Board 8 > Anagram Aces Ace Attorney Topic 5: Ghost of Morality (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Leonhart4 posted...

Yeah, but only Phoenix Wright is defending an orca. It's not like every attorney out there is doing all the stuff he's doing.

You know what, I have to concede this, but only because I just remembered the pirate girl citing Phoenix cross-examining a parrot as something famous she's heard of.

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That post reminded me to look up a case I heard about a while back where a parrot was being considered to testify:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40665520

"The parrot, an African Grey named Bud, was not used in the court proceedings."

Too bad.
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

That post reminded me to look up a case I heard about a while back where a parrot was being considered to testify:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40665520

"The parrot, an African Grey named Bud, was not used in the court proceedings."

Too bad.

Honestly disappointing.

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I hope that didn't let the real murderer to get away.

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• "He's not your run-of-the-mill prosecutor." So, who's the most normal prosecutor in the series? I guess it has to be Winston Payne, but ignoring him. Does it just become Edgeworth? I've said before that this series has an issue with escalating wackiness.
• Why would you need the ability to predict the future of a trial if your country just uses ghost memories to handle things?
• Nahyuta wins the dubious honor of "least lawyer-looking lawyer in the series." Winner of "most lawyer-looking lawyer" is Grossberg. My dad is a lawyer, and I've met his lawyer friends, and Grossberg could easily be a real person.
• I know this is a random thing to say, but I immediately don't like Nahyuta. Here's the thing: "enlightened monk" fits "lawyer" about as well as "rock star" does. Enlightened monks unconcerned with worldly things, who have flowing scarves swirl around their head and and call mystical pink butterflies to their fingers, are like the opposite of "guy who cares about every minor detail in a mystery." Like, I get it, justice is an ephemeral thing and I'm overthinking this, but it's still like the exact opposite archetype, so it's weird that this guy can argue like the other prosecutors.
• What the -- game, there have never been opening statements by the defense before, what is this?
• "That was way over the top as far as verbal abuse goes." Sure, but what about physical abuse? I think every prosecutor except Edgeworth and Klavier has physically attacked Phoenix in some way.
• "Science and religion go together about as well as oil and water." Apollo, you're being unfair to use a purely science-based analogy. Could you please rephrase this in Biblical terms? Perhaps "as well as Joshua and chariots of iron?"
• I refuse to believe the majority of players will understand a pun about "lagomorphing."
• I mean, look, I appreciate that Bonny has an alibi, but the game drew attention to how there are other staff members in the theater. They even threw us out after the murder!

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Yeah, I'm not a fan of Nahyuta. He has his moments, but by and large, he's not much fun as an opponent.

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Nahyuta is a fun vacuum sadly

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I think he works better than the likes of Klavier because he is at least antagonistic. But he doesn't have much more depth than Franziska, tbh.

Yeah, I like SoJ, but Nahyuta is definitely on the weaker end of the prosecutor scale

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Remember how I said to enjoy your time with Blackquill while it lasts? Nahyuta is why.

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• I knew an evil face transformation was coming for Bonnie, but uh, this is a bit... lamer than I expected.
• I do appreciate how the magic show in the courtroom gets clapping from the audience instead of the normal stunned gasps.
• You know, the original built up to the twins reveal as a crazy insane twist after fourteen cases. It had sort of earned that reveal? I don't know if I like it as much here, in this context. However, I do like Bonnie holding up her sister while she poses.
• "I'm gonna yank those lame bangs of yours off!" "Whatever, they grow back." Is that a subtle Blackquill reference? If so, I approve.
• "Lobster boy! Cue ball geezer! Head case brat! Cerberus monk!" ... I get the others, but Cerberus for Nahyuta?
• Okay, so Retinz is Mr. Reus because he made his camera disappear, got it. The body is someone else.
• Is manslaughter even that much better a charge? This is the same legal system that was going to punish Edgeworth for throwing a gun to stop a murderer that went off and seemed to kill his father.
• "People hated it when 4-3 had a billion videos you had to sit through, right? So they'll love it if we do the same thing here."
• Even by Phoenix Wright standards, the levels of "the main character proves the murder couldn't have happened this way, so a witness/prosecutor proposes another way and everyone just ignores how it makes no sense" here are getting insane.
• Retinz asks if he has an ulterior motive, I present the contract with Trucy, the game penalizes me. Bah.

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The Bonny/Betty transformation is one of my favorite parts of the case. It's really fun. Their shared animations are good.

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Yeah they're some of my favorite witnesses. They're just fun.

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Yeah the scene where the frist two appear together for the first time is pretty cool.

