Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 320: Comin' Out of the Woodward

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wouldnt want anyone to panic
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https://twitter.com/sciam/status/1305854127721910275?s=21
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The American response to the pandemic is so reminiscent of a disaster movie it's not even funny.

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Never again can we criticize zombie movies by saying the outbreak would be easily containable.

Based on 2020 we would have people getting bit to own the libs.

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A friend of mine just moved to Ireland last month, and she said that everybody there thinks the US is a joke now.

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Well Americans basically view the rest of the world as a joke so meh?

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FFDragon posted...

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1304971015647301632

okay orange man you've pushed me back into voting biden

He tends to be a clown in most cases, but this is something he seems actually passionate, focused, and serious about. If he gets re-elected, I would imagine the first thing he's going to do when his 2nd term starts is repeal the 22nd Amendment.

Tag

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Entitled.

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RaidenGarai posted...

A friend of mine just moved to Ireland last month, and she said that everybody there thinks the US is a joke now.

I mean...people in Europe and Canada making jokes about Americans goes back as far as I can remember.

But before people did it out of intimidation, out of not wanting to see their neighbours moving to the US. Because people did move to the US in relatively large numbers (I moved to the US from Canada, during George W Bush's presidency no less). In the 90s there was this serious fear that most smart Canadians were going to move to the US (and smart Canadians were moving to he US in large numbers at the time).

The feeling is different now. The people I know who move between both countries are mostly drifting in the other direction. People with dual citizenship who are now shopping for real estate in Canada. I'm spending an extended several month stay in Canada myself.

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armitage999 posted...

FFDragon posted...

He tends to be a clown in most cases, but this is something he seems actually passionate, focused, and serious about. If he gets re-elected, I would imagine the first thing he's going to do when his 2nd term starts is repeal the 22nd Amendment.

Yeah Trump would absolutely adore getting a third term. I don't think he would actually enjoy it, just like he doesn't enjoy things now, but he loves the *idea* of it.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Yeah Trump would absolutely adore getting a third term.

lmao what makes you think he'd be content to stop at 3

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"Hes now president for life, president for life. And hes great, Trump said, according to audio of excerpts of Trumps remarks at a closed-door fundraiser in Florida aired by CNN. And look, he was able to do that. I think its great. Maybe well have to give that a shot someday, Trump said to cheers and applause from supporters on Chinese President Xi Jinping.

metroid composite posted...

I mean...people in Europe and Canada making jokes about Americans goes back as far as I can remember.

But before people did it out of intimidation, out of not wanting to see their neighbours moving to the US. Because people did move to the US in relatively large numbers (I moved to the US from Canada, during George W Bush's presidency no less). In the 90s there was this serious fear that most smart Canadians were going to move to the US (and smart Canadians were moving to he US in large numbers at the time).

The feeling is different now. The people I know who move between both countries are mostly drifting in the other direction. People with dual citizenship who are now shopping for real estate in Canada. I'm spending an extended several month stay in Canada myself.

I envy you! I've only been to Canada once for a few hours, and it was like 25 years ago. The little bit that I saw was beautiful

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RaidenGarai posted...

I envy you! I've only been to Canada once for a few hours, and it was like 25 years ago. The little bit that I saw was beautiful

It's beautiful, the healthcare is good, the politics are...not perfect, but a lot less polarized (almost no Canadian I know self-identifies with one party--most change their votes based on whichever party makes a better sales pitch that election).

But if you want to be in the top echelons of a field, most of the time historically you're looking at the US over Canada.

Like...my sister is a physicist, right now she's at the Princeton Physics institute (the one where Einstein used to hang out). The US...and specifically the west coast has Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon, and most of the top end game development jobs in North America (the game development jobs being the draw for me). I have to imagine people who are looking into acting would be drawn either to Hollywood for screen acting, or New York City for live theatre acting.

It's hard to imagine any of these institutions leaving for Canada. It's more that people who are able to move between countries are...(some of us) taking a break right now from the US in the hopes that the US stops fucking up.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

lmao what makes you think he'd be content to stop at 3

He wants to be president eve when he's a drooling mess in a wheelchair, he'll go as long as he possibly can.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

"Hes now president for life, president for life. And hes great, Trump said, according to audio of excerpts of Trumps remarks at a closed-door fundraiser in Florida aired by CNN. And look, he was able to do that. I think its great. Maybe well have to give that a shot someday, Trump said to cheers and applause from supporters on Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Toughest on China.

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metroid composite posted...

It's beautiful, the healthcare is good, the politics are...not perfect, but a lot less polarized (almost no Canadian I know self-identifies with one party--most change their votes based on whichever party makes a better sales pitch that election).

