Poll of the Day > What's better: Prison or Homelessness?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Context: A very poor and starving person can go into a police station and start peeing on the front desk... in return, they get food, shelter, medical, even possibly entertainment as well as a social network through fellow prisoners.

On the other hand... freedom

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Freedom always beats being a captive. This isnt even a question

OhhhJa posted...

Freedom always beats being a captive. This isnt even a question

I gave context so lets slide it up... ... how many days until dying of dehydration before you consider prison?

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Lokarin posted...

I gave context so lets slide it up... ... how many days until dying of dehydration before you consider prison?

Infinity

On a very cold winter night, peeing on an officer's desk could save a homeless person from freezing to death on the streets. And keep in mind that they'd likely only spend a few nights (if even that) in a cell before being back on the streets. It's not really the same thing as a full-on prison sentence. For starters, they probably wouldn't end up in prison at all -- they'd just be in jail. However, a homeless guy peeing in a cop station more than likely would just be kicked back onto the streets regardless.

And honestly, the problem with prison isn't simply the captivity, but the prison population itself. Confinement is the least of your worries.

Lokarin posted... I gave context so lets slide it up... ... how many days until dying of dehydration before you consider prison?

Dehydration generally isn't going to be an issue, it's going to be either starvation or the elements. However, you can illegally stay out of the elements in a lot of places.

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In the US homelessness isn't nearly as big of a problem (usually) as many other places. There are food banks, churches that give out food, there are shelters, and you can just travel to a place like CA/WA/Oregon etc where there is no danger from elements.

As far as entertainment there are TONS of ways to get that very cheaply. Planet fitness for instance offers a $10 membership per month, are often open 24/7, have bikes with TV's in front of them (so you can just sit and watch), many have free coffee/tea, they give free pizza on the first monday of each month and free donuts on the second tuesday (Which makes up for the $10 right there).

Airports also have free wifi (so you can surf the net, watch netflix etc), and even free movies/tv (southwest airlines, you just need to log into it there and can watch their entire movie selection). There are bathrooms everywhere and plenty of places to drink water, just bring a backpack with food and you could stay there for a week at a time before venturing out.

Hospitals not only have waiting rooms with free coffee/tea etc, tvs etc, but most have surgery waiting rooms with more options and comfortable places to sleep while waiting for someone in surgery etc (I saw homeless people sleeping there while waiting for my wife to get out of surgery a few times).

Libraries also have free computers with internet, obviously tons of books etc, many game stores have free board games you can play etc, and if you have the money for a cell phone plane for $50 you can get unlimited service/data which means you can watch endless netflix etc on your phone anywhere you go.

If you can get enough money to buy a van you can also put a cot in there and sleep for free, no rent, and if you save up money you can convert it, add solar panels and a switch unit to allow you to run electronics inside (tv/ps4/laptop etc). They also have wireless internet (not that it's needed with free internet so many places).

All of that and more is available to homeless people, so why would you go to jail/prison? Worst case move to a better state and don't be homeless where it becomes freezing at night etc.

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Funny I actually debated this with some guys I was locked up with once (county/city jail)

Being in Jail Pros - (or 'better' yet prison)

You're cut off from the rest of the world for the most part, get (if things are going well inside) 3 meals, hot showers and maybe some rec time/TV

Being in Jail Cons (no pun intended)

You're gonna get treated like a nobody, you gotta be careful around other inmates, esp if there is alot of gang members, and you got to be careful of COs...you're completely at their mercy if they come in with a bad mood. Also you still gotta go to court and deal with Judges, Lawyers, ETC

Being Homeless Pros

Don't have to worry about rent, can go anywhere as you please not tied down to any particular job/family/etc

Being Homeless Cons

Finding somewhere decent safe and legal to sleep, worrying about getting attacked while sleeping, if you're homeless anywhere besides the South/Southwest gotta worry about the elements, people avoiding you like the plague, people thinking all Homeless are druggies or mentally ill, Homeless shelters are dangerous (some cases worse than prisons) Case workers/staff don't give a damn about them

So I dunno, but being homeless is really all about your hustle game. If you can manage to save up some money and keep steady food job work, then you can kinda get out of that predicament.

There is being homeless, pennyless and disabled etc, and then there is just being homeless mostly by choice.

Look rent is a freaking scam lol, seriously think about it. You can't rent a 1 bedroom most places for less then $1200 a month, that is freaking $40 a day!!! With the nat average being around $10 an hour, that means you need to work 4 hours EVERY day just to put a roof over your head. What does that roof give you? Convience and comfort, but, is it really worth 4 hours?

