Current Events > Protesters are now claiming they will remove Emancipation Abraham Lincoln Statue

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Zikten posted...

he's not even a former slave. he is still in chains. but yes, showing a lowly slave and a godlike lincoln standing over him is an offensive look.

if the statue showed a normal dressed black man shaking lincolns hand it would better. this guy is in chains and in rags. and looking miserable. he should be in a business suit and smiling as he stands like an equal.

that's not an accurate reflection of how things were, though. to pretend that the recently freed slaves were suddenly "equal" because a proclamation was made is misleading and not a reflection of the past. those people were freed from literal bondage. i think there is value in remembering how awful we treated people during our past so we don't repeat it.

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TheGoldenEel posted...

there is an argument to be made that monuments in general celebrating the end of slavery do not belong in a country where in many ways slavery and certainly inequality have persisted to the present day

for example here in Madison WI protesters just tore down a statue of a woman called forward that is meant to represent progresswith the reasoning that until the government actually makes meaningful change to move forward, the statue does not represent the state

but of course certain segments of the population will just try to paint it as stupid mob mentality or whatever

true. there is a myth that man republicans buy into that, the civil rights movement succeeded 100% and that oppression has been over for a very long time. but it's not true. black people still get oppressed every day. if you ask a black person, while some things have changed, in other ways, life in america is not as different as it was 100 years ago, as people want you to think. ask any republican and they try too say that racism in american died out many decades ago or if they are like Moscow Mitch, they will say there was never racism in America, and that everyone was equal since 1776

I'd feel a lot better about this if the guy doing it was using it to pimp his instagram account.

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Zikten posted...

true. there is a myth that man republicans buy into that, the civil rights movement succeeded 100% and that oppression has been over for a very long time. but it's not true. black people still get oppressed every day. if you ask a black person, while some things have changed, in other ways, life in america is not as different as it was 100 years ago, as people want you to think. ask any republican and they try too say that racism in american died out many decades ago or if they are like Moscow Mitch, they will say there was never racism in America, and that everyone was equal since 1776

Yes

in many ways even these statues celebrating the end of slavery or union victories or whatever just give fuel to the side that says racism is over which is far from the truth

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Guys, once we reach 100,000 followers on Instagram then we tear down this statue! Also check out our store for some sick merch! And follow us on Twitter for our iphone giveaway!

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This is what you guys are defending ITT calling people who want to bring it down outrage warriors. Just look at it. A lot of trash human beings ITT.

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Swagger_Dagger posted...

This is what you guys are defending ITT calling people who want to bring it down outrage warriors. Just look at it. A lot of trash human beings ITT.

I'm certainly not defending the statue. It's a disservice to Lincoln's legacy as well as Black America. But delaying the tear down by three days just to boost your instagram followers is some self serving bullshit.

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Emancipate that statue.

Zikten posted...

I dont' care if slaves helped build the statue it is still wrong.

That right there is peak first world, modern privilege. On the other hand, it is honest and often people dont admit to it that boldly.

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These rioters took down a statue of a anti-slavery activist. Whoever is doing this just hates America in general, has no principles and wants to destroy it.

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onedarksoul posted...

These rioters took down a statue of a anti-slavery activist. Whoever is doing this just hates America in general, has no principles and wants to destroy it.

Or perhaps, its more nuanced than that but youre not interested in considering the viewpoints of other people so you paint them as stupid and hateful

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https://youtu.be/dI8RPO87vSc

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DevsBro posted...

https://youtu.be/dI8RPO87vSc

Lmao wtf

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DezDroppedFreak posted...

Lmao wtf

It wasn't that abrupt in context. Before the clip even starts, you know they're at the Lincoln Monument. But I always loved the way the cut this clip.

This show was legit the best for random crazy nonsense that's even funnier out of context.

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Call me white and privileged but I don't get the call to remove this statue. Or the one thrown in the lake in Madison, WI. Or the vandalism to the 54th Mass. Reg monument.


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TheGoldenEel posted...

Or perhaps, its more nuanced than that but youre not interested in considering the viewpoints of other people so you paint them as stupid and hateful

There is very little nuance in these actions. Took down Grant, want Lincoln gone, have already pulled down statues of several abolitionists and anti- slavery activists.

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onedarksoul posted...

There is very little nuance in these actions. Took down Grant, want Lincoln gone, have already pulled down statues of several abolitionists and anti- slavery activists.

I guess you didnt pick up the nuance in my post

let me be clearer than before:

It IS more nuanced than that but youre not interested in considering the viewpoints of other people so you paint them as stupid and hateful

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I got you loud and clear. Since you said it twice though, I'll ask you: how is it more nuanced than that. Explain the actions of the mobs across America, in a way that makes sense.

