Current Events > Despite our military spending, China could wipe us out in 30 minutes

(+) Yeah! (+)

SH_expert44 posted...

Its funny how people underestimate the US military so much.

It's actually quite the opposite. We over-estimate ourselves and under-estimate others. None of that is relevant in a true war scenario that would wipe out both countries anyway though.

Daphneries39 posted...

And btw, we need China far more than they need us. Any complete cutoff between the two countries would lead to our economy crashing far worse than theirs.

No we don't.

The entire world doesn't need China, the world was in a better state before Bill Clinton let China into the WTO.

We'd do the world a solid by Black Listing China and kicking them back out of the WTO.

Not doing business with China and Black Listing them amongst all Western Democracies would do EVERYBODY a solid.

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Daphneries39 posted...

Having better planes, jets, carriers is all irrelevant. They possess the most powerful nuclear weapon on the planet. With one push of a button, the entire US would be wiped out in 30 mins. In a war with zero nukes, of course we'd win - but you can guarantee that if we ever went to war with China, it would turn nuclear and both countries would be wiped out. None of our advanced air or naval power would mean shit-all.

And btw, we need China far more than they need us. Any complete cutoff between the two countries would lead to our economy crashing far worse than theirs.

Is red China paying you or something? We got bases all around them, pretty sure they're not just for show. But please tell us more commie propaganda, it's entertaining.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

No we don't.

The entire world doesn't need China, the world was in a better state before Bill Clinton let China into the WTO.

We'd do the world a solid by Black Listing China and kicking them back out of the WTO.

Not doing business with China and Black Listing them amongst all Western Democracies would do EVERYBODY a solid.

I was gonna say this, tc wrong again. We could build cheap shit all over the world , we dont need China at all. But their growth is totally dependent on trade with the US , the greatest free market in the world.

Get rekt tc, like China would. Why dont you go move to China since you love them?

Daphneries39 posted...

It's actually quite the opposite. We over-estimate ourselves and under-estimate others. None of that is relevant in a true war scenario that would wipe out both countries anyway though.

We don't over-estimate ourselves. That's why we're constantly improving, gathering intelligence on the opposition. Working on new solutions.

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Keith_Valentine posted...

I was gonna say this, tc wrong again. We could build cheap shit all over the world , we dont need China at all. But their growth is totally dependent on trade with the US , the greatest free market in the world.

With modern AI & Automation becoming ever cheaper by the day, it's only a matter of time till we bring it back home and have our automated assembly plants take over.

Minimize the human factor and we get better efficiencies then any cheapo labor being paid 3rd world labor rates can offer.

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CE's weird worship of Chinese propaganda continues to confuse me.

They are paying you guys, right? That's it?

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Daphneries39 posted...

It's actually quite the opposite. We over-estimate ourselves and under-estimate others. None of that is relevant in a true war scenario that would wipe out both countries anyway though.

Are you serious? How often do you hear that the US military is full of idiots, and only go after "weaker" countries, and then those "lol u couldnt even beat farmerz and civilians in mountains!!!!" type of people?

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DanSmithK7 posted...

Also, defense spending is over-inflated. It's basically good old boys buying from good old boys, at prices set to take care of fellow good old boys, using outdated, archaic, arcane purchasing vehicles. If they sold pencils they'd probably cost 10$ per pencil.

Adding to that, their purchases are not strategic, they're made to benefit contractors. It's like MOOAARR TAANKKSSSS!! MOOAARRRR ROCKETS!!! GO BOOM!. Need more stategic missiles? Need more drones? Need cyber warefare? SHUT UP AND TAKE THESE 100000 TANKS!

This is a good point, but Im still not scared of Chinas military. Whats concerning is the amount of business they own here.


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In all seriousness, while the US have enjoyed decades of military supremacy, and is still technically better equipped than their enemies, Russia and China are catching up quickly and formidably. With Russia's newest nuclear submarines that are equal (some would say better) than the US's Los Angeles or Virginia class submarines and China's numerical advantage (vs technological advantages), the US cannot sit idly by and must act to maintain its top role in being a global superpower.

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IdiotMachine posted...

In all seriousness, while the US have enjoyed decades of military supremacy, and is still technically better equipped than their enemies, Russia and China are catching up quickly and formidably. With Russia's newest nuclear submarines that are equal (some would say better) than the US's Los Angeles or Virginia class submarines and China's numerical advantage (vs technological advantages), the US cannot sit idly by and must act to maintain its top role in being a global superpower.

they dont truly care.

if they cared about staying a superpower they would know that nobody can be the military superpower without having domestic production capabilities.

as war drags on you have to produce more weapons, replace ammo, replace downed tanks/aircrafts/drones/equipment, etc etc etc. what are we going to do, ask China to produce more stuff for us in the midst of war with them or with Russia?

covid showed us how were fucked once we need something from China and cant produce it ourselves, such as face masks and respirators. It would be even more dramatic with weapons.

