Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 304: All Posts Are Bad

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

Uhhh you think the safest way to end a high speed chase is to shoot the driver?

It's a very possible outcome. And likely outcome


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StealThisSheen posted...

Ah, yes. The law shouldn't take away somebody's legal right to drive if they're proven a danger to public lives multiple times.

But the law should take away somebody's life if they maybe possibly potentially are a threat with a taser.

The cognitive dissonance necessary to believe both of these things at the same time is stunning.

Guy you're arguing with is a self-centered sadistic asshole who likes the idea of people dying as long as it's not him. That's the only reasonable explanation. Dunno why you're bothering.

Corrik7 posted...

It's a very possible outcome. And likely outcome

Is it a common outcome to high speed chases?

Maybe its just media propaganda but I was of the impression that the most common outcome to high speed chases is the police managing to disable the car and arrest the driver
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Wonder how much longer it's gonna be before the repeat offendor Corrik kills someone in a collision?

Anyone wanna start taking bets?

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Wonder how much longer it's gonna be before the repeat offendor Corrik kills someone in a collision?

Anyone wanna start taking bets?

Tasteful post.

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Reg posted...

Guy you're arguing with is a self-centered sadistic asshole who likes the idea of people dying as long as it's not him. That's the only reasonable explanation. Dunno why you're bothering.

As someone who has said the same thing in this very topic, in this very discussion in fact, it's just really difficult when he's this confidently stupid.

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Using FBI statistics from 2016. For violent offences, white people made up 69.6% of arrests, black people made up 26.9% of arrests.

Homicide rates by police are harder to get official sources on. I'll use Statistica for lack of an official source, and unfortunately the only source I could find from them uses 2019, but claims previous years had similar numbers. According to them, there were 331 white people killed by police, and 212 black people. Even ignoring bias in arrest rates, this shows a clear difference in force used by the police depending on the race of the suspect.

Why I took the time to put this together given it'll be dismissed out of hand, I don't know.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Is it a common outcome to high speed chases?

Maybe its just media propaganda but I was of the impression that the most common outcome to high speed chases is the police managing to disable the car and arrest the driver

I specifically said high speed and DUI driver.

If that changes your opinion at all.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

As someone who has said the same thing in this very topic, in this very discussion in fact, it's just really difficult when he's this confidently stupid.

oh, sorry

Just started at the end, started reading backwards, saw that post almost immediately and just decided none of the rest was worth reading because you're all fucking idiots for indulging somebody like that.

I'm just really surprised by this stance of Corrik's that he himself deserves to be killed by the police. Out of nowhere really, but can't fault him for staying true to his own personal convictions and not being a complete hypocrite.

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JeffreyRaze posted...

Using FBI statistics from 2016. For violent offences, white people made up 69.6% of arrests, black people made up 26.9% of arrests.

Homicide rates by police are harder to get official sources on. I'll use Statistica for lack of an official source, and unfortunately the only source I could find from them uses 2019, but claims previous years had similar numbers. According to them, there were 331 white people killed by police, and 212 black people. Even ignoring bias in arrest rates, this shows a clear difference in force used by the police depending on the race of the suspect.

Why I took the time to put this together given it'll be dismissed out of hand, I don't know.

Thanks for looking it up, though I do expect Latinos may have gotten lumped in with whites in these stats which makes them maybe unusable.

That's 70% to 27% in crime.

That's 61% to 39% deaths.

Is that discrepancy as great as you thought it would be? I doubt it is.

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Corrik7 posted...

I specifically said high speed and DUI driver.

If that changes your opinion at all.

I dont see what that changes

Not only is it ridiculously dangerous to snipe a driver at high speeds, its also ridiculously difficult

Police have stuff like blockades and spike strips to disable vehicles much more safely
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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I'm just really surprised by this stance of Corrik's that he himself deserves to be killed by the police. Out of nowhere really, but can't fault him for staying true to his own personal convictions and not being a complete hypocrite.

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Jakyl25 posted...

I dont see what that changes

Not only is it ridiculously dangerous to snipe a driver at high speeds, its also ridiculously difficult

Police have stuff like blockades and spike strips to disable vehicles much more safely

Okay. Let me say it this way, would you be upset if the chase ended with shooting the driver of a car at high speed that is under the influence to the point that the cops tried to pull them over already.

To me, that seems definitely like a person who is a threat to society. And justified use of force.

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Corrik7 posted...

Thanks for looking it up, though I do expect Latinos may have gotten lumped in with whites in these stats which makes them maybe unusable.

That's 70% to 27% in crime.