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DevsBro posted...

And let's ban the Stars and Stripes while we're at it

Many of them want too.

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The emancipation statue, while well-intentioned, does portray some serious inequality. The Black man is on his knee while Lincoln stands over him like a god.

I would say take it down and replace it with a new statue -- one in which Lincoln and a Black man are standing on equal terms. I would imagine a statue where they're standing opposite; looking one another in the eye. The former slave having symbolic broken shackles on his wrists or ankles.

Placing the two as equal would be accurate since Black people are free to be president now and one Black man has thus far been president.

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One half-black man. We don't live in a one-drop rule society anymore.

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onedarksoul posted...

I got you loud and clear. Since you said it twice though, I'll ask you: how is it more nuanced than that. Explain the actions of the mobs across America, in a way that makes sense.

See my previous posts. you dont have to agree with the reasoning, but the fact is there is reasoning that goes beyond angry mob mentality

TheGoldenEel posted...

there is an argument to be made that monuments in general celebrating the end of slavery do not belong in a country where in many ways slavery and certainly inequality have persisted to the present day

for example here in Madison WI protesters just tore down a statue of a woman called forward that is meant to represent progresswith the reasoning that until the government actually makes meaningful change to move forward, the statue does not represent the state

TheGoldenEel posted...

in many ways even these statues celebrating the end of slavery or union victories or whatever just give fuel to the side that says racism is over which is far from the truth

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onedarksoul posted...

One half-black man. We don't live in a one-drop rule society anymore.

Morgan Freeman, please stop.

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Okay, since a half-Black man has been president, we will have a statue of half a Black man meeting President Lincoln eye to eye.

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Caution999 posted...

I'm already planning to purchase whatever American History books I can find prior to the last decade or so. Before all our history is completely forgotten.

You mean before we replace the garbage the people want you to believe with actual fucking facts.

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FortuneCookie posted...

Many of them want too.

No they don't.

Statues celebrating the end of slavery DO belong in this country, for slavery IS over. Its a dark chapter in this country's history which must never be forgotten. Out of sight, out of mind. I probably know where you'll disagree on this point. Inequality is a separate, more nebulous issue.

By tearing them down, you are pissing on all of the accomplishments of those who fought, and in many cases died, so that slaves could be free. Some of this is definitely the despondent outcry of those who still "feel" they are slaves, because maybe they are. Mental slaves. Not legal slaves, nor physical. Perhaps the people who believe that rationale are being played by more insidious and destructive forces, which is the view I lean toward, or they are simply swept up in the fervor of the mob. In either case, these are half-baked justifications which evaporate upon a studied consideration of the facts.

If thats your argument, I in turn ask, when is it feasible to put statues up? What event or law would have to happen in order for it to be safe to acknowledge the struggle of those who fought ? People can't change the goal-posts of what they represent after more than half a century. And you mention the woman statue. Women are equal under the law, more than equal in fact, if you look at family court, divorce court, and the court of public opinion.

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onedarksoul posted...

Statues celebrating the end of slavery DO belong in this country, for slavery IS over.

We literally have slavery still happening in our prisons, and a legal system that does its best to keep feeding people into it.

You're also missing the point that the statue is extremely offensive regardless of context.

I knew that would be the counter-point, but I wanted him to say it. They are not slaves. You commit a crime, you are the property of the state. Their time is then used to perform public good; such as firefighting, building roads and bridges, and other things.

Real slavery only exists in pockets of India and a few other nations.

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onedarksoul posted...

Statues celebrating the end of slavery DO belong in this country, for slavery IS over. Its a dark chapter in this country's history which must never be forgotten. Out of sight, out of mind. I probably know where you'll disagree on this point. Inequality is a separate, more nebulous issue.

By tearing them down, you are pissing on all of the accomplishments of those who fought, and in many cases died, so that slaves could be free. Some of this is definitely the despondent outcry of those who still "feel" they are slaves, because maybe they are. Mental slaves. Not legal slaves, nor physical. Perhaps the people who believe that rationale are being played by more insidious and destructive forces, which is the view I lean toward, or they are simply swept up in the fervor of the mob. In either case, these are half-baked justifications which evaporate upon a studied consideration of the facts.

If thats your argument, I in turn ask, when is it feasible to put statues up? What event or law would have to happen in order for it to be safe to acknowledge the struggle of those who fought ? People can't change the goal-posts of what they represent after more than half a century. And you mention the woman statue. Women are equal under the law, more than equal in fact, if you look at family court, divorce court, and the court of public opinion.

