Poll of the Day > Trump Officially Creates another Military Branch, the 'Space Force'...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vktkmrK0XII

If you was able, would you join it over the others? (Poll Question)

A space force would be required for operating orbital drone weapons, so ya - that'd be cool.

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Another waste of resources.

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I still don't see the point of this, seems like a waste of money and personnel, but that's not a new thing with our military by any means.

Cruddy_horse posted...

I still don't see the point of this, seems like a waste of money and personnel, but that's not a new thing with our military by any means.

the point is to try to get any headlines that arent talking about impeachment

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Mead posted...

the point is to try to get any headlines that arent talking about impeachment

But the whole Space Force thing was, like, month 1 stuff... this isn't new

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Cruddy_horse posted...

I still don't see the point of this, seems like a waste of money and personnel, but that's not a new thing with our military by any means.

It's really not that crazy. As technology advances, there will be new ways to fight war. Space is already home to spy satellites, how long until it's filled with armed weapons platforms that could rain down destruction on anyone they wished?

The future is space, and while we don't need space defense right NOW, we certainly will in the not so distant future. Security will be about more than defending our skies and land; we'll have to secure and defend the atmosphere and outer reaches of the planet as well.

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WindMouseHanpan posted...

It's really not that crazy. As technology advances, there will be new ways to fight war. Space is already home to spy satellites, how long until it's filled with armed weapons platforms that could rain down destruction on anyone they wished?

The future is space, and while we don't need space defense right NOW, we certainly will in the not so distant future. Security will be about more than defending our skies and land; we'll have to secure and defend the atmosphere and outer reaches of the planet as well.

Yeah. But space was already owned by the Air Force. He just took some away from us...
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LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. But space was already owned by the Air Force. He just took some away from us...

This. The mission of the Air Force is to "fly, fight and win in air, space and cyberspace."

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I wasn't aware the Air Force extended to space defense as well. I guess cuz when I think Air Force I usually think jet fighters and the like.

Well this does seem pointless then, if it's something that already fell into the full control and protection of the Air Force...

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WindMouseHanpan posted...

It's really not that crazy. As technology advances, there will be new ways to fight war. Space is already home to spy satellites, how long until it's filled with armed weapons platforms that could rain down destruction on anyone they wished?

The Outer Space Treaty, of which the US, Russia, and China are parties, among others, prohibits the placing of weapons of mass destruction in space and limits the use of the moon and all celestial bodies to peaceful purposes only.

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WindMouseHanpan posted...

I wasn't aware the Air Force extended to space defense as well. I guess cuz when I think Air Force I usually think jet fighters and the like.

Well this does seem pointless then, if it's something that already fell into the full control and protection of the Air Force...

Basically. So its a waste of money and resources now... Not like he cares, anyway...
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WindMouseHanpan posted...

It's really not that crazy. As technology advances, there will be new ways to fight war. Space is already home to spy satellites, how long until it's filled with armed weapons platforms that could rain down destruction on anyone they wished?

The future is space, and while we don't need space defense right NOW, we certainly will in the not so distant future. Security will be about more than defending our skies and land; we'll have to secure and defend the atmosphere and outer reaches of the planet as well.

I cannot die happy until I witness humanity blowing each other up with lasers in space.

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captpackrat posted...

The Outer Space Treaty, of which the US, Russia, and China are parties, among others, prohibits the placing of weapons of mass destruction in space and limits the use of the moon and all celestial bodies to peaceful purposes only.

Wait, we have laws in place to prevent something like Artemis Necklace?

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What purpose does it even serve?

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creativerealms posted...

What purpose does it even serve?

None. Hes just doing stuff to do it. Maybe to make headlines talk about this stupid idea rather than the impeachment. Who knows, honestly...
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Wait, we have laws in place to prevent something like Artemis Necklace?

Yup. But funnily enough, the treaty only forbids nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction from being stationed in orbit.

Conventional weapons and kinetic bombardment is still fair game.


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T0ffee posted...

Yup. But funnily enough, the treaty only forbids nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction from being stationed in orbit.

