a prostitute but I wouldn't put them in handcuffs, there's never really a right answer to that sort of thing and it's always going to be around in some form as long as capitalism is involved.

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JigsawTDC posted...

Weird. Pretty much all feminists I know are pro-sex work.

Most aren't though, especially the younger ones and those in power.
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RoboXgp89 posted...

It's not something you want decriminalized, because once it's legal it becomes so common that women sell their bodies for a 1/5th of what they get now, on top of having to be in a sterile environment.

Legal brothels have been successful businesses for thousands of years. I'm sure it'll work out fine.

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RoboXgp89 posted...

It's not something you want decriminalized, because once it's legal it becomes so common that women sell their bodies for a 1/5th of what they get now, on top of having to be in a sterile environment.

That sounds like it could be better if it's devalued then maybe we'll have less of the average woman resorting to it. It'd be great if we had less Snapchat premiums and only fans. A decent amount of women already do this on the side. Heck an old FWB of mine was once talking to me about how she was maybe going to go back to prostitution and she was not very good looking.

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RoboXgp89 posted...

It's not something you want decriminalized, because once it's legal it becomes so common that women sell their bodies for a 1/5th of what they get now, on top of having to be in a sterile environment.

lolwut? Do you realize how little the average prostitute actually gets now? Her pimp takes most of that money. The only place where their earnings might legit be hurt -- and that's a maybe -- is high-end legal establishments.

Also decriminalized and legal aren't even the same fucking thing.

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Legalize and regulate.

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Hop103 posted...

Most aren't though, especially the younger ones and those in power.

Except that's not true lol. Modern feminism emphasizes intersectionality, which includes sex work. Self-proclaimed feminists that are against sex work have been given the name SWERFs (as mentioned above), which is a relatively new term since younger intersectional feminists needed a way to distinguish themselves from those older feminists against sex work.

You're obviously speaking from a limited window of experience and haven't actually researched or participated in any of this. If you're not actually familiar with the broader arcs of the movement, any of the literature or people, or any of the history, what makes you think your perspective on feminism is a clear perception?

deoxxys posted...

So they are only trying to remove sexy women from video games then?

I don't think most feminists place that very high on a list of priorities, if at all. I think most feminists would like to see more nuanced portrayals of women in video games, and some probably feel the oversaturation of oversexaulized characters inhibits that, but I think they're far less concerned with sexy pixels than you. Also, pixelated art mostly done by men has pretty much nothing to do with actual sex work lol.

JigsawTDC posted...

Except that's not true lol. Modern feminism emphasizes intersectionality, which includes sex work. Self-proclaimed feminists that are against sex work have been given the name SWERFs (as mentioned above), which is a relatively new term since younger intersectional feminists needed a way to distinguish themselves from those older feminists against sex work.

You're obviously speaking from a limited window of experience and haven't actually researched or participated in any of this. If you're not actually familiar with the broader arcs of the movement, any of the literature or people, or any of the history, what makes you think your perspective on feminism is a clear perception?

You're literally making that claim based on personal anecdotes then accusing him of having a limited window of experience.

And how old is old in your book? Are women in their 30s and 40s excluded from your argument, even though they actually make up a backbone of feminism today unlike teens who aren't in a position to do anything and 20-somethings who are still finding themselves?

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deoxxys posted...

So they are only trying to remove sexy women from video games then?

Not remove, just include other women as well. Probably seems like they are removing them when the percentage of women in video games who are "sexy"(eye of the beholder) is no longer 100%

Not to mention work to correct unrealistic beauty standards propagated by the industry for decades.

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Lol unrealistic beauty standards, as if being anything but fit will get you attention as a man, all girls want is 6ft+ chiseled men. But lets be honest, its a video game, its meant to be fantasy. People dont have superpowers or fight demons and dragons in real life either, they're allowed to have a big rack or big muscles.

If you realistically look at games as a whole, the number of games with women who have fatass/titties, the percentage is a very small minority. So if you aim to change what is already a small minority, its essentially just removing sexy women from video games completely. A little late for this dialogue since the gaming industry has seemingly already gone forward with this notion, I cant even remember the last game I played with a thicc woman in it. And many games have gone so far past de-sexualization to the point where they have messed with the female face so much that many have started looking like ugly feminine men.

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IronBornCorps posted...

Not remove, just include other women as well. Probably seems like they are removing them when the percentage of women in video games who are "sexy"(eye of the beholder) is no longer 100%

Not to mention work to correct unrealistic beauty standards propagated by the industry for decades.

No, a lot of Western games just straight up make the female characters ugly and/or "man-ish" now, where the in-game female characters outright look worse than the real world women they were modeled after. I think most of the time, it's unintentional poor face design, but definitely examples like MK11 where they intentionally made the women ugly and covered up to combat the evil "male gaze" and said as such.

And somehow all the buff male characters w/ physiques you'd need steroids to achieve are A-ok, it's only the female designs that are "problematic".

