Board 8 > AI: The Somnium Files - A KCF Playthrough Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Weird. This was also my first route.

My first route was the one with Boss on the computer he just saw. Certainly drew me in to keep playing!

When I had my fiance play I told her to do the other route (KCFs first route) first but she enjoyed it a lot more than he did. Wonder what was so different

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I did the entire left side before going down the right. The Iris route is really surreal and crazy after all the death and despair of the left side. I was totally dumbstruck when you go to Sunfish Pocket and it's full of people and happy music is playing.

This is probably 95% personal bias, but I feel like that's the best way to experience the story

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scaryice posted...

I'm amazed you could play all these Japanese games and not know that.

You must have me confused for someone else because I seldom play modern Japanese games.
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handsomeboy2012 posted...

Very interested to hear your guesses, like who committed the murders in the route, and on the first Cyclops Killers cases

Uh, the game has an unreliable storytelling presentation. What I mean by that is there are reasons to believe things aren't real (both in the macro sense with the flowchart possibly being various dreams/the whole game is a somnium and also the entire concept of the somnium is the muddling of reality and fantasy). There being multiple psync machines, Renju having knowledge of the concept, and also the game being so close to the vest with pertinent info makes this an exercise in futility. Let's also not forget that they aren't being clear who is experiencing what (the flashbacks are what I have in mind). I don't think transferring my Zerometer to this game (Cylocmeter?) will work.

There are six pages still blank on the character album. It's unclear what kind of characters those six will be. They could all be people from the past for all I know. Gun-to-head, my top three for the Cyclops Killings from six years ago are:

1. Sejima
2. Date
3. Boss

I am entirely convinced that Falco's tenure working for the Kumakuras was as a standard lone-wolf hitman. There is a large chasm between how the Cyclops Killer is portrayed and how Falco carries himself and recounts his past.

Sejima has an unknown relationship to the Kumakuras that seems to include a long-term friendship. Sejima seems like the kind of character incapable of loving the way others can. There aren't many known characters who six years ago could pull off what the Cyclops Killers did, be friends with Rohan, and also get Falco to be the fall guy willingly. Sejima seems to be as good of a bet as any.

Is there a coincidence that as Falco left law enforcement, Date entered it and in a clandestine outfit such as ABIS? He has no recollection of his past, there are have been a half dozen or so remarks by Aiba about getting a constant dose of something, his past self was shown killing one of the victims to death on Iris' somnium TVs, and maybe the most important is that he is the main character. There has to be a reason why HE is the main character here. It's certainly not for his skills in law enforcement, and it seems my kind-of-joking, kind-of-not theory of him being Falco/Hitomi's boyfriend/Iris' father figure is a total bust now. Him being the original Cyclops Killer would clear the air about a few things.

While I have absolutely no idea why Boss would film herself, face and body included, killing Sejima, I don't think there's any room to doubt she pulled the trigger. With that established, and the image of Boss entering the Sagan's in Falco's somnium, she could have a strong link to Rohan (siblings? lovers?). Unlike someone petite such as Shoko, Boss has the size to overpower and maintain control over her victims (I am really just talking about the holding down and choking/beating with a rock murders) as shown by Iris' somnium that presumably showed the Cyclops Killings on the TVs.
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Interesting thoughts, looking forward to the rest of the routes
And yeah, maybe its a bit early to ask for your ideas. At this point the game hasnt given a lot of info yet and I was still very confused during my playthrough

handsomeboy2012 posted...

My first route was left then down (the route youre about to do now)

That was my first route too.
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As for the present-day murders, I am not convinced one person is doing it. Obviously if it is one, then it is Boss, but I feel like this is the result of multiple people. I think that a true copycat killer follows the same ideology as the original. Clearly their methods are far more elaborate and suggest a much stronger motive than just Rohan wants to collect women's eyeballs and the killer wants to feel pleasure by killing. To find a killer, you need to look at the victims.

Shoko:
- Business associates with the Kumakuras with a career in defrauding people
- Recently visited Falco in prison

Renju
- Used to work for the Kumakuras
- Runs a talent agency now
- Knows about, including the location, of a psync machine
- Knew about Shoko's death before others did
- His family's warehouse has been used to murder multiple people, but he allegedly has not been involved in the family business for almost two decades.

Iris
- Unknown father
- Used to work for Renju at Sunfish Pocket
- Became employed as an idol at Lemniscate at Renju's request

Ota
- Is an obsessed stalker/fan of Iris to the point of obstructing justice in multiple murder investigations
- Father is out of the picture
- Mother has mental health issues but runs a dying diner

Sejima
- Comes from a wealthy background
- He's a senator or some other political position
- Has a business relationship with the Kumakuras
- Sold land just before the chemical disaster and bought it all right back for a fraction of the cost

If one person did this, Boss obviously.

If two people did this, Boss and Hitomi? We are taking Hitomi's word for it concerning her physical condition. I am no medical professional, but I thought the purpose of metal plates being inserted were to provide stability so that the surrounding areas could heal properly. Obviously that doesn't have a 100% success rate, but I am sure there is more to her story than being the pity character as the single mom with the bum arm. The big drawback to this is that Hitomi is Iris' mom. What if she isn't, biologically speaking? Hitomi has been coy about her past other than knowing Renju from high school. Maybe she is Iris' biological mother,. Maybe she set up with Iris much like Date was with Mizuki (Sejima Iris' father in this or the previous scenario?), only this time legally. Maybe something sinister is going on. I don't know. I'm just trying to justify Hitomi killing Iris. It seems though that Hitomi had a potential motive to kill the others at the very least. If Hitomi knew that Falco took the fall to protect her and Iris as well as held some inner rage/resentment towards people for past events, I can see Shoko, Renju, and Sejima being targeted.

