Board 8 > vtuber stats and discussion

(+) Yeah! (+)

I guess there's a big kerfuffle with China at the moment, because a lot of stuff is/was simulcast to bilibili. As best I understand it:

-Haato was talking about overseas viewers, and showed some youtube analytics that mentioned Taiwan, probably unaware she was kicking a hornet's nest
-Chinese trolls didn't much care for that
-Coco also mentioned Taiwan, probably on purpose so she could draw aggro because she is the tank of hololive
-Chinese trolls didn't much care for that either
-Coco is getting most of the hate and everybody's suspended on bilibili (which is a bigger deal to some hololivers than others)
-Coco has made chat members-only, which means you have to pay to send her death threats and stuff
-....which they are doing, apparently
-The impression I get is that we are just gonna kinda hunker down and wait for things to blow over, but it probably wouldn't hurt to leave Coco some extra likes and positivity and stuff

Coco I guess is making bank off the haters, but it's probably not the most fun anybody's ever had even for a yakuza dragon

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Question

Which subbing groups for Vtuber content are considered the "best"?
I clicked on a few clips and now get recommended others that are kinda clickbaity in the titles.
I've heard of other clips being translated in such a way that they caused misunderstandings with the English speaking fanbases.

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iv been clicking UF8's links to try to understand the appeal of this

i understand it less than i did before

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Tom Bombadil posted...

-Coco is getting most of the hate and everybody's suspended on bilibili (which is a bigger deal to some hololivers than others)

Yeah this is a huge issue for some of them, ouch

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CoolCly posted...

iv been clicking UF8's links to try to understand the appeal of this

i understand it less than i did before

UF8's mass link posting seems more targetted towards people who already have context, yeah

random eng tl'd streams are how most of us here probably got into vtubers, i still vividly remember this was the first i ever saw and it sucked me in because matsuri was good at telling stories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqHs4VTb2FU

then i found some others who played games I liked (aqua rolling for herself in azur lane, marine playing rhythm tengoku (very badly), pekora playing everything (very smugly)) and it was inescapable

you can probably find a semi-popular vtuber doing near anything these days

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Second the clips being the easiest way to fall down the rabbit hole.

I think one of the most common jumping on points was Korone playing Doom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQMLWIt9md4&ab_channel=osakaki

This was an early one for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXhGIMt65gI&ab_channel=birdkun21

Here's another early fave of mine that is NOT twenty minutes long:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqcHvgXqXXM&ab_channel=CMT

if I knew your tastes in youtube videos or entertainers I could perhaps recommend something more specific but I think all three of those are decent starting points

here's literally a random drawing stream in its entirety from one of the more chill English speakers, if that's more your thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFQot-w_CrA&ab_channel=NinomaeIna%27nisCh.hololive-EN


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voltch posted...

Question

Which subbing groups for Vtuber content are considered the "best"?
I clicked on a few clips and now get recommended others that are kinda clickbaity in the titles.
I've heard of other clips being translated in such a way that they caused misunderstandings with the English speaking fanbases.

I am both more and less qualified to talk about this than everyone else because I know Japanese. I'm less qualified because I actually have an all translator feed but I mostly have it on to listen to in the background.

So the general rule is that the faster the subs are done the less reliable they are, I would guess anything done within a day or two of the source video should be considered guilty until proven innocent, since it probably hasn't been passed around the translator discord once for editing nor has the translator thought at all about what impression it gives new viewers of the vtuber.

The other rule is that any typo, spelling error, or nonsensical sentence in English is a huge red flag. This usually indicates the translator 1) does not have English as a first language 2) is not doing an editing pass for sense making. 3) Might even be using machine translation to supplement their bad language skills.

Negative examples of channels that have bad translation ability:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4Fh9OcvIEWK405Cvg25jDw Sushi[Hololive and Vtubers]
Reasons: Usually clips done within a day or two. Seen them not understand a quiz in Calliope's JP only stream where he didn't understand a JPLT4 question at all (JPLT1 is the top level and is basically considered a joke if you are familiar with the language)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF4-I8ZQL6Aa-iHfdz-B9KQ OtakMori Translations
Reasons: Clips usually done within hours. They translated Mano Aloe's apology stream so badly that the r/hololive mods (who are COVER employees) have removed the clip for its shittiness. The clickbaitiness is also a red flag.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg02KL1G0nmH0QzFuLsVoRQ Vtuber Tengoku
Reasons: One of my JP proficient friends who likes Subaru a lot says it's been bad (lol, I can't give high quality reasons for everything!)