I'd rather fight Payne in court than Nahyuta, TBQH.

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It took me until just now to question why there are even prosecutors in a country where all cases are handled by a priestess asking ghosts.

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Prosecutors do more than just argue the case in court.

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LeonhartFour posted...

The Bonny/Betty transformation is one of my favorite parts of the case. It's really fun. Their shared animations are good.

I do agree the animations are fun.

Raka_Putra posted...

I'd rather fight Payne in court than Nahyuta, TBQH.

I'll talk about my impressions of him after this case.

Leonhart4 posted...

Prosecutors do more than just argue the case in court.

Yeah, but why? If the only thing that matters is asking the ghost who killed him, why bother?

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To determine the severity of the charge and stuff, I guess

or for the rare occasions that it isn't about someone dying, I suppose

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• You know, I just realized, Trucy was charged with the death of Mr. Reus, not Mr. Mistree, so the trial should be dismissed on those grounds alone.
• "What mistake did Bonny make during the magic trick?" "Her life choices."
• In AA5, this little "chain of logic" thing you do at the end of each trial at least required some thought. This one is just testing to see if you paid attention to the most basic facts of the case, it's very disappointing.

You know what this case reminds me of? 4-3, and not just because of the overuse of videos and complete lapses in logic. I'm talking about how the killer in that case, whatever his name was, was just sort of an unpleasant jerk, which made the case less fun. I guess it makes sense, but eh. Both the killer and the prosecutor are just kind of boring jerks. Holding a grudge for thirteen years to frame the granddaughter of the man you hate after he dies is not the dumbest motive for a killer in the series, but it's pretty bad, and Reus doesn't even have a particularly good breakdown. Trying to integrate Trucy more into the story is good, in AA5 she was just there and did nothing of importance (same with Athena so far, but I assume she'll be more important later), but man, like I said before, this series really assumes people care about stage magic of all things, probably because that makes for easy writing in mystery stories. To be clear, this case does have some strengths, and it's not really bad, but it has a lot in common with the series' worst cases.

Nahyuta is not off to a good start, and everyone has said he's a weak prosecutor. Bit of a shame, that. He also has kind of boring animations compared to the previous prosecutors? He doesn't even have a good 'surprised' reaction, like when Edgeworth glowers or Godot spits out coffee, he just pulls off his beads and smashes his desk. I guess they did set up his mysterious connection to Apollo, but it's going to have to have some amazing payoff later on.

You know what, I'll just say it: of the three main characters, Apollo is easily the most boring. Athena is the most pointless, and I'm not even sure there's a reason for Phoenix to still be around when his arc seems to have finished in the third game, but if Phoenix is Snake or Dante, Apollo doesn't even reach the lofty heights of Raiden or Nero. I assume Nahyuta's connection to Apollo will involve Apollo's backstory somehow, they knew each other as kids or something, I don't know, but trying to be interesting by attaching yourself to an established character only works if it's really well-written, like Godot, and I don't get the impression that this game will be as well-written as AA3.

I still enjoyed the case, though. We'll see how Nahyuta goes from here.

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I thought 6-2 was almost an apology for 4-3 (and for how poorly Trucy was used in DD). Instead of refusing to help Apollo because you can't reveal a magician's secrets, she readily helps. And her testimony is fantastic.

Also the Mr. Reus theme is excellent.

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Anagram posted...

Reus doesn't even have a particularly good breakdown

Aw, I like his breakdown.

The rest of what you say is basically true though.

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Leonhart4 posted...

I thought 6-2 was almost an apology for 4-3 (and for how poorly Trucy was used in DD). Instead of refusing to help Apollo because you can't reveal a magician's secrets, she readily helps. And her testimony is fantastic.

Also the Mr. Reus theme is excellent.

I forgot to mention the music, my bad.

6-2 is definitely better than 4-3, you're correct in that it feels like 4-3 done more right, but still not really great. I'm debating where to put it in my list of episodes.

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Oh, it's firmly a mid-tier case, maybe even the lower half of the middle tier, but that's a huge improvement over "worst case in the series."

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Leonhart4 posted...

Oh, it's firmly a mid-tier case, maybe even the lower half of the middle tier, but that's a huge improvement over "worst case in the series."

Yeah, this is a good way to put it, I'll agree to this.

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Wow, Apollo is probably my favorite protagonist in all of video games. I will have none of this slander.

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I have to admit I really like revisualisation in general

Nice way to put the button on each case imo

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Anagram posted...

In AA5, this little "chain of logic" thing you do at the end of each trial at least required some thought. This one is just testing to see if you paid attention to the most basic facts of the case, it's very disappointing.