I am somewhat open to the idea that each person murdered the last. It would solve the issue of Hitomi/Iris. I apologize that all of this will not sound cohesive:
- Shoko was obviously investigating something and probably got too close for comfort. If whatever she was investigating was something big (it always is) and Renju was seemingly aware (there does exist the possibility that someone took his phone but was otherwise going about his life), then maybe he felt like he had to silence her.
- Iris is clearly hiding something and her persona from her own path could be more of an act/front than her true character. She had no reaction when Ota hit Date with a stun gun. In some way, it seems like she could be taking advantage of Ota and playing with his feelings toward her to achieving whatever goal she has in mind.
- I think Renju was planning to use her for something (in Iris' path, he was trying to forcefully psync with her) and maybe she turned the tables. She is known to fit in the weight criteria for bringing up his corpse to Sunfish at least. It could also be Ota who I think must weigh less than 100 lbs, but given how much he carries on him at all times, he could push himself up to 105 lbs.
- In the hours between when Ota stunned Date and when he and Iris died is key. The warehouse had his van outside of it, so he wasn't kidnapped. I have no idea where they would have gone after leaving Mama's though. The whole setup seemed staged though. The theatrics on display were so unlike Shoko and Renju's murders, which is one of the big reasons why I think multiple people are responsible for these murders. It could be that Ota and the person in the polar bear costume were one and the same. It could be that Ota was one half of the operation. It seemed rehearsed nonetheless. It could just be weak writing and voice direction.
- The only motives for Ota killing Iris, from what I know right now, is if he upgraded from obsessive stalker to if-I-can't-have-her-nobody-can or if he realized she was using him. Mama brought up the Kumakura link, and if somehow Ota knew she was of their descent (or Sejima's) and somehow was filled with rage or whatever, then that could be something. As I mentioned before though, I didn't give what Mama said a second thought. It was very weak.
- If Sejima was in the polar bear costume or otherwise was aware of what was going down at the warehouse, then perhaps he wanted to silence Iris and tied up loose ends with Ota or whatever. I don't know.
- Boss killed Sejima for whatever. I don't know.

Of course everything is going to be the result of some nutty anime supernatural time distortion, so I don't plan to waste my time with this stuff often.
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nice theories

(this is not sarcastic I just can't really say anything else)
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Interesting thoughts!

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I am enjoying reading this topic.

My first route was the one you just finished as well.
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I should get an update up before I go to bed. I should be able to focus on the game more now moving forward.
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Hmm, the theme of this other version of Iris' somnium is animal abuse. Lovely. At the end, the blue figure is killing the head of Sejima on the body of a female. Okay...

Day 3: Sunday rihAI

Ota absolutely telegraphed he was going to attack Date again, and he totally fell for it. Date may not have known about the other attempt, but Ota clearly bungled the setup to where Date should have noticed the red flags!

Day 4: Monday youdAI

I think Iris did or was about to do something to Mayumi? Mayumi was really going to let Iris have it, but she abruptly stopped, audibly even, and Iris approached her and moved her arm. More importantly, why didn't Mayumi notice Date!?

I'm not entirely sure why Iris and Ota aren't dead when Date arrived this time. I get that the diner might be closer to the warehouse than Marble, but it isn't as if Date actually did anything. Maybe Mayumi is the key here?

Date was in pursuit of the person in the bear costume, but the next screen showed it being 9:34 in the morning at ABIS HQ, so I am going out on a limb and saying that manhunt went nowhere...aaaaand we quickly have our confirmation.
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Well, now I can proceed where to go from here, I might as well go back to Date's to see Mizuki lay into him.

"Ota is amazing. I'm changing my mind about that guy." - Mizuki
- Well I'm not!

LMAO at Mizuki's punch in the flashback. Why does she even need iron pipes then?

At the diner, things were finally made clear about the situation. The dad has passed away...SI...no it is just five years ago. The diner has been closed for SI...no eight years. Mayumi has had dementia...SI...YES SIX YEARS AGO! It makes sense that the diner has been closed for many years (how do they even support themselves?), but all dementia cases are different, so it wasn't a foregone conclusion.

Visiting Hitomi at the hospital, the mirror above the sink is almost fully giving off this really weird green color that doesn't match anything in the room. I'm guessing that was probably some error on the developer's end, but maybe it actually means something...oh well. Hitomi also mentioned losing a friend at a "young age". That probably means said friend isn't one of the victims from the first Cyclops Killings.

"It seems that she passed out and was brought here" - Aiba on Hitomi
"Yeah, the nurse told me." - Date
- Shouldn't Aiba have known the nurse told him?
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Can we really say that Ota saved Iris (I'm not convinced of his innocence I want to add) when he probably made multiple dumb actions (knocking out Date and having Iris run away with him among them) that led to this? Hmm, I can say goodbye to Hitomi or ask her for her alibi. Do I risk it? Yes I wil...oh it didn't matter. Her alibi didn't actually clear her since she had opportunity.