Conventional weapons and kinetic bombardment is still fair game.

In which case I am not actually sure it would forbid them, seeing as the books never make clear what they actually are beyond a "chained defence system".

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This is one of the few things Trump has been trying to push through that I agree with and support. Air superiority wins wars, and it follows that as technology advances, space superiority will become more and more crucial to maintaining the upper hand in international conflict. I'm 100% in support of this, just hope they build the branch intelligently and don't just throw money into the program with no real plan.

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Far-Queue posted...

This is one of the few things Trump has been trying to push through that I agree with and support. Air superiority wins wars, and it follows that as technology advances, space superiority will become more and more crucial to maintaining the upper hand in international conflict. I'm 100% in support of this, just hope they build the branch intelligently and don't just throw money into the program with no real plan.

Yeah, to me it was always "this is something that's going to be needed at some point or another" to me.

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LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. But space was already owned by the Air Force. He just took some away from us...

space cannot be owned by anyone.

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Locke90 posted...

space cannot be owned by anyone.

Thats not true, treaties can be broken

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Locke90 posted...

space cannot be owned by anyone.

Yeaaaaah, and Antarctica is owned by everyone as well.
I bet you once any actual material wealth is able to be taken in space, everyone's going to fight over it. Treaties are just pieces of paper.

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Locke90 posted...

space cannot be owned by anyone.

Owned is the wrong word. Most like in our jurisdiction or our responsibility.

The reason I personally dont think it needs to be its own branch (or at least yet) is because there is no reason for it yet. It would just be a waste of money and resources. Especially building a bunch of new bases, changing existing bases, and actually getting people to join AND stay in. And it becomes wasted money when people just get out because its not what they thought it was. Maybe when we advance technology and actually start doing more with space that requires more manpower. Until then, just seems like a waste to me when you already have people and bases trained to deal with this in the Air Force. Thats how I feel, at least...
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Locke90 posted...

space cannot be owned by anyone.

sure it can

eff the space police

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Oh, fun fact, the location of what was international waters was defined to be a certain amount of miles from the shoreline, until the United States had people go into international waters, but still apart of the continental shelf. Then, the US claimed up until the continental shelf.

Treaties are fine until it costs money.

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LinkPizza posted...

Owned is the wrong word. Most like in our jurisdiction or our responsibility.

The reason I personally dont think it needs to be its own branch (or at least yet) is because there is no reason for it yet. It would just be a waste of money and resources. Especially building a bunch of new bases, changing existing bases, and actually getting people to join AND stay in. And it becomes wasted money when people just get out because its not what they thought it was. Maybe when we advance technology and actually start doing more with space that requires more manpower. Until then, just seems like a waste to me when you already have people and bases trained to deal with this in the Air Force. Thats how I feel, at least...

Part of establishing superiority is getting to it first, as well as having the best weapons and tech and best-trained operatives. Have to beat countries like Russia and China to the punch.

So you're right... Maybe it's not necessary now, but it's best to get this ball rolling early and establish ourselves before we're scrambling to defend ourselves from some new, advanced threat

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Here's the thing:

1. At some point, in the future, this will be needed. Either a section of another branch (like the marines are technically a section of the navy), or its own branch.
2. The military works best with a system in place that they can work off of.

So It's good to have it written in stone now rather than later.

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Far-Queue posted...

Part of establishing superiority is getting to it first, as well as having the best weapons and tech and best-trained operatives. Have to beat countries like Russia and China to the punch.

So you're right... Maybe it's not necessary now, but it's best to get this ball rolling early and establish ourselves before we're scrambling to defend ourselves from some new, advanced threat

And? That changes nothing. We already have people doing those jobs in the Air Force. All making a space Force does is cost more money by having multiple people do the same job. Its not like were in need of the Space Force yet. And we already have people trained for the jobs they already need. Making a Space Force now doesnt make us any more trained or give us an edge as we already have woolens trained for hose jobs. And any new jobs will need recruits, anyway. Whether we have the Space Force already or not..

