Current Events > My biggest problem with The Last Jedi. *major spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

If Luke was going to die anyway, why not just show up on the battlefield in person and wreck Kylo's army? Why waste such a good character on such a cheap scene? That scene on the battlefield had so much potential to be top cinema.

I agree. That moment really did feel less for that.
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Why aren't there any aliens in the new movies? That's my gripe

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Because then he would be just a man who clearly died on the battlefield.
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He didn't have a way to physically get there.
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It was lame as fuck that he actually died after that. It would have been way cooler if he just passed out from exhaustion and then came back later at full strength to fight Kylo Ren one on one. Then he could put Kylo over. Instead, he dies from projecting himself. He didn't put anyone over.
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__aCEr__ posted...

He didn't have a way to physically get there.

This and his intention was to buy the rebellion time to escape (despite the fact that they just sat there and watched him fight Kylo Ren instead of doing so).

Yeah okay like they couldn't have given him a way to get there. That's not a good reason.

That's the opposite of what Star Wars is about.
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Orlando_Jordan posted...

It was lame as fuck that he actually died after that. It would have been way cooler if he just passed out from exhaustion and then came back later at full strength to fight Kylo Ren one on one. Then he could put Kylo over. Instead, he dies from projecting himself. He didn't put anyone over.

Yeah especially since there's the death fakeout, then "surprise bitch" then he falls over, then gets back up and recovers himself... THEN dies.

Lmao what a rollercoaster.

I wouldn't have wanted him to tear shit up on the battlefield, but I would've changed it so instead of the AT-ATs stopping their fire, Luke twists their cannons out of shape. Give him one feat that becomes more impressive after the twist, not less.

And then instead of dying he just chooses to shed his physical form and enters the force voluntarily.
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Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't randomly come back and crush giant ships with their mind on a huge battlefield. Like that's The Force Unleashed level of ridiculousness.

The act of Luke tricking everyone with a ghost is clever. It's the ultimate Jedi move. He was completely pacifist and reinvigorated the rebellion while making Kylo Ren look like a fool. It's the logical ending of his character arc.

I think the only mistake was that he died immediately afterwards. I think they should have been clearer on what becoming one with the Force means and why he does it. Could have tied into why Obi-Wan did it too.
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My biggest problem with The Last Jedi

It was a filler episode
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"The movie should have been more basic"
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The how and why a random schmuck like Rian Johnson got work in Hollywood will always be a mystery to me.
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Darmik posted...

Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't randomly come back and crush giant ships with their mind on a huge battlefield. Like that's The Force Unleashed level of ridiculousness.

The act of Luke tricking everyone with a ghost is clever. It's the ultimate Jedi move. He was completely pacifist and reinvigorated the rebellion while making Kylo Ren look like a fool. It's the logical ending of his character arc.

I think the only mistake was that he died immediately afterwards. I think they should have been clearer on what becoming one with the Force means and why he does it. Could have tied into why Obi-Wan did it too.

I think I agree with you, but I'm not sure if you agree with me.
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Honestly him showing up as a ghost rather than just ending with a stupid prequel-esque laser fight was clearly the better of the two options if there had to be a confrontation.
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marthsheretoo posted...

And then instead of dying he just chooses to shed his physical form and enters the force voluntarily.

That's probably what Rise of Skywalker's gonna retcon it to. It's another original trilogy throwback, this time to Obi-Wan!

But yeah, up until the point that he "died" in TLJ I actually really liked that approach of projecting himself to trick Kylo and throwing out cool tricks to make him seem god-like.
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marthsheretoo posted...

I think I agree with you, but I'm not sure if you agree with me.

I agree with you.

Vader choked out a guy over a video intercom. Don't see why a force projected Luke wouldn't be able to crush some cannons to stop them from firing. It's still a pacifist move that shows off his power.
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It felt like a waste. Luke could have died taking on the entire First Order, which would tie into his "You think one guy with a laser sword can just come in and take them all out?"

It would have reinforced why the Resistance was important most of all, and it could have been used as a way to make Kylo Ren a credible threat if he managed to take Luke down or something. Hell, Luke could have went down and tried to redeem Kylo, and once he realized he couldn't he could have just let him strike him down to parallel Kenobi's sacrifice.

Instead, you get pretty much the exact same thing with no pay off. Okay, he died doing a ghost move. Should or does anyone actually know this or care in the story? Maybe Rey could figure it out, but as far as those 12 resistance members think Luke just went down and held them off while they escaped.
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KillerSlaw posted...

It felt like a waste. Luke could have died taking on the entire First Order, which would tie into his "You think one guy with a laser sword can just come in and take them all out?"