At the warehouse, we are discussing the two vehicles that were there when Date arrived and are still there. The station wagon presumably driven by the polar bear was stolen at 10:33. Uh, I guess Ota was caught on camera stealing it. Isn't that his van though? Well, it definitely is as Ota's prints are on the wheel, and Iris' are there too. What is going on here?

Investigating inside yielded some chocolate. I see Ota's blood is evidence B, but why can't I investigate evidence A? I see it back there, and isn't this my job?

I had to laugh when we went to Sejima's because the bodyguard was packing a mere pistol, and that somehow constitutes as being "heavily armed" in this game.

Mayumi's prints were on the chocolate? Interesting, but I have to assume a red herring/planted.
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I don't think it can be good that Boss is meeting with Date at the hospital to talk with Ota. I believe the very beginning of the game is the only time I have seen her outside of HQ, and given what I have seen from her recently...

Yeah, that's right Date, question Boss calling Ota a hero! This conversation seems to be headed toward Mayumi being the prime suspect. It seems impossible for her to have been able to catch up with him, and I will not entertain the thought for one second of her being in the polar bear suit. That is ripping the dumbest thing out of the movie The Village. It seems even Ota is suspecting his mom.

Ota saw Iris driving Renju's car at 8:30. I want to say that was the night Renju died and it was after his estimated time of death? I honestly don't know, and I really wish that they had a convenient tab for the timeline of important events sorted by each path. Like the flowchart has these really thin and useless info sheets, but they cover very little and rarely tell dates/times! I realize that they don't expect people to approach the game like me, but it makes me trying to figure some things out pretty much an impossible task if I can't even get an accurate timeline going.

Oh cool, Ota's holding a knife. Fuck this, I know what he does with things that are or can be used with weapons! Boss, uh, had some knockout gas handy on her? That, that can't be good right? Aside from the obvious, we know Renju at the very least was sedated before he died. Can't linger on this right now, because it is psyncing time!
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Japan has extremely strong gun control

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From the first somnium, the left route either had Iris sawed in half or lose an eye early on. So hanging around with Iris who is completely fine in the other route (well, until her ending) felt very fresh and made the conspiracy stuff more bearable. This is why I felt going the left route first improved my experience with the game.

The somnium conveniently takes us back to the warehouse. I thought the melody sounded like a classic western, but given the lines Ota had and the way he gave them, I am guessing they were actually going for like a Power Rangers/Saturday morning super hero vibe. Maybe I am not crazy, and they are similar.

Man, all these actions at the beginning that I'm seeing are taking up so much time. I feel like more than two false moves here can do me in. Well strike one right off the bat apparently, but my guess of having Aiba jump on the ice did the trick. The next lock has the branching path, and they are explicitly mentioning the green and red shelving units. I don't really have a preference here (why would I?), so I ended up just going with red. I'm mad at myself for not getting this one done in one shot. I was at the very end, but apparently Ota has to press the crane control button and not Aiba.

Quickly rectifying the situation, Ota gives the polar bear person a gruesome leg injury. Wait a second, shouldn't their blood be mixed in where Ota's blood is too? I don't recall being given that info by CSI.
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Day 4: Monday syougAI

Ota is tight-lipped again, so yeah, he definitely suspects his mom. I know it doesn't look good for her given her condition, rage issues with Iris, and Ota being stabbed by a knife with a floral pattern, which I believe matches the description of what Mayumi herself said she received as a gift in the past. I obviously do not believe she did it, and I would rather not having to keep visualizing the stupid twist that nobody talks about in The Village.

Day 5: Tuesday seisAI

I think it is odd they had Date pass out from prolonged somnium exposure there. I wonder if him being out of commission triggered something plot-wise or might experience something similar sickness-wise to Iris and (allegedly) Renju.

At Marble, I can't see Mama's legs, and Mizuki is still wary of Mama despite being "totally cool" with the LGBT community. If Mama is an info broker, she can easily use that to commit murder and stall/obstruct an investigation. I need to keep an eye on her, or I guess keep her in my thoughts is the more accurate phrase.

Seeing this flashback of Renju and Shoko, man they suck at parenting. They are rich, they should have just swallowed their pride and let Hitomi, even though she might be a murderer herself, take care of Mizuki. They are also seem to be comparing Shoko to the Original Cyclops Killer.

Uh, after repeated attempts to get a dumb end by constantly clicking on the same option in a conversation finally paid off. I asked the Lemniscate receptionist to go to what turned out to be a city, and Date just left Mizuki high and dry and went to the beach or something.

Aha! There were two sets of blood at the warehouse! After leaving the warehouse, I had to go back to HQ before leaving again to go back to the warehouse for the identity of the second set of blood. I am convinced with how things are developing that I am on Mizuki's end path, and I am feeling uneasy that I left her at HQ with Boss when I don't actually believe that she needs to be questioned by some part of the police department. I am totally going to find out that it was Boss' blood found at the scene aren't I?

I guess that question will be answered when I next play.
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There is no match in the database for the 2nd set of DNA. That rules out people with criminal histories, but, and I don't know Japanese laws, there might be instances where someone seeking federal employment might be subject to DNA testing? Even with working with a vulnerable group such as children, I doubt a school teacher qualifies (not that I know if Hitomi works for a public or private school). Even if Sejima wouldn't be able to buy his way out of it, I highly doubt a senator qualifies either. I guess this revelation has eliminated nobody.