In general if a translator does exclusive content for one vtuber at a consistent rate, with good, cognizant English with about the cadence of once a week (and maybe also consistently simps for their vtuber) these are all good signs.

Good channels:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYn1_-yGrxKJQYKrMl7CqZQ Osakaki
They did the Korone DOOM videos. Just good overall.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaDyXwdL4eYDSJnszYeFMZA blubsubs v
Somehow manages to listen to like 10 people cross talking at high speeds, subtitle them accurately AND has a good sense of editing. I actually watch their videos because I have problems hearing things through crosstalk and I've never disagreed with a choice they've made. Just look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWVt0YnSYEY

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyHJ0eP91ufWGGJQdIQGlSA yoyuu
Just general good impressions + has also tried to advocate for higher quality translations

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU0Z5716wQX8IIZVna7G0zg Lyger
Almost 100% focused on Matsuri, consistently donates to her in her streams, is a mod on her channels, made her outro, has a callout on her channel... also wrote a document trying to explain what the gold standard for translations should be, and I believe I read it but have no proof that he was the one that translated the channel rules into English and is now pasted across every hololiver's channel description.

He is god.

Edit: Formatting so it doesn't just look like an undifferentiated batch of text

Yeah, I've def noticed that some clips read as if English is the subber's second language.

Some of the channels dedicated to a particular playthrough seem better edited at the minimum.
Noticed that for Coco/Pekora.

Also for happenings, Aqua's new outfit doesn't look half bad, makes her look a little older than when she's using the maid outfit.

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I have heard bad things about Hololive Moments, especially now that they're jettisoning their Coco content

Gonna be honest though I usually don't pay tons of attention to who the translator is and just see what pops up in my recommendations that looks fun

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iyger is definitely the most respected translator in the community, yeah

he's the only name i actually recognize, to be honest, mostly because I remember him calling out people on bad stream chat etiquette

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Tom Bombadil posted...

I guess there's a big kerfuffle with China at the moment, because a lot of stuff is/was simulcast to bilibili. As best I understand it:

-Haato was talking about overseas viewers, and showed some youtube analytics that mentioned Taiwan, probably unaware she was kicking a hornet's nest
-Chinese trolls didn't much care for that
-Coco also mentioned Taiwan, probably on purpose so she could draw aggro because she is the tank of hololive
-Chinese trolls didn't much care for that either
-Coco is getting most of the hate and everybody's suspended on bilibili (which is a bigger deal to some hololivers than others)
-Coco has made chat members-only, which means you have to pay to send her death threats and stuff
-....which they are doing, apparently
-The impression I get is that we are just gonna kinda hunker down and wait for things to blow over, but it probably wouldn't hurt to leave Coco some extra likes and positivity and stuff

Coco I guess is making bank off the haters, but it's probably not the most fun anybody's ever had even for a yakuza dragon

extra context i suppose, with the only exception being certain gen 3/4/5 hololive members, vtubers are overwhelmingly more popular on bilibili than youtube, so i guess they actually have a really really big hornet's nest with slightly more reason to get defensive than usual

the sad thing is taiwan, from anecdotal experience, actually cares a lot about vtubers too. i can think of a couple of notable taiwan-based indie vtubers, one of which experienced dramatic channel growth specifically after moving to there

also the translator situation is still weird to me because while I never personally knew any of them, a number of them like Iyger i recognise from certain anime fansubbing groups...

which may be why i have next to no respect for him

Most Hololive members get the bulk of their revenue from youtube (most are at 10%~ bilibili), so several unfortunate examples aside like Suisei, they would be okay even if all of them got banned.

The biggest tragedy would be losing Hololive's China-based crew. Artia is great.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObtSn2EONGQ

A collab stream between all the first gen of HololiveEN

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsRxQMFY0j4

I didn't realise they did collab streams on this channel as well >_>

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Really want to see a hololive among us stream

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Coco and haachama suspended for 3 weeks for having the audacity to mention the existence Taiwan on stream. What a fucking joke.

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that's a crappy solution but I don't know what a good one would have been, since it's well into "safety risk" territory

and as I understand it there's actual level international legal stuff involved maybe too?

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Boooo, was looking forward to Aki showing up on next week's Meme review.
Will Miko at least be back within that timeframe?

