Board 8 > BOARD 8 ELECTS - Election of 1800 - Adams (F) vs Jefferson (DR) (vs Burr (DR))

(+) Yeah! (+)

1788/1792 - The Federalists took the House and Senate with 100% of the vote
1796 - John Adams (F) d. Thomas Jefferson (DR) with 73.6% of the vote

Hey all welcome to Board 8 Elects! a topic series in which we discuss each historical election from the perspective of the year it took place in!

The idea here is to re-litigate each election from the perspective of when it took place. I will be providing each candidates platform (where possible) so the merits of the election can be discussed and voted on. If possible lets speak of the issues in the present tense.

I am going to ask you vote via BOLDING the name of the candidate rather than providing a poll because I feel the poll encourages gut voting and I would really like to see some discussion.

Topics will be live for 3 or 4 days - basically until I make the next topic voting will be active in this one.

Welcome to the election of 1800 - the two candidates may be the same but the mood of the country has shifted dramatically in the last 4 years.

The Adams presidency saw the country embroiled in the Quasi-War a conflict between The US, Great Britain and France (with some Spanish/French interminglings tossed in for flavor).

The Democratic Republicans have made dramatic gains in Congress after the unpopularity of the Alien and Sedition acts moved the Democratic Republicans back to the mainstream after being pushed to the fringe in the aftermath of the Whiskey Rebellion. Jefferson has served as vice-president and used the post to snipe at Adams. They have also begun to wield the power of newspapers to wage war on the Federalists, who are now without the active services of the now-retired flamethrower Alexander Hamilton. The election looming is bound to be an ugly one.

Let's Meet the Candidates

The Federalist Party has renominated the sitting President 65-year old John Adams. They have selected the younger brother of his previous running mate, South Carolina Governor Charles Cotesworth Pinckney to be his running mate this time for the same reasons as last time, hoping to earn southern electoral votes.

The Democratic-Republicans have also chosen to run the same candidate as last time, 57 year old sitting Vice President, Thomas Jefferson. They have also chosen to run Aaron Burr, who has previously served as both Senator and Governor of New York following holding a commission in the Continental Army, as his running mate once again, though there were murmurings in the party that wished they could switch the order of the ticket on account of Jefferson's Francophilia being politically unpopular.

The Issues

• The Quasi-War still looms large, as the last two years have been spent in an undeclared war with France. The crux of the issue is that the United States under Federalist rule decided to suspend payments on their debts owed to the French, reasoning those debts were owed to King Louis and the Bourbons and not France itself. France began to seize american ships and cargo to cover this debt and more. This had led to the US fighting alongside the British in their wars against Napoleon and at times seeing American sailors impressed to fight in that conflict as payment for that aid. Adams reached an agreement with the French to cease hostilities to avoid having to commit American naval forces to the War of the Second Coalition. The Democratic Republicans blame this war on the Jay Treaty blaming Adams for both the war and for British behavior. Some Federalists meanwhile think Adams was too soft on the French in this and should have pressed further to secure increased trade with the British empire.
• In order to fund the above war, there was another internal tax levied, this one a direct tax on land, houses, and most controversially slaves. This was perceived as a political decision with the Southern landowners that were most effected by the tax being the base of the Democratic-Republican party. This led to another armed revolt, Fries' Rebellion, which saw the Pennsylvania Dutch rise up and need to be put down by the now even larger federal army. The Democratic-Republicans swear to roll back these taxes as well as the other domestic taxes on liquor. Adams has dramatically expanded the size of the standing army, something which the Democratic Republicans fear will be used for tyrannical purpose.
• The Federalists passed the Alien and Sedition Acts two years ago. In short, they restrict immigration making it more difficult to become an American citizen and granted the state wide powers to imprison and deport non-citizens for crimes or conspiracies against the US. It also criminalized the act of making false statements about the US Government. The Democratic-Republicans again cry Tyranny
• The Federalists still claim that the Democratic Republicans are too pro-France, especially in light of some highly flattering commentary by Jefferson regarding Napoleon Bonaparte, the new Consul of France who is increasingly seen as the hero of the Revolution. There is a general sense that France will be able to take advantage of Jefferson, causing many to eye Aaron Burr as way to have their cake and eat it too....