Sejima is off in the distance and is favoring his left leg. It sure is looking he's our guy. That would be cool to get something right in this game. I wasn't exactly joking when he was my main guess for the person in the polar bear, but I wasn't exactly exuding with confidence either. That was also in the path where I turned the TV knob in the somnium, so there are no guarantees that the person in the polar bear suit is the same person in both branches.

The cigarette butts from the Kumakuras matches the blood at the scene, so it is Sejima. Got 'em...is what I would like to say, but Date was removed from the case. That makes me wonder since this order came straight from the top. If Sejima had something on police HQ, and given how idiotic a lot of people are in this game, could HQ really have serial killings be pinned on Falco instead of Sejima. It is ridiculous to consider, but I feel like I must. It is possible that the Original and New Cyclops Killer is one and the same.

Oh, wow, shocker up in here. Mizuki is in trouble. Nobody could have seen that coming. Lol, that was anticlimactic, I found her on my first attempt inside the left speaker (there were only like three realistic options anyway). The point is though that I am relatively better detective and Date should totally relinquish some situational control to me.
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They, as in Date, are really quick to say that Sejima killed Shoko and Renju when there is literally no evidence of that. I know I just said that Sejima could be the original and new killer, but I meant to say he could be the old killer and also attempted to kill Iris. There are few clues, and even fewer that can be attached to any person or kind of person, about Shoko and Renju's murders.

I was subject to another bafflingly incompetent shootout at Sejima's residence. Date could have shot Sejima in the head, but there was apparently a high risk of hitting Mizuki. Let's ignore the fact that Aiba can advise/manipulate Date into doing things with 100% accuracy, but I guess we had to do the ol' pipe and bullet trick to reach a contrived dramatic event. I don't even analyze the situation, the whole mood just seemed like they wanted me to protect Mizuki instead of shooting Sejima, so I obliged. I still shot Sejima, so I guess it all worked out, but uh, they dropped a little bomb out of left field in the process. Sejima is Date's dad? Okay? I don't know what I am supposed to feel about that.

Day 6: Wednesday hiAI

It appears that bosses' real name is Shizue Kuranushi, or something like that. Name doesn't ring a bell, nor do I know if it even matters. Odds of her being a part of the Kumakura family have lowered at any rate.

This might be a record number of psyncs on a route, though this is only my third, as I am taking control of Mizuki to help Date get out of a coma, a conclusion that science apparently agrees with in this alternate reality.
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In one of these flashbacks, there was Mizuki when she first came to live at Date's. She looks the exact same as she does now. Wasn't that like 4-5 years ago though?

Well I feel dumb. I assumed that at the very end, you were supposed to go to Date. I saw that going to Date would give me a negative timie. That led me to believe there was more to it than that. Going to either of the parents would have resulted in getting a 1/9 timie, so I figured that would come in handy. It turns out, it is auto-game over if you go to Shoko or Renju. Luckily that didn't set me back much. At the conclusion, I ended up with just 4.85 seconds left, so I feel like my initial gut feeling of getting the 1/9 timie was validated.

Day 6: Wednesday sanpAI

Wait, wait, just wait a minute. I thought Hitomi barely knew Shoko, and it was Renju who she was friends with. Mizuki is claiming that Hitomi is Shoko's best friend. Something is fishy is going on here.

Mizuki Path End
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So obviously, there are still like 67 unanswered questions/mysteries in the game, but I'm just focusing on the ones that are personally sticking out to me at this moment.

1. Boss killed Sejima in the other branch. She had to have known somehow that Sejima was responsible for Iris and Ota's death (I am operating under the assumption, not fact, that the person in the polar bear suit is always the same), so for her to defy HQ and throw away her career, she must have done this for very personal reasons. That and she deliberately wanted Date/Pewter/Aiba to find that footage.

2. The incident with Iris and Ota in the warehouse brings up some conundrums. Shoko was killed at an unknown location and placed at Bloom Park. Renju was killed at an unknown location and placed by someone around 105 lbs at Sunfish Pocket. Iris was kidnapped publicly and driven to a warehouse that seemingly has no connection to her where her murder was going to be live-streamed. If Sejima is responsible for those two murders and intended to murder Iris, that would mean that the streaming bit has to be in connection to Iris' career as an idol and her late-night live-streams. How does the warehouse then represent Iris since clearly transporting her elsewhere to be displayed would pointless at that point? If Sejima isn't responsible for all three deaths and just Iris, or actually even if he is, why has NOBODY brought up the 105 lb person at Sunfish elevator again? Is this where Hitomi comes into play?

3. Everyone is soooo convinced that the eyes were forcibly removed. In all but one instance, the victim was dead by the time they were found or were unconscious and soon to be in a coma. At the end of Iris' path, her left eye was totally fine entering the secret psync machine, and when we left, it was gone. She was also sick at the time. Did she lose an eyeball because of using that other device? Did Shoko and Renju also lose their eyes because they were in the device? Sejima clearly didn't have the time when he kidnapped Iris in Mizuki's path, so I feel this helps my theory that Sejima could have been the original cyclops killer and his attack on Iris was a continuation of that, but Shoko and Renju were killed by someone else. It also helps that Iris fits the original Cyclops Killer's MO while Shoko at 37 or whatever was probably no longer considered to be a young woman, and Renju was neither young nor a woman.