If you have a car/van, you can live in that fairly safely, be warm, even have electricity set up. You can get internet through satilite, or just use tons of free internet available everywhere (just drive near it). Heck you can also stay at AB&B's every so often and get internet passwords for them and just use them when parked nearby. Many places to eat/bars have free internet (and are opened late etc).

As far as power you have splitters for car engines, solar panels, and external backup batteries (new they can cost a bit, but you can get enough to run for days without charging used for a few hundred). You could even go extreme and get an actual generator (they you can literally drive into the woods for weeks and still have power).

When I was 16, I graduated HS on my birthday and as a nice present and reward, my mother kicked me out (Even though she got section 8 based on me and my brother living there and neither of us did anymore). I had friends, and people I could have lived with, but I hermit up when hurt so I lived on rooftops in Fremont CA for a year. I swam in swiming pools every day to keep clean, I did not look homeless at all. I rented a storage locker for $50 a month that I kept my clothes, books from the library I was not reading yet, etc in. Nobody ever bugged me because nobody climbs up onto roof tops lol (not doable by everyone, I was a VERY good climber).

Point is, over all even though I isolated a ton, it was the least stressful time in my life. I spent the least amount of money on expenses (and food tbh, I was very conservative with my money), I played video games at nintendo stations at the mall, practiced juggling and read a ton. I freaking LOVED Dunkin Donuts as they were open 24 hours, well lit and had endless coffee for like $1 (I would go there to read late etc).

I never once asked for money (or got any), slept in a shelter, got food from a food line or bank etc, stole anything or used the restroom outside (other then porta potties etc when hiking etc).

That was FAR better than staying in a prison that is for sure. Even at my age now, I could still probably climb on most roofs if I wanted but it certainly wouldn't be as safe, but I also could easily use my car or (I'm selling my van), van to sleep in, which would make that obsolete and the entire process even easier.

I'm not advocating homelessness, but yeah, it's waaaay better than prison, and it's kinda...almost better then renting anywhere your having to work 4+ hours a day to stay.

I mean, it's totally possible after utilities, internet, transportation to and from work etc, that your actually spending 5-6 hours EVERY SINGLE DAY just paying for the roof over your head. Not food, that is seperate, but without that cost, food is not really bad at all. you can easily live on $10 a day (you can live on less as well, but you can eat very well on $10), which is $300 or less per month if your not paying that rent. You can make that doing day labor 2-3 times a MONTH at this point most places....on your schedule, and honestly just do it every few months for a week or so and spend the money slowly.

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If youre a bottom prison might have its upside. But Im gonna risk homelessness.

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Homelessness. I could sleep under the stars easy enough and it's more possible for me to climb back up the ladder. Depending how long i'm in prison for I wouldn't have any freedom for a long time and there would be nothing I could do about it.

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wolfy42 posted...

you can just travel to a place like CA/WA/Oregon etc where there is no danger from elements.

Uh, there's a lot of danger from the elements in WA/ORE, they can get really cold. And parts of CA will have extreme heat issues.

wolfy42 posted...

Hospitals not only have waiting rooms with free coffee/tea etc,

Trying to think of the last time I saw a hospital with free coffee and I'm drawing a blank.

wolfy42 posted...

If you can get enough money to buy a van you can also put a cot in there and sleep for free, no rent, and if you save up money you can convert it, add solar panels and a switch unit to allow you to run electronics inside (tv/ps4/laptop etc). They also have wireless internet (not that it's needed with free internet so many places).

You also have to be careful about that, since a lot of places frown on that.

wolfy42 posted...

then there is just being homeless mostly by choice.

Are they still homeless at that point? If you sell your shit and go backpacking for a few years, I'm not sure I'd really consider you homeless.

My cousin switches AirBnBs every 30 days, so he technically doesn't have a permanent address. Is he homeless? (Keep in mind that he'll be bringing in close to $100k this year... on annual living expenses that won't even amount to $10k.)

wolfy42 posted...

Look rent is a freaking scam lol, seriously think about it. You can't rent a 1 bedroom most places for less then $1200 a month, that is freaking $40 a day!!! With the nat average being around $10 an hour, that means you need to work 4 hours EVERY day just to put a roof over your head. What does that roof give you? Convience and comfort, but, is it really worth 4 hours?