It would have reinforced why the Resistance was important most of all, and it could have been used as a way to make Kylo Ren a credible threat if he managed to take Luke down or something.

Instead, you get pretty much the exact same thing with no pay off. Okay, he died doing a ghost move. Should or does anyone actually know this or care in the story? Maybe Rey could figure it out, but as far as those 12 resistance members think Luke just went down and held them off while they escaped.

They saw him withstand a hail of blaster fire and remain standing. That story spreads throughout the galaxy. Luke is a mysterious legend.

A whole lot of people in the First Order saw it with their own eyes too. The entire point is that people care because Luke did something unexplainable and unbelievable to most people.
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PrideOfLion posted...

We see the kids at the end of the movie talking about it

It's been a while, but I don't remember them ever talking about Luke being a ghost. It was more like "he held off the first order"

Which is what I'm saying. His Force feat *should* be lost on pretty much everyone. I would give a pass with Rey and *maybe* Chewie since they would have a good idea he never left the planet. But everyone else? They just saw Luke go out there and never return.

I guess it's not so much pointless but just...convoluted? I don't know. It just seemed like a weird way to kill him I guess.
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I just think it was lame that he died from a Skype call. >_>

What he did was fine. But the movie sold it in the lamest way possible.
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AlisLandale posted...

I just think it was lame that he died from a Skype call. >_>

What he did was fine. But the movie sold it in the lamest way possible.

Yeah if you reduce it to something stupid it sucks
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The people of the First Order are mostly just regular people too. There were what hundreds of them that saw it?

They never found a body.

Luke was gone for a long time, randomly came back, took on an entire army and stood there. Made Kylo Ren look like an idiot and disappeared. That is larger than life stuff. Is he still out there? Did he come back from the dead? Is the Force against the First Order and Kylo? How powerful is Luke?

It's also like the day after Snoke dies from mysterious circumstances.

The urban legend of Luke would be pretty crazy.
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OnWingsOfMisery posted...

If Luke was going to die anyway, why not just show up on the battlefield in person and wreck Kylo's army? Why waste such a good character on such a cheap scene? That scene on the battlefield had so much potential to be top cinema.

Coz the showrunners actually hate the old characters
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I think the prequels and the EU have gone way too far in romanticizing the idea of the "Asskicking Jedi Master." The entire premise of Luke's struggle in the OT was learning to use the force in a responsible, peaceful manner while avoiding a fall to the dark side.

Tell me which one seems more like the actions of a Jedi Master:

1.) Air-dropping into an army of soldiers to slice and dice them while blowing up ~8 massive armored walkers, killing hundreds (if not thousands) in the process.

2.) Using the force to create a convincing distraction that buys enough time for the Jedi's allies to escape without any casualties at all.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Tell me which one seems more like the actions of a Jedi Master:

1.) Air-dropping into an army of soldiers to slice and dice them while blowing up ~8 massive armored walkers, killing hundreds (if not thousands) in the process.

2.) Using the force to create a convincing distraction that buys enough time for the Jedi's allies to escape without any casualties at all.

Except Luke was so powerful that he could've taken them out in a show of glory and gone down fighting them while the rest escaped

OnWingsOfMisery posted...

Except Luke was so powerful that he could've taken them out in a show of glory and gone down fighting them while the rest escaped

Tell me which one is more like a Jedi Master. You didn't answer.
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Oh look here come the copy/paste complaints from every topic ever about the last jedi

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__aCEr__ posted...

He didn't have a way to physically get there.

But they could have easily written him deciding to go a few minutes earlier.

Fact is, they wanted him to Force project himself across the galaxy because it's badass, which it is. The movie wasn't great, but that scene was an exception.
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marthsheretoo posted...

And then instead of dying he just chooses to shed his physical form and enters the force voluntarily.

In fairness, this could very well have been what happened. I mean, why does Vader have a body in episode 6 when Obi-wan in 4 doesn't and Luke in 8 also doesn't?

But also, it really trivializes 7 for him to do either while only buying the rebels or resistance or whatever like three minutes of time instead of actually messing stuff up like the baddies feared he would.
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DarthDemented posted...

Oh look here come the copy/paste complaints from every topic ever about the last jedi

There's nothing at all unoriginal about my Ruin Johnson joke.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Tell me which one is more like a Jedi Master. You didn't answer.

Given the Jedi actions in the Clone Wars, the first one.

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The Clone Wars Jedi raised up a clone army and followed Palpatine who wiped them out. They kinda sucked.