China can replace its weapons, equipment and ammo. We can... ask real nicely to third countries to produce it for us? Or maybe we can pay top money to contractors to produce it for us?

IdiotMachine posted...

In all seriousness, while the US have enjoyed decades of military supremacy, and is still technically better equipped than their enemies, Russia and China are catching up quickly and formidably. With Russia's newest nuclear submarines that are equal (some would say better) than the US's Los Angeles or Virginia class submarines and China's numerical advantage (vs technological advantages), the US cannot sit idly by and must act to maintain its top role in being a global superpower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia-class_submarine

We have a new class of Nuclear Submarines in the works.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia-class_submarine

We have a new class of Nuclear Submarines in the works.

I'm aware. It won't enter service for another decade.

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The US and Russia would team up again to destroy China. China is much more of a threat to Russia then the United States is. With Chinas population booming, and Russias dying out faster and faster, how long until China starts eyeballing Outer Manchuria/Siberia that Russia annexed from them 150 years ago? That land is low on people and rich in resources. You think China doesnt resent that huge loss of face? And they are right next to each other, we are all the way across the ocean. If China goes down, its great for Russia. If China wins, its horrible for them. And thats not our only ally. Barely anyone fucking likes China

Keith_Valentine posted...

how long until China starts eyeballing Outer Manchuria/Siberia that Russia annexed from them 150 years ago?

China invades Siberia
Russia: Hey! You cannot just annex our territory like that, it's illegal!
Crimea: Sucks, doesn't it?

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Nuclear weaponry is like a dick measuring contest between dildos. In reality, everyone that has them at this point knows that using them is basically signalling the end of multiple nations--if not humanity itself. The purpose of having them is essentially "Mine's bigger!" and being a deterrent from anyone trying to attack you. That said, they immediately lose that effect if you use them--once they know you WILL use them the "deterrent" aspect turns in to a "We have to end this nation" most likely at this point. If anyone were to use them, they'd likely essentially become the next World War's nazi's in history. Ironic given the circumstances there.

Unnecessary posted...

Anything that a civilian knows is last decades news

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Daphneries39 posted...

https://youtu.be/nGHXDmRxiG8

all hail emperor Xi

I'll also add that while China is no joke, there is a lot of Soviet era fear mongering coming from them. Lots of "we have fabled super weapons and AI etc..." to pump up their image. I'd take claims from them with a grain of salt.

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Teen Girl Squad posted...

I'll also add that while China is no joke, there is a lot of Soviet era fear mongering coming from them. Lots of "we have fabled super weapons and AI etc..." to pump up their image. I'd take claims from them with a grain of salt.

Russia is dangerous for different reasons.

They have assassins everywhere (look at all those people getting killed via poison in the uk by russia!), they tend to kompromat (compromise) western politicians and turn them into russian assets (e.g. the orange boy, moscow mitch and rand paul) and they're GREAT at intervening in foreign elections and also at sowing discord at western democracies by using social media (e.g. the 2016 election and all of the campaigns they made to pit black vs white americans).

that red sparrow movie with the very unlikable jeniffer lawrence is not that far off from reality

The Chinese have less than 300 nukes. The Soviets peaked at 40,000 and the Russians still have thousands. These topics are cute.

KillerKhan420 posted...

Is red China paying you or something? We got bases all around them, pretty sure they're not just for show. But please tell us more commie propaganda, it's entertaining.

LOL you America nationalists never cease to surprise me. I'm not a "commie" or anything like that - I'm just telling it like it is. In the event we go to war with China, our country will no longer cease to exist. Period.

Having bases all around them is irrelevant. One push of a button and the US is wiped off the map within 30 mins. None of those extra bases, planes, etc. matter at all in a nuclear war, something constantly stated by indepedent military experts. And they have a nuclear weapon much better than anything in our vast stockpile.

Atralis posted...

The Chinese have less than 300 nukes. The Soviets peaked at 40,000 and the Russians still have thousands. These topics are cute.

All of that means nothing. How does the stockpile of nukes matter when you need less than a dozen to completely wipe out a continent? Additionally, the Chinese have the best nuclear arsenal and the most powerful nuclear weapon in the D-41. The total number of nukes is completely irrelevant. Any nation with 10 working nukes can completely bring about the end the world.