When I resume again, I think I want to revisit the right path again, which I believe means my only option is to go to the first ShovelForge somnium and make sure that I do what I wanted to do the first time, and make it so I Date doesn't believe Iris' totally bogus (if there is a god) conspiracy theory.
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KCF0107 posted...

I found her on my first attempt inside the left speaker (there were only like three realistic options anyway).

Should have REALLY dragged it out. You know, to stay in Date's character.

Your questions will be answered... And more!

I really like your thoughts on this game. Keep it up

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_stingers_ posted...

I really like your thoughts on this game. Keep it up

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So I think that at this point in the path:
- Renju is alive and whose whereabouts are unknown
- Nobody else is known to have died since Shoko
- Pewter though has been asked to betray Iris/Date under orders from his lover in Renju

Now I am going to treat this as my true original path since I didn't believe Iris' Naix-whatever claim but somehow made Date still believe her.

Day 5: Tuesday kenzAI

Fuck you too Iris. lol she's such a child if she thinks someone who is theoretically a total stranger until a couple days ago is just going to believe her without question. Hitomi says Iris has bouts of delusion, among other things, because of a malignant brain tumor, and that Iris may or may not know? Are you really her mother? Who the hell doesn't tell their adult child they are dying? The fact that Iris ran off with the person she trusts most, and that person isn't Hitomi speaks volumes.

Now I assume that person is Renju because well, who else would it be? I figured they would go to that secret psync machine, but that isn't an option, and I don't think Date is aware of that in this path at this point in time. It wasn't an option anyway, but the warehouse is a good enough second option.

There are no cars out in front here, so maybe that is a good/bad sign? Renju wanted her for use in that psync machine, if my deduction skills are up to par, so if he was the one she ran off with, he wouldn't take her here unless there's a third psync machine hiding under our noses somehow.
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Well, Aiba says there's a dead body, so uh, I give it a 90% chance of it being Aiba, 9% Renju, and the field the other 1%. Okay yeah, it is Aiba. It is just like the Bloom Park somnium I think. When the forklift/carousel was raised, a dead Aiba on ice was found. I'm not sure what this means but okay!

Hmm, another locked path. I guess my true original path continues to elude me. Looking at the flowchart, I am unsure how locked paths will work in this game. Will they be like the Zero Escape series and continue from that point once I find out whatever they want or does the unusual image suggest I will be re-writing history and prevent her death/leaving with Renju and same with the Boss/Sejima thing on the other side? I am not on the game to re-check, but I want to say this particular path had an ominous image of Hitomi while the other had an image of what may have been inside the Sagan residence.

My only other option at this point is to go back to Ota's somnium and choose the green shelf over the red one. As an aside before talking about that, I still feel like the events of the game are taking place within a somnium. I have already mentioned a few times about Aiba semi-frequently talking about Date's dosage that seems more like a recurring theme than an unfunny recurring gag without a punchline. I'm convinced that the one or two mentions of parallel timelines was just a reference to Zero Escape. If there are locks that prevent me from going through a route until I find something out, there are basically two reasons for this. The first game is super lame and forces me to go through everything for basically no reason. The second one, and Uchikoshi has a history of this, is that it is imperative that I do experience just about everything or the plot falls apart. In the previous games of his that I have played, that reason was parallel timelines. I really think this all taking place within a somnium can explain some of the bizarre things and why there would be locks on the flowchart.
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Day 4: Monday jikAI

What sucks about this is that unless they change people in the polar bear costumes, I already know it is Sejima, so I have to do this song and dance with freaking Mayumi claiming to be the attempted murderer. I never liked her anyway.

Day 5: Tuesday zugAI

Great, I have to psync in the mind of a dementia patient who happens to be Mayumi. I have literally no idea what to expect. Well I guess that plan's on hold because Date and Ota were incompatible or something and that damaged the psync machine or something. I don't care.

Here's a thought, what if Renju is Iris' father? I know in Japanese games/media, they really like to hit you over the head with making a child look exactly like at least one of the parents, but I think Uchikoshi doesn't have much of a history doing that from my experience. Anyway, I bring this up because Iris doesn't resemble Hitomi (which I am becoming more convinced Hitomi is not her biological mother) or Renju. If Hitomi isn't her biological mother, and the way Renju approaches parenthood, I wouldn't be surprised if he arranged something with Hitomi and Iris like he did with Date and Mizuki, only presumably legal-bound. Also, maybe I am confusing this with another game (I have also been playing Spider-Man and Shadow of the Tomb Raider), but didn't someone have a genetic issue? It would potentially explain why Renju NEEDED Iris. Also, I am suspecting Falco and Renju could be brothers. This feels like the kind of game to go for an ironic twist like Iris calling Falco uncle, and he in fact is her uncle.

I realize that I stopped after this. I think I was in the car going somewhere.
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KCF0107 posted...