I was gonna make a spoiler-barred joke here but decided against it, just in case

I'm sure everyone can guess what it was anyway!

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Anagram posted...

In AA5, this little "chain of logic" thing you do at the end of each trial at least required some thought. This one is just testing to see if you paid attention to the most basic facts of the case, it's very disappointing.

Be careful what you ask for, you may end up getting it!

THE MURDER WEAPON IS UDON DOUGH

LordoftheMorons posted...

I was gonna make a spoiler-barred joke here but decided against it, just in case

I'm sure everyone can guess what it was anyway!

Oops, we had the same idea.

Don't read the spoiler Anagram.

just remove the spoiler

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Also I agree Reus is lame. For me the issue is that he worked much better as a TV businessman than as a magician, and he lost a bit of his swag when he started being all serious and mysterious and doing magic tricks on stand.

I love Trucy here, though. This is the first time she ever breaks character in the series.

I kinda like Reus, but mostly because I'm totally on his side as far as "screw the Gramaryes"

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I do appreciate how his TV guy outfit does double duty as a magician's costume. Neato.

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Bump for later

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• Back to Khura'in. "This place is really starting to grow on me." I guess this might be racist against Khura'inese, but so far, I have seen zero redeeming qualities to this country except cool architecture.
• This is a more restrained reintroduction to Maya than I expected. A ten second anime cutscene isn't quite as exciting as I thought we'd get! New Maya looks good head-on and when doing her "little kid puffing out their cheeks" pose, but her "smiling while facing slightly off-screen but looking at you" and "poking her head while looking off" poses aren't as solid. As far as "translated into 3D" goes, I'm giving it to Klavier > Ema > Apollo > Judge > Phoenix > Maya > Edgeworth.
• "Okay, so it wasn't my finest hour. So sue me." What... what was Phoenix's easiest case ever?
• I know this is hypocritical after I approved of Tehm'pul Temple, but I cannot approve of Acolyte Zeh'lot, I'm sorry. However, Tahrust Inmee does win my approval.
• "See how he prays in the cold without moving a muscle?" *Zooms in on a still frame where no one is moving*
• I can tell immediately that Inmee is going to die and Maya is going to be arrested. 90% chance Zeh'lot is the killer.
• Ema's here? Guess she took a plane. She's on a first name basis with Maya? ... Have they even met before?
• "Nahyuta's a formidable opponent." I'm not really confident that's true, Ema. I'm not even 100% sure he's better than Gaspin Payne.
• "Warbaa'd Dagger" Shut up.
• How dare this detention center not have a camera in the upper-left corner for me to click on.
• I will admit that I did not expect Rayfa to be the next teenage girl sidekick, but in retrospect, I really should have seen that coming. Has there been a single teenage girl who didn't become the sidekick for at least a bit? I'm counting Franziska because she helps briefly in 3-5.
• Lanterns that always kept alight, eh? Here's a Jew story for you: in synagogues, there's supposed to be a flame that's always kept alight. However, in modern times, they're always just lightbulbs shaped like flames. When I was like six, I asked what they do when the lightbulb burns out, since there has to be at least a few seconds when they switch it out, and was told to be quiet. I asked a lot of questions like that as a kid and annoyed the adults. I don't feel bad, though, because I had to sit through hours of mindbogglingly boring services... although in truth, I skipped out of most of them and just wandered the synagogue grounds.
• We have confirmation now that Phoenix doesn't speak Khurai'nese, which means everyone else is speaking English. See, here's the thing. It's actually plausible that a tour guide, judge, and high-ranking members of royalty would all have learned English, and so would be able to communicate with Phoenix. But to suggest that they speak Japanese is insane, so this is like the only case of the "Phoenix is from LA" situation actually making more sense than the original.
• I actually really like Rayfa's embarrassed face.
• I only just now realized that Khurainism is named after the country, or the other way around. Can you imagine if Shinto was just named Japanesism?
• "Historical figures don't come back to life." - Maya "Screw Jesus" Fey, 2016.
• Escaped prisoner, big dangerous guy, guessing he's that guard who had an actual model in 6-1.
• An arrow with three prongs and a letter with three holes hmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmmm
• Actually, that hmmMMMmm reminds me, anyone else watched Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance? It kills me that it probably won't get a season 2, I loved it.
• Ah, the traditional ascetic mountain monk home, complete with a TV from 1995 and a portrait of that cigar-munching evil minister from the first case. Does anyone who smokes cigars not turn evil in fiction? And don't say Big Boss, we all know what happens with him.
• Beh'leeb. Name: Anagram-approved. What I don't approve of is that everyone was like "lol she's too pregnant to be in the ritual," but she doesn't look pregnant at all.
• Datz Are'bal
• I really like the idea of a Khura'inese ripoff of the Steel Samurai, that's a cute little bit of worldbuilding.
• The later games rely a little heavily on "character jumping back as wind blows at them" for surprise animations. Long gone are the days of a puppet's head and limbs exploding.
• I like the contrast of the ascetic life of the people with the ridiculous opulence of this throne room.
• "Being that I'm the queen's husband, that makes me king!" I actually read a whole article recently on why Britain has Prince Consorts instead of King Consorts, what a weird coincidence.
• Wait, Maya wants to keep her spirit channeling powers a secret? But wasn't her mother's failure national news, and people publicly went to Kurain to oh forget it.
• "While it is true you did not forge any evidence..." "I wasn't planning to do anything like that in the first place, Your Benevolence." I like that careful wording Phoenix uses, he doesn't say that he "would never" do something like that.