The Campaign

• There were a number of surprises and wild accusations flying in the press. Nearly every newspaper in the country is in open support of one candidate or the other. The accusations range from the colorful to the politically damning with Jefferson and Adams only thinly veiled by pseudonym flinging mud at one another. Adams has accused Jefferson of fathering children with his slaves and generally merely playing pretend at his supposed grand convictions, scoring political points by pointing out the hypocrisy of supported armed revolts against supposed tyranny in the morning and then owning slaves in the evening. Other Federalists have called Jefferson a 'secret atheist' Meanwhile Jefferson has called Adams obese and has accused him of being hermaphroditic and unmanly, calling his decisions cowardly and insinuating that Adams love for ships and armies and wielding power against immigrants is compensating for his otherwise feminine character.

• A pair of powerful letters were released which have shaken the electorate. The first, penned by Alexander Hamilton, shreds Adams for his leadership of the Federalist party, in particular criticizing his handling of the Quasi-War. Mostly the letter focuses on the personality of Adams, calling him unfit to hold the office of "chief magistrate".
• The other letter is a letter written by Jefferson four years earlier which has been leaked in Federalist papers. In the letter Jefferson implies that he viewed Washington as something of a tyrant or at least betraying republican principles in the manner in which he conducted himself. Washington is far more beloved than either candidate and this has been seen as a truly incendiary missive.
• The intensity of this campaign and the likelihood that the Federalists will be defeated has begun a campaign to draft Burr into stealing the election. The move is seen as controversial and un-democratic but with a large amount of Congress both wishing for a change in direction but to avoid being ruled by Jefferson....Burr has become an attractive option. Burr is seen as both willing to walk back the excesses of the Adams era, such as the large standing army and high tax rates, without risking the eccentricities of a Jefferson administration. This is technically doable because all that would need to happen is for Burr to finish with the highest number of electoral votes. Burr has been silent on it.

SPECIAL - Burr can win this election, but only if Adams comes in third place while still collecting enough votes to combine with Burr to hold 66% of the vote, representing Burr's narrow path to victory.

---

I love how Adam is actually calling Jefferson out on his hypocrisy and Jefferson responds with "You're fat."

---

Let's talk about the Quasi-War!

Going back to the Jay Treaty, it truly did represent a choice to at least tacitly ally with Great Britian in its conflict with France (though officially they remained neutral). At the time it was signed, the US truly did not have a reliable trading partner once the French Monarchy's dissolution sent their empire's holdings into anarchy

The Jay Treaty was wildly successful at opening up bilateral trade with Great Britain, as the US was able to triple its exports in that time and helped expand the burgeoning American economy. France however, felt slighted. This move signaled that the US would not be reversing its position on repaying the debts owed to them. Further the French viewed this trade as material support for their foes and would not allow the US to deliver vital supplies to the British.

The Washington and Adams administrations held that that debt was owed to the Bourbons and the French crown and NOT to the revolutonary french government. This resulted in French privateers seizing American ships with privateers and bringing them to French ports to be awarded a bounty on any such ship. American citizens on board the ships were then impressed into service to the crown. The Adams admin sought to bring an end to this and appointed an Ambassador (Federalist vice presidential candidate) Charles Cotesworth Pinckney. He was refused and Pinckney soon became a living symbol of the French's unwillingness to negotiate or listen to reason .

Over the course of the two year conflict the French seized over 2000 American merchant ships and many more of its merchant marines. Adams Administration created the Department of the Navy and the United States Marine Corps to protect American ships which led to naval battles between the French and Americans. The British navy also got involved since they were fighting the same privateers that the Americans were. The British and Americans were not officially allied but they did communicate in the field and the British ended their embargo on sales of munitions to the US.

Hostilities may have increased further and drawn the US further into the British-French conflict if not for the rise of Napoleon as First consul. Unlike his predecessors in the chaotic Directory government, he was willing to meet and discuss with the Americans and make a deal. Napoleon agreed to stop trying to collect on the debt and was willing to re-affirm the Americans' status as neutrals in exchange for that becoming reality and the US butting out of the conflict which Adams was more than happy to do.

---

Let's talk about Haiti!

So by now, the Haitians have a simmering conflict on their hands. It's not likely to shape many votes from the electorate so I don't have it listed but it is a good example of a concrete example of American foreign policy on the Britain - France dilemma spectrum.

But regardless its really more than simmering....its boiling over. Led by former slave and the first black general in the French Army, Toussaint Louverture there has been an open slave revolt there since 1791. Louverture has fought on the side of whoever was more willing to ensure the end of slavery on the island.

By 1800 Louverture has succeeded in freeing the slaves from nearly the entire island and is in control of Saint-Domingue and has begun to construct a government.