Making the Space Force isnt just getting the ball rolling. Its buying baby gifts when youre still thinking about getting pregnant. If we were more advanced and dealing with space more than we are now, maybe I said Id think it be fine for it to be a sub-branch of the Air Force. But right now, it just seems like waste. And at a bad time, based on manning requirements...
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My foreign friend was talking about how we should have a whole space ship army with our defense budget by now. Nice to see his joke slowly coming true

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Having a branch dedicated to space is going to be vital in the future. Having the Air Force patrolling space is fine for now. But we need to build towards having a full-fledged branch or subsidiary dedicated to space, or we run the risk of being spread too thin or being overmatched in the area of space if some other country accelerates their own space force program ahead of ours, or if some conflict arises where we need the Air Force to fight a battle on two fronts.

Of course it's expensive, but it's also crucial to maintaining complete military superiority.

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Far-Queue posted...

Having a branch dedicated to space is going to be vital in the future. Having the Air Force patrolling space is fine for now. But we need to build towards having a full-fledged branch or subsidiary <u>dedicated</u> to space, or we run the risk of being spread too thin or being overmatched in the area of space if some other country accelerates their own space force program ahead of ours, or if some conflict arises where we need the Air Force to fight a battle on two fronts.

Of course it's expensive, but it's also crucial to maintaining complete military superiority.

Making a branch isn't going to make new people, though. If they need more people, they recruit more people. It's as simple as that. Making a new branch when we still don't need one is what's going to spread us too thin when we're already hurting for people...

And as of right now, since we do handle space, we can't do more by just getting a branch that does exactly what the Air Force does and calling it something different. That's what I don't understand. You going to get a few people who already does what the Air Force does, call it something different, and think that means we have superiority now? That's doesn't make any sense to me...

When there's a need for the Space Force, we get it. Because if we make it now, there's nothing they're doing that isn't already being handled... Which is a waste of money and resources... Which we already don't have... And cuts manning, which is already low...
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Tremendous wasted opportunity at a cool name. Should have been Space Marines.

WindMouseHanpan posted...

It's really not that crazy. As technology advances, there will be new ways to fight war. Space is already home to spy satellites, how long until it's filled with armed weapons platforms that could rain down destruction on anyone they wished?

The future is space, and while we don't need space defense right NOW, we certainly will in the not so distant future. Security will be about more than defending our skies and land; we'll have to secure and defend the atmosphere and outer reaches of the planet as well.

This. Well, except for the orbital attack stations, nobody wants to start that arms race.

GanonsSpirit posted...

This. The mission of the Air Force is to "fly, fight and win in air, space and cyberspace."

Then they should have renamed it the Air and Space Force

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We should be focusing more on science and exploration
But no, let's just shoot a bunch of stormtroopers and atom bombs into space. Whatever


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LinkPizza posted...

Making a branch isn't going to make new people, though. If they need more people, they recruit more people. It's as simple as that. Making a new branch when we still don't need one is what's going to spread us too thin when we're already hurting for people...

And as of right now, since we do handle space, we can't do more by just getting a branch that does exactly what the Air Force does and calling it something different. That's what I don't understand. You going to get a few people who already does what the Air Force does, call it something different, and think that means we have superiority now? That's doesn't make any sense to me...

When there's a need for the Space Force, we get it. Because if we make it now, there's nothing they're doing that isn't already being handled... Which is a waste of money and resources... Which we already don't have... And cuts manning, which is already low...

Are you under the impression that I'm saying that Trump announcing a Space Force means it's going to materialize out of thin air? As I've already said, they need to plan and build this thing properly.

It's going to take time. It's going to take resources. It's going to take a whole hell of a lot of money. And it's going to require people. Some I would think would come from other branches until the thing was fully operational, but yes. They'll need to recruit and train a shit ton of people. And they need to start to get this thing rolling. Saying they need to start getting this thing going does not mean "instantly put together a Space Force out of nothing to the detriment of the Air Force". It means plan the thing out, study what needs and goals we need to fulfill, invest in training and tech and weaponry, build said tech and weapons, train the soldiers, etc and etc and etc.

