Board 8 > AI: The Somnium Files - A KCF Playthrough Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

I guess all I have left is my True Original Path (I will keep referring to this at that until I forget all about this game or the day I die). Given parallel timelines seem to be a thing in this game, I wonder if this will all wrap up in some neat bow or if they will accept Shoko death prior to the events of the game and possibly Renju's deaths that sparked the beginning of the game.

Day 6: Wednesday sousAI

Okay, so Saito is Falco in this timeline. Rohan is Iris then or...oh, Rohan was Falco and Saito was Renju earlier. They must have swapped. Saito is asking Date knows about swapping bodies with the psync machine, but I think the better question is how Saito knows. I'm just now realizing that this room is the one from Saito/Iris's somnium with the TVs. Well, whoever is Falco just brought up the victims having beautiful eyes, which is what Rohan would say, so now I am confused. Well, I guess Saito is Falco, I don't know why he talked about beautiful eyes though. I forgot about the car crash involving Renju in this timeline, so I guess Rohan died from injuries sustained from it.

Is this the final psync perhaps? Since Date is the psyncee, I wonder if this is what it would be like for all the people we've psynced if they weren't unconscious for the procedure. It's uncomfortable thinking about it.

Day 6: Wednesday hakAI

I stopped almost immediately after leaving the somnium.
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Yeah I was impressed that you figured out the body swapping ahead of time! Couldn't say anything, of course.

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KCF0107 posted...

A really out-there theory is that this is some like Face/Off kind of shit where Falco is really the person who invaded the Sagan residence all those years ago and Date is Falco.

I have to laugh at this (Post 68).

When I resume next, I assume it will be revealed what Boss' dark secret from the past is that Saito was referring to. I'm guessing it has to do with how Falco became Date and Saito became Falco. Maybe Saito learned about this psync machine from her. Other than that, I think pretty much everything major has been revealed, and we just need to save Hitomi/Iris, stop Saito, and fix the timeline or whatever.
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The first 'Iris' psync was very confusing, more so when I did her ShovelForge and shrine syncs on the other route and wondered how they could be so different. Everything made a lot of sense once you find out it was Saito all along.

Not a spoiler, just in case you want to think about it yourself

The most disturbing implication here is that in MIzuki/Ota's end everyone thinks they saved Iris, but it was in fact Sejima in her body missing an eye and dying of cancer. And Saito was actually Boss in Ota's end

Oh wow I never thought about that. That's sick lol

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handsomeboy2012 posted...

Not a spoiler, just in case you want to think about it yourself

The most disturbing implication here is that in MIzuki/Ota's end everyone thinks they saved Iris, but it was in fact Sejima in her body missing an eye and dying of cancer. And Saito was actually Boss in Ota's end

(still not a spoiler, just continuing this line of thought)

Yeah, in retrospect it made sense that Ota's route cut off where it did, because otherwise things get very weird the moment Iris wakes up, or possibly earlier depending on what Boss/Saito does, and the game's not ready for those reveals. But it was pretty annoying at the time.
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Boss is apparently a long-time friend of Date's. Based on that one somnium inside the Sagan residence that ended with Boss bursting in, a betrayal perhaps? That or Rohan and Falco were body swapped. On second thought, the body swapping theory is probably going to be along the right line. Well, that was Boss' plan anyway, and we know things turned out differently. Well, plans went to hell almost immediately! How is it possible for Rohan as Falco to slip by, especially with Pewter and Boss facing the door? I remember reading way earlier about the setup of the control and psync room, but I was under the impression that the only exit to the psync room ultimately ended up at the control room. Oh shit, it was Falco (as Rohan) who shot Hitomi. Yeah, I probably wouldn't have forgiven myself for that either.

It makes sense how Rohan stayed in Falco's body being immediately arrested. Did Falco as Rohan volunteer to swap with Saito, whether out of guilt or a sense of duty or both? That seems a bit convoluted and unnecessary, so it is probably something simpler than that. Yeah, Saito stole the other psync machine and forced him. What a dumbass plan of Saito's. He was self-aware of his brain disorder, and should have known that his brain chemistry would be totally different than what he was accustomed to unless he subconsciously wanted to be rid of his condition. Probably a long shot as years away from his brain didn't stop him from killing anyone. I still don't understand how Saito learned about the psync machines in the first place or where they were located. I think they had established that Sejima had no idea about them either, so I don't know who is left to have given that info to Saito since it is seeming less likely that Boss leaked it.