But if you want to be in the top echelons of a field, most of the time historically you're looking at the US over Canada.

Like...my sister is a physicist, right now she's at the Princeton Physics institute (the one where Einstein used to hang out). The US...and specifically the west coast has Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon, and most of the top end game development jobs in North America (the game development jobs being the draw for me). I have to imagine people who are looking into acting would be drawn either to Hollywood for screen acting, or New York City for live theatre acting.

It's hard to imagine any of these institutions leaving for Canada. It's more that people who are able to move between countries are...(some of us) taking a break right now from the US in the hopes that the US stops fucking up.

The numbers for international students at US universities were apparently declining pretty substantially even before covid. I really hope that reverses after Trump's gone; one of the US's biggest strengths was our ability to attract the best from all over the world (and have many of them stay here after graduating).

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People don't go where they aren't wanted, and foreigners aren't going to feel welcome in America for a long time, even after Trump is gone. Too many deplorables that have replaced their dog whistles with megaphones.

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Plus every other developed country has better Healthcare tbqh.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Plus every other developed country has better Healthcare tbqh.

And fewer mass shootings and political violence. (Obviously this is just the result of selective news coverage, but I've spoken to a few people living outside the US for whom the US is starting to sound like a war zone).

Still, there are definitely people who will go where they already have relatives, and go where they can get jobs in their field, and the US seems likely to still have plenty of both those things.

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Trump is saying the Republican Party is too nice and should be meaner.

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RaidenGarai posted...

A friend of mine just moved to Ireland last month, and she said that everybody there thinks the US is a joke now.

I bet they would say that once a single jet subjugates their country or it got blown out of existence by bombs/missiles. *rolls eyes*

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Corrik7 posted...

I bet they would say that once a single jet subjugates their country or it got blown out of existence by bombs/missiles. *rolls eyes*

wtf is this post

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Did someone hijack your account, Corrik?

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What.

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/calls-for-new-coronavirus-aid-heat-up-in-us-house/ar-BB193QKj

Being sent off the plank. Doesn't say what it does in the bill though that I have seen.

500 billion to state and local. Second check. Liability shield. 450 a week for like 8 weeks or something and up to 600 in replacement wages for 5 weeks or so after implemented.

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By late July, he offered a $1 trillion bill that many of his fellow Republicans rejected, only to then put a $300 billion bill up for a vote that Democrats blocked as insufficient. Meanwhile, Pelosi had offered to drop her aid demand to $2.4 trillion and the White House signaled a willingness to accept $1.3 trillion.

This is very telling. When there was no deal, the Democrats moved their offer down to compromise, and Mitch....also moved his offer down, to maximize the gains he can get from this negotiation. Republicans are about winning, Democrats are about fairness.

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Harris says Biden will decriminalize marijuana if elected.

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red sox 777 posted...

This is very telling. When there was no deal, the Democrats moved their offer down to compromise, and Mitch....also moved his offer down, to maximize the gains he can get from this negotiation. Republicans are about winning, Democrats are about fairness.

glad you admit that republicans are completely amoral and will do anything to win!

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

glad you admit that republicans are completely amoral and will do anything to win!

Just means he doesn't know what is going on.

Mitch has never been negotiating. It has been a negotiating between the WH and Dems. WH has raised their offer. Dems have lowered their offer sorta, they just changed dates not amounts.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

glad you admit that republicans are completely amoral and will do anything to win!

I've been saying this for years.

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red sox 777 posted...

I've been saying this for years.

but not only are you saying this, you defend it?

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

but not only are you saying this, you defend it?

A lot of people have taken the position that the Republicans are immoral, as opposed to amoral. I've been advocating for the position that they are amoral.

I do think that in many circumstances it is better to have a smart government that's amoral and is on our side, than a stupid government which is moral (and the Democrats would be more like immoral than moral in my eyes).

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He's been defending it for years also. To red sox politics is a game to be won and nothing else.
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red sox 777 posted...

government that's amoral and is on our side

spoiler: This is impossible.
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How is taking the stance of "We want to help the people less" being "on our side"

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Dems absolutely have been pieces of shit this negotiation just as much if not worse. They could easily pass a bill that gives people something now and then do another after the election. They are instead worried about image not the people. I don't see where morals fall into that either.

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StealThisSheen posted...

How is taking the stance of "We want to help the people less" being "on our side"

Because the people are also the ones paying for it. So it could hurt them. That said, these things are wrapped up in so many layers of 4d chess that you need to calculate many moves deep to evaluate them.