I realize that I stopped after this. I think I was in the car going somewhere

That's pretty specific bro

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I mean, my notes just stop after my theory block. I think the scene prior to it was at ABIS HQ with Date leaving while Pewter was getting the machine up and running. I can't recall where I was going (these notes are over 12 hours old), but maybe it was to the diner?
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Oh my god, someone is asking for my thoughts!? Obviously Aiba is talking to Date, but maybe, just maybe, I can finally give meaningful input into this investigati...and Date quickly ends any thought to that happening. As much as I have pointed out how the writing and voice direction was very dumb during the live stream inside the warehouse, and Aiba/Date brought up the possibility of him acting for the camera, I think that theory is dead in the water.

And I was right about the diner being our ultimate destination. Apparently the family was in a lot of debt, and I highly doubt that the dad's death somehow forgave that debt. If neither Ota nor Mayumi are working, what is happening with that debt and who is taking care of the bills. Unless this is another one of those "don't think about it, please just suspend your disbelief", there has to be a financial benefactor that could use Ota to get things done for them. Sejima and Renju are the only wealthy people in this game that I know of unless Moma going clean somehow made him serious bank.

Mayumi took a taxi to the warehouse, but the van spent 10 minutes at Sejima's and 45 minutes at the chemical plant. I suppose the 10 minutes at the house could have been spent getting into the polar bear suit, but the 45 minutes at the closed-off district (they didn't say the chemical plant, but there's only two places that I know of within it) had to have been spent using the psync machine. That's probably also where Iris ended up losing her left eye.
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Sejima seems like he's the kind of fellow that is very high on security, so how did Date easily enter the property and the house itself even if Sejima and his entire 86-member security team have left the premises? Date smells something bad, and I see a vase. Uh oh, I guess it is Sejima's body. Better us than the help finding it. Yep, it's totally his cut-up body. Why the fuck would you shoot the vase Date? Jesus, who trained you? You could have destroyed or comprised evidence dummy! I tell you, SOMEONE has to think about the investigation here.

The big question here is who paid off an entire, massive security team to leave Sejima defenseless? Who is even left that is capable of doing that? I feel like this is going to be another "quit finding plot holes and suspend your disbelief already!" If not, maybe I am underestimating Moma's operation and Boss is still an enigma.

Aiba mentioned Sejima having a son that is 30, but he lives abroad. Is Aiba intentionally feeding Date false information, or is this Pewter's programming at work? Speaking of Pewter, he sounded like he personally knew Sejima and was truly shocked at his death. It could be that he knows who was meeting up with Sejima last and didn't expect them to commit murder. Also, Boss has still been curiously absent. Also important is that Sejima's time of death is well after the events in the warehouse, so there isn't any conflict there.

Now was the time to psync with Mayumi. Some of these somnium solutions are so dumb. At the end, I had to do something with the clock. I had absolutely no idea at what time Mayumi's mind was currently at, given the dearth of literally everything around us. However, they asked for a memory, so the logical choice is to go back in time because there's always memories in the past, but no, that put me back to a previous part of the somnium, and I ran out of time. So to unlock a memory, you have to go the future. Of course!
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Day 5: Tuesday syokuzAI

Wait, I thought Ota made it a point that he didn't want to go back to the hospital, but lo and behold we begin the scene in his hospital room with him on the bed. Mayumi obviously isn't a reliable witness, but it seems confirmed that Iris' left eye was plucked out, and in the warehouse. Hear me out on this. So if Date is Sejima's son, and if Sejima is a serial killer, what if this mental condition is genetic or Date was trained by Sejima. Sejima at least did something to Iris that was reminiscent of what the Original Cyclops Killer did, and Date did appear in Iris' somnium as the OCK after all, so the theory is suggested to some degree. Anyway, perhaps my observation of Date doing something to Iris at the end of her path, and then we find out her left eye is gone after her final somnium was Date removing her left eye after all.

Back to the present, this is clearly Ota's path, but something has to happen to unlock at least one of the other two locked branches. Okay, so Ota is planning on taking charge of the family now, but does he even have power of attorney, or the Japanese equivalent, over his mom yet? I feel like that entire situation with his family and the diner makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

So my inquiry into what Iris did to Mayumi as she approached her was revealed. She took the floral knife. In retrospect, that makes perfect sense because how would Sejima have acquired it otherwise? Is the twist going to be that everyone in this game is actually a psychopath? Shoko's eyeball was in Renju's stomach. Now that's something. This is definitely very personal. The OCK's murders, or what little I know about them, were far more tame than this.

Ota's Route End

This apparently unlocked my true original path, but I'm not seeing how. Date found Iris dead in the warehouse, and then I was locked out, so I'm not seeing how Iris taking a knife or Shoko's eyeball in Renju's stomach, two events that did not take place in this path, were key to opening this up.
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Just dance. It'll be okay

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Ota's route was my first route and I basically felt like you did after your first route:

KCF0107 posted...

I'm not going to bother listing all the main and sub mysteries thus far in the game as they have virtually all gone unsolved

We spent all our time faffing about with Mayumi, solved nothing, and then the route abruptly ends with nothing solved.

(So I guess don't feel bad about your route order because mine sucked too)
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Might be a leading question, but I would really like to hear your theories on what is going on with Iris' body.

I don't know what you mean. Are you referring to the time her body was at the warehouse, then it wasn't and she was found safe?
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Yeah, and then finding the body at the warehouse again

I guess having said multiple times that I believe the overarching thing is that this all takes place in a somnium (can explain some of the nuttier things as well as the basis of the flowchart existing), presumably to solve some Cyclops Killer mystery (original or new or both), you asking that question means that I am totally wrong about that.