I agree to an extent that it doesn't necessarily need to be a whole separate branch, which is why I drew the comparison to the Marines. But it definitely needs to happen, and the sooner the better.

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How about we evolve to the point that military defense isn't needed? Hmm...

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Far-Queue posted...

Are you under the impression that I'm saying that Trump announcing a Space Force means it's going to materialize out of thin air? As I've already said, they need to plan and build this thing properly.

It's going to take time. It's going to take resources. It's going to take a whole hell of a lot of money. And it's going to require people. Some I would think would come from other branches until the thing was fully operational, but yes. They'll need to recruit and train a shit ton of people. And they need to start to get this thing rolling. Saying they need to start getting this thing going does not mean "instantly put together a Space Force out of nothing to the detriment of the Air Force". It means plan the thing out, study what needs and goals we need to fulfill, invest in training and tech and weaponry, build said tech and weapons, train the soldiers, etc and etc and etc.

I agree to an extent that it doesn't necessarily need to be a whole separate branch, which is why I drew the comparison to the Marines. But it definitely needs to happen, and the sooner the better.

Training literally can't happen until they have jobs. Training for all the normal stuff like personnel, for example, can be finished in 6 weeks. And even then, that's stuff that can be done with anybody who does personnel without any branch. If they create a Space Force when needed, that's fine. Creating it now will always seem like a waste since there isn't a need for it... And I don't see any need for it right now. Maybe is years when we have more technology that would make a Space Force needed. Though, even then, I;m still not sure. But nothing will change my mind about not needing one now. Because when we need one, we already have the trained personnel to do the jobs. Any new jobs would need trained personnel that couldn't be picked out until the job was needed and created. For example, if you need a maintainer to fix a specific item, you can't train them on how to fix and item until it's already been built. Anything that's already built for military use for space is already most likely Air Force. And you already have trained personnel for it. So, you already have trained personnel for stuff already built, and can't train new personnel for stuff not built yet. As the military is already having trouble getting people, it would be better to wait until the new branch is needed... Or there is more or a need for one. As there doesn't seem to be right now... Not more than we already have...
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I don't know what you're not getting about this. Once again, this thing isn't just going to pop out of thin air. It's a process. Of course they can't train until they have jobs. I'm not putting the cart before the horse, only pointing out that the US needs to create a military force dedicated to space, and the sooner the better.

And all this stuff you keep saying about "we don't need it right now..." is exactly my point. We need to make sure our fighting forces are in place ahead of any potential rivals. Meaning, we need to out ours in place before it's needed, or else we may end up getting caught with our pants down. We have personnel and equipment to take care of our needs now. But we need to ensure that we're leading the world in technology and capabilities to patrol space. You would rather wait for Russia to expand their capabilities, leaving the US vulnerable to potential attack in the interim? That makes no sense. Part of keeping our military superiority in place is being prepared for any and all threats.

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We already have the Air Force, so we are ahead. As soon as we need a Space Force, then we can use the Air Force personnel who are trained already. And be training more for the Space Force. There's no reason to waste money on it now. Why train a bunch of troops to literally do what people are already doing. Then we have an overabundance, and are wasting money and resources... Why do we need to train thousands of extra people to do what's already being done? Why waste billions of dollars we don't have to create something without a need right now? How are we going to be caught with our pants down while already having a military force that already has "responsibility" or space. What is that new military branch going to be doing for the unneeded years that Air Force can't already? It makes no sense to me to think that just having a new branch with a new name that does what's already being done is going to help in any way... You say part of being in superiority is being prepared. Well, guess what? We already are. Getting a bunch of new people with a new name doesn't magically make us more prepared. It doesn't do anything...
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**** yeah! Sign me up >:)

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Right, Link. But as needs grow we'll need more and more personnel, and that will warrant a dedicated force. Best to start planning now before we're trying to play catch-up.

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Staying ahead of the competition will maintain superiority in the arena of space. Don't know how many ways I can say the same thing before you understand what I mean. Russia, China, Japan, Europe, India... They all have fairly well-developed space programs. Of those I'd say Russia and possibly China could potentially weaponize their space program, if they haven't already started to. The US needs to ensure they're prepared to counter any measures they put in place. And as other countries expand their influence in space, the US needs to stay ahead of the curve.