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pyresword posted...

spoiler: This is impossible.

Well ok I guess I should take this back in the absolute sense because ideally we could set up a government where there's sufficient accountability, transparency, and oversight such that amoral politicians will naturally be on "our side" since if they are not they will no longer hold power.

I do not think we're close to that point right now.
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pyresword posted...

Well ok I guess I should take this back in the absolute sense because ideally we could set up a government where there's sufficient accountability, transparency, and oversight such that amoral politicians will naturally be on "our side" since if they are not they will no longer hold power.

I do not think we're close to that point right now.

The goodness of this setup depends in large part of the virtue of the people. If the people are good, an amoral government serving the people will do good things. If the people are evil, an amoral government serving them will do evil things.

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https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/response-to-us-tariffs-on-canadian-aluminum-to-come-today-trudeau.html

Aluminum tariffs never made sense right now because there is an aluminum shortage right now.

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Corrik7 posted...

Dems absolutely have been pieces of shit this negotiation just as much if not worse. They could easily pass a bill that gives people something now and then do another after the election. They are instead worried about image not the people. I don't see where morals fall into that either.

If they give in and let a shitty bill through now, that's all there is unless Dems win the senate, because Republicans will just "We already gave too much as it is." There is no "later." And so far, all of the Republican bills have been shitty.

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red sox 777 posted...

The goodness of this setup depends in large part of the virtue of the people. If the people are good, an amoral government serving the people will do good things. If the people are evil, an amoral government serving them will do evil things.

spoilers: people fucking suck so having an amoral government doesn't work for shit. next.

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StealThisSheen posted...

If they give in and let a shitty bill through now, that's all there is unless Dems win the senate, because Republicans will just "We already gave too much as it is." There is no "later."

Absolutely. Just as now in January if Dems win the Senate, the Republicans are gonna filibuster any deal because "the Dems showed no deal was needed when they filibustered us in September".

Dems messaging should have been we are gonna take what we can give you now, but it woulda been more if we had our way and will be more if you elect us this coming year. Instead they acted like pieces of shit and Republicans are gonna look justified when they do the same next year filibustering it back.

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Corrik7 posted...

Dems absolutely have been pieces of shit this negotiation just as much if not worse. They could easily pass a bill that gives people something now and then do another after the election. They are instead worried about image not the people. I don't see where morals fall into that either.

Unless they win the Senate and nuke the fillibuster they can certainly not count on being able to pass some of the stuff they (rightly) see as necessary to respond to covid, such as aid to the states (without which the public is going to feel a lot more pain as states are forced to main gigantic cuts and raise taxes).

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But a Republican government is both immoral and unintelligent
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Corrik7 posted...

Absolutely. Just as now in January if Dems win the Senate, the Republicans are gonna filibuster any deal because "the Dems showed no deal was needed when they filibustered us in September".

Dems messaging should have been we are gonna take what we can give you now, but it woulda been more if we had our way and will be more if you elect us this coming year. Instead they acted like pieces of shit and Republicans are gonna look justified when they do the same next year filibustering it back.

They're only gonna look justified to people that think the Republicans can do no wrong to begin with. Anybody with a brain can see that the Republicans are only offering half of a bandaid for a gunshot wound. Accepting that half a bandaid so that Republicans can later "Did you even USE all of that bandaid we gave you?" is stupid.

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StealThisSheen posted...

They're only gonna look justified to people that think the Republicans can do no wrong to begin with. Anybody with a brain can see that the Republicans are only offering half of a bandaid for a gunshot wound. Accepting that half a bandaid so that Republicans can later "Did you even USE all of that bandaid we gave you?" is stupid.

The White House offer is hardly a bandaid. And I always love when the Dem offer is considered essential but anything less as not. Anyone can see the Dem proposal has partisan fluff.

And, nah, it's not hard to equate filibustered a relief bill for the people with filibustered a relief bill for the people. You can always go back for more. You can't really ever take some away after given really.

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StealThisSheen posted...

They're only gonna look justified to people that think the Republicans can do no wrong to begin with. Anybody with a brain can see that the Republicans are only offering half of a bandaid for a gunshot wound. Accepting that half a bandaid so that Republicans can later "Did you even USE all of that bandaid we gave you?" is stupid.

Yeah. This is the reason we're in this mess, Corrik. Dems, ever caring about the population, rushed to get any sort of stimulus way back in the first half of the year. And they got the bare minimum of basic human decency, while Republicans got a bunch of unnecessary shit towards their party's platform. And now, when the people need help again, Republicans are pulling the same shit and expecting the Democrats to bow down.

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