I have absolutely no idea otherwise, and it honestly isn't something that I care about.
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In case it is revealed in this next path, which I hope to start soon, I guess my fallback option still revolves around Date and this dosage he receives. I suppose he might have some neurological disorder (he could be a Cyclops Killer after all, or maybe repeated use of the psych machine has significant drawbacks) or maybe the prescription itself has side effects such as seeing some things that don't exist, yet.

Whatever it is, it has to tie into the basis of the flowchart unless it is simply parallel timelines again.
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Day 5: Tuesday jutAI

Iris was missing her right eye. Does that mean this corpse is super old and was a victim of the OCK? That means this is probably not Iris...or there are Iris clones out there. Please kill me if that's the case. The corpse is over 10 years old and gave birth. Oh shit, this is Iris' mom isn't it? Uchikoshi couldn't resist having parent and child look alike could he? The silver lining is that my feeling that Hitomi wasn't Iris' biological mother turned out to be true. I'm not expecting many "victories" like that, so I will take it! This also means that Renju had to be aware of Iris' parentage if he "needed" her, not to mention he and Hitomi were close around when Iris was born. I am guessing the dead woman is that one person that Hitomi mentioned once a long ass time ago.

For this corpse to have been in the Bloom Park somnium, that means Mizuki saw this corpse before. I guess it is time to track her down. While Renju was no longer involved in his family's business, he did ask to manage the warehouse that was no longer being used by the company. Obviously the corpse is why. The woman's name is Manaka Iwai, which I am almost certain is the person Hitomi name dropped long, long ago, so this is all coming together.

Hitomi wasn't especially cooperative, and you know what we do with uncooperative people...This is such a dystopian near future lol. Anyway, a pretty big thing was dropped by Pewter. If one spends too long in a somnium, the psyncer and psyncee's memories, consciousness, etc... are swapped. I...hmm. Okay, so this is obviously super important, and I think that I know why. Date, rather Seito, was in Iris' somnium as the OCK. At the very least, I think that Seito/Date is the OCK, and the Date now is someone else via this somnium side effect, which would explain the memory loss. Given Date had a memory as Falco playing with Iris, I have to assume that Date is Falco.

However, I think it goes further than that. I think that is the purpose of this second psync machine. It allows Seito to take over another's body. That leaves a lot of problems, so what I think my theory that that on the other side of the flowchart, different people killed each other is actually what happened, to a degree.
- Technically, it was one mind, Seito, doing the killing.
- He must have already been Shoko I guess?
- Then he took Renju to the chemical plant, became Renju, and killed Shoko at the plant. It was Renju's car seen near the subway entrance or whatever that led to Bloom Park where he dumped the body. -
- Then, he took over Iris and killed Renju, and hauled her 105 lb ass and Renju inside the drum to Sunfish Pocket.
- Then, I guess she was never kidnapped with Ota? She spent 10 minutes at Sejima's, and if Sejima kidnapped her, there would be no point going back to his place. Seito/Iris must have gotten Sejima to that van, spent 45 minutes at the chemical plant to swap bodies with Sejima.
- Seito kept Iris alive though for whatever reason before live-streaming her grisly death.
- Then he somehow got a hold of Boss, swapped, and killed Sejima. Perhaps it goes on further, but I need to unlock that path. It would also suggest that he's taking the eyes, but that was Rohan's fascination, so maybe there is another explanation for that part.

On this side of the flowchart though, if he is still Renju and Renju is still alive, that would explain why the body count hasn't been piling up yet. Wait a second, this is the side where Renju orchestrates Falco's escape. Who is Falco then? Whatever, I don't want to think about it too much right now.

Hitomi's somnium was kind of a breath of fresh air aesthetically, but I also have no idea how I got through that in one shot.
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Day 5: Tuesday kokkAI

My only question now is why Hitomi visits Sejima? I feel like Sejima has to be the father then, and it has to do with that. I did originally think it was him before thinking it could be Renju. I feel like it has to be one of the two, so I will claim a half victory. Yep, Sejima is the father. This makes Iris and Seito half siblings. I'm going out on a limb and guessing he is not aware of that fact, and its eventual revelation will ultimately lead to his undoing.

Based on this flashback here, it seems to cement that Sejima is not the OCK and Seito is. He'd be like 12 here though right? Are we really going to have a 12-year-old serial killer at the center of this? Well, they straight-up said that 12-year-old Seito is most definitely Manaki's killer, so that settles that.

At first I thought it was creepy that Renju would give Hitomi a key to the warehouse to see Manaki's corpse, and maybe it still is, but then I got to thinking that she doesn't have an actual grave and tombstone or anything, so the forklift acts as one, and it isn't explicitly saying that they would lift up the forklift to look at the corpse.

