Board 8 > Recently learned pokemon pet peeve: Is cyndaquil a rat/mouse?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Recently I found out this is a super hotly debated topic in the pokemon community. I've heard that fire types are based off of chinese zodiac since gen II so I've never questioned it, since it's lined up perfectly so far. But there are some people who get very upset with the implication so I figured board 8 is the hot bed of people debating about stupid things and why not bring this new issue to light over here?

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guys I see two people have claimed to not accept this zodiac theory so far

I am going to need you guys to verify your opinions in the topic so we can get this long and pointless argument started

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I thought he was a hedgehog or something

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My logic is
A) It says it's a fire mouse
and
B) I'm not going to spend any time looking into the zodiac thing

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I thought the bigger "controversy" regarding this was whether or not Fennekin is a dog

SantaRPidgey posted...

since gen II

Charizard is considered the dragon for the zodiac thing

249USDollars posted...

I thought the bigger "controversy" regarding this was whether or not Fennekin is a dog

to me, that's the strongest point

but I've seen way more people defend cyndaquil because he evolves into a badger.

I mean here's my hot take: Pokemon aren't 1 to 1 with animals so as long as it's loosely one thing, thats good enough. Just like squirtle is a squirrel/turtle but no one would dare say it's not a turtle

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Google says: Cyndaquil is an Echidna. Which means if you're a Sonic fan and haven't named your Cyndaquil "Knuckles" you fail as a person.

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249USDollars posted...

Charizard is considered the dragon for the zodiac thing

Oh I mean that's when I first heard "fire pokemon are based on the chinese zodiac"

Fennekin also makes sense to me since they had a number of fire dogs already at that point

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Ashethan posted...

if you're a Sonic fan... you fail as a person

I agree

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I'm still waiting on the cute Fire ox starter that turns into a Fire/Fighting minotaur.

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Based on this image, which GF made to celebrate the Year of the Rat, which Cyndaquil is in:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EM5btHXXYAUi0xa?format=jpg&name=medium

Cyndaquil is rodent enough for Game Freak.
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all the names in different languages are puns based off of fire + hedgehog/porcupine

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agesboy posted...

all the names in different languages are puns based off of fire + hedgehog/porcupine

It is certainly a hedgehog. However, hedgehogs in japan are known as "needlemice".
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Hbthebattle posted...

Based on this image, which GF made to celebrate the Year of the Rat, which Cyndaquil is in:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EM5btHXXYAUi0xa?format=jpg&name=medium

Cyndaquil is rodent enough for Game Freak.

I'm confused by what exactly happened with Togedemaru and Pikachu there.

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mnkboy907 posted...

I'm confused by what exactly happened with Togedemaru and Pikachu there.

Traditional way of making mochi, pounding it with a hammer. I think Togedemaru is eating the mochi

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It's certainly in the rodent family. I don't believe it has anything to do with the zodiac though.


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Yeah, it's rodent enough for me. And if the Pokedex says it's Fire Mouse, good enough for me.

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What does it mean based of the zodiac? Like the particular year of release corresponds to a particular zodiac sign or that theyre being done in the same order?
G1-Starter is a Salamander
G2-Starter is a fire mouse (echidna)
G3-Starter is a chicken
G4-Starter is a monkey
G5-Starter is a pig
G6-Starter is a fennik fox?
G7-Starter is a kitten
G8-Starter is a rabbit.

if you say 6 is dog and 7 is tiger then I suppose you can say theyre zodiac animals. Just missing horse, snake, ox, goat and the order is kinda messed up


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5tarscream posted...

What does it mean based of the zodiac? Like the particular year of release corresponds to a particular zodiac sign or that theyre being done in the same order?
G1-Starter is a Salamander
G2-Starter is a fire mouse (echidna)
G3-Starter is a chicken
G4-Starter is a monkey
G5-Starter is a pig
G6-Starter is a fennik fox?
G7-Starter is a kitten
G8-Starter is a rabbit.

if you say 6 is dog and 7 is tiger then I suppose you can say theyre zodiac animals. Just missing horse, snake, ox, goat and the order is kinda messed up

there's been a theory that each fire starter corresponds loosely to one of the chinese zodiac animals
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The fire starter = chinese zodiac thing seems like a very large reach given that Cyndaquil and Fennekin really don't fit nicely into it

Interesting to note by the way that hedgehogs are not rodents and porcupines are, but I dunno if strict taxonomy really applies here

btw I'm pretty sure Charmander derives its name from the folkloric salamander, not the animal salamander (which isn't even a reptile, it doesn't make sense for charmander to be one)

Further research indicates that Cyndaquil's name in japanese references the porcupine, so I guess it is a rodent

Gabumon is a lizard not a wolf

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Paratroopa1 posted...