That's 61% to 39% deaths.

Is that discrepancy as great as you thought it would be? I doubt it is.

Both tables have separation for Hispanic people, so that shouldn't be a factor. The discrepancy is more than large enough to provide high-confidence evidence of bias in use of force by police officers. Do you agree with this assessment?


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JeffreyRaze posted...

Both tables have separation for Hispanic people, so that shouldn't be a factor. The discrepancy is more than large enough to provide high-confidence evidence of bias in use of force by police officers. Do you agree with this assessment?

Possibly. Depends on data for at least 5 years I'd say and obviously the data isn't going to show it case by case, but it can be a launching part for an argument. Sure. Obviously with any sort of trend we see, we should research it further to see if the actual evidence supports it. Which, of course, in this case would be relatively hard without consistent body cams used across every case, so it is fair and acceptable to look at the greater trends without it.

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Corrik7 posted...

Okay. Let me say it this way, would you be upset if the chase ended with shooting the driver of a car at high speed that is under the influence to the point that the cops tried to pull them over already.

Yes considering they have so many other non-Lethal options and they are creating a potentially even more lethal situation to the public by shooting him

Thats like saying would you be upset if the cops used a grenade launcher to take out an assassin running through the streets
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Jakyl25 posted...

Yes considering they have so many other non-Lethal options and they are creating a potentially even more lethal situation to the public by shooting him

Thats like saying would you be upset if the cops took out an assassin running through the streets with a grenade launcher

Well, the law just happens to disagree with you then. So, this means you have an opinion on the law. It doesn't mean you are whining about the law and boohooing inconsistently because you have an opinion.

Though, I do think at least a few here arguing in the criminals defense here would have said Fair, Next if the scenario I presented happened and they commented on it.

But, maybe I am wrong!

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Corrik7 posted...

It doesn't mean you are whining about the law and boohooing inconsistently because you have an opinion.

But I am whining about the law! Its bad!
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Jakyl25 posted...

But I am whining about the law! Its bad!

Then you are whining about it. Your choice. Simply having an opinion about it doesn't mean you are whining about it.

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Do you recognize the increased public threat created by police firing guns at the drunk driver of a high speed car??
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Corrik7 posted...

It's a very possible outcome. And likely outcome

As someone that tunes in to the TV for high speed pursuits like any good LA area resident, no, its not common.

No, its not likely.

They end peacefully or with police chasing them. When they run they realize they aren't trained police officers and are out of shape, typically they get tackled to the ground while trying to catch their breath.

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I have NEVER heard of cops sniping someone out of their car during a speed chase.

Corrik watching too many action movies again.

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The evidence is more than strong enough to have 99% certainty that the system is biased with that data set.

But if you think there needs to be more data and longer term trends then fine. If you're willing to tell me what it would take to convince you, I might just take the time to put it together for you. In exchange, if I present that data, you agree to accept that there is bias in police use of force. If you disagree with my sources you may challenge them by providing an alternate source.

Do you agree Corrik?

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https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/investigations/article226512455.html

Well, maybe they should, red, if they don't.

But, look... Another thing police could do instead so they don't have to chase... But... Not enough money to do it.

Defund the police!

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JeffreyRaze posted...

The evidence is more than strong enough to have 99% certainty that the system is biased with that data set.

But if you think there needs to be more data and longer term trends then fine. If you're willing to tell me what it would take to convince you, I might just take the time to put it together for you. In exchange, if I present that data, you agree to accept that there is bias in police use of force. If you disagree with my sources you may challenge them by providing an alternate source.

Do you agree Corrik?

Show data from 2014 to 2019. For African Americans, Whites, and Latinos. For violent crimes. And deaths. We can analyze it together Jeff and see what we think!

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Sure thing. I can't start on it right away, but I'll try to pull all that together.

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https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/1271755011777794048?s=19

Protest the removal of a Churchill statue by...throwing up a bunch of Sieg Heils.

OK.

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Corrik7 posted...

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/investigations/article226512455.html

Well, maybe they should, red, if they don't.

But, look... Another thing police could do instead so they don't have to chase... But... Not enough money to do it.

Defund the police!

What would you say if, hypothetically, they got the funding for all the body cams and high speed trackers they could ever need, but still regularly refused to use them?
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Jakyl25 posted...

What would you say if, hypothetically, they got the funding for all the body cams and high speed trackers they could ever need, but still regularly refused to use them?

That would be illegal at that point. Barring a independently proven malfunction, what excuse would there be to not use them?