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I guess I can't blame Cover too much, if they don't suspend them the hololive CN streamers would probably lose their careers or even worse, never underestimate what China is capable of

This is the price you pay for doing business with China, a mob with a huge persecution complex that throws tantrums at everything remotely offensive to their jingoistic views. I don't know if other vtuber companies have a CN branch but they really need to think hard on whether it's worth tapping into that market.

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nijisanji really dodged a bullet by largely not using bilibili at all huh

(and fortunately nobody else is big enough (financially or structurally) to go global like that. there are some groups that depend heavily on chinese popularity, such as Hanayori, but they generally only have a handful of members each time)

Cn branch aside, I'm not actually sure who are the top performing jp talents on that Railgun site.

I assume Fubuki and Aqua?

I don't even know how Chinese popularity metrics are measured because during every League of Legends worlds tournament it comes up as a thing because there's not a straight answer for viewership numbers.

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I think I heard Suisei and Aki mentioned?

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voltch posted...

Cn branch aside, I'm not actually sure who are the top performing jp talents on that Railgun site.

I assume Fubuki and Aqua?

I don't even know how Chinese popularity metrics are measured because during every League of Legends worlds tournament it comes up as a thing because there's not a straight answer for viewership numbers.

https://vtbs.moe sub metrics here, you can watch the fall of hololive there in real time

donation metrics i can't remember links (the methods may be outdated anyway) but i think it's out there somewhere. the person that does those monthly summary videos may know at least

view metrics lol who knows

in any case cn branch is struggling hard there even, most haven't reached 200k and are actively being overtaken by non-cn members (well, they were anyway...)

also kagura nana and kano are unstoppable there

Hmmm, manageable losses, their youtube momentum is strong enough anyway.
I feel that when Haachama/Coco return they'll ride a strong wave of non-CN support.

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Artia is successful on twitch so her metrics are different. Not sure about the other CN dudes

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well that reddit's a dumpster fire right now.

but a funny one with some good memes in it. leave it to china to make shit political because heaven forbid taiwan be considered an independent country in metrics.


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honestly, the whole thing caught me off guard cos Subaru gives analytics updates too.
Does she just completely sidestep Taiwan and only focus on western countries?

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https://i.imgur.com/s9XlUTt.jpg


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it's gonna suck in three weeks when coco and haato graduate but I am psyched for holo-en 2 with coco kaine and red heart and [insert appropriate jokes about holo-CN here]

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just who is that masked vtuber?
the world will never know.


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If they kick out coco and haachama I'll literally stop watching anything from hololive. She's the one who made hololive popular in the west, and it makes no financial sense anyway. Honestly unless they sell off their CN branch this will happen again and again, it's just not worth it trying to please millions of special nationalist snowflakes while pissing off everyone not from China at the same time.

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From controversies in Japan, to controversies in China, I'm hoping HoloEn doesn't complete the trifecta and draws the cancel crowd out west in the future.

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I'm surprised they haven't already honestly

although I do think there was some sort of kerfuffle but I think that was just onlyfans types being jealous, or something?

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Bah gawd that's kson's music!

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it's okay she'd different.
she'll be saying good afternoon motherfuckers, clearly a different person.

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Wanglicious posted...

well that reddit's a dumpster fire right now.

yeah it absolutely sucks right now. so bad that I'm actually looking at board 8 again.

full of wannabe LARPing paladins who think they are gonna "protecc" everyone by posting hateful and inflammatory comments all over the place, when that's actually likely to make the situation even MORE volatile and cause even MORE problems.

voltch posted...

Does she just completely sidestep Taiwan and only focus on western countries?

people have noted that

1. she has never said Taiwan when reading off her analytics
2. there's been a few times she pauses when reading through the list, and seems to skip over some countries and stats

subaru kinda pauses a lot while talking anyway so it might not mean anything, but it's likely that the girls are all very well aware of what they're not supposed to say and subaru has been avoiding it.

voltch posted...

I assume Fubuki and Aqua?

I've heard Fubuki and Aqua are among the three most popular vtubers in china, period. though I haven't seen a source for that.

suisei as mentioned is popular in china. most of them have at least some portion of their audience over there, any of the girls who do bilibili exclusive streams would be worth mentioning but that list is also pretty substantial. various holo girls have also done crossover events with azur lane and things like that, which would also be in jeapordy.

holoCN goes without saying -- not only would thier careers be at risk but potentially their safety as well as their families.

