Board 8 > GF: We had to cut mons because it was too hard to model

(+) Yeah! (+)

HashtagSEP posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

"Fuck Megas, they make competitive too boring! Fuck Z-moves, they're pointless and make the game too easy!"
*Three hours later*
"wait megas and z-moves are gone how could gamefreak do this you just killed my family *shocked pikachu face*"

Are they from the same specific people?

Yeah

The Pokemon boards are pretty terrible here, though, so it's entirely possible this isn't a fanbase wide thing and the well has just been poisoned

I can assure you that it definitely is a fanbase wide thing
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I've never been less hyped for a mainline Pokemon game.
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The features I always miss the most arent stuff like Contests or Pokeathlon, but quality of life additions like all the features of the Poketch or DexNav
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In my opinion, this animosity hasn't just sprung up overnight. Resentment towards Game Freak and their handling of Pokemon has been growing since X and Y, and this is simply the last straw.

For me it's disappointing that other Nintendo franchises - Mario, Zelda, Smash, Fire Emblem - have brought their A game to Switch, whereas Pokemon is content with more - or rather, less - of the same, while charging more for it.

In addition, removing Pokemon and features, including the main gimmicks of the previous two generations, signals that we shouldn't bother getting attached to anything new from now on. Why should we care about Galar forms since they'll never appear again outside this game? Same goes for Gigantamax, and any of the new Gen 8 Pokemon that have Gigantamax forms, who will presumably be designed with Gigantamax in mind and will be significantly weaker without it. As for returning Pokemon, why would Game Freak bring back, say, Zubat in Gen 9 when it missed out on Sword and Shield, and bringing back a Pokemon who didn't get snapped would take less work? Come Gen 10, it takes even more work to bring Zubat up to current standards and before you know it, Zubat never appears in a game again.

"I can't enjoy X now because the next game might not have it" is an argument I never understood

And then "We'll never see Zubat again" just feels like baseless fear mongering.
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Seeing Vulpix will make me miss white Vulpix.
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no Beedrill, no purchase
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Should I cancel my preorder
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GavsEvans123 posted...

In my opinion, this animosity hasn't just sprung up overnight. Resentment towards Game Freak and their handling of Pokemon has been growing since X and Y, and this is simply the last straw.

This is true in my case
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StealThisSheen posted...

And then "We'll never see Zubat again" just feels like baseless fear mongering.

well as of now, we have around a third of a chance to see any given pokemon in a game with the current numbers.

given we get a new gen once every two years max that could be a literal decade gap(worst case, but feasible) between playing a pokemon game with your favorite pokemon in it.
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Pokmon Platinum came out over 10 years ago. It was the last time the Shinx line was in a regional Pokdex. Now if something popular like Shinx's line doesn't show up for 10 years, what does that mean for less popular Pokmon?
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I mean there are plenty of less popular Pokemon in Sw/Sh so
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Pokmon Platinum came out over 10 years ago. It was the last time the Shinx line was in a regional Pokdex. Now if something popular like Shinx's line doesn't show up for 10 years, what does that mean for less popular Pokmon?

sawk and throh are in the new games so lack of popularity doesnt seem to be a big barrier to entry

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Sad times.

I mean, hell, that's another thing that's been pretty dumb on the Pokemon boards

"You realize you're never going to see half of these Pokemon ever again, right? Gamefreak just killed off all the less popular Pokemon and that's horrible we'll never see them again I can't believe it."
*Three hours later*
"They didn't just select the most popular Pokemon to bring back and ditch all the other garbage?! wtf wtf wtf who even likes Basculin they should get rid of it forever and bring back Metagross! *shocked pikachu face*"
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StealThisSheen posted...

I'm ignoring that you're right and have chosen to be pedantic instead

good point sep
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I literally didn't even reply to you so uh

The other guy tried to raise a point about less popular Pokemon and so far there's no reason whatsoever to suggest less popular Pokemon are suddenly going to just disappear when SwSh is full of less popular Pokemon.
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Don't get me wrong, if the next game only replaces like 100 of the returning Pokemon then by all means now we've got something to work with as far as guessing trends and getting upset or not

But this is the first game with the cut and there's a very wide range of popular to unpopular Pokemon, so any "We may never see X again" is, again, baseless fear mongering.
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I don't think so. If they're going to stick with 400-500 from now on and keep adding about 80, then there's too many Pokmon to guarantee something gets in at least every other game unless you literally rotate everything between in and not in. They haven't felt like Shinx belongs in a regional dex for 10 years now. Stantler hasn't been in a new regional dex for even longer than that. And next Gen they have 80 more Pokmon as competition to fill the same amount of slots. I think it's pretty likely something gets left out for a decade or more.
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i'm pretty stoked for this game. they've made quite a few QOL improvements, some of the new pokes look great, and the battle spot singles meta is going to have changed so much.

haven't been this excited for a pokemon game since gold and silver.

