Board 8 > GF: We had to cut mons because it was too hard to model

(+) Yeah! (+)

HashtagSEP posted...

Snrkiko posted...

the answer to this question will determine if i buy one of these games:

is there any indication if it will still be bogged down by Saturday morning cartoon side characters and incessant talking?

i could not stomach it in sun/moon

You can skip cutscenes

A true cutscene skip or the half measure cutscene skip we got in Let's Go?
---

but that when we get D/P remakes, we literally might get LESS pokemon than the initial game. Literally demakes.

literally demakes makes it seem like your only criteria for the quality of a Pokmon game is raw number of Pokmon included

it's a move of malice for it's hardcore customers.

calling it malice is absurd. Gamefreak isnt making development choices out of a desire to hurt you.

People want to act like we're being negative, but it's not.

youre being pretty negative in the post in which you post that youre not being negative

people are totally allowed to be disappointed about this stuff but so much of the reaction is really over the top
---

Tom Bombadil posted...

Zigzagoon posted...

The Elite Four. The "Championship" is just fighting all 8 gym leaders again.

wtffffff

also for my money Santa is spot on. It makes sense that this would happen at some point but
A) we're moving from handheld to console, shouldn't it be easier to do?
B) they don't seem to have put any of the time or resources they saved back into other aspects of the game
C) they've handled the whole thing kinda sketchily
D) did we have to cut back THIS far? and THAT many of the actually popular ones?

For the first time ever, the league is an actual tournament like in the anime.
---

MoogleKupo141 posted...

literally demakes makes it seem like your only criteria for the quality of a Pokmon game is raw number of Pokmon included

Well considering they literally never add anything interesting to the remakes BESIDES the extra pokemon and maybe a weird feature where you dress up pikachu, I don't feel like that's a hot take? I mean if you like 3-d models that's cool and bully for you, but I would literally just take a 1-1 remake of d/p with the extra pokemon patched in over whatever weird thing they're going to give us with an extra added on plot about how a tall guy made a meteor that split the timeline. Man and if they had pokemon walking behind like hg/ss? Hell yeah I would play the shit out of that game.
---

A) we're moving from handheld to console, shouldn't it be easier to do?

shouldnt what be easier to do? Theoretically its easier to make 3DS quality assets than HD ones, so moving to a console would make that part harder.

but in practice they already made the 3DS ones at Switch quality and just downgraded them for those games so the move to console shouldnt really change anything
---

I wouldnt bother if I were yall. These folks have clearly made their decision and hold firmly to the opinion that the number of Pokemon visible and catchable is not only the primary criteria for a new entrys quality but perhaps the only criteria. And theyre far from alone on that stance, which is deeply unfortunate for them but I cant say I dont know a little bit what its like. Metal Gear Solid V utterly disappointed me whilst coming close to perfection for other players theres a big divide there on what I looked for in an MGS game versus what some others seek.

On a personal level, I find some of the things fans are saying kind of nutty. Im even somewhat familiar with a lot more about Sword and Shield than most at present, and they sound like solid entries to me at minimum. Potentially excellent ones. But one fans Garbador is another fans Espeon. It is what it is.

---

SantaRPidgey posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

"Fuck Megas, they make competitive too boring! Fuck Z-moves, they're pointless and make the game too easy!"
*Three hours later*
"wait megas and z-moves are gone how could gamefreak do this you just killed my family *shocked pikachu face*"

I mean first of all acting like these are the same people is stupid, but it's a legit take since megas and z- moves are stupid not by their nature, but by the fact they are around for one gen and never got any refinement.

They literally are the same people, though.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

Well considering they literally never add anything interesting to the remakes BESIDES the extra pokemon and maybe a weird feature where you dress up pikachu, I don't feel like that's a hot take?

this is an extremely hot take

https://i.imgur.com/hhiQg0y.gif
---

SaveEstelle posted...

These folks have clearly made their decision and hold firmly to the opinion that the number of Pokemon visible and catchable is not only the primary criteria for a new entrys quality but perhaps the only criteria

Our argument is literally "they didn't add anything else"
---

Grimlyn posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

Well considering they literally never add anything interesting to the remakes BESIDES the extra pokemon and maybe a weird feature where you dress up pikachu, I don't feel like that's a hot take?

this is an extremely hot take

https://i.imgur.com/hhiQg0y.gif

oh lmao I literally mentioned it in my post. I completely forget it was a remake.

I was just thinking of OR/AS
---

I gotta wait until after the game is released before I can take a Santapinion seriously anyway because you bitched for months about Three Houses before it came out and then didn't you end up liking it
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

Our argument is literally "they didn't add anything else"

Except they have. Dynamax/Gigantamax; camping/curry; a unique new two-hour postgame episode; sorely-needed quality of life improvements; the Wild Area and all its relative intricacies; a tournament-style presentation and execution; plenty of new Pokemon and new regional forms for older ones; a new dual system for technical machine interplay; raid battles. Theres more.