I like Coco, but I also like many of the other hololive, holostars, holoID and holoCN vtubers.

if the choice is between Coco taking a 3 week suspension or dozens of people losing their jobs, I think the choice is pretty obvious. although the situation still sucks and is still really unfair. they aren't completing bending over backwards and firing her or anything like that. and it's generally been their MO in the past to suspend talents for a while so that the anti hatred will die down and the controversy will blow over.


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I think it would help this situation a lot if Aloe wasn't real fresh in everybody's minds

Coco I think is tough enough to survive this nonsense in some fashion but I'm worried about Haato. And, y'know, the people actually physically in China.

but yeah what do you mean there are problems that can't be solved by PUNCHING IN THE FACE like an AMERICAN YEAAAAAHHHHHH

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she's an american dragon, she'll be fine.

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the negative attention toward haachama basically already started to die down when it was redirected to Coco. all people need to do is STFU, stop posting pro taiwan or anti taiwan memes all over her twitter, chat, etc. and the situation will blow over.

notice how she wasn't suspended right away, but Cover was forced to act when the situation became increasingly more volatile? I was in Coco's free chat a little over 12 hours ago (edit: actually it was probably more than 12 hours. it's just way later in the day than I realized. and since the free chat is gone now i can't check the exact time.) people there were spamming political garbage on both sides. the suspension announcement was released shortly after that and I honestly don't think it was a coincidence.

the aloe comparison is also particularly frustrating because people are demanding that Cover do a better job of protecting their employees. like, that is EXACTLY what they are doing here. they are protecting all of their employees rather than just throwing over a dozen people under the bus because 'lol coco can make a million dollars in american superchats anyways'

Coco is not the only employee at CoverCorp

(not ranting at you, I know you mostly agree with me, just venting in general over the stupidity of the fans who are making the situation worse)

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Wanglicious posted...

she's an american dragon, she'll be fine.

I made a Bryan Danielson joke once already today and I'll heckin' do it again

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i think genshin impact is out now

come to think of it, it obviously had the capability to become a big hit game with vtubers presently in the context of what kinds of games they currently play (craftopia etc), but I can't help but wonder if the controversy is helping this game's playrate

since looking at the vtbs site earlier, pretty much everybody got hit by fallout on bilibili (even people entirely unrelated to hololive), so playing a game like this could help recoup their losses there

after all, i'm not sure if 56 vtubers or anything near it have ever played honkai impact...

kiara said she can't stream it so i assume everyone is hesitant to play.

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https://youtu.be/N9MtQLl2GMk

Tom Bombadil posted...

I have heard bad things about Hololive Moments, especially now that they're jettisoning their Coco content

Gonna be honest though I usually don't pay tons of attention to who the translator is and just see what pops up in my recommendations that looks fun

Guess we don't have to worry about hololive moments anymore.

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yeah. hololive moments has always been very questionable. from the start they were known to just retranslate content other channels already did, often with worse translations for more views, while most had the decency to acknowledge others efforts. you could basically say they're like the machinima of vtuber translation channels

one i respect a decent amount is lae, who iirc currently seems to watch the semi-new Nijisanji member Suo Sango a fair bit (she's got a pretty unique strong healing vibe so fair)

also, i don't think he's ever done any hololive tls, but the dedicated Hanayori Girls Dorm translator Keni does good work too

oh yeah, and i want to give a special acknowledgement to Shonver, who provides subs for various music videos

He's not a translator himself, but uses fancy effects on them i had no idea youtube captions were capable of (eg. a lot of the stuff in this https://youtu.be/sF6ySdNimks)

He's got a playlist here https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRoi3sK81x983YTqKqECZeEcJd9Y1fmay

still, overall, i don't really like any translator channels because of the negative impact they have on the scene, since they're the ones that made hololive popular, and are now pretty much only translating hololive (or hololive-adjacent) members because they were made popular. it's almost like a rally effect in a contest here, except if it never ended

this year there have been about 15000 english translated clips posted and maybe 3% of them aren't of hololive members

ANYWAY i forgot i was going to post a couple of things on so i guess i will now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUMBqHJQyPQ the aforementioned suo sango
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXsXQSd_wjo jitomi monoe from VOMS playin obra dinn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IxQk5Q1VoU rare song stream from honeystrap's mico starts in a few mins