Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 320: Comin' Out of the Woodward

(+) Yeah! (+)

McConnell's political skill is overrated because literally the only "skill" he needs is to say "no." That's what happens when one party just doesn't believe in governing. It's ultimately not that difficult to just not do anything.

When he actually had to govern instead of just obstruct he passed through a tax cut that led to the strongest disapproval ratings pre-COVID and failed in embarrassing fashion to repeal the ACA (an actual skilled leader doesn't call the vote unless they know they have the votes.) His stacking of the judiciary is a rollover from his previous obstruction of Obama leaving an absolutely unprecedented number of vacancies and then just simple math of having more votes than the Democrats.

Don't mythologize the guy.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Keep in mind it isn't exactly easy to fill a court opening quickly. Even with a majority, it still took 70 days to install Gorsuch. With less than 50 days until the election and having to likely wait a week until a nominee is even revealed I don't think they can get it done before the election.

It's more will they do it during the lame duck period regardless of the election outcome.

They can get it done in a week if they want. The filibuster is gone. They had no rush with Gorsuch.

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TheRock1525 posted...

There's no way Roe v Wade doesn't get overturned. If evangelical Christians give Republicans a 6-3 majority on the SC and it's still not enough, they are absolutely gonna be disillusioned with the party.

Now will you still be able to get an abortion in the US? Yes because it will be kicked back to the states. It's just going to be awful if you live in a red state.

Theres gonna have to be a well funded network of people willing to help those seeking abortion to make the necessary travel

I do actually think that would materialize
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I am sorry,

Not like his officially stated job of fair job.

I mean the job he wanted to do.

I can see how I used confusing language.

Believe it nor someone like Roberts doesn't serve at the whims of the people who vote Republican. His record is not something I like but also I would be shocked if he struck down roe v wade

I don't think Roberts would strike down Roe v Wade, but I don't trust any of the other conservatives not to do so and you'd need one more.

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McConnell's skill revolves around being evil and not paying the price.

But his effectiveness as a leader is definitely up for debate.

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Roberts doesn't need to vote to strike down Roe v Wade.

That's what a 6-3 court does for you. It makes the swing vote Neil fucking Gorsuch.

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I just don't see why Mitch wouldn't rush the nominee through with how Pelosi has been acting with the relief bill.

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Corrik7 posted...

If it was after he lost the election, he would be a lame duck as Obama was. If it is before the election, he is not a lame duck like Obama was.

Hey youve said yourself in these topics that Trump has already lost <_<
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Gorsuch probably doesn't strike it down either. Dude literally voted pro-LGBTQ <_<. Hard to find too many people who are pro LGBTQ but go "yeah but abortion tho"

Also wasn't trying to make him mythical, just that Mitch from his perspective is very happy.

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I wouldn't expect them to strike down a ruling. But I would expect them to chip away at pieces.

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Corrik7 posted...

If it was after he lost the election, he would be a lame duck as Obama was. If it is before the election, he is not a lame duck like Obama was.

Also even if Trump WON the election, he would be a lame duck as Obama was
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TheRock1525 posted...

There's no way Roe v Wade doesn't get overturned. If evangelical Christians give Republicans a 6-3 majority on the SC and it's still not enough, they are absolutely gonna be disillusioned with the party.

Now will you still be able to get an abortion in the US? Yes because it will be kicked back to the states. It's just going to be awful if you live in a red state.

Here we go again. I heard this just what a year ago with Kavanaugh. Conservative judges vote on precedent. The Roe V Wade precedent is set. Roe v Wade and LGBT rights are going nowhere ever.

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Corrik7 posted...

If it was after he lost the election, he would be a lame duck as Obama was. If it is before the election, he is not a lame duck like Obama was.

Oh come on, that's not a meaningful distinction. If that's the rationale then he'd claim he was justified in refusing to fill an appointment any time in a president's second term (and do really you buy for a second that McConnell wouldn't have pulled the exact same shit if Obama could have run for another term?)

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chip away at pieces I could see happening.

Much more concerning is things like healthcare, taxes, and government oversight being withered away.

Much bigger things to worry about than abortion tbh

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Also this was probably distraction enough to prevent any passing of a COVID relief bill.

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Roe won't be overturned, but they'll erode women's rights to the point where it might as well be. At least in Red States, where getting an abortion will be as hard as getting Mitch McConnell to not be a hypocritical jackass.

LGBT Rights will also be eroded. Especially LGBT Protections.

These are two major issues that affect people's every day lives, so of course they're the ones that are first brought up.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Oh come on, that's not a meaningful distinction. If that's the rationale then he'd claim he was justified in refusing to fill an appointment any time in a president's second term (and do really you buy for a second that McConnell wouldn't have pulled the exact same shit if Obama could have run for another term?)

Also, the opposing party isn't in control of the Senate during the lame duck election either.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Roe won't be overturned, but they'll erode women's rights to the point where it might as well be. At least in Red States, where getting an abortion will be as hard as getting Mitch McConnell to not be a hypocritical jackass.

LGBT Rights will also be eroded. Especially LGBT Protections.

These are two major issues that affect people's every day lives, so of course they're the ones that are first brought up.

You do realize LGBT rights got a huge expansion in June, right?

Like LGBT rights especially are very close to my heart for many reasons, and that's not really the issue here. That is more an issue at local levels and even then the Supreme Court effectively was like "yeah but no."

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LGBTQ is not nearly as hot button as abortion. There are far, far, far more single issue abortion voters than single issue gay marriage voters.

It's why the GOP has largely abandoned active opposition to gay marriage. But to this day they still talk about Roe v Wade, and all Gorsuch has to do is be a constitutional literalist and say "there can be no federal law on abortion" and let states decide. Which he likely would.