Adams supports the Louverture government and is the only government in the world that recognizes it as legitimate. Their detente with the British has freed them to be able to oppose the French in Haiti. Jefferson sees this slave revolt with two minds but his political allies are terrified of what a successful slave revolt would do to their own livelihoods and Jefferson sees providing support to Napoleon in Haiti as a way to curry favor.

---

The most controversial of the new laws permitting strong government control over individual actions was the Addition Act. In essence, this Act prohibited public opposition to the government. Fines and imprisonment could be used against those who "write, print, utter, or publish . . . any false, scandalous and malicious writing" against the government. Under this law over 20 Republican newspaper editors were arrested and some were imprisoned. The most dramatic victim of the law was Congressman Lyon of Vermont. His letter that criticized President Adams' "unbounded thirst for ridiculous pomp, foolish adulation, and self avarice" caused him to be imprisoned. While Federalists sent Lyon to prison for his opinions, his constituents reelected him to Congress even from his jail cell.

The Alien Act meanwhile gave the executive branch broad powers to deport immigrants in an attempt to be able to curtail French spying during the Quasi War.

The acts were considered plainly unconstitutional but the courts were filled with Federalist judges and so the Democratic Republicans didn't even try to oppose them in federal court, instead focusing on courts in Democratic Republican states and territories like Kentucky.

These are wildly unpopular even with people who normally vote Federalist.

---

I'll definitely have to think about this one. I really want to stand by my guy, Adams, but the Alien and Sedition Acts are a really serious blight on an otherwise very strong first term. I have no problems with the way he managed the Quasi-War, but especially with the Sedition Act, he seems to have fallen for the paranoia of the opposition. (The Alien Act is also alarming, particularly when you consider the potential long-term ramifications of such a broad, sweeping, and badly thought-out piece of legislation.) Meanwhile, though, his criticisms of Jefferson are entirely valid and only serve to further underscore the reasons I wasn't able to bring myself to support him the first time around.

Very, very tempted to vote for Burr, here. The Jeffersonian faction really are too pro-France at this juncture, but Burr may be able to harness the strengths of the better liberty-centric Democratic-Republican causes while at the same time reining in the more "unfortunate" aspects of the party, i.e. the interests of the Southern landed elite.

---

Burr

---

Jefferson

---

but nobody knows what Burr stands for

---

I'll give this a bump for the afternoon crowd

---

Yeah this is definitely a tough one. Pretty much for the same reasons KBM had. Is there anything else we know about Aaron Burr? He seems like the strongest pick, but that might just be by virtue of him not seeming as bad as the other two

---

Okay I'm actually going to vote here. My vote is for Adams. The main issues he has against him are the Alien and Sedition acts, but they were SO unpopular that they were known political poison, and the worst of them (Sedition act) would automatically expire in 1801 anyway. The Alien Enemies act is still around! In contrast Jefferson really was a bit of a turd on slavery, too kissy with the French, and Haiti is still pretty boned today in part due to the calculations made at that time (not all Jefferson of course, but Adams' policy was significantly more benign).

---

Going with Adams

I don't really like a lot of his policies, but he's at least not actively enslaving people, and his criticisms hold more merit.

---

Adams
---

Discussed in PM but I think I would vote for Adams

havent really researched tho

---

Who is Aaron Burr?

On the national level he is something of an unknown. He served as an officer in the Continental Army but unlike Hamilton he did not serve in a high profile role directly under Washington. He was not involved in the Constitutional Convention or the previous government, only getting into politics in the last decade.

He was Senator for a single term when the Democratic Republicans held the governorship of New York (remember Senators were appointed by the governor at this time, they were not directly elected). He is seen as a rising star within the Democratic-Republican party. He is the chief political strategist for the Party as well as one of its key financiers after founding the Bank of Manhattan. The strategy of purchasing newspapers all over the country to run their propaganda openly was his idea and was seen as controversial (openly campaigning for office was seen as uncouth) until it became clear that it was working at which point all hell broke loose.

The Bank of Manhattan (which persists to this day in the form of Chase) is actually the main source of his rivalry with Hamilton in these later years as his bank was willing to lend to Democratic-Republican interests in New York City, as previously all banks were held by the Federalists. His willingness to lend to anyone made him fabulously wealthy and a bit of a hero to the Party faithful. His bank allowed people to acquire enough property to gain the vote so he was literally tripling or quadrupling the eligible voterbase in New York City since he was willing to lend to people who belonged to the Democratic-Republican Party, something Hamilton's Bank of New York doggedly refused to do. Burr's maneuver turned New York from a Federalist stronghold to a fairly disputed state. However in order to do so, he tricked Hamilton and the Federalists by claiming he was chartering a badly needed Water Company. Burr argues this trickery was necessary as Hamilton was suppressing the franchise while Hamilton and the Federalists maintain that his reneging on his promise to build a safe water system caused deaths by malaria.