Y'all...Super Mario one of the most timeless and iconic video game characters there is.

Super ripped and buff

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deoxxys posted...

Lol unrealistic beauty standards, as if being anything but fit will get you attention as a man, all girls want is 6ft+ chiseled men. But lets be honest, its a video game, its meant to be fantasy. People dont have superpowers or fight demons and dragons in real life either, they're allowed to have a big rack or big muscles.

If you realistically look at games as a whole, the number of games with women who have fatass/titties, the percentage is a very small minority. So if you aim to change what is already a small minority, its essentially just removing sexy women from video games completely. A little late for this dialogue since the gaming industry has seemingly already gone forward with this notion, I cant even remember the last game I played with a thicc woman in it. And many games have gone so far past de-sexualization to the point where they have messed with the female face so much that many have started looking like ugly feminine men.

Spoken like someone who has never talked to a girl irl and gets most their info from red pill incel forums lol

IronBornCorps posted...

Y'all...Super Mario one of the most timeless and iconic video game characters there is.

Super ripped and buff

And let us not forget Princess Peach, gallivanting around in string bikinis with her giants tits bouncing around, ever since the NES era.
That one example totally proves my point, too!

JigsawTDC posted...

Spoken like someone who has never talked to a girl irl and gets most their info from red pill incel forums lol

Im not wrong, and I've probably slept with more women then you lol but thats an ad hominem.

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...Why did a topic on sex work being legalized or decriminalized turn into an argument about video games, anyway?

streamofthesky posted...

...Why did a topic on sex work being legalized or decriminalized turn into an argument about video games, anyway?

Its my fault, I was thinking about one of the things feminists ruined for me since apparently they're so "sex-positive".

/partiallyjoking

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streamofthesky posted...

...Why did a topic on sex work being legalized or decriminalized turn into an argument about video games, anyway?

Because the deoxxys dude felt the urge to flash his incel card.

deoxxys posted...

Im not wrong, and I've probably slept with more women then you lol but thats an ad hominem.

Except you are wrong. I don't care about the (likely false) claims of some Internet stranger. Your thoughts and views are clearly in line with red pillers and incel culture. YOU brought this up when it wasn't relevant to the conversation.

You know I'm not really your enemy on this. Men should have more realistic bodies too.
Like Alan Wake, Gordon Freeman, or Joker from Persona

That being said, I do not want to derail this topic any further than I already have.

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JigsawTDC posted...

Because the deoxxys dude felt the urge to flash his incel card.

Except you are wrong. I don't care about the (likely false) claims of some Internet stranger. Your thoughts and views are clearly in line with red pillers and incel culture. YOU brought this up when it wasn't relevant to the conversation.

Ill give you that it wasnt very relevant, but you really cant disagree with me because what I said is completely correct, all you are capable of are personal attacks on your perception of my character, you dont know me on this board or in real life.

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IronBornCorps posted...

You know I'm not really your enemy on this. Men should have more realistic bodies too.
Like Alan Wake, Gordon Freeman, or Joker from Persona

I don't really care if a game has an unrealistic looking dude in it, though.
If it really bothers me, I just don't buy it.

I don't try to go on twitter, ResetEra, or so on and loudly scream for developers to change their games to suite my tastes. I just stick to buying the ones I like. Crazy concept, I know.

deoxxys posted...

Ill give you that it wasnt very relevant, but you really cant disagree with me because what I said is completely correct, all you are capable of are personal attacks on your perception of my character, you dont know me on this board or in real life.

I know that you spout incel rhetoric and think your misinformed views are somehow factually correct, which is enough to assess at least a partial composition of your character, so there's that! :D

JigsawTDC posted...

I know that you spout incel rhetoric and think your misinformed views are somehow factually correct, which is enough to assess at least a partial composition of your character, so there's that! :D

I really dont know what you are on about. Why dont you try to have a dialogue with me instead of trying to resort to ad homenin attacks? Actually trying engaging in conversaation with me, who knows? Maybe Ill change my mind, but if you cant do that, I think it says more about your character then mine.

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deoxxys posted...

I really dont know what you are on about.

That's fine! You don't need to know what I'm on about to keep having fun in your mother's basement playing with ponies and anime girl dolls.

Edit: and I'm not here to "change minds" of people flaunting incel talking points as factual assessments. You're too far gone, buddy.

Sorry I triggered you

/untracked

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I'm not triggered, to be clear. I just don't think incels are worthy of any modicum of respect or dialogue. Not sorry if I'm coming across as a dick. You deserve it! :)

I also don't think it's all of it coming from social media pressure.

The game companies are huge, and have more diverse teams than ever.

Like I said, I'm really not your enemy on this. Big bouncy tits are not needed in some games, and a game about a tournament to the death is a great example of that. If I'm fighting for my life, I would probably wear a sports bra.

Now, can we PLEASE get back to prostitution.

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