Speaking of Sejima, I thought I read that he helped Falco in his transition to his new identity, or at least I think that it is something along those lines when Boss namedropped him while speaking of that topic. Sejima did call Date son though...

Uh, why the hell is Moma here? Aiba called him? I thought all of her functions were down and could only speak to Date. I'm sure there was a better option than calling Moma, and apparently Mizuki and Ota.
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KCF0107 posted...

Sejima did call Date son though...

That Sejima you killed in Mizukis end was actually Saito. The real one doesnt know about the body swap.

During the scuffle, Mizkuki was clearly shot in the leg as the bullet wound was on her upper thigh. I had to laugh when the option to speak to her read, "How's your foot?"

I remember the conversation early in the game where Aiba talked about her self-destruct feature and it was obvious it would eventually come into play, but jeez that was like a month ago and totally forgot about it. I wasn't actually expecting the head to blowup, I thought self-destruct was more of a generalization and it would like leave him brain dead or something.

3 Months Later: kassAI

"Are you sure your brain has fully recovered" - Date to Iris at shrine
- Oh so the blackmail plan worked? Oh, the government paid her in hush money. Did everyone else get paid too then?

"Then I guess you're immortal now?" - Date
" We'll see in 50 years." - Iris
- You're planning to only live until your late 60s?
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handsomeboy2012 posted...

That Sejima you killed in Mizukis end was actually Saito. The real one doesnt know about the body swap.

It's so hard to keep everything straight
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Wait, in Japan, do pharmacists and hospital nurses have a very close working relationship and hospitals send nurses to deliver medications to former patients? I would have thought nurses would have more pressing matters to attend to on the job, and if anything, there would be people whose job is specifically to deliver medication.

Oh hey, one of Sejima's bodyguards is here at Marble. It's nice to actually see someone else at the establishment for a change. So Iris was wearing a headband that happened to resemble animal ears because it prevented her tumor from spreading. Uh huh.

I have another major issue with something in the game. Sejima and Saito knew about the latter's brain condition. If an oxytocin deficiency is the issue here, and there exists a supplement for it, here is a crazy thought, but just pay for the supplement? It kind of cheapens that the entire game is based on this condition, and it was extremely preventable with how wealthy Sejima is. He even complained about how expensive it was to cover up Saito's crimes back in the day.

You know, I am just reminded that it was Saito, as Iris I think, when we saw the somnium where what turned out to be Saito kissing his presumably dead dad with a woman's body. That's a lot to digest.
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"I thought of kicking his ass" - Date on Ota
- Go with your instinct!

Since apparently Lemniscate has multiple owners, whether public or privately owned, does Japan allow minors to do more with their shares in a company? I am pretty sure in the US a minor can own but not "act on" their shares. If so, I feel sorry for Lemnsicate's future if Mizuki is calling the shots.

My favorite thing to do in the game might be clicking on everything in Boss' office while she's there as it may be the greatest (or at least the most reliable) source of humor in the game. Anyway, clicking on the birthday sign led to this exchange:
- "Everyday is like my birthday" - Boss
- "Wow, then you must be very old!" - Iris
*long pause*
- "I'm going to take that down" - Boss

Hmm, Boss hit Date with knockout gas, and Pewter is here. I don't know what role the psync machine is in all of this, but I would be shocked if what just happened wasn't Date being given a new AI eyeball partner. Oh, it is actually Aiba.

And we end the game on a dance number where nearly every character happened to come to the warehouse at dusk.

Game Over
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Overall, I would say that I liked the game, or at least I am glad that I took the time to play it. It for the most part recovered from that disastrous first route that somehow managed to be both bloated and empty. I actually think it was good and important to experience the route I did first because not only is it great to get something so shitty out of the way early, but it introduced a lot of small mysteries that were to be solved in other routes. Unlike 999, and the Zero Escape series as a whole, I would have a hard time recommending it to someone else though.