Its totally fine not to like these things. To claim they dont exist is a bit much.

---

flying with a flute in ORAS was a fantastic feature tbqh

not to mention the obvious feature added since the RSE original: online (and asking if you'd like to use another repel)
---

Grimlyn posted...

flying with a flute in ORAS was a fantastic feature tbqh

not to mention the obvious feature added since the RSE original: online (and asking if you'd like to use another repel)

I love flying in those games!

---

HashtagSEP posted...

I gotta wait until after the game is released before I can take a Santapinion seriously anyway because you bitched for months about Three Houses before it came out and then didn't you end up liking it

Yeah, but my bitching wasn't on the the general laziness of the game. It was about poor design choices (many of which were fixed between development and release) And three houses turned out to be my second least favorite fire emblem, but I still acknowledge it was a good game with a lot of effort put into it and I'm happy it did so well. It was actually the opposite of this situation, since I was upset that IS was putting a lot of resources into making a game thats not really for me of my favorite series, whereas Game Freak is putting no resources into making a game for anyone. They're jut trying to shave off as much of the game as they can to make more profits, just like EA, Activision/Blizzard killed some great series, game freak is going the same direction.

I acknowledge that I complain about everything when a new game comes out, and even if sword and shield had a feature where gardevoir comes out to the tv and sucked my dick I'd probably still find things to complain about.
---

Grimlyn posted...

flying with a flute in ORAS was a fantastic feature tbqh

it was cool

but would it be just as cool if there wasn't any pokemon not from the original RSE in it?
---

Uh, yeah

---

SaveEstelle posted...

Dynamax/Gigantamax; camping/curry; a unique new two-hour postgame episode

Mega/z moves, Pokemon Amie, all the past games had postgame.

you can't replace a feature with something nearly identical and call it a new feature.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

literally demakes makes it seem like your only criteria for the quality of a Pokmon game is raw number of Pokmon included

Well considering they literally never add anything interesting to the remakes BESIDES the extra pokemon and maybe a weird feature where you dress up pikachu, I don't feel like that's a hot take? I mean if you like 3-d models that's cool and bully for you, but I would literally just take a 1-1 remake of d/p with the extra pokemon patched in over whatever weird thing they're going to give us with an extra added on plot about how a tall guy made a meteor that split the timeline. Man and if they had pokemon walking behind like hg/ss? Hell yeah I would play the shit out of that game.

extra Pokmon was never what interested me about the remakes, it was mostly about upgrading the old games to the modern gameplay. HG/SS were great to me because it was G/S with abilities and physical/special split and a PC that didnt suck.

other than Fairy type, there hasnt been much change in the gameplay since gen 4 , so remakes of those are less exciting to me, but the ability to trade in post-gen 4 Pokmon would be total non-factor in my interest

ooo maybe they could do Sinnoh forms of stuff in a remake. That would be something.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

Mega/z moves, Pokemon Amie, all the past games had postgame.

you can't replace a feature with something nearly identical and call it a new feature.

I dont consider any of those things synonymous enough with clearly different things not to call them new features.

---

SantaRPidgey posted...

but would it be just as cool if there wasn't any pokemon not from the original RSE in it?

absolutely! I already had a bunch of Palkais and Terrakions in my bank so their addition didn't really mean much to me

I generally like to make up teams of pokemon native to the regions of the game I'm playing either way so
---

Grimlyn posted...

absolutely! I already had a bunch of Palkais and Terrakions in my bank so their addition didn't really mean much to me

I generally like to make up teams of pokemon native to the regions of the game I'm playing either way so

Same here.

Id love to see a game like Black/White again, where over the course of the main adventure youre confined to new Pokmon. Theyd need to roughly double the output of new Pokmon for a generation again, of course; BW added 162.

But folks complained so it aint happening again.

---

MoogleKupo141 posted...

ooo maybe they could do Sinnoh forms of stuff in a remake. That would be something.

I'll be surprised if they don't. And while I don't necessarily expect, I think adding more cross-gen evolutions is a likely possibility, since that is one of the things Gen IV is most known for.

I also kinda suspect the post-game island will be turned into another giant Wild Area. I'm sure they're going to want to incorporate one into the game, and that feels like the most natural way to include one to me. I see other people suggest Mt Coronet or the underground being large Wild Areas, but those seem less appealing to me, I dunno.
---

"A two hour postgame is a new feature" is quite a take.
---

Brace yourselves for the Great Marsh

NBIceman posted...

"A two hour postgame is a new feature" is quite a take.