All Im asking you to do is to acknowledge that there is more nuance to the protesting of statues than youre giving protesters credit for, and with that post you did

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Eh...the vast majority of them are caught up in the crowd.

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Guide posted...

The arguments were already made, but a point of note comes up: Did you care about the statue before they wanted to tear it down?

Remember, I won't know if you're lying, but you will.

Did you?

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onedarksoul posted...

They are not slaves. You commit a crime, you are the property of the state.

No, they are literally slaves. There's a literal exception in the constitution allowing slavery and indentured servitude as a punishment.

onedarksoul posted...

Their time is then used to perform public good; such as firefighting, building roads and bridges, and other things.

Actually it's used as free labor for the profit of the prison. They aren't building roads or bridges, and they certainly aren't fighting fires, though I'm happy to let you dig a hole with your own ignorance.

If its as punishment for a crime, its not slavery in the sense that slavery is normally understood. Its punishment.

Secondly, they are fighting fires. They just fought some here in Arizona.

https://www.kgun9.com/news/wildfires/113-arizona-inmates-battling-bighorn-bush-fires

You don't know what you're talking about.

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onedarksoul posted...

Eh...the vast majority of them are caught up in the crowd.

Source?

or are you just letting your pre-conceived biases about these people prevent you from hearing the very real arguments theyre making?

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onedarksoul posted...

If its as punishment for a crime, its not slavery in the sense that slavery is normally understood. Its punishment.

No, it's still literally slavery. Them being potentially guilty of a crime doesn't make it OK.

onedarksoul posted...

Secondly, they are fighting fires. They just fought some here in Arizona.

https://www.kgun9.com/news/wildfires/113-arizona-inmates-battling-bighorn-bush-fires

You don't know what you're talking about.

That's not the labor we're talking about, that's a voluntary position. Also, if it's anything like similar programs, it's very much a privelege and they're rarely directly facing wildfires but instead clearing brush and other flammable materials.

I'm literally working towards a position in parole work, I definitely know what I'm talking abiut more than you do.

No, the article pretty clearly says what they were there to do in this case, making your post an off-base aside for the most part. To your credit it did address brush work. I'm glad you're helping parolees though, at least I hope.

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onedarksoul posted...

No, the article pretty clearly says what they were there to do in this case, making your post an off-base aside for the most part. To your credit it did address brush work. I'm glad you're helping parolees though, at least I hope.

Not yet, but it's the goal. I have the education but not the experience.

When will Mount Rushmore be defaced?

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TheGoldenEel posted...

Source?

or are you just letting your pre-conceived biases about these people prevent you from hearing the very real arguments theyre making?

All you have to do is look at them. If it wasn't statues, they'd be destroying something else

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au_gold posted...

When will Mount Rushmore be defaced?

The monument itself should remain, but the site should changed to focus on native American heritage.

onedarksoul posted...

All you have to do is look at them. If it wasn't statues, they'd be destroying something else

Again, youre choosing to ignore what they are saying and instead continue believing your pre-conceived notion, specifically based on their appearance

the narrative that these targeted statues are just from people who want to wreck shit is false. There are many things they could be targeting and they are choosing to target monuments. If you think that a majority of the protesters dont know why, or dont at least support the movement behind removing the statues, you are ignoring their collective voice

its fine if you dont agree with the removal of all of them. Its a complicated situation. And Im sure there are people who are staunchly pro-BLM who disagree with many of the monument removals

but it is condescending to say they dont know what theyre protesting


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Called it

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RadiantAdolin posted...

No they don't.

We have seen flag burnings during the protests.

If we could replace the American flag with a new one, many would see that as a social changing-of-the-guard.

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Me: Ughhh Trump is disgusting, trying to deploy military against civilian protestors. Fuck him.

These Protestors:

Me: Never mind.

Tbqh.

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Now is the part where Democrats are no longer okay with statues being torn down. Ready? Go.

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LostForest posted...

Me: Ughhh Trump is disgusting, trying to deploy military against civilian protestors. Fuck him.

These Protestors:

Me: Never mind.

Tbqh.

"Fascism is ok if protesters do something I don't like"

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I agree. I don't like that statue. The issue isn't with President Lincoln himself, but the actual statue and the fetal position of the enslaved man



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2Pacavelli posted...

I agree. I don't like that statue. The issue isn't Lincoln himself, but the actual statue and the fetal position of the enslaved man

That's what a lot of people are missing: the context.

It's not Lincoln that's the problem. It's the manner in which freedmen are represented.

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NinjaWarrior455 posted...

"Fascism is ok if protesters do something I don't like"

What is humor, for $700.


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