I will do a character ranking later on, but overall, this was a disappointing cast to me. I do not watch anime or play many anime-styled games. I do not like the typical characterization route that they go: very thin characters that appear more developed than they actually are through sensationalism and who also have one defining character trait they use ad nauseam, typically for comedic effect. Given the level of nuance shown in 999, and even knowing it took a sharp decline with VLR and ZTD (it was still far above what I usually encountered), I was expecting more than dumb anime drivel. I won't go into further details until later, but there were only a few quality standout characters. Those characters really carried the game far, so I'm thankful for them.

The voice work far eclipsed what they had to work with. YMMV with the irrelevant, exposition-heavy dialog. I thought it worked well for 999 and it was okay for VLR/ZTD. Here, it just didn't have any pay off. I was mildly interested in the Egyptian mythology parts, but I can't think of anything else that piqued my interest. When it came to comedy, there's a difference between dirty and creepy, perverted humor. I prefer my humor to be neither, which is why my favorite stuff was the dumb stuff they said when clicking on random objects in the game. However, most of the character-based humor in the game was of the creepy, perverted kind. Like, do the voice actors cringe when they read the material and go "well a job's a job." Do they have to watch cat videos immediately after a session to keep their minds off of what just happened. It seemed like Boss got like 80% of the acceptably dirty material, and everyone else was fighting for scraps or at least hope to not end up like Ota or Moma.

The parallel world effect had absolutely no artistic value in this game. It was solely implemented as a way to prevent the player getting the true ending on their first route. Yes, it obviously would not have gone over well given how they segmented things, but I don't think half-assing it for I presume budget and creative issues is the way to go. It's just lazy.

When you are coming off of how amazing the Zero Escape puzzles are, I can't imagine many people who played those before this game were satisfied with the somniums. As I mentioned before, they are poorly designed at their core. Why would anyone think that a time-sensitive, trial-and-error setup to where your guesses in every sense of the word are the only means to affect what you experience was a sound idea? I think that is what gets to me the most about this game. There was so much wasted potential there.

Going back to anime drivel, I am okay with suspending my disbelief, and I am okay with some minor plot holes, but the frequency you sacrifice rationality and the way you go about it are imperative, as well as how the world is established. When it came to this game, well, there were many times that left me thinking "yikes!" One of the worst things you can do is completely trivialize what you have established and forsake all logic for the sake of rigidly moving the plot forward. For example, some of those shooting segments were fine. The one inside of the Sagan residence was succinct and given how few players were involved and Aiba's capabilities well established, the sequence made sense to unfold the way that it did. However others just did whatever they wanted as a means to get from Point A to Point B even if it made absolutely no sense whatsoever, leaving me angry with what I experienced.

I think that they were pretty clever about the overarching plot, and while I was not a fan of the scene-to-scene sequence of events, I really like the story as a whole. I am also glad they didn't go for the overly-saccharine ending. Shoko and Renju are still dead, and Hitomi and Falco didn't immediately get back together or anything, though it seems inevitable. It still had its share of happy moments to not be a downer though, like Date legally adopting Mizuki and Aiba returning. I want to be clear that I do not like super depressing endings, so I think of all the possible endings they could have had, this is among the best they could have gone with.
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I think a lot of the problems you had boiled down to it being too anime. I have high tolerance for that kind of stuff, so I didn't mind at all, but I can certainly understand why some won't like that.

Agree that the Somniums are mostly trial and error. I liked their themes and atmosphere, but they're hardly puzzles with a few exceptions. There is a bit of strategy with timies but they introduced some with ??? times which make things impossible. Luckily they don't take long I guess it's better to treat it as a way to look into the characters.

I particularly enjoyed the Annihilation route because the reveals there upended some other routes and made me look at those in a different light

KCF0107 posted...

I will do a character ranking later on, but overall, this was a disappointing cast to me. I do not watch anime or play many anime-styled games.

I like anime and I thought the cast was pretty disappointing! Aiba and Mizuki were the only characters I particularly liked. Iris/Ota were bad. For a while I thought Iris was going to have interesting hidden depths based on her left-side somnium, but you know how that turned out.

My big problem with the story is the culprit kinda comes out of nowhere. I spent the whole game suspecting everyone, only to find out "it's actually Mystery Person X, aka none of the above." (Probably worse for me since I did the entire left-hand side, minus the locked part of Annihilation route, before doing any of the right.) It was clever, I appreciated that, but not satisfying.

KCF0107 posted...