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Anagram posted...

Datz Are'bal

Yeah, now DATZ Are'bal!

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We have confirmation now that Phoenix doesn't speak Khurai'nese, which means everyone else is speaking English. See, here's the thing. It's actually plausible that a tour guide, judge, and high-ranking members of royalty would all have learned English, and so would be able to communicate with Phoenix. But to suggest that they speak Japanese is insane, so this is like the only case of the "Phoenix is from LA" situation actually making more sense than the original.

How do you know Japanese Phoenix doesn't just speak English too?

I kind of hate how they thought Maya being the defendant AGAIN was somehow clever. 4 times? Really?

And it reduces the amount of investigating with Maya in a game that was advertised as having Maya in it.

1-1 is easily Phoenix's easiest case! He solves the whole thing in 30 minutes!

People might know of Misty Fey, but that doesn't mean they know who Maya is (see 3-5). She might not be telling people her last name is Fey either.

Maya and Ema haven't met in a game, but I mean, there was a 7-year gap where we've seen nothing. It's possible they met at some point.

But Phoenix/Rayfa is a surprisingly good investigation team. That's one of the highlights of the case for me.

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Leonhart4 posted...

1-1 is easily Phoenix's easiest case! He solves the whole thing in 30 minutes!

I dunno, 2-1 was so easy he solved the whole thing while he had amnesia. Imagine how much faster he would've solved it if he hadn't been hit on the head

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I like Rayfa enough when she's not being intentionally obnoxious.

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Yeah but the fact that he did have to solve it with amnesia means it can't be an easier job than 1-1

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Also, Layton/AA would suggest that Japanese Phoenix does indeed know English! Maya, too.

(It's probably not canon, I know)

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i'm okay with AA4-6 not being canon

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TheOrgyPorgy posted...

i'm okay with AA4-6 not being canon

Nah, they're definitely canon! Capcom had their chance to retcon AJ with AA5 and didn't.

Layton/PW is the game that's probably not canon.

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Capcaom didn't retcon AJ in AA5 but pretended a lot of thigns from it didn't exist.

Then remembered again in AA6.

Things work great when you can just be proud of the story so far and build from it.

Raka_Putra posted...

Yeah, now DATZ Are'bal!

These puns are among the lamest in the series yet.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

How do you know Japanese Phoenix doesn't just speak English too?

Leonhart4 posted...

Also, Layton/AA would suggest that Japanese Phoenix does indeed know English! Maya, too.

(It's probably not canon, I know)

I'll admit I actually didn't consider this.

Raka_Putra posted...

I like Rayfa enough when she's not being intentionally obnoxious.

I don't want to make a new teenage girl sidekick list until I'm done with the game, but that'll be a category I rank, don't worry.

Leonhart4 posted...

1-1 is easily Phoenix's easiest case! He solves the whole thing in 30 minutes!

People might know of Misty Fey, but that doesn't mean they know who Maya is (see 3-5). She might not be telling people her last name is Fey either.

Maya and Ema haven't met in a game, but I mean, there was a 7-year gap where we've seen nothing. It's possible they met at some point.

But Phoenix/Rayfa is a surprisingly good investigation team. That's one of the highlights of the case for me.

1-1 might be it, though the fact that it was his first case might be a strike against it.

Maya was involved in a gigantic trial in 3-5 where her spirit channeling powers were the entire basis for everything, where a famous author/spirit channeler died and a lawyer bled to death!

I forgot to mention that I enjoyed Ema complaining that she missed the previous game.

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I think I enjoy Ema more with each game she's in.


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It was a big case in Japanifornia but it doesn't mean the average Khura'inese person knows her face or her name, especially nearly a decade later.

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