Poll of the Day > Can a metroidvania work if you start with flight or equivalent?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think there's one where you play as a mermaid or submarine or something, but that's about it
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Yeah, you just have to come up with different locks and keys besides vertical movement distance.
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The Powerpuff Girls: Defenders of Townsville gives you that early, area gates consist of other stuff
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Lokarin posted...

Can a metroidvania work if you start with flight or equivalent?

What you mostly lose with flight is the platforming aspects of the average Metroidvania, so you probably have to focus more on combat mechanics to offset that. Basically, you may have to lean more into bullet hell and shump-style gameplay to compensate for the lack of jumping puzzles.

It doesn't really matter as a means of closing off access to other areas, because there are tons of other ways you can gate stuff off without relying on some sort of double jump ability to reach high areas (walls you need strength or bombs to break down, doors locked that need specific keys, stuff covered in vines or spider webs that need to be burned away, some sort of down-thrust or drill to dig down into buried areas, fire resistance to move through walls of flame or acid resistance to swim through acid pools, etc). You can look to most of the items in Zelda games for inspiration, or start with a setting and work backwards from there (hi-tech settings will tend to have tech-based solutions, etc).
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Lokarin posted...

I think there's one where you play as a mermaid or submarine or something, but that's about it

That would be "Song of the Deep" by Insomnia Games. It actually pulled it off really well. I prefer a style more like Ori or Hollow Knight, but that one was well done regardless.
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reason posted...

t would be "Song of the Deep" by Insomnia Games. It actually pulled it off really well. I prefer a style more like Ori or Hollow Knight, but that one was well done regardless.

I think he's talking about Aquaria.

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Lokarin posted...

Can a metroidvania work if you start with flight or equivalent?

What you mostly lose with flight is the platforming aspects of the average Metroidvania, so you probably have to focus more on combat mechanics to offset that. Basically, you may have to lean more into bullet hell and shump-style gameplay to compensate for the lack of jumping puzzles.

It doesn't really matter as a means of closing off access to other areas, because there are tons of other ways you can gate stuff off without relying on some sort of double jump ability to reach high areas (walls you need strength or bombs to break down, doors locked that need specific keys, stuff covered in vines or spider webs that need to be burned away, some sort of down-thrust or drill to dig down into buried areas, fire resistance to move through walls of flame or acid resistance to swim through acid pools, etc). You can look to most of the items in Zelda games for inspiration, or start with a setting and work backwards from there (hi-tech settings will tend to have tech-based solutions, etc).

This just made me realize that a platforming metroidvania with flight... becomes a top-down zelda-style game only with sideways facing graphics
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You could just make flight limited. Closes off some options and keeps it from becoming a crutch.
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If you limit the altitude or have flying energy, you can pretty easily work it into the format since those aspects could be improved as the game progresses. And you could have ground-based enemies with attacks that target flyers to encourage walking/jumping in some areas.
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GanonsSpirit posted...

reason posted...

t would be "Song of the Deep" by Insomnia Games. It actually pulled it off really well. I prefer a style more like Ori or Hollow Knight, but that one was well done regardless.

I think he's talking about Aquaria.

Aquaria would have been my first thought as well.
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Lokarin posted...

This just made me realize that a platforming metroidvania with flight... becomes a top-down zelda-style game only with sideways facing graphics

Or just Zelda II with flight.
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Yaknow, I've been recommended Aquaria several times and I keep missing it becase when I look it up I keep looking up AquaNox which doesn't look good.

Aside: Wasn't one of the Choplifter games a metroidvania?
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Lokarin posted...

This just made me realize that a platforming metroidvania with flight... becomes a top-down zelda-style game only with sideways facing graphics

Or just Zelda II with flight.

So Kid Icarus?
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

So Kid Icarus?

Did Kid Icarus have areas blocked off by item-triggers? It's been pretty much forever since I played it.

And it sort of blurs together in my head with Battle of Olympus and Magic of Scheherazade, so I can't remember which things are from which games.
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Admittedly my memories of Kid Icarus are also hazy, but I'm nearly positive that at the very least you needed to have all 3 of the sacred treasures to fight Medusa.

Battle of Olympus was definitely item gated, but I recall that also being developed by a lot of the people that worked on Zelda II.

Never played Scheherazad, but might as well throw Faxanadu in the same pile because that had keys blocking off entire maps and spells you needed to get to advance.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

but might as well throw Faxanadu in the same pile because that had keys blocking off entire maps and spells you needed to get to advance.

If you're throwing in Faxanadu, then I'll point out that I always sort of blur that and Astyanax together in my brain.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

but might as well throw Faxanadu in the same pile because that had keys blocking off entire maps and spells you needed to get to advance.

If you're throwing in Faxanadu, then I'll point out that I always sort of blur that and Astyanax together in my brain.

I can't confuse the two only because Faxanadu's music was wonky and jarring in many areas. There's one theme in particular I can still hear every time I think about the game.
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Do you consider Owlboy a Metroidvania? Pretty sure to start with near unlimited flight in that one or get it really quick.
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Wait a sec

How'd we all overlook Demon's Crest?
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Lokarin posted...

I think there's one where you play as a mermaid or submarine or something, but that's about it

Sounds like this could be Aquaria, made by the guy who also made Spelunky (though it's not nearly as good)
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Lokarin posted...

This just made me realize that a platforming metroidvania with flight... becomes a top-down zelda-style game only with sideways facing graphics

If you don't factor gravity into it, yes.
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