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https://youtu.be/EIgykByoZwI
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If making new Pokemon and adding them to an immense roster is such an ordeal maybe ..... dont churn out a new generation every three years? Id rather wait five or six years for a GREAT pokemon game than a new generation followed by a remake a year and a half later followed by a new generation a year and a half later etc. etc. But Nintendo knows its easy money so why not pump out as many as you can? GF has just been getting lazier and shittier and I'm very sad but cool with not participating in this gen. I'm just hoping for the best for the future
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BetrayedTangy posted...

-Still haven't beaten Sun/Moon because of the opening hours being painfully slow, but everyone and their moms have told me to just play Ultra Sun/Moon they're the best ways to play it.

This is basically the opposite of what I heard. I heard Ultra Sun/Moon were almost worse than S/M with the changes they made.
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McMoogle posted...

If making new Pokemon and adding them to an immense roster is such an ordeal maybe ..... dont churn out a new generation every three years? Id rather wait five or six years for a GREAT pokemon game than a new generation followed by a remake a year and a half later followed by a new generation a year and a half later etc. etc.

This was my immediate thought too.

USUM is only worse if you care about the story. For some reason they just tried to stick the USUM changes into the existing SM story without any care on how they did it, and it causes one character to turn into a total mess because the two versions of them are incompatible with each other. But everything else was an improvement.

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StealThisSheen posted...

"You realize you're never going to see half of these Pokemon ever again, right? Gamefreak just killed off all the less popular Pokemon and that's horrible we'll never see them again I can't believe it."
*Three hours later*
"They didn't just select the most popular Pokemon to bring back and ditch all the other garbage?! wtf wtf wtf who even likes Basculin they should get rid of it forever and bring back Metagross! *shocked pikachu face*"

these are both identical statements
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MawiIe posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

"You realize you're never going to see half of these Pokemon ever again, right? Gamefreak just killed off all the less popular Pokemon and that's horrible we'll never see them again I can't believe it."
*Three hours later*
"They didn't just select the most popular Pokemon to bring back and ditch all the other garbage?! wtf wtf wtf who even likes Basculin they should get rid of it forever and bring back Metagross! *shocked pikachu face*"

these are both identical statements

...No they're not? Might want to read again. In statement one, they're complaining that only popular Pokemon will ever show up again and saying we'll never see the less popular ones again. In the latter, they're complaining that it wasn't all popular Pokemon that returned and that less popular Pokemon returned, too.

Statement 1: "It sucks because only popular Pokemon will ever show up again, you'll never see the rest."
Statement 2: "wtf why did they include less popular Pokemon X instead of super popular Pokemon Y?"
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HashtagSEP posted...

Yeah

The Pokemon boards are pretty terrible here, though, so it's entirely possible this isn't a fanbase wide thing and the well has just been poisoned

So, to be clear, you can point to and highlight specific users that made one statement about hating Megas and Z-moves and then, "three hours later", made that contradictory statement about wanting them back?

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GavsEvans123 posted...

As for returning Pokemon, why would Game Freak bring back, say, Zubat in Gen 9 when it missed out on Sword and Shield, and bringing back a Pokemon who didn't get snapped would take less work? Come Gen 10, it takes even more work to bring Zubat up to current standards and before you know it, Zubat never appears in a game again.

I don't think that argument holds much water. GF already had all of Gen 1 good to go from Let's Go and still cut two thirds of them. If it was about which Pokemon take 'less work', more of them would have made it.
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XIII_rocks posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

Yeah

The Pokemon boards are pretty terrible here, though, so it's entirely possible this isn't a fanbase wide thing and the well has just been poisoned

So, to be clear, you can point to and highlight specific users that made one statement about hating Megas and Z-moves and then, "three hours later", made that contradictory statement about wanting them back?

Yep.

Obviously not literally "three hours later," but it's very easy to remember who said certain things since there are some very vocal people on that board.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

This is the first game on console,

It's not on a console. The switch lite has come out so this is a handheld game.

All according to keikaku.

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SaveEstelle posted...

Metal Gear Solid V utterly disappointed me whilst coming close to perfection for other players theres a big divide there on what I looked for in an MGS game versus what some others seek.

I know I personally was very upset that I couldnt play as Raiden.

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Mewtwo59 posted...

USUM is only worse if you care about the story. For some reason they just tried to stick the USUM changes into the existing SM story without any care on how they did it, and it causes one character to turn into a total mess because the two versions of them are incompatible with each other. But everything else was an improvement.

Yeah this

USUM messed the story up big time but improved on it mechanically by a lot.

The toning down of SOS battles alone makes the game infinitely better for a regular playthrough. Those were super frustrating in regular SM.

Eddv posted...

SaveEstelle posted...

Metal Gear Solid V utterly disappointed me whilst coming close to perfection for other players theres a big divide there on what I looked for in an MGS game versus what some others seek.

I know I personally was very upset that I couldnt play as Raiden.

There's DLC for that.
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HashtagSEP posted...

Yep.

Obviously not literally "three hours later," but it's very easy to remember who said certain things since there are some very vocal people on that board.

Think you could throw out a couple of specific examples? Like let's name some names here. PM if you want.

And if it's like 2 people I really don't think it can be taken as representative of an entire fanbase or even the community of a single board.

