Board 8 > B8 ELECTS - The Election of 1812 - Madison (R) vs (DeWitt) Clinton (A)

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1788/1792 - The Federalists took the House and Senate with 100% of the vote
1796 - John Adams (F) d. Thomas Jefferson (DR) with 73.6% of the vote
1800 - John Adams (F) d. Thomas Jefferson (DR) with 80% of the vote
1804 - Thomas Jefferson (DR) d. Charles Pinckney (F) with 66% of the vote
1808 - James Madison (R) d. Charles Pincknet (F) and George Clinton (DR) with 42% of the vote

Hey all welcome to Board 8 Elects! a topic series in which we discuss each historical election from the perspective of the year it took place in!

The idea here is to re-litigate each election from the perspective of when it took place. I will be providing each candidates platform (where possible) so the merits of the election can be discussed and voted on. If possible lets speak of the issues in the present tense.

I am going to ask you vote via BOLDING the name of the candidate rather than providing a poll because I feel the poll encourages gut voting and I would really like to see some discussion.

Topics will be live for 3 or 4 days - basically until I make the next topic voting will be active in this one.

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Welcome to the Election of 1812 - the country is at war! And the country is more or less split on whether or not they even support it. And that's IN SPITE of the fact that the war is here in the United States and has featured British Soldiers and their Native American allies winning most of the early battles.

Meet the Candidates:
The Republicans have nominated 61 year old incumbent president James Madison for the presidency once again, and are de facto the pro-war party this time around as it was Madison, not the British, who declared the war. George Clinton died in 1811 and was not likely to appear on the ticket again after the stunt he pulled. In an attempt to win support in New England, where the war is staggeringly unpopular, they have nominated 68 year old Governor of Massachusetts, Elbridge Gerry.

The Anti-War Ticket was formed when Northern Republicans and Federalists who oppose the war decided to band together to form a ticket to defeat Madison. The plan was to nominate George Clinton and with his death the plan has gone ahead with his nephew, the 43 year old Mayor of New York City/Lieutenant Governor of New York State, DeWitt Clinton. To balance the ticket, 63-year old Federalist Attorney General of Pennsylvania, Jared Ingersoll has joined with Republican Clinton as a unity ticket.

The Issues of the Day

• The War of 1812 the culmination of all of the early american problems all in one place so let's dig in. As part of their long continued war efforts against Napoleonic France, Great Britain has had a policy of blockade and prevention of trade with the French by anyone. The United States, since Jefferson, has been unwilling to abide by this rule demanding the ability to trade with France and French colonies. There have been a number of affairs where violence has broken out between British naval officers and american soldiers. In 1811, a British blockade ship, the Littlebelt, came into conflict with a coast guard gunship the USS President and exchanged fire, resulting in the death of 11 British soldiers and raising the stakes of the British/American conflict over trade.
• Meanwhile, American territorial aims west of the Mississippi have hit a roadblock. Native Americans, realizing that individually they stood no chance of defending their territory all along the resource rich Great Lakes shores, have begun to band together. Under the leadership of Tecumseh, who in turn is merely presenting himself as the warrior of The Prophet is preaching a gospel of pan-Native strength and has formed a confederation of the Shawnee, Creek, Ojibwe, Iroquois, Miami, Mingo, Ottawa, Kickapoo, Delaware, Lenape, Mascouten, Potawatomi, Sauk, and Wyandot natives to counter American territorial expansion into Illinois and Michigan. The British, sensing an opportunity, have been sending arms and ammunition to Tecumseh and have been boostering his cause against the Americans. Sensing an opportunity to curry favor, the Cherokee Nation has pledged loyalty to the United States.
• Finally, American belief in Manifest Destiny, the idea that it is the role of the American Nation to dominate the entire continent has resulted in a strong push among politicians to annex Canada, and mistakenly fostered a belief that most Canadians would support joining the United States if given the opportunity.
• This triple cocktail of desire for Indian-held territory, Canadian territory, and delicious delicious trade with the French, as well as the realization that the primary British forces will be occupied with battles against Napoleon have led Madison to believe he may be able to quickly win a series of victories against the British and be able to sue for peace while they still have more important things to worry about. But the early days of the war have gone poorly, with Tecumseh's Confederation winning a series of victories in the West and US South and a push into Canada going disastrously. The war is in general popular in the South (where trade with France is vital to their economic interests) and in the West (where desire for land and hatred for the Native Americans runs hot) and unpopular in New England (who have suffered dearly under the sudden cessation of trade with England)and in the Middle States, where the embarrassing losses have many wishing to simply cut our losses.
• These are minor issues in this campaign, but Madison allowed the charter for the First National Bank to expire, but he did not actively repeal it, resulting in drawing the ire of basically everyone.
• He walked back portions of the Embargo act to allow trade with France, which immediately blew up in his face and led to this war.