So Burr is a pro-Business, moderate and urban Democratic-Republican who has a bit of a reputation for chicanery and underhanded tactics. He doesn't appear to have particularly strong views on France and England but instead appears mainly concerned with rolling back the Land Use tax.

---

What is a Land Use Tax?

This was seen as controversial at the time but....what is it?

It is a direct tax on land and property ownership. Rather than taxing specific commodities - or other regressive flat taxes - the theory behind this tax is that land being a limited and valuable resource because the supply of land is fixed and its location value is created by communities and public works. As such, a Land Value Tax allows the community to profit from the use of the land that taxes make usable in the first place.

A land value tax is a progressive tax, in that the tax burden falls on titleholders in proportion to the value of locations, the ownership of which is highly correlated with overall wealth and income.

In the specific case, the Property Tax was derived from economic theory forwarded by economist Adam Smith in Wealth of Nations. It was a tax designed to create 2 million dollars of revenue of which each state was meant to provide a certain percentage. Pennsylvania's somewhat unique makeup of having large family run farms held by the Pennsylvania Dutch or Quaker communities that did not have revenues concomitant with that size and was instantly incredibly unpopular.

This tax drove resentment of the Adams admin both in the south and in Pennsylvania and New York. Eventually, several hundred farmers took up arms under the leadership of John Fries. At Bethlehem, Pa., Fries and his men forced, by intimidation rather than by actual violence, the release of a group of tax resisters who had been imprisoned under the custody of the federal marshal.

Ultimately federal troops marched on Pennsylvania and soon quashed the rebellion.

Thirty men went on trial in Federal court. Fries and two others were tried for treason and, with Federalists stirring up a frenzy, were sentenced to be hanged. President John Adams pardoned Fries and others convicted of treason. Adams was prompted by the narrower constitutional definition of treason, and he later added that the rebels were "as ignorant of our language as they were of our laws" and were being used by "great men" in the opposition party.

The issue still looms large with German Americans all over skeptical of the Federalist party.

---

Oh wow I guess Burr is just as bad as the other two if not worse. Gotta go Adams on this one then.

Also gotta say I'm loving this topic series. It's weird that I'm learning more about US history and politics on Board 8 than I ever did in high school

---

Yeah I have been encouraged by a few different users (including @Maniac64 ) to find a way to just talk about various historical topics and this seemed like a good fun way for me to do that while still turning it into a bit of a game.

There was a lot of interesting stuff going on but a lot of these are stories we don't bother to tell anymore.

---

Yeah you've convinced me.

Adams

The positives of his first term greatly outweigh the negatives, and I'll take the Alien and Sedition Acts over outright slavery any day.

---

I was trying to be neutral!

---

Up

---

Still love reading you talk history!

I really hate the alien and sedition acts and worry about federalists trying to overreach further.

But I dont agree with the DR party on most of their major issues and worry Jefferson will pull us back into the French/British conflict but now on Napoleons side.

Plus Jeffersons personal attacks on Adam's are doing nothing to persuade me.

I'll just have to hope a stronger DR party can keep the Feds in check and that the unpopularity of the alien and sedition acts makes Adam's back off them.

Adams


---

I am gonna do the next topic in a few hours since this one is such a stomp but one last chance to vote and discuss.

---

Adams, the alien and sedition acts are bullshit, but I like Adams's support for the Louverturian government and he's still anti-abolitionist and all that shit, there are no really great options here but I'm sticking with my support for the Federalists

Gonna have to vote for ol' Adams on this one.

---

It is interesting thinking "jeez modern political candidates can't get any worse" and then you look back through history and it's like "oh jeez I guess everyone outside of like three guys had a bunch of problems too".

Adams, although his alien and sedition acts are egregiously bad.

---

Eddv posted...

I was trying to be neutral!

And it was through no fault of your own; your write-ups have been fantastic. I genuinely didn't know about the Land Use tax, and learning about that and Burr's position on it was what ended up swaying me back to Adams (who, despite the Alien and Sedition Acts (which were indeed very bad), still ends up being among my personal favorite Presidents in US history).

---