For starters, there are a lot of places you can get a 1-bedroom for less than $1200/month. Second, home ownership can be cheaper. Third, where do you expect wages to go in general? You're earning a living >_>

But sure, that's kind of one of the big recurring themes with the tiny home movement (although as more states lose property taxes, they're going to keep clamping down on that).

wolfy42 posted...

When I was 16, I graduated HS on my birthday and as a nice present and reward

Huh?

wolfy42 posted...

(Even though she got section 8 based on me and my brother living there and neither of us did anymore).

I would have reported the bitch for fraud.

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FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

If youre a bottom prison might have its upside. But Im gonna risk homelessness.

Im done with you.

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prison, people are legally obligated to feed you and keep you alive

if youre homeless most people dont give a fuck about you and will literally watch you starve to death in the street

plus prison commissaries allegedly have everything flavor potato chips where they use the flavoring from all the different popular chip flavors, and Ive heard theyre pretty good

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Depends on a few things, especially the availability of survival resources and environmental conditions.
If conditions and resources are sufficient to offer a reasonable chance of long term survival, homeless is better than prison. If not, prison is better than reasonably certain death.

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Zeus posted...

wolfy42 posted...
When I was 16, I graduated HS on my birthday and as a nice present and reward

Huh?

wolfy42 posted...
(Even though she got section 8 based on me and my brother living there and neither of us did anymore).

I would have reported the bitch for fraud.

I was being sarcastic about it being a nice present/reward lol. It sucked.

And I didn't know she was still getting benefits for me and my brother till my brother who was 2 years younger than me turned 21 (he was put in the system when he was 9 (I was 11) and she lost section 8 at that point. I didn't realize she was atually getting money for us until recently when they tried to make me go on disability and I said I didn't want to take money from the government, I was ok on my own, and they said I got money when I was young (but I never saw it).

She is long dead now, but yeah, that really sucked.

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Prison is full of annoying assholes. Homelessness easy.

DDirtyDastard posted...

Prison is full of annoying assholes. Homelessness easy.

I have some unfortunate information to tell you regarding the types of folks that frequent the public

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Mead posted...

I have some unfortunate information to tell you regarding the types of folks that frequent the public

I avoided the public more than any other time in my life when I was homeless, I went into hermit mode mostly lol.

But point taken.

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I've been homeless before. For about 3 years actually.

And I at least had my spouse, my sister, stray cats (and the ones my mom abandoned) around, and hell even my gender which are all things I would not have had in jail. I would easily succumb to anxiety and depression in jail, I have no doubt about that.

Did it suck? Yeah. Was it scary at times? Absolutely. But it was manageable as well at least.

Homeless, your alcohol won't be made in a toilet

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I d rather be in prison. You are sure to be fed and have protection from the weather and a LOT of friends.

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Prisonlessness

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I think most prefer being free and homeless, otherwise we would see those that run prisons complain of being overrun with homeless people.

Depends on what country you're in.

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wolfy42 posted...

I was being sarcastic about it being a nice present/reward lol. It sucked.

It wasn't about you being put out at 16 -- which itself is a whole other thing -- but instead the claim you graduated high school at 16.

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Having been homeless for a time, I'd take prison.

At least your next meal is guaranteed and you're not gona get woken up in the middle of the night with a flashlight in your face.

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Zeus posted...

It wasn't about you being put out at 16 -- which itself is a whole other thing -- but instead the claim you graduated high school at 16.

We complete our high school equivalent at 16.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

We complete our high school equivalent at 16.

shocking, zeus doesn't know you can get your ged at 16 y/o, ok?

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

We complete our high school equivalent at 16.

Wait, I thought Wolfy was American?

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In my neighborhood where I grew up there was a homeless guy who would do just that: commit a petty crime every fall that would keep him in jail for the winter. Seemed to work for him.

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I've tried both. Being homeless is much, much better.

Zeus posted...

My cousin switches AirBnBs every 30 days, so he technically doesn't have a permanent address. Is he homeless? (Keep in mind that he'll be bringing in close to $100k this year... on annual living expenses that won't even amount to $10k.)

Technically yes...just because you have a roof over your head you still can be classified as 'Homeless' if its not your permanent Home. I've been living outta Hostels/Rooming Houses for a minute and I'm technically homeless (because really I don't consider some of the crappy places I've stayed as my 'Home' at all)

Zeus posted...