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I'm just gonna let you not believe me or whatever because that's getting kinda weird

I know I've seen Hbthebattle on there seeing the same stuff I've seen, though, if you care that much and want to ask him since he's already in this topic
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Well my larger point here is that it's a long-held pet peeve of mine when people "expose" a "double standard" or "hypocrisy" as if it is a) real and b) applies to an entire fanbase, or even an entire section of a fanbase.

Like how many actual specific people are we talking about here that have said they hate megas, then turned around later and said they wanted megas in SwSh? If it's like 2 or 3 people, who honestly gives a shit, and how is that in any way representative of the entire Pokemon fanbase or even just the GameFAQs Sword board? Or even just the anti-Dexit faction of the Sword board? How is it that these two people are enough to make you "stop caring" about the complaints being made? And if it's just general consensus of the board shifting rather than specific people being inconsistent, then that's meaningless - it's just two separate opinions posted by separate people at separate times.

It's a common thing on the internet where bodies of people are lumped into one category, so if the individual people that make up said body have differing opinions then it looks like that entire body of people has changed its mind, doesn't know what it wants, just wants to complain, etc.

Thing A happens <- a couple of fans say "man Thing A sucks, they should change it so it's like Thing B!"
Thing A changes to Thing B <- a couple of ENTIRELY DIFFERENT fans say "man I preferred it when it was Thing A, wtf is this"

Problems here: for one thing, nobody was a hypocrite, or had double standards, or anything like that. It's different people saying these things. And even if they were the same people, it cannot in any way be used to attack the wider fanbase/community because you've only got a very small number of confirmed hypocrites there. And if you're not attacking the fanbase, your point is simply "you can't make everyone happy", which is, like, duh?

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Got some nice assumptions going on there, chief.

EDIT: Like, I already admitted it was likely a specific subset of people "poisoning the well," so to speak, but you've apparently still been trying to bait me this whole time into naming some people so you could launch into that tirade, so, uh... Congratulations, you got to anyway?
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StealThisSheen posted...

...No they're not? Might want to read again. In statement one, they're complaining that only popular Pokemon will ever show up again and saying we'll never see the less popular ones again. In the latter, they're complaining that it wasn't all popular Pokemon that returned and that less popular Pokemon returned, too.

the first is a complaint about scarcity in pokemon and the neglect of their favorites

the second is a complaint about scarcity in pokemon and the neglect of their favorites.
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MawiIe posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

...No they're not? Might want to read again. In statement one, they're complaining that only popular Pokemon will ever show up again and saying we'll never see the less popular ones again. In the latter, they're complaining that it wasn't all popular Pokemon that returned and that less popular Pokemon returned, too.

the first is a complaint about scarcity in pokemon and the neglect of their favorites

the second is a complaint about scarcity in pokemon and the neglect of their favorites.

"It sucks that they're only going to use more popular Pokemon instead of less used Pokemon"

"It sucks that they didn't use more popular Pokemon instead of less used Pokemon"

are pretty at odds with each other

EDIT: Though augh why did I give in and reply to you after specifically saying I wasn't going to since you are absolutely 100% unpleasant to talk to about unreleased games
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yeah if you change the meaning of the sentences so they're at odds at each other, they really are at odds with each other, good point sep.
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MawiIe posted...

yeah if you change the meaning of the sentences so they're at odds at each other, they really are at odds with each other, good point sep.

StealThisSheen posted...

"It sucks that they're only going to use more popular Pokemon instead of less used Pokemon"

"It sucks that they didn't use more popular Pokemon instead of less used Pokemon"

StealThisSheen posted...

Statement 1: "It sucks because only popular Pokemon will ever show up again, you'll never see the rest."
Statement 2: "wtf why did they include less popular Pokemon X instead of super popular Pokemon Y?"

???
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StealThisSheen posted...

EDIT: Though augh why did I give in and reply to you after specifically saying I wasn't going to since you are absolutely 100% unpleasant to talk to about unreleased games

Well I mean, you're you.
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I know I can't help it
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Guy is straight up trolling.
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I'm sure it'll still be a fun RPG that fills all of the monster collecting scratches you could want
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StealThisSheen posted...

EDIT: Though augh why did I give in and reply to you after specifically saying I wasn't going to since you are absolutely 100% unpleasant to talk to about unreleased games

dude notice how you're to only one I'm arguing with despite multiple people not having a new problem with the feature loss? You're the asshole trying to gaslight pokemon fans into thinking this isn't a big deal.
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Where have I tried to gaslight anyone? I said I don't care. I haven't tried to convince a single person something they think is a problem isn't a problem.

Unless you're saying me arguing that trying to say "We'll probably never see stuff like Zubat ever again" is baseless is somehow gaslighting. I never said that actually happening wouldn't be a problem. I said there's literally nothing to base the thought that certain Pokemon are just gone forever on, because there isn't.

You do this every time, though. You accused me of the same stuff leading up to Three Houses coming out because the game was so surely going to be "shit."
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https://i.imgur.com/mPKH6wh.png
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It's hardly baseless to say that we'll never see stuff again when we have multiple Pokmon that haven't been in a regional dex for 6 straight generations, and there's just going to be more competition for the same amount of slots going forward. There's stuff that we aren't going to see again for at least a decade.
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