The fire starter = chinese zodiac thing seems like a very large reach given that Cyndaquil and Fennekin really don't fit nicely into it

Interesting to note by the way that hedgehogs are not rodents and porcupines are, but I dunno if strict taxonomy really applies here

btw I'm pretty sure Charmander derives its name from the folkloric salamander, not the animal salamander (which isn't even a reptile, it doesn't make sense for charmander to be one)

Again, its loose. Foxes and Dogs are both Canidae, but there were already two lines of Fire-type dogs compared to just one Fire-type fox. If GameFreak is loose enough to consider an echinda/hedgehog-esque Cyndaquil a rat/rodent, which based on the above artwork and also Pokemon Go events, they do, I think foxes and dogs are close enough.
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Remember those people who said that Lugia isn't a bird?

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You ever tried to pet a fox out in the woods? You shouldn't. They aren't dogs.

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Saying a fox is a dog seems like a really huge stretch to me when they could have just used... a dog, if this was something they were doing on purpose

I think it's just coincidence

I mean, the Chinese Zodiac happens to overlap with a lot of prevalent types of animals, and then dragons which, are you really surprised there's a fire type that seems like one?

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paperwarior posted...

You ever tried to pet a fox out in the woods? You shouldn't. They aren't dogs.

You ever tried to pet a wolf out in the woods? You shouldn't. They aren't dogs.

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Well they aren't. But they're more closely related to them than foxes are.

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paperwarior posted...

I mean, the Chinese Zodiac happens to overlap with a lot of prevalent types of animals, and then dragons which, are you really surprised there's a fire type that seems like one?

Also notably, the Chinese Zodiac overlaps with a lot of prevalent land mammals, and that's where fire types seem to draw most inspiration from, since they aren't usually aquatic creatures.

I would say that Infernape and Emboar lead at least some credence to this theory since both of them do kind of have a chinese vibe going on, but it doesn't really feel like they continued that throughline to Fennekin/Delphox, and if they were doing this on purpose they definitely didn't start doing it on purpose until Infernape

Also there's a grass snake starter and a fire horse that's existed since gen 1.

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paperwarior posted...

Also there's a grass snake starter and a fire horse that's existed since gen 1.

well, not to mention there's also already multiple fire dogs (and foxes)

Cyndaquil is literally the Fire Mouse Pokmon. That has always been its Pokdex classification.

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Cyndaquil is an echidna like Knuckles is

I think the thing that most leads it credence is that when it comes to starters, they've showed they have no issue reusing animals. There have been two turtles already, several reptile/dinosaur types in general, and so on, but with fire they specifically chose stuff like a pig, a chicken, and a rabbit and haven't doubled up on a single animal type like they have for water and grass, and pigs/chickens/rabbits aren't typically associated with fire like most of the water and grass stuff is.

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Also, for what it's worth, when it comes to Fennekin, it learns Howl, which is typically only something given via level-up to dog-like Pokemon (and Whismur but he has like every sound related move).

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-hotdogturtle-- posted...

Remember those people who said that Lugia isn't a bird?

implying owls are birds

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SazhAndFrocobo posted...

implying owls are birds

They are though ?

I've literally never heard about the Zodiac theory before this topic.

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I thought it was a ferret.

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Ted Cruz is a fire starter.

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pepper2012 posted...

They are though ?

its an old meme
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Paratroopa1 posted...

Also notably, the Chinese Zodiac overlaps with a lot of prevalent land mammals, and that's where fire types seem to draw most inspiration from, since they aren't usually aquatic creatures.

I would say that Infernape and Emboar lead at least some credence to this theory since both of them do kind of have a chinese vibe going on, but it doesn't really feel like they continued that throughline to Fennekin/Delphox, and if they were doing this on purpose they definitely didn't start doing it on purpose until Infernape

but there's plenty of animals, like bears, that wouldn't fit at all and instantly shatter the theory, but we haven't gotten any.
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If we want to get as specific as possible, Cyndaquil is mostly based on a tenrec


That head shape is way closer to cyndaquils than any other echidna, hedgehog, or porcupine is

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