For starters, there are a lot of places you can get a 1-bedroom for less than $1200/month. Second, home ownership can be cheaper. Third, where do you expect wages to go in general? You're earning a living >_>

Heh not here in NYC or any other Major US city (in the North anyway) you be lucky to get a Room for that here in Manhattan.

Maybe somewhere in some isolated State/City or some Southern states.

No experience in either but prison, as bad as it is, still seems better. The biggest problem would be violent inmates that could seriously mess you up. But on the streets you could easily get jacked up too so....

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Homelessness is better.

Prison fucks you up with a record and good luck leaving with assets/job.

Nobody said you had to be broke or unemployed so you buy a van for your stuff and shower at the gym. People *choose* to live the bohemian lifestyle, it's rare somebody wants to go to prison who hasn't been before.
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wolfy42 posted...

Look rent is a freaking scam lol, seriously think about it. You can't rent a 1 bedroom most places for less then $1200 a month, that is freaking $40 a day!!! With the nat average being around $10 an hour, that means you need to work 4 hours EVERY day just to put a roof over your head. What does that roof give you? Convience and comfort, but, is it really worth 4 hours?

Move away from overpopulated garbage cities and that pricing goes way down. Ive rented several houses 2-4 bedroom for between 500-750. $1200 is insane. That rent is more than my mortgage payment on a 5 bedroom 4 bath nearly 2000 sq ft home when I lived in Indiana.
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Zeus posted...

It wasn't about you being put out at 16 -- which itself is a whole other thing -- but instead the claim you graduated high school at 16.

I got a job as a janitor at a christian private school (Kings Academy in Newark CA), they hade a P.A.C.E program which required you to fill out a bunch of work books, and then take tests in order to pass classes. I did 4 years of school in 1 year to graduate early.

In total I actually skipped 5 years, I started a year late (we were in Putney Vermont when I should have started school), and I just didn't go to school all of 4th grade (they just thought we had moved again cause till then we moved just about every 3 months). They let me move forward anyway in 4th because I tested 12th grade plus in math and reading comprehension (I said I didn't go because I was bored lol).

I was actually going to get sent to a continuation school before I switched to the private one (made the principle so mad) because I had been skipping class/not going to school to work construction (which paid great), then they gave me saturday detentions (which I also skipped). Next step was to send me to Robertsons (a continuation school), but I found a way to avoid that.

The christian school was amazing though, much like a family really. I should have stayed longer but was in a rush to be able to work full time, and felt school was a waste. I eventually did go to college and had to pay for it (I had a full scholarship I could have used when I graduated).

It's easy to make bad decisions when your young and don't have parents etc.....but it all worked out anyway. I ended up joining the AF at 17 and when I got out at 19 (gulf war ended), I went to a vocational school for 9 months (working full time graveyward at Carl's Jnr) and got my electronic techs degree. Didn't work in that field that long (few years) but it started me off and I pretty much always had better jobs then an electronic tech after that (ran S&H for Value media, worked for S&S Landscaping ($50/hr but I only got half.....but $25 an hour was alot in the early 90's), eventually took over for an attorney as my wife's partner etc.

Eventually went back to college and got a BA in Communications and my Masters in Education (graduated with a 3.94). Really wish I had used the scholarship when I was young at that point lol.

Hey I looked it up and found a website for the program. Might be a bit different now but this looks like the same one. It rocked because it lets each student learn at their own pace (not what pace stands for) so if you could learn fast or already knew the info, you could zoom like I did.

https://www.aceministries.com/what-is-a-pace

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pionear posted...

Technically yes...just because you have a roof over your head you still can be classified as 'Homeless' if its not your permanent Home. I've been living outta Hostels/Rooming Houses for a minute and I'm technically homeless (because really I don't consider some of the crappy places I've stayed as my 'Home' at all)

Reminds me of those articles on the "Hidden Homeless" population -- ie, people with roofs over their heads, no issues with hunger, etc >_>

pionear posted...

Heh not here in NYC or any other Major US city (in the North anyway) you be lucky to get a Room for that here in Manhattan.

Maybe somewhere in some isolated State/City or some Southern states.

Thankfully the whole country isn't NYC. Even other parts of NY have far cheaper (while also larger) accommodations. You could rent a townhouse in many places for less than you could rent a converted walk-in closet in NYC >_>


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Zeus posted...

Reminds me of those articles on the "Hidden Homeless" population -- ie, people with roofs over their heads, no issues with hunger, etc >_>

I have a friend who i'm giving a van to (or selling it really cheap), who might use AB&B's + the van to live in. Basically just using AB&B 2-3 times a week, which lets him have a shower and a place to charge his stuff almost every day (every day but 1 if he does it 3 times a week).