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Corrik7 posted...

Here we go again. I heard this just what a year ago with Kavanaugh. Conservative judges vote on precedent. The Roe V Wade precedent is set. Roe v Wade and LGBT rights are going nowhere ever.

Last year the four non-Roberts judges voted to overturn an abortion precedent that had been set literally four years prior:

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/29/21306895/supreme-court-abortion-chief-justice-john-roberts-stephen-breyer-june-medical-russo

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Isn't Roe v Wade technically not really about abortion at all? They won't overturn it, they'll just find another reason to allow abortion bans.
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Xeybozn posted...

Isn't Roe v Wade technically not really about abortion at all? They won't overturn it, they'll just find another reason to allow abortion bans.

No it was literally about abortion lol

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Corrik7 posted...

Here we go again. I heard this just what a year ago with Kavanaugh. Conservative judges vote on precedent. The Roe V Wade precedent is set. Roe v Wade and LGBT rights are going nowhere ever.

Roberts wants to preserve the integrity of the court because he is both now a swing vote and the chief justice.

When he's no longer the swing vote, that completely changes his ability to maintain said integrity.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Last year the four non-Roberts judges voted to overturn an abortion precedent that had been set literally four years prior:

yeah that was the case where roberts literally wrote the majority opinion (with the liberal wing) as like "fucking come on guys we heard this exact same case four years ago what are you doing?"

and iirc when i was reading and posting summaries of the various opinions, the one where thomas was openly calling for roe to be overturned

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abortion rights have already been getting eroded for years

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Last year the four non-Roberts judges voted to overturn an abortion precedent that had been set literally four years prior:

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/29/21306895/supreme-court-abortion-chief-justice-john-roberts-stephen-breyer-june-medical-russo

Look I know 2020 has lasted an eternity but this was literally only 3 months ago <_<
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Jakyl25 posted...

Look I know 2020 has lasted an eternity but this was literally only 3 months ago <_<

that too

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This entire situation is a result of the failure of the Democratic party. Ginsberg for not retiring when she had the chance (sounds callous but when you're old as fuck and you refuse to retire in this kind of scenario, you're taking a big risk), Obama for not naming a justice when he had the chance. This isn't as bad as Trump getting another term, but it's close, AND Trump's poll numbers will surge now anyway.

There's your September Surprise.

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https://twitter.com/grylxndr/status/1307102597250256897?s=21

Thank God for that Memories to last a lifetiem.

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Whoops

Fuck

Anyway, MITT is apparently a no!

https://twitter.com/JimDabakis/status/1307120855454044160

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KamikazePotato posted...

Obama for not naming a justice when he had the chance.

...Who was Merrick Garland?

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

No it was literally about abortion lol

Well yeah, but the reasoning wasn't based on the Constitution saying anything about abortion and it's been cited as precedent in unrelated matters. Overturning Roe would mess up a ton of non-abortion things.
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18 days ago.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Thank God for that Memories to last a lifetiem.

I'm sure the cancer wouldn't have killed her for another couple months if only she hadn't officiated that wedding.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Obama for not naming a justice when he had the chance.

Wut

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xp1337 posted...

...Who was Merrick Garland?

Let me rephrase: failed by not just ramming the pick through instead of leaving it to the whims of fate

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The scary thing, for me, is that once the cons get their preferred Supreme Court and eliminate Roe v. Wade, they'll still need red meat for their evangelicals, and that leaves attacks on the LGBTQ+ community ripe for passing that baton.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Let me rephrase: failed by not just ramming the pick through instead of leaving it to the whims of fate

Uhhh

How do you propose he do that?
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KamikazePotato posted...

Let me rephrase: failed by not just ramming the pick through instead of leaving it to the whims of fate

How could he have rammed the pick through? The GOP controlled the Senate.

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Tony coming in hot with another horrible take.

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Corrik7 posted...

If it was after he lost the election, he would be a lame duck as Obama was. If it is before the election, he is not a lame duck like Obama was.

Lame duck literally just means your replacement has already been elected.

In March 2016, Obama's replacement had not been elected. Hell, both primaries were still going on.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Whoops

Fuck

Anyway, MITT is apparently a no!

https://twitter.com/JimDabakis/status/1307120855454044160

Alexander and Murkowski...

https://twitter.com/JosephSzymanski/status/1307116219611447296
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1307120986479906816

*note however, Murkowski's comments are from earlier today before it was announced to be a reality

last one though............... yeah no I don't have any hope for Collins

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Welp

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1307129813816291329

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LordoftheMorons posted...

How could he have rammed the pick through? The GOP controlled the Senate.

I think there was the galaxy brain play I once described where there was like a 30 minute window where the class of Senators whose terms ended in 2016 were out but before the class elected in 2016 were sworn in where you actually had a Democratic majority and there were some takes that hypothetically you could just hold the vote right then.

...I don't think it was vigorously tested in terms of "would that actually work?" (i.e. could a talking filibuster ruin the entire scheme?)

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metroid composite posted...

Lame duck literally just means your replacement has already been elected.

In March 2016, Obama's replacement had not been elected. Hell, both primaries were still going on.

Unless he could have a third term, he was a lame duck.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Welp

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1307129813816291329

woof, a strong denial is terrifying

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Welp

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1307129813816291329

He would be kicked out of the Republican party and have to go independent or Democrat. Anyone who costs them a supreme court justice is getting nothing ever again in the Senate from Republicans.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Theres gonna have to be a well funded network of people willing to help those seeking abortion to make the necessary travel

I do actually think that would materialize

It's also just a drug which can be made in your kitchen; instructions are available online.

That said, in states where this has come up, if you take your own abortion drug, and then there are complications and you go to the hospital, you can be thrown in prison.

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RIP, Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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