Maybe feature is a strong word for it, but its going to tell a story that prior games have not told (obviously) and play differently than postgame episodes in prior games to some extent or another (obviously) that as someone who is chiefly interested in the adventure aspect of Pokmon games it is absolutely worth mentioning.

---

SaveEstelle posted...

I dont consider any of those things synonymous enough with clearly different things not to call them new features.

what exactly is different about the camp in regards to amie that you don't consider them exactly the same.

Oh also, this will be the most expensive pokemon game to date, and they will charge you for features that have historically been free like trading. Put that on my "this is a shitty company" list too
---

mnkboy907 posted...

For the first time ever, the league is an actual tournament like in the anime.

oh hey that's kinda cool actually

---

SaveEstelle posted...

Maybe feature is a strong word for it, but its going to tell a story that prior games have not told (obviously) and play differently than postgame episodes in prior games to some extent or another (obviously) that as someone who is chiefly interested in the adventure aspect of Pokmon games it is absolutely worth mentioning.

two hours is the time it takes to get through the tutorial in sun and moon
---

also since I am posting more in defence of SwSh so far in here I feel the need to point the game can still be lacking in other aspects, it's just that the national dex controversy is like the bottom of my concerns

for me personally just the fact of having a mainline tv-console Pokemon has me suckered into a purchase even if I'm not entirely sold on the content, so I wouldn't at all blame people for not being energized to jump into it day 1

really though since I know I'm a purchase I haven't bothered to really follow the updates much (although I am hyped to customize a rad QT trainer)
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

two hours is the time it takes to get through the tutorial in sun and moon

Sucks for Sun and Moon, then!

---

SaveEstelle posted...

These folks have clearly made their decision and hold firmly to the opinion that the number of Pokemon visible and catchable is not only the primary criteria for a new entrys quality but perhaps the only criteria.

Pokemon variety is honestly a huge criteria for me. I want different pokemon around every corner, not the equivalent of Rattatas and Zubats everywhere. That matters a lot more to me than giant pokemon or the postgame plot.

Granted, I'm not up in arms about the limited dex because it's not about the raw number of pokemon, it's about their in-game use. You could have a 400-pokemon game with a great spread, or a full pokedex game that severely underutilizes them. But yeah I don't think it's silly to think the number of pokemon visible and catchable is a big deal.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

what exactly is different about the camp in regards to amie that you don't consider them exactly the same.

Your whole team is present and you can see your Pokemon interacting. Also if you set up camp in the Wild Area, other players can come visit your camp and help you make curry. It's a big upgrade over Amie/Refresh.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

they will charge you for features that have historically been free like trading

wait what
---

I think what I hate the most is we're morethan likely getting the rest of the dex in future Gen 8 games.

They've been getting worse and worse about their first game of the generation being unfinished and then releasing a superior version two years later amd charging full price for it. It's a horrible move that screws over fans who bought the originals. Granted this has been a tactic from the very beginning, but I feel like now it's at a point they're using it to make more $$$

---

Gatarix posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

they will charge you for features that have historically been free like trading

wait what

It's still free for wireless trading/battling, but all online interactions require NSO.
---

Gatarix posted...

Pokemon variety is honestly a huge criteria for me. I want different pokemon around every corner, not the equivalent of Rattatas and Zubats everywhere. That matters a lot more to me than giant pokemon or the postgame plot.

Granted, I'm not up in arms about the limited dex because it's not about the raw number of pokemon, it's about their in-game use. You could have a 400-pokemon game with a great spread, or a full pokedex game that severely underutilizes them. But yeah I don't think it's silly to think the number of pokemon visible and catchable is a big deal.

The postgame plot shtick is definitely something I'm in the minority for in general among the fandom. Most fans would clearly prefer something else, something "bigger." And, well, whynotboth.jpg. But it is important to me personally, so I'm glad it exists again, because I didn't really consider that a safe bet.

And for what it's worth, I think Zubat isn't in Sword and Shield. Which no matter where you stand on these games has to be a net win.

---

mnkboy907 posted...

Your whole team is present and you can see your Pokemon interacting. Also if you set up camp in the Wild Area, other players can come visit your camp and help you make curry. It's a big upgrade over Amie/Refresh.

Thanks for answering him on this one. Totally missed the inquiry.

---

BetrayedTangy posted...

I think what I hate the most is we're morethan likely getting the rest of the dex in future Gen 8 games.

They've been getting worse and worse about their first game of the generation being unfinished and then releasing a superior version two years later amd charging full price for it. It's a horrible move that screws over fans who bought the originals. Granted this has been a tactic from the very beginning, but I feel like now it's at a point they're using it to make more $$$

I mean you're very wrong, B/W 2 was a completely different game with a new plot, x/y didn't even have one and Us/um was the exact same game as far as features go (unless you're mad they didn't have mantine surfing in the first one)
---

SaveEstelle posted...