But since we are actually comparing nuclear weapons, the Chinese have the most effective and powerful nukes currently in existence.

armandro posted...

if we got wiped out in a nuke would the bible still survive?

The Bible pretty much predicts this, dude.

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Daphneries39 posted...

All of that means nothing. How does the stockpile of nukes matter when you need less than a dozen to completely wipe out a continent? Additionally, the Chinese have the best nuclear arsenal and the most powerful nuclear weapon in the D-41.

The chinese subs are crap compared to the Soviet ones from the 1980's. The Chinese nukes have less yield, accuracy and about 1% of the numbers than the Soviet ones in the 1980's did. MAD is not a new thing and the Chinese have basically kept an arsenal for deterance not total destruction like the US and the Soviet Union did at the peak of the Cold War.

You have no idea what you are talking about and I do. Spend 10 minutes researching nuclear stockpiles throughout the years and then post again till then stop.

Atralis posted...

The chinese subs are crap compared to the Soviet ones from the 1980's. The Chinese nukes have less yield, accuracy and about 1% of the numbers than the Soviet ones in the 1980's did. MAD is not a new thing and the Chinese have basically kept an arsenal for deterance not total destruction like the US and the Soviet Union did at the peak of the Cold War.

You have no idea what you are talking about and I do. Spend 10 minutes researching nuclear stockpiles throughout the years and then post again till then stop.

Completely wrong on the Chinese nukes. You are living in the past. As for subs you're right but we are not talking about subs, we are talking about ballistic missiles. All those nukes of destruction from the 80s you are talking about? The new Chinese D-41 completely blows them out of the water. They currently have the most powerful and effective nukes in the world. This isn't my opinion, this is from indepedendent military think tanks that analyze this stuff.

Here's Business Insider's ranking of nuclear arsenals:
https://www.businessinsider.com/9-nuclear-nations-arsenals-ranked-us-vs-russia-china-wins-2019-1

China at #1 and that was before they developed all their latest nuclear weapons such as the D-41.

Your entire argument that you are trying to make is irrelevant. In a war against China, both countries get wiped out. That's all there is to it. Having all those extra planes, bases, etc is irrelevant in a war with a nuclear power.

Bait topic

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So the position here seems to be that in a war with China, if nukes are involved, both countries are fucked.

Pretty wild and out there, but I'm not a military strategist, so maybe it's right.

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mrgoatthief posted...

The was a bible aboard one of the space probes, wasn't there?

Probably not anymore. Unless they shielded the absolute shit out of that probe, the pages that hadn't broken down yet would be completely bleached.

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Daphneries39 posted...

Completely wrong on the Chinese nukes. You are living in the past. As for subs you're right but we are not talking about subs, we are talking about ballistic missiles. All those nukes of destruction from the 80s you are talking about? The new Chinese D-41 completely blows them out of the water. They currently have the most powerful and effective nukes in the world. This isn't my opinion, this is from indepedendent military think tanks that analyze this stuff.

Here's Business Insider's ranking of nuclear arsenals:
https://www.businessinsider.com/9-nuclear-nations-arsenals-ranked-us-vs-russia-china-wins-2019-1

China at #1 and that was before they developed all their latest nuclear weapons such as the D-41.

Your entire argument that you are trying to make is irrelevant. In a war against China, both countries get wiped out. That's all there is to it. Having all those extra planes, bases, etc is irrelevant in a war with a nuclear power.

My point isn't that China couldn't kill vast numbers of Americans blowing up basically every major city its that this isn't a new worry. It as an old worry when most kids fretting in this topic's parents were children. The Soviets had the ability to blow up 5,000 cities in America the Chinese have the ability to blow up 100. Obviously both are horrible but the idea that the Chinese have the most powerful nuclear arsenal ever is completely fucking ridiculous.

We are talking about a country with a nuclear arsenal comparable to France. They have enough nukes to make any country in the world shy away from giving them shit but the US and USSR built insane nuclear arsenals during the Cold War. If you want to imagine what I'm talking about imagine what China has done building their nukes and literally multiply it times a hundred and both countries literally did that. Tens of thousands of nukes.

We built assembly lines and just popped out nuke after nuke after nuke until we could kill the world over and over again.

The Chinese haven't done that because it was a really dumb thing to do because what was the fucking point. You kill every city in a country and you start popping off nukes in towns a few hundred people because fuck em thats why. What is the point? Is killing 90% of the population not enough?