Oh, I totally forgot about Iris' dire medical condition. That is why Hitomi is meeting up with Sejima. Wait, that doesn't make sense! In the flashback that shows Hitomi was responsible for moving Manaki's corpse in the warehouse, confusing Date in the process, she was using a voice modulator to contact Sejima to blackmail him. Why was she meeting up with Sejima in person then? Also, I have some beef with it being revealed Hitomi was behind the body movement. Aiba noticed there was a dead body under the forklift recently, but how would she not notice there was a body under the forklift the earlier time when Date came to the warehouse when he was told that the investigative team found no corpse? What's up with that?
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Okay, so while conversing with Hitomi, I took a look around the room, and neither Pewter nor Hitomi were on the other side of the glass. That cannot be a good sign. Hitomi says Iris was kidnapped. I'm having trouble getting my branching paths straight. This is the path where...YES, this is my true original path that I have said multiple times already. Okay, so (Seito as) Renju has made attempts to get Iris (to swap bodies and kill Renju probably, though Seito can just use someone else right?), and I told her I didn't believe her dumb conspiracy, so she ran off with the person she trusts the most...which is Renju. Yeah this isn't going to end well.

Ooh, even better, Pewter is back to his old tricks since (Seito as) Renju is asking him to do awful things. He pops out with a gun drawn, and Boss is disoriented. LMAO, so Pewter previously had plans accounting for Aiba, and he just totally forgot this time and paid the price. Excessively tying him up and place him in a locker seems a little extreme, even given the circumstances. I guess we are also just leaving Boss behind.

At the chemical plant, someone is trying to delete Aiba. They suspect Pewter? Uh, just a minute ago, I saw him knocked out, tied up, and inside a presumably locked locker. Where the hell is this theory coming from? The only way it could be Pewter is if Boss got resettled, somehow knew exactly where Pewter was at, set him free, and helped him regain consciousness. I would sooner believe that she found him and kicked an unconscious Pewter's ass.

Well there's a dead Renju at this psync machine. I think this confirms that the killer is killing all of his victims inside the plant. I feel better and better about my theory. Oh, someone knocked out Date. Fucking Falco! Why am I not getting who inhabits Falco's body? I'm assuming Seito became Iris, and if that's the case, Falco is still someone else. Well, that thought will have to be put on hold as my True Original Path is once again put on hold through another lock. I guess that means the left side path where Seito (as Boss) commits patricide is where I head to next.
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Hype

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KCF0107 posted...

Aiba noticed there was a dead body under the forklift recently, but how would she not notice there was a body under the forklift the earlier time when Date came to the warehouse when he was told that the investigative team found no corpse? What's up with that?

Yeah that bothered me too but just chalk it up to plot reasons

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Day 5: Tuesday jinnAI

Date is being accused of murder. Since it was mentioned that there is no statute of limitations for murder in Japan, I wonder if it was for past murders or a frame job in one of the present ones. Boss is here, which means it is probably Seito, and that doesn't clear up which murder(s) Date is accused of. Well, othat's one way to clear a room. I guess we are psyncing with Boss/Seito.

I'm assuming this somnium is the chemical plant. I never really got a good look at it before. Well, I see they brought back the lovely loud, fleshy sound effect when someone is repeatedly stabbed. The mystery person stabbing Shoko is that blue-ish purple figure. Given that that they had distinguished between people in somniums before (Rohan was pink or something?), this figure was the same one who stabbed Manaki in Sejima's somnium. That would seem like further proof that Seito killed Shoko. In this very confusing somnium, that I somehow managed to get through eventually, I saw the other murders take place with the same blue-ish figure. I guess I now play the waiting game to see if it is revealed that this one person is the same in mind (Seito) or body (hell if I know).

Day 5: Tuesday ihAI

Oh wow, it seems like I nailed it. Also, I guess his name is Saito. Hopefully I will remember to get his name right from now on. They mentioned parallel worlds again. I'm really hoping there is another explanation, because this will be a super lazy implementation of parallel timelines, and Uchikoshi has gone down that road more than enough by now.

As an aside, assuming Falco is Date, how could he be this bad at his job? Was he always bad? Seeing as it wasn't Falco then that we spoke to about Falco's past, he was lying, but I had assumed Falco was more competent than this. I know he didn't retain specific memories with the consciousness transfer, but as he retained everything virtually everything else about living, you would think he would have the mental makeup to do his slightly different job well.
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Oh, so the left eyes had to be removed to use the prototype psync machine. Was I supposed to know that used to be the case? I guess Pewter might have during one of those extremely dry and long exposition dumps he would give in the ABIS control room. This also means that Date did remove Iris eyeball on her path! I knew it!

So it was obviously personal for Saito to go after who he did and in the way he did it. His motive was revenge on Date? Don't tell me it is because Falco is in Seito's body...it's because Falco is in Seito's body. I guess serial killers don't adhere to the same logic as the rest of us. I will accept this. So all those dosage references from Aiba was because Date kept receiving oxytocin to reach normal levels and not become a psychopath.

So Falco is Date, Seito is Boss, and Rohan is Falco! That makes total sense. I don't know why I didn't think of it. Then he was Rohan when he committed suicide. Oh yeesh, it was Shoko. She was a shitty person, but that's rough to go out like that.

When Hitomi was bomb-strapped, I kept refusing to go along with Saito, and I got a bad end. I regret my decision only because I had to then go through all of that dialogue again (skipping still took a long time) before getting back to the decision. I was honestly expecting another, but I guess not this time. lol, Saito isn't aware of Aiba, so that's good to know.

Annihilation Route End
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I didnt figure out that Saito did multiple body swaps until he confessed the whole thing. So in the end of that Somnium when Date said what the hell is going on I had the same reaction

Also, this reveal changed a lot about what happened in the routes on the left side of the flowchat when you look back at it.