Current Events > So Joker was a really bad movie

(+) Yeah! (+)

I had moderate hopes for it but yeah it's trash.

Care to explain why?

It's always interesting for someone to give like a small paragraph example why. Curious as to yours.

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It's a perfect movie to show us what people like Joker have to go through on a daily basis. If you were going in expecting some super duper action...well you got the wrong movie.

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Quoting a post I made on the movies board here

corneliusmagus posted...

I hated it. Posting my thoughts here that have also been shared on letterboxd.

Joker has totally made my mood drop, I really didn't see that coming. This is a lot to write about a film for me and I'm sure most people who happen to see it will disagree but I had to get all this off my chest.

Joaquin is obviously a good actor who really gives this film far more than it deserves but the character is poorly developed and the writing is all over the place. Mostly it feels empty. The political stuff, riots and Thomas Wayne, feels like it was pasted in from another film.

This is a hollywood depiction of mental illness where the primary point of reference seems to be other hollywood depictions of mental illness and not real life experiences and it suffers for that. There's a moment, some dialogue between Arthur and his psychiatrist that seems like it's saying something about the way society and governments treat the mentally ill but it's just fluff really.

Todd Phillips is someone who claims to have given up making comedies because people are too easily offended these days, moans about the "far left" and is working on a biopic glorifying a racist and all round arsehole (Hulk Hogan). All that makes it hard for me to believe him as someone seriously concerned with vulnerable people.

I've grown to love comic books, I think the character of the Joker can work well and could be something more than just a colourful volatile villain. But I think this is a failure and I'm not sure if even with better more thoughtful writing and directing it could have succeeded. I don't think I enjoyed it for a second but I can see why a lot of people would. It's technically a competently made film but I find it repulsive. As someone who has suffered with mental illness for the majority of my life (I had my first psychotic episode when I was 5 years old, I've spent time in hospital, I've had multiple suicide attempts) and generally feels let down by society and distrusting of the system (the world over) and the way it treats people like me this felt really hostile.

I don't think this film had any real chance of provoking mass shootings or anything like that, it's far more likely to add fuel to the fire of growing suspicion and contempt felt for mentally ill people. I'm sure someone somewhere will tell or has told me or people expressing similar views that "It's just a comic book movie!" but that's just a huge avoidance of social responsibility.

Your opinions are valid and respected.

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Dark_SilverX posted...

It's a perfect movie to show us what people like Joker have to go through on a daily basis. If you were going in expecting some super duper action...well you got the wrong movie.

That's the issue for me. It almost attempts that but it's totally insincere and as a mentally ill person who has struggled through life and to fit in with society I found it hostile and exploitative. It lacks nuance and empathy basically, but I think that's to be expected from the director of The Hangover. I think there's a small chance the concept could have been good in more skilled hands.

I liked Joker well enough, but I think that the movie has a lot of filler and it ultimately ran for too long.

I get the point of the movie's slow pace, and the long, quiet, awkward scenes of Joaquin Phoenix acting. I liked it. But there was too much of it, and by the end of the movie where the good stuff is happening, my enjoyment was tempered by my desire for the movie to end already.

It's a decent enough flick, and a welcome gamble after turds like Batman V Superman and Suicide Squad. But some of the atmospheric shit, like the fridge scene, extended the movie well past its use by date. It needed to be trimmed down a little bit, because there's only so many quiet Arthur Fleck scenes I can stomach before it gets old.

Edit: having read TC's criticism, I understand and respect the points being made and I don't intend to try and supercede them with my own interpretation.

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corneliusmagus posted...

Quoting a post I made on the movies board here

Can you link to the topic on the movies board? Curious as to everyones opinion!

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I liked it.

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MrK3V posted...

Can you link to the topic on the movies board? Curious as to everyones opinion!

It wasn't my topic and there's some weird arguments going on, but here you go https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/228-movies-home-media/78222775

I know my topic title here is a little inflammatory but it's a rare a film provokes me so much and disappoints like this.

Do you have an opinion on Annihilation?

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I agree for the most part. Movie was extremely derivative in not only style but story as well. Sucks because Joaquin Phoenix really did a good job.
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No I like your opinion. I've been really into just reviews in general and peoples opinions. I feel as though people automatically get flamed for spouting an opinion. Wasn't meaning to attack you myself.

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probably the best movie to come from comic books

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Smashingpmkns posted...

I agree for the most part. Movie was extremely derivative in not only style but story as well. Sucks because Joaquin Phoenix really did a good job.

Oh yeah, it copies all these great movies but there didn't really seem to be any reason for it.

Best DC movie in years.

Just don't tie it into the DC cinematic universe. It won't fit.

yes it is

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corneliusmagus posted...

I don't think this film had any real chance of provoking mass shootings or anything like that, it's far more likely to add fuel to the fire of growing suspicion and contempt felt for mentally ill people. I'm sure someone somewhere will tell or has told me or people expressing similar views that "It's just a comic book movie!" but that's just a huge avoidance of social responsibility.