Meanwhile you can get 30$ AB&B's most places (there are cheaper available but $30 isn't hard), so the who thing would cost him 240-360 a month, but lets him travel around at will.

Setup is simple, you get an AB&B on monday, which lets you use a shower Monday and Tuesday (There is a really great battery on amazon for $150 that you can charge that can charge a laptop 4 times from a full charge (plus the laptops charge = about 20 hours...it also has solar panels that can charge the battery as well though).

Anyway M-T you have a shower, Wed you stay in the van at night (no shower). Thursday you get AB&B so after 3pm or whatever checkin is, you have a shower+ power, Friday you have a shower + power as well.

That would be the 2 day a week (240$ a month setup), but it means no shower or power recharge on W/Sat/Sun.

If you spend $360 though you get AB&B on Sat as well, so then it's just Wed that you can't shower (or charge).

You can of course charge your stuff other places, but that battery pretty much means your fine for 2 days anyway without needing to charge it (and significantly longer if there is sunlight to use and you get the solar panels as well.

I wish I was younger and my back wasn't bad etc so I could do something like that and travel around, even in the pandemic it would still be pretty cool. My back goes out if I drive more then about 2 hours in a row though, which wouldn't work well with road trips sadly.

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pionear posted...

Technically yes...just because you have a roof over your head you still can be classified as 'Homeless' if its not your permanent Home. I've been living outta Hostels/Rooming Houses for a minute and I'm technically homeless (because really I don't consider some of the crappy places I've stayed as my 'Home' at all)

There was a guy around here who wouldn't agree.

Guy told us just because we found somewhere to hide away from the elements that we weren't homeless, just 'homed in less than ideal circumstances'.

I wish I were joking, I really do. As soon as I read this post I remembered this guy and this stupid crap.

Prison

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ChaosAzeroth posted...

There was a guy around here who wouldn't agree.

Guy told us just because we found somewhere to hide away from the elements that we weren't homeless, just 'homed in less than ideal circumstances'.

I wish I were joking, I really do. As soon as I read this post I remembered this guy and this stupid crap.

I suppose it depends if it's legal or not. If you legally squat in a house then you're technically homed, if you trespass in a farmer's barn, still homeless.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

I suppose it depends if it's legal or not. If you legally squat in a house then you're technically homed, if you trespass in a farmer's barn, still homeless.

I think he meant if your sleeping in a cardboard box, that is still a home, just a not high quality one lolz.

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In general, I see a practical distinction between nomads and the homeless. Cost-cutting so you can travel (or just living & working on the road) is a far cry from the condition of homelessness. After all, I wouldn't exactly call gypsies and carnies homeless let alone traveling salesmen (although those are a dying breed... then again, so are carnies, I guess)

wolfy42 posted...

Anyway M-T you have a shower, Wed you stay in the van at night (no shower). Thursday you get AB&B so after 3pm or whatever checkin is, you have a shower+ power, Friday you have a shower + power as well.

Wouldn't be a problem if you parked your van down by the river, although then you'd be living in a van down by the river.


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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uk5HT7loZyI

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Zeus posted...

Wouldn't be a problem if you parked your van down by the river, although then you'd be living in a van down by the river.

Lol yeah.

I'm not advocating that lifestyle for everyone, but alot of people are living out of vans especially in CA (bay area especially) because rent is so high. Using a Van + AB&B setup is actually cheaper in alot of ways than just using a van because you don't need to do as many renovations on the van.

You can use things like planet fitness though to cover most of the needs. You have showers 24/7 (and rest rooms for that matter), entertainment and charging stations 24/7 for just $10 a month.

But the main point is to be as comfortable as possible without spending $2000+ a month to have a roof over your head (in the bay area which is where he is going to be). Even blowing $360 is nothing compared to that, and it nets you showers/power/kitchens 6 days out of 7 a week, while giving you complete flexibility over where you are etc.

For my friend he wants to basically travel alot, going north for family, and then to the bay area during winter etc, to avoid the snow and constant rain/clouds in WA, so it would work perfectly.

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I think either one would wind up with me dead sooner rather than later.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

I suppose it depends if it's legal or not. If you legally squat in a house then you're technically homed, if you trespass in a farmer's barn, still homeless.

How do you legally squat?

It depends on who I am at the time.

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