Shoko and Renju are still dead

Shoko being dead is a good ending imoooo, good riddance
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To be fair, you had Saito's face the whole time, and that it was mentioned several times Sejima had a son. So the culprit didn't come out of the blue, but it wasn't properly foreshadowed.

And I don't think it was wrong to suspect everyone, after all their bodies were used to commit murder

Oh yeah, I mentioned this before but not post-game, but they really needed the ability to view a timeline of events on a given path. It was difficult for me to remember what occurred on what path, and given the convoluted narrative structure and the role Saito ultimately played in everything, having a useful visual aid would have cut down the head-scratching moments significantly.
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Yeah. I was trying to remember the body swap sequence with Rohan while reading through the end of the topic and was confusing myself!

I really liked the game, though; unlike you I liked most of the cast, which helped (pretty much everyone besides Ota and his mom).

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Character Rankings

All the characters being considered were taken solely from the persons album within the game, and I combined/broke up entries within that where I saw fit. Ultimately, 26 will be ranked.

26. Shoko

She made a living exploiting the gullible and profiting off their suffering, and she was an abusive mother. There's a special place in hell for her.

25. Mayumi

I was the caregiver for my dementia-addled grandmother for awhile, so no I am not being discriminatory for her condition. She just sucks all around.

24. Ota

I give him major credit for being one of the few that showed actual character growth (mostly stemming from flashbacks I will admit), but the dude is a major delusional stalker creep. He's also a dumbass in an unfunny way.

23. Renju

So we never saw in during the events of the game, and he was actually already dead, but he seems like he could have been an okay character. He really sucks at parenting though, and probably being a husband too, not that I doubt Shoko was also a terrible spouse.

22. Nurse

Who gives a shit?
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21. Yakuza B

This is the smaller, older one right? Did he do or say anything interesting in his very brief appearances?

20. Manaka

She didn't really make an impression.

19. Takero

Generic dad character. At least he yelled at Ota once.

18. Yakuza A

If this is the younger, larger one, they at least utilized him some.

17. Mermaid

She exploits Ota for money. That makes her okay in my book as someone has to teach him a lesson
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16. Rohan

95% used in flashbacks, with the remaining 5% while in Falco's body in the interrogation room iirc. Well, he didn't seem all that interesting as a character, but at least he had an interesting impact on the plot.

15. Mama

I think this Japanese portrayal of a LBGT member wasn't egregiously bad like what I have seen in the past. I got a kick out of the dumb fridge jokes.

14. Moma

The creepy, pervy humor was incredibly cringey. He was pretty good outside of his Iris panty/boobs schtick. He also disowned his brother postpartum, so good for him.

13. Iris

I'm not going to give her a pass for her tumor, she had plenty of annoying streaks, and I am holding it against her for her awful path. Her ditziness being used for lame jokes all the time got old immediately. She's a pretty bad singer too. Given her big role, she had her moments from time-to-time though.
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12. Pewter

I kind of feel bad that pretty much everyone should be in jail at the conclusion of the game, but he's the only one who ended up getting in serious trouble. I also feel bad that he's taken for granted since without his work, ABIS doesn't get off the ground, and this mystery doesn't get solved. Still, he did a series of really dumb things because fake Renju simply asked him to. That's not love, that's just stupid.

11. Taxi Driver

For as small of a role as he had, he made the most of it. He was weird in a goofy, cool way. I would have liked to see him a little more, but it's possible that would have made him lose his luster in my eyes.

10. Sejima

There's a case to be made for him getting the rawest deal out of anyone in the game. I felt like he had the deepest character out of anyone, but they only skimmed the surface to ensure he would be made out to be a total shitbag. He certainly was a shitbag, but there was more to him than that, and I hate that they didn't do even a cursory dive into some of the more fascinating attributes or questions surrounding him.

9. Kagami

Maybe I should attribute this to Date more than him, but I loved the recurring gag of his name always being forgotten. One of my favorite bits outside of Boss' office was when you kept asking for his name at Sunfish Pocket when you brought Mizuki over for another pair of eyes. Here is a little girl who lost her other parent (well body anyway since that was Iris), and she took the time to defend Kagami when Date kept forgetting his name only for Kagami to snap at her agreeing with Date that two best buds were having a conversation. The astonished look on her face was priceless. Thanks Kagami!