The movie felt quite sympathetic to Joker, portraying him as someone who was constantly dealt bad hands.

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corneliusmagus posted...

That's the issue for me. It almost attempts that but it's totally insincere and as a mentally ill person who has struggled through life and to fit in with society I found it hostile and exploitative. It lacks nuance and empathy basically, but I think that's to be expected from the director of The Hangover. I think there's a small chance the concept could have been good in more skilled hands.

That is the reason why I liked it.

The movie was cruel, but it was real. It shows the reality of what is going on, and how people who have mental illnesses are treated in societies all around the world.

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MrMallard posted...

Do you have an opinion on Annihilation?

It sucked read the book

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Collat posted...

Best DC movie in years.

Just don't tie it into the DC cinematic universe. It won't fit.

Theyll throw him into a vat of chemicals in Joker 2

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These are valid points though I disagree with the notion that they're based on other Hollywood depictions of mental illness.

When I think Hollywood "mental illness" the list is almost entirely all comedies or rom coms at best. This is somewhat of a meta joke in Tropic Thunder when Robert Downey Jr. points out just how ridiculous Ben Stiller's character was.

Of the dramas that come to mind, the two most popular are Forrest Gump which does an absolutely shit job at realistic depictions but it obviously wasn't meant to be that anyway.

The second is "Of Mice and Men" which is fortunate enough to have began life as a novel. This is perhaps one of the most realistic depictions if only for the simple premise that George & Lenny were homeless vagrants & the fact that the lives of people with sufficiently crippling disabilities are often mundane and tragic.

If I were to put the two of those films on the ends of a spectrum, Joker I feel is much closer to Of Mice and Men than it is to Forrest Gump.

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Expecting a troll topic, but you had some great points there

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Dark_SilverX posted...

It's a perfect movie to show us what people like Joker have to go through on a daily basis

and there is the big issue the joker is not nor has he ever been crazy or mentally ill in any fashion

he is just a psychopath even the original killing joke story flat out said no he has no excuse for his actions he is just a monster


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AceMos posted...

and there is the big issue the joker is not nor has he ever been crazy or mentally ill in any fashion

he is just a psychopath even the original killing joke story flat out said no he has no excuse for his actions he is just a monster

The joker is officially "super-sane" which is a made up mental illness by Grant Morrison exclusively for The Joker, so, yes he is mentally ill.

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AceMos posted...

and there is the big issue the joker is not nor has he ever been crazy or mentally ill in any fashion

he is just a psychopath even the original killing joke story flat out said no he has no excuse for his actions he is just a monster

You really dont see the contradiction in what you just said?

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Youre entitled to your opinion, but I couldnt disagree more. When I think of Hollywood mental illness, I think Oscar bait. Joker did not give me that impression at all.

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Deadpool_18 posted...

You really dont see the contradiction in what you just said?

a psychopath is not mentally ill they are fully aware of there actions and know its wrong a psychopath would never get off on the insanity plea

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AceMos posted...

a psychopath is not mentally ill they are fully aware of there actions and know its wrong a psychopath would never get off on the insanity plea

Mens rea culpa has a really high threshold for proof and may not be accepted anyway. You essentially have to prove not only that you don't understand what you were doing but you don't really have control over yourself. Psychopathy fails on both levels but it's still a disability.

A good example is if you sneak up on someone with PTSD and they reflexively turn and stab you or something.

You're never going to get away with "I'd have never killed him if it weren't for my social anxiety disorder."

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corneliusmagus posted...

I've grown to love comic books, I think the character of the Joker can work well and could be something more than just a colourful volatile villain. But I think this is a failure and I'm not sure if even with better more thoughtful writing and directing it could have succeeded. I don't think I enjoyed it for a second but I can see why a lot of people would. It's technically a competently made film but I find it repulsive. As someone who has suffered with mental illness for the majority of my life (I had my first psychotic episode when I was 5 years old, I've spent time in hospital, I've had multiple suicide attempts) and generally feels let down by society and distrusting of the system (the world over) and the way it treats people like me this felt really hostile.

You are more then welcome to your view point and I would not for one second say that you were wrong, for having that view point. I am just giving my take on things. I think the movie was meant to be hostile. Because the world is hostile in general and doubly so to people with mental illness.

I know my issues are nothing compared to what you spoke about going thru. I have issues with written expression. So many times people insult my writing it just hurts so much but I can't do much to fix it. But people love going there. So I think it just points out how the world loves going there.


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Chicken posted...

Theyll throw him into a vat of chemicals in Joker 2

They shouldn't bring him back at all, but probably will.

I can't see this Joker doing battle with Batman. Or existing in the same world as Superman or Wonder Woman.

I really liked it, thought it did a solid job with everything it was trying to do.

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