And for what it's worth, I think Zubat isn't in Sword and Shield. Which no matter where you stand on these games has to be a net win.

Zubat was always my brother's best friend's favourite pokemon growing up :\

they once made a board game and zubat was his piece
---

Grimlyn posted...

SaveEstelle posted...

And for what it's worth, I think Zubat isn't in Sword and Shield. Which no matter where you stand on these games has to be a net win.

Zubat was always my brother's best friend's favourite pokemon growing up :\

they once made a board game and zubat was his piece

Woobats and Noibats are both better anyway tbqh.
---

Grimlyn posted...

Zubat was always my brother's best friend's favourite pokemon growing up :\

they once made a board game and zubat was his piece

dammit I knew I'd regret typing that somehow

---

Zubat is cute but overused and dammit quit using Confuse Ray
Golbat is gross
Crobat is the man
---

I haven't really followed much about what's been added/subtracted outside of the cut pokemon thing, but while the cut pokemon doesn't really bother that much, i totally get the idea that it's not so much them cutting the pokemon necessarily, it's the reasons they're giving for doing such that don't really seem to be up to snuff. Like sure, there will be people who would be upset over the cut mons regardless of what else was in the game, you'll find that with any feature. But when you're flat out misleading/lying, intentionally or otherwise, in the reasons why you aren't implementing a feature, that's something that everyone can get behind and outrage over, even if the feature isn't important to them personally.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

I mean you're very wrong, B/W 2 was a completely different game with a new plot, x/y didn't even have one and Us/um was the exact same game as far as features go (unless you're mad they didn't have mantine surfing in the first one)

-The original had Red/Green in Japan then came out with the superior Blue which is what we got as Red/Blue in the west

-Still haven't played GSC so I'm not sure on how much better Crystal was on the other two

-Emerald was far superior to Ruby/Sapphire

-Diamond and Pearl were horrible Pokemon games everything about it moves at a snail's pace and a ton of the new Pokemon weren't even obtainable until Platinum. Which is so much better that D/P are borderline unplayable

-You're absolutely right on Gen 5 and that's the exception

-X/Y's even worse as a result, because there is no Z. Despite being a remake ORAS had a ton of content and ended up easily being the definitive Gen VI game.

-Still haven't beaten Sun/Moon because of the opening hours being painfully slow, but everyone and their moms have told me to just play Ultra Sun/Moon they're the best ways to play it.

---

HashtagSEP posted...

"Fuck Megas, they make competitive too boring! Fuck Z-moves, they're pointless and make the game too easy!"
*Three hours later*
"wait megas and z-moves are gone how could gamefreak do this you just killed my family *shocked pikachu face*"

Are they from the same specific people?

---

XIII_rocks posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

"Fuck Megas, they make competitive too boring! Fuck Z-moves, they're pointless and make the game too easy!"
*Three hours later*
"wait megas and z-moves are gone how could gamefreak do this you just killed my family *shocked pikachu face*"

Are they from the same specific people?

Yeah

The Pokemon boards are pretty terrible here, though, so it's entirely possible this isn't a fanbase wide thing and the well has just been poisoned
---

BetrayedTangy posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

I mean you're very wrong, B/W 2 was a completely different game with a new plot, x/y didn't even have one and Us/um was the exact same game as far as features go (unless you're mad they didn't have mantine surfing in the first one)

-The original had Red/Green in Japan then came out with the superior Blue which is what we got as Red/Blue in the west

-Still haven't played GSC so I'm not sure on how much better Crystal was on the other two

-Emerald was far superior to Ruby/Sapphire

-Diamond and Pearl were horrible Pokemon games everything about it moves at a snail's pace and a ton of the new Pokemon weren't even obtainable until Platinum. Which is so much better that D/P are borderline unplayable

-You're absolutely right on Gen 5 and that's the exception

-X/Y's even worse as a result, because there is no Z. Despite being a remake ORAS had a ton of content and ended up easily being the definitive Gen VI game.

-Still haven't beaten Sun/Moon because of the opening hours being painfully slow, but everyone and their moms have told me to just play Ultra Sun/Moon they're the best ways to play it.

For what it's worth, Sword/Shield have multiple elements to suggest they've been developed with the intent of being the only Galar games.
---

I'll believe that when I see it. The only time we didn't get a third version was when they wanted to get a new generation out for the 20th anniversary of the series.
---

Mewtwo59 posted...

I'll believe that when I see it. The only time we didn't get a third version was when they wanted to get a new generation out for the 20th anniversary of the series.

Well sure it could still happen, but even if that is the case, it at least means there was more stuff included in the first versions that usually isn't.
---