It doesnt matter if they have a good nuke, we have more than enough firepower to kill them all too. Nobody is going to use nukes, so tc, your argument is the irrelevant one.

The assumption is that we would go to war with China, which is very unlikely. The U.S. and China don't have too many interests that conflict with each other directly.

North Korean relations with the United States don't really necessitate Chinese involvement, unless the United States acts as the clear aggressor; whether that totally precludes China from a hypothetical hot war on the Korean Peninsula entirely is anyone's guess, but North Korea hasn't tried it, and probably never will.

The only other potential sticking point that is worth throwing a glove down over, and it's still a remote issue at that, is Taiwan, and as proved by how the congress back in 1996 was trying their best to find a way to marginalize and mitigate our tenuous relations even further to dump them entirely, I doubt our government, let alone the majority of our people, give a rats ass if China forces the Taiwan issue.

Outside of that, the only other issues, the South China Sea, and the current administrations views on trade aren't really anything to necessitate conflict. Again, most people aren't energized on the issue of some hypothetical islands, and you don't coerce someone to trade more with you by threatening them militarily. You could try, but I doubt that'd work.

So really all you're left with is a Cold War scenario, except you have no East and West Germany to bitch about and "muh freedomz" fear mongering. We're probably at far less risk of being nuked by China than we were by Russia. At least, so long as they confine their bullshit to a regional basis on points we have little interest or necessity to force issues on.

shockthemonkey posted...

Interdependent economies will do more to prevent war between the US and China than MAD ever could

Inter Dependent economies is how China screws over the world and gets it's Hegemony.

No thanks, No Country should depend on another, EVER.

#1 mistake = Dependency on other countries.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Inter Dependent economies is how China screws over the world and gets it's Hegemony.

No thanks, No Country should depend on another, EVER.

#1 mistake = Dependency on other countries.

It's arguably a mutual relationship, but one that is one-sided when you recognize that a lot of basic every day goods would cost way too much to manufacture in America and maintain the standard of living people expect today. There is nothing preventing us from doing without China, it's just pretty convenient to let them do most of the gross manufacturing for the first world. It's a catch-22 in a way, but I wouldn't say China has hegemony over anyone in so far as they just don't want to change how their societies and economies work.

Itachi157 posted...

The conventional military might of the US still far overpowers that of Russia and China though and that also serves as a deterrent

Lol

No it doesn't.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Inter Dependent economies is how China screws over the world and gets it's Hegemony.

No thanks, No Country should depend on another, EVER.

#1 mistake = Dependency on other countries.

Not happening:

The Trump administration wants U.S. supply chain to leave Chinabut U.S. companies want to stay

https://fortune.com/2020/05/09/trump-china-us-supply-chain-coronavirus-business/

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Vyrulisse posted...

I know I played Fallout

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TrowaBarton7 posted...

Not happening:

The Trump administration wants U.S. supply chain to leave Chinabut U.S. companies want to stay

https://fortune.com/2020/05/09/trump-china-us-supply-chain-coronavirus-business/

Change doesn't happen over night.

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what about Trumps super duper missile?

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We've known since the day Russia stole the nuclear bomb from us, it was the whole point of the cold war, anything could trigger the end of the world.

TrowaBarton7 posted...

Not happening:

The Trump administration wants U.S. supply chain to leave Chinabut U.S. companies want to stay

https://fortune.com/2020/05/09/trump-china-us-supply-chain-coronavirus-business/

what is trumps angle? He wants to have the supply chain go to his dear Russia instead?

shockthemonkey posted...

You can be mad about it as much as
you want but interdependent economies is the best way to keep the peace.

That's your take, I completely disagree.

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Now I'm wondering how much money those companies are pulling in from China by selling their propaganda. Must be a sizable amount.

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Solid Snake07 posted...

It's called mutually assured destruction my dude. And it's nothing new

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shockthemonkey posted...

You can be mad about it as much as
you want but interdependent economies is the best way to keep the peace.

For now.

We won't attack china because they produce our stuff. China won't attack us because we buy the shit they produce.

Every year their internal market and the worldwide market become a bigger piece of their exports. If/when our domestic market are no longer deemed important enough to them they will go after us.

DanSmithK7 posted...

If/when our domestic market are no longer deemed important enough to them they will go after us.

And how exactly are they going to attack the US? The US still has an edge in conventional military strength unless you seriously buy into the "quantum stealth" propaganda bullshit that China shits out, and a nuclear strike would result in the eradication of both countries.

The nba couldnt be more proud

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