Anyone who was skeptical that the other hanging was a suicide... Another had been found recently about an hour away (50 miles or so).

https://www.vvng.com/sheriffs-department-says-foul-play-not-suspected-after-black-man-found-hanging-in-tree-near-victorville-city-library/

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But, I don't know if I support high speed gps trackers either. That is something I need to think about.

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Corrik7 posted...

That would be illegal at that point. Barring a independently proven malfunction, what excuse would there be to not use them?

Sure, but what if they refuse to arrest each other
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Jakyl25 posted...

Sure, but what if they refuse to arrest each other

What

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Corrik7 posted...

What

Whats hard to understand?

Cops dont like to arrest other cops
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Jakyl25 posted...

Whats hard to understand?

Cops dont like to arrest other cops

It's on the DA to bring charges against the cop. A cop who tells a DA they refuse to do their job if ordered to do so, should be fired.

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Lmao sniping a moving target

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My point is that we already have multiple cases of police who DO HAVE body cams that just for whatever reason didnt function when they committed an alleged abuse of power

And nothing ever comes of it

So Im not sure what giving them more body cams does
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We've already had proven cases of cops turning off body cams to falcify evidence. You really think all the assaults with "malfunctioning cameras" were legit?

Cops are basically a pack. They will assist their fellow officers with anything, including commiting crimes themselves, rather than turn on the pack.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

We've already had proven cases of cops turning off body cams to falcify evidence. You really think all the assaults with "malfunctioning cameras" were legit?

Cops are basically a pack. They will assist their fellow officers with anything, including commiting crimes themselves, rather than turn on the pack.

As seen, as openly as ever for the world to see, in Buffalo
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"PLUMHOFF V. RICKARD
In 2014, SCOTUS again sided with police officers pursuing extremely reckless drivers. The case centered on a high-speed chase that ended with the deaths of the fleeing driver and his passenger.
The decision, written by Justice Samuel Alito Jr., considered the precedent established in Graham v. Connor that considers the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene and ruled that the suspects outrageously reckless driving posed a grave public safety risk.
The ruling in Plumhoff v. Rickard recognizes the extreme threat to public safety posed by reckless drivers and says the Fourth Amendment allows the use of deadly force to stop them.
The Supreme Court determined that the suspect vehicle and its driver posed a clear threat, and shooting to end that threat was both practical and appropriate, said Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Force Science Institute."

What I figured. Whether it is shooting the driver or purposely crashing them and killing them or etc. Police have the justifiable and legal means to end the chase.

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Jakyl25 posted...

My point is that we already have multiple cases of police who DO HAVE body cams that just for whatever reason didnt function when they committed an alleged abuse of power

And nothing ever comes of it

So Im not sure what giving them more body cams does

I believe a cops words should have no weight in court if their camera was turned off. They should also get enough funding to have IT and enough body cams for every cop in America. And make it a crime to turn them off or to cause malfunction purposely. With a panel to independently investigate it. Cops who are found to have done so at a crime are immediately fired and charged. IMHO.

Again, a law we should hope comes. I have faith in common sense. Never gonna get it defunding police though. Nothing wrong with accountability by the police.

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Corrik7 posted...

What I figured. Whether it is shooting the driver or purposely crashing them and killing them or etc. Police have the justifiable and legal means to end the chase.

Purposely crashing them and killing them is still worlds better than trying to snipe them
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Corrik7 posted...

I have faith in common sense.

Again there is no such thing as common sense

I dont know how you could look at the history of the world and think there is
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Corrik is calling for police to shoot suspects in high speed pursuits

also yes deaths happen, the solution in California was actually police had stopped chasing suspects and letting them go to be arrested later.

But umm, this made for poor TV and pressure quickly mounted for them to resume the old practice of police pursuits.

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red13n posted...

Corrik is calling for police to shoot suspects in high speed pursuits

also yes deaths happen, the solution in California was actually police had stopped chasing suspects and letting them go to be arrested later.

But umm, this made for poor TV and pressure quickly mounted for them to resume the old practice of police pursuits.

My link clearly says that funding is the issue for that tracking idea.

I don't know if I agree with the idea of it anyways. It is debatable.

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Whats your hesitation?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Whats your hesitation?

Once people know they will be tracked, does it make them less likely to flee or does it make them more likely to commit further crime when they get to a stop?

Idk. I'll think about it some.

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You should probably trust the police; they know best about how to police crime
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1271914734724546564?s=21

No more NFL for Trump
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1271914734724546564?s=21

No more NFL for Trump

Is he going to "not watch" the NFL in the same way he "doesn't watch" CNN?

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