8. Mizuki

Her dynamic with Date was just so weird, and that was like 70% of her screen time in the game. She helped make up for it with what was easily the best ending route for any of the characters. She really shone when she was given the spotlight. The situations where they reminded everyone she was still just a little kid were also well done. I will always cherish her hilarious bit in the ending song.
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Tough crowd
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I really liked Mizuki besides the dumb super strength thing

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7. Hitomi

For most of the game, she just kind of a generic nice woman/mother, but I kind of like warm mother characters as long as they aren't too plain. I also have mixed feelings about her being the de facto pity magnet in the game. However, I give her major props for coming up with an adequate blackmail scheme.

6. Bodyguards

Present with Sejima at his house half the time, I appreciate getting something out of them after always being stonewalled by Sejima. I think they should have leaned harder into the humor with them because they had a relatively good success rate there. I won't hold it against them for their moronic behavior during the shootout.

5. Receptionist

Whoever decided that she should speak like a valley girl was a genius. That's usually a very abrasive style, but I loved every second of it with her. One my favorite voice acting moments in the game was when Date blurted out calling her big tits or whatever, and she responded with an incredulous "uh, what?" I am very curious what she sounds like in Japanese since I don't know if they have a comparative valley girl there.
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I went back to look at that ending song and realized that Hitomi was moving her right arm when it was supposed to be paralyzed

4. Date/Falco

He has two major things against him. The first is that he has no business being in law enforcement as he should have been fired/suspended at least a dozen times, and that is excluding his time before the game when he abused his power and also moonlighted as a contract killer). The odds of anyone reading this also reading my Danganronpa playthrough in 2015 are probably low, but I am sometimes reminded of Makoto when I watch Date create problems or fail to solve pre-existing problems because he makes idiotic decisions. I "understand" that they "have" to do that for plot conveniences and ensuring this game is twice as long as it would have been otherwise, but that doesn't mean it isn't bad.

The second is that he is a creep, though he is nothing compared to Ota or Moma as he can hide it outside of Aiba and the receptionist. That being said, he plays off of most of the cast very well, and it's hard not to root for him.

3. Saito

He is without question the most essential character to this game. The game completely falls apart if they had constructed a lesser villain than the one we got. In one of those it-makes-absolutely-no-sense-but-I-am-willing-to-accept-it, it is wild looking back at all the times Saito impersonated and largely fooled me (there were probably several times that I scrutinized why X character was doing at Y action at Z moment) with his most recent murder victim. This is one of those plots that one would expect the villain to be over-the-top cartoony, but I have to appreciate them holding him back a bit but simultaneously let everyone else look the fool. I can't help but be reminded of Zero Time Dilemma's Delta, a character I ranked #1 from that game.
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Saito is pretty great yeah. Glad to see aiba will be #1 where she belongs

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KCF0107 posted...

I can't help but be reminded of Zero Time Dilemma's Delta, a character I ranked #1 from that game.

Speaking of Delta, he shares the same voice actor as Falco, and all I could think of during the ending and epilogue of AI was that one YTP

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handsomeboy2012 posted...

I went back to look at that ending song and realized that Hitomi was moving her right arm when it was supposed to be paralyzed

I was curious since you mentioned it, and you are totally right. I knew she was a faker!
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2. Boss

I wish she played a bigger role as she apparently did her heavy lifting prior to the events of the game. I'm glad I got what I could out of her teasing, frenetic outbursts, and general insanity because it was fantastic. If there were hours upon hours of content of banter between her and Date inside her office, you bet your ass I would witness every second of it. Every time I saw that we were going to ABIS and it wasn't clear that we were there to psync, I was writhing in anticipation of going into Boss' office. There were several times I was met with complete disappointment as the mood was super serious and clicking on objects yielded nothing, but I am eternally grateful for what they did give me.

I think out of all the characters, her voice actor did the best job with their character. She really sold some lines that made me question if Boss was serious, unhinged, or simply chaffing me. I would have never guessed that the person who voiced Boss also did/does Bloodhound for Apex Legends.
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1. Aiba

It is kind of funny that a character in a plot-heavy game who you could pretty much cut out of the game and little would change ends up as my favorite. Her role is basically just a plot device that helps a mediocre detective like Date solve a mystery in a week and also save the day when all hope is lost. Given Mizuki could enter somniums, I don't think it is necessary for Aiba to be the one who you control in somniums. I'm sure they provided an explanation, but I just don't remember.