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And well get those people as we need them. Getting them now means people just sitting around wasting more money than we need to right now. So why waste money on hiring people to do what we already have people doing when we can hire more as we need more? Or, if they want more personnel, they can hire more for the Air Force where we already do research and keep an eye on space already. That literally works, too...

There is no reason to pretend were not ahead as we are already. We already have trained professionals. Its just called the Air Force instead of the space force. Thats the only difference. Like I said, I dont see how giving them a different name will just magically make us a step further in space superiority... And we have our own space programs, too. Other than NASA, the Air Force does donstuff with space. Just because its not advertised out the ass doesnt mean we dont. We have to as its literally part of our mission... So, we are ahead of the curve. Making a new branch doesnt do anything new or special except a shiny new name... Which does literally nothing...

Why cant we assume that. Most people are dedicated to one job. So, we have enough personnel for those jobs. By taking away space from the Air Force, that takes away bases and personnel. We dont keep all our personnel if we dont have the same responsibilities. Less responsibilities means less personnel. So, either we have an Air Force with X personnel, or an Air Force with .7(x) personnel and a Space Force with .3(x) personnel. So, in the end, we still have x personnel (x being a variable)... So, we already have people trained for doing things with space like watching, monitoring, and stuff like that. They can always train more people to handle anything else they need. Which they still do. You just have to be smart and do well on the ASVAB, and have a good recruiter...

Battle maybe a thing in space sometimes. Probably in 100 years of so. Maybe then well need a Space Force. Until then, its a waste... And we are not behind. Idk why you even think that. If we already have people dedicated to monitoring space, we already have a Space Force in the Air Force. A new name doesnt change anything... They already defend satellites. Why difference does it make if the Air Force or the Space Force defends it? Its make no difference as either is trained to do their job...
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And we need to ensure we stay ahead. There's only so much spying and reconnaissance we can do. We don't know what other countries are doing, which is why we need to plan for the future.

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You keep going back to the same point - that it's not an immediate need - which is exactly the point I'm arguing. That we need to be ahead of our needs here.

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And we can stay ahead. Even without a new branch. Easily. As weve been doing for years now. And why do you think having another branch will make is be able to spy more. If they want more people to spy, you just hire more people. Its that simple. And making a new branch doesnt help us plan for the future when the new branch is doing exactly what another branch did. Its just calling those people something different...

What I dont understand is why you think making a Space Force puts us ahead in any way when we literally already have a Space Force thats called something different. We already as far ahead as were going to get. Making a Space Force does change that. Well be in the same position. Just with less people in both forces...
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Look at the US Air Force for example. They have a huge budget and develop all sorts of cool stuff and keep us safe.

Before they were their own branch of the military we still had an Air Force but it was just a division of the army. Theres no way it would be what it is today if it hadnt been made into its own military branch.

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Mead posted...

Before they were their own branch of the military we still had an Air Force but it was just a division of the army. Theres no way it would be what it is today if it hadnt been made into its own military branch.

Exactly. And over time they've become arguably the most vital part of our military. And over time, the "space force" or whatever the fuck they end up calling it may become the most vital arm of the military.

A department of the Air Force might be a good start but over time space will become the newest frontier. Exploration, colonization, resources - all the things that historically are what we fight over.

They'll need to become they're own department at some point, and I'm all for getting things started sooner, before any potential rivals can get a leg up on the US.

LinkPizza posted...

What I dont understand is why you think making a Space Force puts us ahead in any way when we literally already have a Space Force thats called something different. We already as far ahead as were going to get. Making a Space Force does change that. Well be in the same position. Just with less people in both forces...

Creating a space force literally puts us ahead of rival nations who haven't created a dedicated space force.

Not sure why you think it would diminish the strength of the Air Force. Much like the Marines, they would likely start out as a small, specialized department of the Air Force, and grow over time to fit our needs.

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Bunch of warmongers in this topic.

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