Even then they primarily fought robots and weird insect people who don't deserve to live I guess.
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jumi posted...

Given the Jedi actions in the Clone Wars, the first one.

You're exactly right, based on the prequels, hence the problem. In the original trilogy, a Jedi would opt for the second choice. Obi-wan surrendered to Vader in order to give Luke 'permission' to leave without him. Luke threw his lightsaber aside rather than executing Vader in anger. The cave showed Luke his destiny, were he to continue to act with aggression and spite rather than patience and understanding. It is a detail worth noting that, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke opens his lightsaber before Vader does. He initiates the conflict, and that is proof that he wasn't ready.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

jumi posted...

Given the Jedi actions in the Clone Wars, the first one.

You're exactly right, based on the prequels, hence the problem. In the original trilogy, a Jedi would opt for the second choice. Obi-wan surrendered to Vader in order to give Luke 'permission' to leave without him. Luke threw his lightsaber aside rather than executing Vader in anger. The cave showed Luke his destiny, were he to continue to act with aggression and spite rather than patience and understanding. It is a detail worth noting that, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke opens his lightsaber before Vader does. He initiates the conflict, and that is proof that he wasn't ready.

Actually, I think it's an interesting detail that Obi-wan might have changed his views on what a Jedi Master is after seeing what has become of the old ways. The way Luke approached the situation in TLJ shows he is simply following Obi-wan's teachings, rather than how things were back then.
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The scene gave away that it was fake though. Earlier, we see Luke's lightsaber get ripped in half. But during the fight, he is using it just fine. Not sure why he wasn't using the green one in the illusion.
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008Zulu posted...

The scene gave away that it was fake though. Earlier, we see Luke's lightsaber get ripped in half. But during the fight, he is using it just fine. Not sure why he wasn't using the green one in the illusion.

Also he's clearly the younger Luke we saw in the flashback.
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jumi posted...

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Tell me which one is more like a Jedi Master. You didn't answer.

Given the Jedi actions in the Clone Wars, the first one.

And that is exactly why the Jedi in the Clone Wars era fell right into the trap that plunged the galaxy into darkness.

The Jedi being badass war heroes/generals to defend the society they held precious was what destroyed the Order. Their fear led them to take on the clone army and initiate the war. It's what forced the council to put Anakin on the Council even though he clearly had not mastered inner peace (and was therefore not named master); they felt obligated to acknowledge his glory and power in the war effort. And in the end it greatly clouded their vision.
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__aCEr__ posted...

008Zulu posted...

The scene gave away that it was fake though. Earlier, we see Luke's lightsaber get ripped in half. But during the fight, he is using it just fine. Not sure why he wasn't using the green one in the illusion.

Also he's clearly the younger Luke we saw in the flashback.

And--I haven't rewatched it to verify but--I hear his footprints don't turn red.
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DevsBro posted...

And--I haven't rewatched it to verify but--I hear his footprints don't turn red.

This is true. There are multiple signs ahead of the reveal that he's not physically there.
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I feel like every complaint about Luke boils down to him not being a space ninja badass God

Malfunction posted...

I feel like every complaint about Luke boils down to him not being a space ninja badass God

No.

Personally, it has to do with him being a blithering idiot who is inconsistently written.

(This observation has nothing to do with the final Force projection scene which is the focus of this topic, which, honestly, I didn't have much problems with. Frankly, if he had gone 'space ninja badass God' and whooped the First Order armies by himself instead, I would've been even more pissed off.)
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Malfunction posted...

I feel like every complaint about Luke boils down to him not being a space ninja badass God

It's kinda valid considering there was a whole movie dedicated to the idea that he was going to single-handedly wreck the FO.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7s8grm2mHM" data-time="&start=100
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DevsBro posted...

It's kinda valid considering there was a whole movie dedicated to the idea that he was going to single-handedly wreck the FO.

Luke himself mocks that idea near the beginning. It's less about "Luke has a high enough power level to solo the first order" and more about "The first order has Snoke and Kylo Ren, so the resistance needs their own champion to match them."
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By the time Luke finally made the decision to fight, there was no time to get there physically. So he did what he could do, despite the cost.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

DevsBro posted...

It's kinda valid considering there was a whole movie dedicated to the idea that he was going to single-handedly wreck the FO.

Luke himself mocks that idea near the beginning. It's less about "Luke has a high enough power level to solo the first order" and more about "The first order has Snoke and Kylo Ren, so the resistance needs their own champion to match them."

You don't see how this is not what 7 established?
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I don't know why anyone posts a Last Jedi YT commentary video and expects anyone to watch it.

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