Anyway. she's fantastic. Between her idiosyncrasies (aside from her fascination with bugs that goes nowhere), dumb bits when entering a somnium, ridiculous appearance (both forms), and her often antogonistic and unsympathetic demeanor toward Date, she rarely failed to be entertaining, and she was there A LOT.

The moment she fed me the line, "Look at this hot magnum. I could ventilate some crooks with this thing" with a completely serious tone, she had a stranglehold on the top spot (let's ignore that there were only like three characters at that point) that she would never be in danger of letting go.
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Full Rankings
1. Aiba
2. Boss
3. Saito
4. Date/Falco
5. Receptionist
6. Bodyguards
7. Hitomi
8. Mizuki
9. Kagami
10. Sejima
11. Taxi Driver
12. Pewter
13. Iris
14. Moma
15. Mama
16. Rohan
17. Mermaid
18. Yakuza A
19. Takero
20. Manaka
21. Yakuza B
22. Nurse
23. Renju
24. Ota
25. Mayumi
26. Shoko
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I assume that Aiba first and Shoko last are the consensus opinion, but I expect everything between isn't.
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why is the bodyguard so high

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Because they were entertaining when exposing their dumb and silly sides. Was there a particular bodyguard you were thinking of? They all looked and acted the same to me.

Also, I thinking you are conflating their ranking with me thinking they're great characters. I mentioned this in my post-game analysis, but I found the cast to be disappointing and specifically said there were few quality characters. Hell, I called #7 sort of generic!
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I'm pretty sure that all three of Aiba/Boss/Date being in the top tier is pretty normal, but I'm not sure there's any consensus beyond that + Shoko at the bottom

Aibas bug fascination was great!

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Perhaps tiers are a better route

Great
1. Aiba
2. Boss

Good.
3. Saito
4. Date/Falco

Above Average
5. Receptionist
6. Bodyguards
7. Hitomi

Average
8. Mizuki
9. Kagami
10. Sejima
11. Taxi Driver
12. Pewter

Below Average
13. Iris
14. Moma
15. Mama
16. Rohan
17. Mermaid
18. Yakuza A
19. Takero
20. Manaka
21. Yakuza B
22. Nurse
23. Renju

Terrible
24. Ota
25. Mayumi
26. Shoko
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I don't know why my edits turned into completely new posts!
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Aibas bug fascination was great!

Unless I completely missed something, she said basically the same line in the same tone with a different insect name like ten times.
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KCF0107 posted...

The odds of anyone reading this also reading my Danganronpa playthrough in 2015 are probably low

Link?


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I can remember to do so when I get on my laptop. Ytterbium took screenshots and archived Danganronpa 1 and 2 in Google Drive.
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KCF0107 posted...

Unless I completely missed something, she said basically the same line in the same tone with a different insect name like ten times.

Yeah, and it was really cute!

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https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B041re3wZYDgaUpnUWpERnVHVUU - DR1

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B041re3wZYDgV2Z3SXNON3l1MUU - DR2

I haven't actually checked up on these to know if everything's there, but I assume all the important stuff is.
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I do see one thing cut off at the end of the DR1 playthrough, and that is part of my character rankings.

1. Sayaka, 2. Aoi

There's also various unviewable spoiler tags, mostly by others discussing parts of the game that I wasn't at yet.

All of DR2 character rankings didn't make it.

1. Mahiru
2. Kaz
3. Hajime
4. Ibuki
5. Nagito
6. "Byakuya"
7. Fuyu
8. Chiaki
9. Peko
10. Neko
11. Akane
12. Sonia
13. Gundham
14. Monokuma
15. Hiyoko
16. Mikan
17. Usami/Monomi
18. Teru
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Thanks, I enjoyed reading those. Looks like you're missing the end of 2 though.

Did you ever play V3?

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No, about a week before I started AI, I ran a poll asking what game to do a playthrough topic for on my birthday. AI won over V3
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glad to see Date's good friend Kaniza making your top 10 characters

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KCF0107 posted...

No, about a week before I started AI, I ran a poll asking what game to do a playthrough topic for on my birthday. AI won over V3

Ok. I'll be interested in reading your thoughts when you get around to it. What was your final verdict on 2 compared to 1?

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