The Campaign

• Madison realizes his campaign is a deeply regional one and simply does all he can to promote the war effort. His ire is focused mainly on the Indians and on boostering this idea of American pride and exceptionalism.
• Madison has been flagged for being a largely incompetent Commander-in-Chief. Under his leadership the military languished and grew to be outdated in its outfitting even as Madison advocated for war with a militarily superior Great Britain. And in the west, he allowed a political appointee, James Wilkinson, to continue to oversee Louisiana Territory despite his mismanagement of the territory's defense and his inability to combat a malaria outbreak.
• Madison has remained deeply deeply unpopular with his own party outside of the South. The Republican party has for years focused on Southern interests to the detriment of Northern ones and his refusal to enact certain key Democratic-Republican platform points, in particular his continued support for the National Bank and insistence on running up a large national debt has led to a fracture in the Republican Party. Even people who would normally vote Republican have a deep dislike of Madison personally, which had them planning to run George Clinton as the standard bearer of a new Party. With Clinton's death however they have been forced to improvise and have gone with his nephew hoping to trade on the legacy of George Clinton.
• The Anti-War effort has revived a flagging Federalist party who are preparing to take back the House, but they have no organization outside New England and Pennsylvania and have joined forces with the young and little known DeWitt Clinton. Clinton's allies have used his lack of national profile to his advantage, running as pro-war, but anti-Madison, in the west and South and as anti-war in the North and New England. His true views are unknown as he is merely standing for election and not actively campaigning.

War or No War? Let's Vote!

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Afternoon vote

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I vote Madison because war is necessary sometimes. He messed up with the embargo act and France so he needs to fix it.

this election kinda really sucks

fuck war and american exceptionalism, and fuck voting for an empty suit figurehead with no real positions or stances

This election sucks may well be the 1812 overture

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I voted in all of the previous elections, but here I may have to abstain. Madison looks like a bad choice, but I have almost no idea what Clinton stands for.

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That was sort of the entire point of Clinton!

People at the time kinda assumed "like George but less out there"

His accomplishments as Mayor include founding the New York Historical Society and creating a major endowment for what would become the New York Public Library. He helped organize funding for the American Academy of the Arts. And, currently in his third term as mayor, is considered to be the best mayor New York City has had to this point.

He has also spent most of the last ten years trying to get work on the Erie Canal started and construction on this major work has begun as of 1811, though the war has badly disrupted this major infrastructure project. He personally has served as surveyor for the project and is a well known naturalist, advocating for the creation of wildlife preserves in New York.

But in regards to foreign policy, his stance on the war and other national issues he has utterly no profile.

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I was already very strongly considering voting for Pinckney in the last couple of elections despite his "nothingness" as a candidate, as an alternative to the continuation of Virginia Democratic-Republican tomfuckery. But I voted for Madison (which I almost immediately regretted and considered amending), and all of his worst impulses seem to be in the process of being realized. DeWitt Clinton is a New Yorker, which means he doesn't own slaves, and his record as mayor of New York sounds pretty damn positive, so at this point I'm willing to take a chance on a relative unknown rather than staying the current, potentially disastrous course.

Dewitt Clinton

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DeWitt Clinton ina heartbeat.

Madison is horrible and the record Clinton has in New York has some great stuff. And hey he will be hard pressed to be worse on the big issues than Madison

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DeWitt Clinton

So I've been like, very highly skeptical of the idea of someone being a "nothing" candidate in a lot of these elections - I really do think it probably applied to Pinckney (slave owner anyway, fuckin' meh) but in general it's really important to remember that the winners write history, or at the very least, get to have the history written about him. Madison has been badly overrated by history 'cause he won but honestly he kinda sucked and hey, maybe DeWitt Clinton would have been a lot better. Anyway I voted for Pinckney anyway so this seems like a no-brainer for me.

Yeah from a meta perspective these early elections are hard because, outside of 1800, the DRs had completely dominated politics for most of this and the people who ran against them didn't really run for election - they just STOOD for election

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Morning bump

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Giving this another bump hoping for a few more votes.

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Clinton

I don't like this vote, though.

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DeWitt Clinton

I'm going to go ahead and say Madison was a pretty bad president, by the metric of 'he completely pooched foreign policy and could well have bumbled into the destruction of the US if the Brits decided they wanted that'. Definitely the low point of an otherwise pretty decent political career

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Clinton
https://i.imgur.com/G1F1ECN.jpg

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Clinton
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